Quoted: This is NOTHING like the border patrol (or other law enforcement agencies), who can only use their weapons in defense of their lives or the loves of another.   IN addition, those "10 guys and a dinghy" likely have orders to employ deadly force in defense of that port.  What strictly law enforcement agency can use deadly force unless in defense of a human life (maybe DOE, for nuke sites)? Leave it to a Zoomie to feel a need to disparage the Coast Guard.

Funny, the DHS gives the exact same "rank" and "position" to the USCG Commandant as to the head of the Border Patrol.  



My point, obviously missed by the butthurt Coasties, is that the USAF, USN, USA, and USMC are actively involved every single day in killing fawking insurgents, the USCG IS NOT.  End of story.  

The reason this is a touchy subject is the Coast Guard knows they're wrong.  Coast Guard is NOT military unless they are on a DOD mission.  They have DHS, DOT, and DOD missions on occassion.

As stated in many points made above, the coast guard as a whole is not the military.  They couldn't patrol the borders if they were.

Quoted: Quoted: This is NOTHING like the border patrol (or other law enforcement agencies), who can only use their weapons in defense of their lives or the loves of another.   IN addition, those "10 guys and a dinghy" likely have orders to employ deadly force in defense of that port.  What strictly law enforcement agency can use deadly force unless in defense of a human life (maybe DOE, for nuke sites)? Leave it to a Zoomie to feel a need to disparage the Coast Guard. Funny, the DHS gives the exact same "rank" and "position" to the USCG Commandant as to the head of the Border Patrol.   img156.imageshack.us/img156/934/dhs2dd.jpg My point, obviously missed by the butthurt Coasties, is that the USAF, USN, USA, and USMC are actively involved every single day in killing fawking insurgents, the USCG IS NOT.  End of story.

Neither your chart, nor your last point are relevent to the discussion at hand.

The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State hold the same "rank" and "position" relative to the President.  Such says NOTHING about their mission, though.  Heck, Aafes has a 2-star commander.  So does every US Army combat division.  Does that mean Aafes is a combat division?

There are entire Army units currently in the US, and not deployed.  By your ridiculous logic, they only become "military" when they are deployed and "killing insurgents."  No - the truth is - as you yourself pointed out, and what I had to point out to you I had already said, is that armed units that are prepared to conduct offensive operations if necessary = military.

The Coast Guard in Iraq is being used in a military, not law enforcement, capacity.   They adhere to military rules for the use of force.  This is not even up for debate.

In a traditional Coast Guard role, the Coast Guard can and will engage a ship identified as an enemy vessel in defense of US borders.  In contrast, under no circumstances - even in wartime - can the Border Patrol EVER engage even uniformed enemy soldiers unless defending a life - to do so would make them combatives under the Geneva Conventions - a status that the Coasties in Iraq already have.  If you cannot see that crucial difference this discussion us useless.

After seeing USCG folks wearing legit SEAL Tridents and doing boardings with there LE dets I dont care who they work for as long as they are on my side.

From the USCG website-
"The United States Coast Guard is a military, multimission, maritime service within the Department of Homeland Security and one of the nation's five armed services."

"National Defense: Defend the nation as one of the five U.S. armed services. Enhance regional stability in support of the National Security Strategy, utilizing the Coast Guard’s unique and relevant maritime capabilities."

"National Security

For more than 210 years, the Coast Guard has served the nation as one of the five armed forces. Throughout its distinguished history, the Coast Guard has enjoyed a unique relationship with the Navy. By statute, the Coast Guard is an armed force, operating in the joint arena at any time and functioning as a specialized service under the Navy in time of war or when directed by the President. It also has command responsibilities for the U.S. Maritime Defense Zone, countering potential threats to American's coasts, ports, and inland waterways through numerous port-security, harbor-defense, and coastal-warfare operations and exercises."

As for them not engaging in offensive ops, that's BS.

Many of the landing craft in WWII were manned by the USCG.  You don't get much more offensive than that.  

During OIF there were two oil rigs that needed to be taken in order to take the port.  A US Army (YES ARMY!) tugboat twice navigated through the minefield at night to transport boarding parties to each oil rig.  One boarding party was USCG, the other USMC.  Taking a key objective offensively during an amphibious operation is about as offensive as you can get (even if it was by Army tugboat)

Plainly, the USCG is a military service by statute, so that's pretty much all there is to that no matter what they do, or who they work for.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is NOTHING like the border patrol (or other law enforcement agencies), who can only use their weapons in defense of their lives or the loves of another.   IN addition, those "10 guys and a dinghy" likely have orders to employ deadly force in defense of that port.  What strictly law enforcement agency can use deadly force unless in defense of a human life (maybe DOE, for nuke sites)? Leave it to a Zoomie to feel a need to disparage the Coast Guard. Funny, the DHS gives the exact same "rank" and "position" to the USCG Commandant as to the head of the Border Patrol.   img156.imageshack.us/img156/934/dhs2dd.jpg My point, obviously missed by the butthurt Coasties, is that the USAF, USN, USA, and USMC are actively involved every single day in killing fawking insurgents, the USCG IS NOT.  End of story.   Neither your chart, nor your last point are relevent to the discussion at hand. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State hold the same "rank" and "position" relative to the President.  Such says NOTHING about their mission, though.  Heck, Aafes has a 2-star commander.  So does every US Army combat division.  Does that mean Aafes is a combat division? There are entire Army units currently in the US, and not deployed.  By your ridiculous logic, they only become "military" when they are deployed and "killing insurgents."  No - the truth is - as you yourself pointed out, and what I had to point out to you I had already said, is that armed units that are prepared to conduct offensive operations if necessary = military. The Coast Guard in Iraq is being used in a military, not law enforcement, capacity.   They adhere to military rules for the use of force.  This is not even up for debate. In a traditional Coast Guard role, the Coast Guard can and will engage a ship identified as an enemy vessel in defense of US borders.  In contrast, under no circumstances - even in wartime - can the Border Patrol EVER engage even uniformed enemy soldiers unless defending a life - to do so would make them combatives under the Geneva Conventions - a status that the Coasties in Iraq already have.  If you cannot see that crucial difference this discussion us useless.

Posse Comitatus Act Source: G-OPL "POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

Thanks for avoiding Posse Comitatus by being non military.  

Quoted: Quoted: SSDG: Same Shit, Different Goon? Sorry....Someone ring?

I was waiting for that.......  

Apparently NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) is a branch of the military....

Quoted: Thanks for avoiding Posse Comitatus by being non military.

I never said they did not do law enforcement.  I said they also did military.

I'm not avoiding anything.  Heck, the National Guard gets around Posse Commitatus by being under the control of the Governor.  Do you recall the distinction uised as recently as Katrina?   They are still an armed force / MILITARY organization when under the control of the DoD - as is the Coast Guard.  What part of multi-mission is getting past you?

I could present better arguments to "prove" the AF is not military.  It still wouldn't "prove" anything.

Quoted: Apparently NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) is a branch of the military....

I hereby officially declare reading comprehension a lost art.