Should doctors ask about guns? - Page 2

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Posted: 2/25/2006 4:03:16 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Personally, I would rather you just all saw no one at this point, quit whining for pills you don't fucking need all the fucking time, acted like responsible parents, took better care of yourselves and got on with your GD lives. How's that?

Hey, we all have our personal prejudices. I'm not here defending welfare cheating drug users, but you're defending intrusive activist assholes.

Not even close.
I am not defending those at all. I am defending the ones who ain't.

But some of you just refuse to see that.
It is a tough job even on a good day and most everyone goes into medicine with altruistic goals. Where that comes apart is finding out how many of our patients are worthless sacks of shit. The only ones who don't end up jaded, for the most part, are those who are simply thrilled someone pays them what they make for doing what they do. IOW, not the best or brightest.

I would be willing to see you for your prostate check though.
In the middle of it I will show you my hands. Ta-daaaa!

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:08:03 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
It is a tough job even on a good day and most everyone goes into medicine with altruistic goals. Where that comes apart is finding out how many of our patients are worthless sacks of shit. The only ones who don't end up jaded, for the most part, are those who are simply thrilled someone pays them what they make for doing what they do. IOW, not the best or brightest.

I'm sure it's a tough job. We all have tough jobs. Have you been disillusioned and disappointed by life not meeting your expectations?

Get in line.

I would be willing to see you for your prostate check though.
In the middle of it I will show you my hands. Ta-daaaa!

Of course, I haven't offered to assrape any of my clients yet, but who knows what tomorrow will bring, right?

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:14:47 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It is a tough job even on a good day and most everyone goes into medicine with altruistic goals. Where that comes apart is finding out how many of our patients are worthless sacks of shit. The only ones who don't end up jaded, for the most part, are those who are simply thrilled someone pays them what they make for doing what they do. IOW, not the best or brightest.

I'm sure it's a tough job. We all have tough jobs. Have you been disillusioned and disappointed by life not meeting your expectations?

Get in line.

Disillusioned by the abuse of the system and the complete and total waste of tax dollars. Yes that part is true and disillusioned is a good word to describe it. People who work and aren't milking the system are generally a decent bunch.

No doubt I am not alone.

I would be willing to see you for your prostate check though.
In the middle of it I will show you my hands. Ta-daaaa!

Of course, I haven't offered to assrape any of my clients yet, but who knows what tomorrow will bring, right?

Well this thread needed a little humor.

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:16:01 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171
(U.S. Dept.of Health & Human Services)
Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Here is the link

I have seen the link and it is bullshit. Like I said, I have hashed this out enough times here. Not again.

Delve deeper.

I can put up a bunch of bullshit on a website or print it out an mail it. That doesn't make it either true or accurate. Do you believe everything they print in the newspaper, put on CNN, etc?

It's on the internet, so it must be true you know

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:16:40 PM EDT

[#5]

Would I be out of line asking my doctor about his sexual habits and whether or not he's an intravenous drug user?

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:19:44 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Would I be out of line asking my doctor about his sexual habits and whether or not he's an intravenous drug user?

If he is going to do surgery on you, sure.
But an HIV + surgeon is done, FWIW.

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:25:22 PM EDT

[#7]

I just got a new doctor when we moved. The form asked if we had guns in the house. I circled "yes" then realized, why the hell should he know? I just crossed it out and circled no. It also asked "if yes, are they locked up?" or something like that.

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:30:15 PM EDT

[#8]

I can understand why they ask, preventative medicene and all.

But the problem with it is that is is a right that is constantly under attack and a very poltical issues. And most of the medical associations are anti gun. So I would tell my Doctor that it is not some thing that is his business.

And as state befor if they pressed on about it I would find a different doc.

I can see the preventative aspect of it, I mean when docs did house calls they could see a persons home and how they live, then make a judgement on that. Then they didn't have to as an ass load of questions and assume you live in a disesas infested house full of open containers of razor blades, broken glass, oil of vitrol, and loaded machine guns.

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:31:04 PM EDT

[#9]

No.

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:36:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Could a Dr. here please tell me why they do this? Do any Dr.'s here do this?

I don't do this. I really don't know why they ask. I don't think it is anyones business who owns what as far as firearms.

In fact, unless a gun owner volunteers that they own this or that, it is common etiquette not to inquire about their collection.

Gun accidents are extremely rare compared to other causes of injury and death in children anyway (MVA, trauma from sports, etc).

My 2 cents.

Posted: 2/25/2006 4:47:31 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Would I be out of line asking my doctor about his sexual habits and whether or not he's an intravenous drug user?

Yes, yes you would be.

I don't ask about guns or other overly intrusive questions unless it pertains directly to the problem at hand. In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

People need to chill out about an anti doctor asking these questions. Just don't answer them. If they persist, remind them why you are there ie. your child has blood running out of his ear, etc.

Posted: 2/25/2006 5:47:40 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

Then I would vote with my dollars and my feet. I'm not a scumbag welfare sucker. I'm somebody with a damned good job and health plan, and I have paid out of my own pocket for a couple of >$1000 procedures that weren't covered. I won't tolerate being fucked with for some do-gooder's social experimentation, and if I don't have a right to pry into your life regarding something germane to my concerns, you don't have that right with me either. I'd be overjoyed to walk out of your office and never see you again, after telling you what you can do with your questionnaire.

You say you don't ask questions unless it pertains, but you go on to make your point about you being the one to ask questions. Pull your head out and make up your mind.

Posted: 2/25/2006 6:36:08 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

Yet this same arrogance caused me days of agony. I went to a doctor on a Friday with obvious strep. He gave the quick test that indicated no strep, so he said it is a virus and go home. Come Monday I went to another doctor that looked and said there is visible puss, so it is bacterial and we should do antibiotics. A strep test would be more money than the antibiotics, and the good test is several days and the quick test only catches some of the strains, so it is irrelevant if it is strep, so we will prescribe antibiotics. By the next day the relief was so pronounced that I would have blown him. I then considered going to the first doc and blowing him too (away).

I would rather go to Veterinary than a human doc. The Vet is trained to look at the symptoms and treat, the human doc is so tainted by the interactions of the hypochondriacs and women wasting their time that they become less able to make good decisions.

Posted: 2/25/2006 7:42:16 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

Yet this same arrogance caused me days of agony. I went to a doctor on a Friday with obvious strep. He gave the quick test that indicated no strep, so he said it is a virus and go home. Come Monday I went to another doctor that looked and said there is visible puss, so it is bacterial

That is simply not always the case.

and we should do antibiotics. A strep test would be more money than the antibiotics, and the good test is several days and the quick test only catches some of the strains, so it is irrelevant if it is strep, so we will prescribe antibiotics. By the next day the relief was so pronounced that I would have blown him. I then considered going to the first doc and blowing him too (away).

You have to treat the pt, not a lab test that is for sure.
That said, I don't know all of your symptms, what changed, etc.
I am a strong proponent of following up with the same doc even if I am the one who sees them down the line and gets it right.
In fact, more often than not people who do this are the ones who are seen many times before it is sorted out. If you understood the way it works out you would realize there is an order we are trained to do things and for good reasons. If someone comes to me and says I saw this doc and he did this thest, and then another who did this, etc and now some of their symptoms or exam finding have changed, then I get it right and look like the hero. Other times I am on the other end. And then there are the game players. Pts who only tell you part of the story, lie(if that isn't stupid, lie to your doctor), etc. Try to figure their bullshit out. I really love it when they don't tell me their meds.

I would rather go to Veterinary than a human doc. The Vet is trained to look at the symptoms and treat, the human doc is so tainted by the interactions of the hypochondriacs and women wasting their time that they become less able to make good decisions.

I think that may be a good plan for you. You'd be happier, we'd be happier, only the vet would be miserable. I am all for it as I think they have it too good.

Posted: 2/25/2006 7:53:59 PM EDT

[#15]

The doctor that my little girl and I go to is a woman. Her husband is also a doctor in the same office. My mother in law is one of their nurses so we get invited to the christmas parties at their house. The husband asked me at he christmas party if "I liked guns?" I figured I didn't care what he thought so I told him that "I have them and like them etc." He says, "Well come in the spare bedroom and check this out." We go in a he pulls out a Savage SS Left Handed bolt rifle. All I could think to say was, "You know the bolt handle is on the wrong side don't you?" since he is right handed. He says that he shoots better using his left eye. I guess they are cool with guns.

Posted: 2/25/2006 7:54:40 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

Then I would vote with my dollars and my feet. I'm not a scumbag welfare sucker. I'm somebody with a damned good job and health plan, and I have paid out of my own pocket for a couple of >$1000 procedures that weren't covered. I won't tolerate being fucked with for some do-gooder's social experimentation, and if I don't have a right to pry into your life regarding something germane to my concerns, you don't have that right with me either. I'd be overjoyed to walk out of your office and never see you again, after telling you what you can do with your questionnaire.

You say you don't ask questions unless it pertains, but you go on to make your point about you being the one to ask questions. Pull your head out and make up your mind.

Chill out, you sound like a nut-case.

I ask whatever questions I want to if it will satisfy the 'history' portion of the History & Physical.

If someone comes in with ass pain, and tells me they misplaced their revolver, then I will ask if it is possible they shoved it up their gay asshole. If you're uncomfortable answering the question, then head out the door and don't let it hit your asscrack on the way out.

Posted: 2/25/2006 7:56:26 PM EDT

[#17]

Ask him if he still denys beating his wife.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:02:54 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

Then I would vote with my dollars and my feet. I'm not a scumbag welfare sucker. I'm somebody with a damned good job and health plan, and I have paid out of my own pocket for a couple of >$1000 procedures that weren't covered. I won't tolerate being fucked with for some do-gooder's social experimentation, and if I don't have a right to pry into your life regarding something germane to my concerns, you don't have that right with me either. I'd be overjoyed to walk out of your office and never see you again, after telling you what you can do with your questionnaire.

You say you don't ask questions unless it pertains, but you go on to make your point about you being the one to ask questions. Pull your head out and make up your mind.

People get pissed off all the time about questions you ask them to get to the root of their problem and make a diagnosis. 90% is history. Almost always. And the average person I see has no comprehension of why I ask the questions I do. They are simply routine almost always, I don't have time to waste prying into your private life unless it is relevant.

Well child exams are another story.

And when we come to you for your expertise you can ask the questions. I don't start questioning my mechanic about his sexual history but I sure as hell asnwer his questions about my car, whatever they are because I know the way the process works from my standpoint also.

However, after dealing with the most obnoxious of the public for years I have developed considerable patience when I want service from others.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:05:17 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
In my office, I ask the questions. You came to see me, not the other way around.

Yet this same arrogance caused me days of agony. I went to a doctor on a Friday with obvious strep. He gave the quick test that indicated no strep, so he said it is a virus and go home. Come Monday I went to another doctor that looked and said there is visible puss, so it is bacterial and we should do antibiotics. A strep test would be more money than the antibiotics, and the good test is several days and the quick test only catches some of the strains, so it is irrelevant if it is strep, so we will prescribe antibiotics. By the next day the relief was so pronounced that I would have blown him. I then considered going to the first doc and blowing him too (away).

I would rather go to Veterinary than a human doc. The Vet is trained to look at the symptoms and treat, the human doc is so tainted by the interactions of the hypochondriacs and women wasting their time that they become less able to make good decisions.

It was so obvious that a doctor wasn't able to diagnose it but someone with zero medical knowledge was able to do so.

Arrogance? Arrogance is someone who has no fucking medical background whatsoever think they can diagnose anything.

And people wonder why I pack heat.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:06:00 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
The doctor that my little girl and I go to is a woman. Her husband is also a doctor in the same office. My mother in law is one of their nurses so we get invited to the christmas parties at their house. The husband asked me at he christmas party if "I liked guns?" I figured I didn't care what he thought so I told him that "I have them and like them etc." He says, "Well come in the spare bedroom and check this out." We go in a he pulls out a Savage SS Left Handed bolt rifle. All I could think to say was, "You know the bolt handle is on the wrong side don't you?" since he is right handed. He says that he shoots better using his left eye. I guess they are cool with guns.

Yup, and some of the rest of you here might be surprised if you weren't so paranoid and ready to jump down somebody's throat over nothing.

A lot of people here say we shouldn't be ashamed of our hobby, etc because it only reinforces the behavior of anti's. Well, here ya go. Great example.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:08:10 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Yup, and some of the rest of you here might be surprised if you weren't so paranoid and ready to jump down somebody's throat over nothing.

A lot of people here say we shouldn't be ashamed of our hobby, etc because it only reinforces the behavior of anti's. Well, here ya go. Great example.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:24:49 PM EDT

[#22]

quote]Quoted:
I think that may be a good plan for you. You'd be happier, we'd be happier, only the vet would be miserable. I am all for it as I think they have it too good.

The Vet would not be miserable, as they would have treated the actual visible symptoms. You might be miserable since there would be ego involved. At the time, my partner was in grad school/pharmacology and had scored the highest ever in the tests for that department at the university. She was more than capable of explaining the test procedures to me (that relationship ultimately did not not work out but she is now teaching at a college in Boston). As much as I might despise the aspects of our personal relationship, she is of the type that teaches you doctors what you know about drug interactions, and you would be typically be parroting her words to to describe how the drugs work. In this particular personal case, I am going to side with the Ex's explanation to of why that happened me rather than your belated judgment.

Other than that I respect doctors.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:29:21 PM EDT

[#23]

they'd be better off asking if all the household chemicals are in a locked cabinet
more houses have them and kids are more likely to get fucked up on them than with a gun

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:31:50 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
quote]Quoted:
I think that may be a good plan for you. You'd be happier, we'd be happier, only the vet would be miserable. I am all for it as I think they have it too good.

The Vet would not be miserable, as they would have treated the actual visible symptoms. You might be miserable since there would be ego involved. At the time, my partner was in grad school/pharmacology and had scored the highest ever in the tests for that department at the university. She was more than capable of explaining the test procedures to me (that relationship ultimately did not not work out but she is now teaching at a college in Boston). As much as I might despise the aspects of our personal relationship, she is of the type that teaches you doctors what you know about drug interactions, and you would be typically be parroting her words to to describe how the drugs work. In this particular personal case, I am going to side with the Ex's explanation to of why that happened me rather than your belated judgment.

Other than that I respect doctors.

Well, I guess it is then a damn good thing there is nothing to medicine other than pharmacology. Damn, and to think I could have only taken that one course and got by. What a waste of time it was going to 4 years o medschool. And don't even get me started on residency. Somehow I knew all along they were just using me for slave labor...

Move along. There's the door. Watch out...ooops, too late, hit ya in the ass anyhow.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:33:17 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
they'd be better off asking if all the household chemicals are in a locked cabinet
more houses have them and kids are more likely to get fucked up on them than with a gun

We do ask. You can bet your ass. As soon as the kids start to crawl. Well, actually about the 6month well child we hit that.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:33:18 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171
(U.S. Dept.of Health & Human Services)
Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Here is the link

at the bottom it says: Source: anonymous email
Yeah, thats a GREAT source, right next to the spam telling me I can make my dick 10 times bigger if I take a pill.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:34:42 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Arrogance? Arrogance is someone who has no fucking medical background whatsoever think they can diagnose anything.

And people wonder why I pack heat.

No, arrogance is not believing the symptoms described by the patient. You are so often hit with people that are not aware of their bodies, that when one can describe exactly what is happening that you discount it. The problem is not the patient, but your bias. Granted I understand your bias, but it still blocks good practice.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:38:09 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Arrogance? Arrogance is someone who has no fucking medical background whatsoever think they can diagnose anything.

And people wonder why I pack heat.

No, arrogance is not believing the symptoms described by the patient. You are so often hit with people that are not aware of their bodies, that when one can describe exactly what is happening that you discount it. The problem is not the patient, but your bias. Granted I understand your bias, but it still blocks good practice.

Don't try to squeeze us all into the same cubby hole bud.
I pride myself on pt history taking but I have been shocked to see people not only get pissed about questions I ask to get to that but some get pissed because I ask them anything at all. Trying to make all of you whackjobs happy in an excercise in futility.

One fucking bitch last year totally went off on me because I actually wanted her to tell me what symptoms her kid was having. You're all nuts. And I mean that.

Posted: 2/25/2006 8:47:10 PM EDT

[#29]

My physician and I talk about our guns often, and shoot together often, but he happens to be my brother. His partner stopped by my house one time with a shotgun he couldn't get back together.

I suppose there are anti-gun physicians out there, but I don't know any.

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:01:25 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Well, I guess it is then a damn good thing there is nothing to medicine other than pharmacology. Damn, and to think I could have only taken that one course and got by. What a waste of time it was going to 4 years o medschool. And don't even get me started on residency. Somehow I knew all along they were just using me for slave labor...

Move along. There's the door. Watch out...ooops, too late, hit ya in the ass anyhow.

Well damn for a medical PHD Pharmacology may be a single course, but for the actual degree it is a 4-year grad course and the graduates typically go to the Pharmaceutical industries. They are the ones that do the R&D on what you are told about. You only hear get to hear about what is released (unless you are actively following the development part of of drugs) The drug labs to not hire MDs, they hire Pharmacologists. And no, this is not the same as a Pharmacy major, this is well beyond that in terms of biochemistry.
You have a MD, do you understand WHY you are advised to prescribe a specific drug? If you don't my Ex can tell you exactly why, and how it acts in the body. You will be regurgitating, she will be developing what you regurgitate.

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:07:03 PM EDT

[#31]

My doctor asks me about guns.

Doc: "So, you get anything this deer season?"
Me: "Same as always, tag and bag still clean."
Doc: "I know how that goes. Hey, I just bought a new Browning A-Bolt SS in .300 win mag. Have you tried one?"
Me: "No, but I almost bought one. Picked up a Sako instead, but I'm sure the A-Bolt will be a great gun for you."

It's all about finding the right doctor.

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:11:40 PM EDT

[#32]

i guess i have to step in with an example, and what has started to happen....

there's something called antibiotic resistance... it's what happens when you start using antibiotics indiscriminately for everything.... like what most patients seem to want to do now days.

you go into a room. patient says, "doc, I need some antibiotics, I'm really sick with a temperatur and this stuffy nose and I kant breeth, and I'm coughing alot".
you ask "when did you start having symptoms?" Pt. says "today".
you ask more questions and get - sinus congestion - clear, watery discharge, cough, non productive - no hacking of lugies. person has been having fevers and body aches. throat has no real redness or swelling....

if we're good, we would say that this is most likely a viral illness, so we say "well, it looks like a virus, so i don;t think you need any antibitiocsat this time" at which the patient gets all bent out of shape most of the time, and you have to spend 10 minutes explaining bio 1 to the patient about the difference betwen bacteria and viruses, and the still want the antibiotic anyway, or

you give them the antibiotic anyway....

so what? well, azithromycin has a 30% resistance rate now in some areas for strep infections - the most common offender for sinusitus. In some other countries, levaquin, a very big gun as far as antibiotics go, has a >30% resistance rate. which means that these antibiotics have a high likelyhood of not working, because you all want antibiotcs for everything.

so sooner than latter, we're gonna run out of stuff to treat people with, or worse, we start treating someone, the get worse because what they have is resistant to the antibotic, and they die because we don't realize it untill they get too sick that the they don't respond when switched to another antibiotic.

so that is why we should ask questions, and why some patients just piss the heck out of some of us with their self diagnosis

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:12:46 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I guess it is then a damn good thing there is nothing to medicine other than pharmacology. Damn, and to think I could have only taken that one course and got by. What a waste of time it was going to 4 years o medschool. And don't even get me started on residency. Somehow I knew all along they were just using me for slave labor...

Move along. There's the door. Watch out...ooops, too late, hit ya in the ass anyhow.

Well damn for a medical PHD Pharmacology may be a single course, but for the actual degree it is a 4-year grad course and the graduates typically go to the Pharmaceutical industries. They are the ones that do the R&D on what you are told about. You only hear get to hear about what is released (unless you are actively following the development part of of drugs) The drug labs to not hire MDs, they hire Pharmacologists. And no, this is not the same as a Pharmacy major, this is well beyond that in terms of biochemistry.
You have a MD, do you understand WHY you are advised to prescribe a specific drug? If you don't my Ex can tell you exactly why, and how it acts in the body. You will be regurgitating, she will be developing what you regurgitate.

Bud, you are a flake. Get a life or something.

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:18:22 PM EDT

[#34]

Recent quote from a local pediatrician:

"You don't keep any guns in the house do you?".

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:18:53 PM EDT

[#35]

actually, it seems that the reason why we get asked to prescribe a certain drug is that the pharm co has spent a lot of money developing something, and they want to recoup their expenses and make a lot of money off of it so they take us out to expensive diners, and have slanted studies and statistics thrown at us. but this is getting a little bit off topic now....

back on topic, it generally seems that pediatricians have been programed to ask that question, and, like it has been said many times before, if you as a patient don't like the question, don't answer it, and before you walk out that door the last time, explain to the head of the clinic why you're leaving.

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:27:08 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Virgina blocks reasonable gun reforms"

Yeah, ask about guns, swimming pools, chain saws, kitchen knives, bathroom tubs, buckets, poisons ...

Heck, doctors kill TEN TIMES more people that guns do...last I heard there were over 100,000 dead per-year due to medical negligence; compare that to about 10,000 murders per year.

10,000 accidental gun deaths a year divided by 80,000,000 guns owners= .000125 gun deaths per gun owner.......I'd say we're a pretty safe group of Americans....compared to this:

Deadly Medical Mistakes Exposed

New York, New York - New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA now show that medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in the United States.

According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die annually due to medical mistakes.

source: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/10/29/medical_system_is_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm

that my friends is why I don't go to the doctor......

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:31:43 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I guess it is then a damn good thing there is nothing to medicine other than pharmacology. Damn, and to think I could have only taken that one course and got by. What a waste of time it was going to 4 years o medschool. And don't even get me started on residency. Somehow I knew all along they were just using me for slave labor...

Move along. There's the door. Watch out...ooops, too late, hit ya in the ass anyhow.

Well damn for a medical PHD Pharmacology may be a single course, but for the actual degree it is a 4-year grad course and the graduates typically go to the Pharmaceutical industries. They are the ones that do the R&D on what you are told about. You only hear get to hear about what is released (unless you are actively following the development part of of drugs) The drug labs to not hire MDs, they hire Pharmacologists. And no, this is not the same as a Pharmacy major, this is well beyond that in terms of biochemistry.
You have a MD, do you understand WHY you are advised to prescribe a specific drug? If you don't my Ex can tell you exactly why, and how it acts in the body. You will be regurgitating, she will be developing what you regurgitate.

Bud, you are a flake. Get a life or something.

Huh? I have no real horse in this race other than to describe what a Pharmacologist does. I don't even have fond memories of the one I married. I took it that you were deriding that profession and it seemed that you did not understand what they are or what they do in relationship to what you do.

My initial lament was that doctors often do not believe their patients self diagnosis, so why talk at all (a Vet does not rely on verbal communication, so their diagnotic skills may be better).

Posted: 2/25/2006 9:36:53 PM EDT

[#38]

My daughters doctor has more Guns than i do, he has pics of his 8 year old twin daughters shooting there high dollar Thompson Contender semi auto 22's in his office. He says propper education and training is the key to children and firearms.

Posted: 2/25/2006 10:00:05 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
i guess i have to step in with an example, and what has started to happen....

there's something called antibiotic resistance... it's what happens when you start using antibiotics indiscriminately for everything.... like what most patients seem to want to do now days.

you go into a room. patient says, "doc, I need some antibiotics, I'm really sick with a temperatur and this stuffy nose and I kant breeth, and I'm coughing alot".
you ask "when did you start having symptoms?" Pt. says "today".
you ask more questions and get - sinus congestion - clear, watery discharge, cough, non productive - no hacking of lugies. person has been having fevers and body aches. throat has no real redness or swelling....

if we're good, we would say that this is most likely a viral illness, so we say "well, it looks like a virus, so i don;t think you need any antibitiocsat this time" at which the patient gets all bent out of shape most of the time, and you have to spend 10 minutes explaining bio 1 to the patient about the difference betwen bacteria and viruses, and the still want the antibiotic anyway, or

you give them the antibiotic anyway....

so what? well, azithromycin has a 30% resistance rate now in some areas for strep infections - the most common offender for sinusitus. In some other countries, levaquin, a very big gun as far as antibiotics go, has a >30% resistance rate. which means that these antibiotics have a high likelyhood of not working, because you all want antibiotcs for everything.

so sooner than latter, we're gonna run out of stuff to treat people with, or worse, we start treating someone, the get worse because what they have is resistant to the antibotic, and they die because we don't realize it untill they get too sick that the they don't respond when switched to another antibiotic.

so that is why we should ask questions, and why some patients just piss the heck out of some of us with their self diagnosis

True, true. If it helps any I do not worry about washing my hands or keepinig my kitchen counter sterile. I do not want antibiotics at all for minor shit. Minor exposure we should just suffer thru. White blood cells visable in the throat ( Dr. Emtman, Pullman WA in my case) is bacterial no matter what some test shows, so treat for bacterial infection. Otherwise you are doing harm.

Posted: 2/26/2006 4:35:37 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Why dont you take some responsibility and use your feet to choose. Would you take your car to someone that didnt fix it correctly? But you would take yourself to the so called retard over and over again? So who is the retard again?

Not everyone gets to pick and choose their physician, particularly in HMOs. I got stuck with an idiot for a few visits when my regular doc went on vacation one month, and said idiot damn near killed me.

It wasn't ENTIRELY his fault. The fact that the antibiotic he prescribed didn't work against the type of bug I had wasn't known for almost a year afterwards (when some docs studied it more closely and found that the bugs weren't actually killed but were merely temporarily inactivated, and would then come back). What WAS his fault was that he refused to listen when I told him it wasn't working, and then he underprescribed the next antibiotic he tried, telling me at my last visit that it was normal to still not feel well and that the antibiotics were merely to knock down the bug, that the body would finish them off.

After reading you and Dr. Jarhead's responses in medical threads, I think I have to change my vote in the "most arrogant professionals" poll from cops to docs.

Yes, you guys get a shitload of a lot of training. That doesn't mean that mere mortals cannot figure things out on their own, particularly when you docs demonstrate a complete inability to listen to your patients or to acknowledge that patients are capable of understanding what the hell is happening in their own bodies.

Posted: 2/26/2006 4:41:14 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Could a Dr. here please tell me why they do this?

Because doctors as a rule, at least the younger ones coming out of med school, are we-know-what's-best-for-you, nanny-state liberals who want to ban guns.

Do any Dr.'s here do this?

My wife does, but only because her employers force her to. She'd rather not deal with it. Most patients leave the question blank on the form.

One exception: a young couple, both doctors, who recently joined my wife's practice BOTH have carry licenses and love to shoot. I would love to get together with them and shoot, but our work schedules don't match up lately.

Posted: 2/26/2006 4:50:12 AM EDT

[#42]

I currently have a doctor that apparently works for the HMO's, he's certainly not spending time with his patients.

Here are some symptoms, tell me what you advise -
- pain from moderate to severe to left of sternum,
- minor to severe constipation,
- chills,
- urine bright orange on the Saturday two days before exam,
- white stools the day after exam, no action by doc after phone call,
- gall bladder removed 10 years prior.

Would you order blood tests?
Get the patient admitted to the hospital?
Diagnosis?

I'll post the answer after while.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:01:53 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I currently have a doctor that apparently works for the HMO's, he's certainly not spending time with his patients.

Here are some symptoms, tell me what you advise -
- pain from moderate to severe to left of sternum,
- minor to severe constipation,
- chills,
- urine bright orange on the Saturday two days before exam,
- white stools the day after exam, no action by doc after phone call,
- gall bladder removed 10 years prior.

Would you order blood tests?
Get the patient admitted to the hospital?
Diagnosis?

Liver problems? IIRC, much of the brown color of feces is from bilirubin, so if they're white, it sounds like the liver is out of whack and isn't eliminating it properly. Are the eyes turning orange also? Hepatitis, maybe?

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:06:24 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
actually, it seems that the reason why we get asked to prescribe a certain drug is that the pharm co has spent a lot of money developing something, and they want to recoup their expenses and make a lot of money off of it so they take us out to expensive diners, and have slanted studies and statistics thrown at us. but this is getting a little bit off topic now....

Mine -- a good doc, really -- kept asking me whether I suffered from GERD. I think he wanted to prescribe more Nexium, or whatever the anti-reflux medication was that was popular in the late 1990's. Still, it bugged me a little that he kept asking me whether I suffered from GERD at every exam, whether I was in for a checkup or bronchitis or strep throat.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:07:03 AM EDT

[#45]

None of their business.

Next question.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:20:04 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Arrogance? Arrogance is someone who has no fucking medical background whatsoever think they can diagnose anything.

And people wonder why I pack heat.

No, arrogance is not believing the symptoms described by the patient. You are so often hit with people that are not aware of their bodies, that when one can describe exactly what is happening that you discount it. The problem is not the patient, but your bias. Granted I understand your bias, but it still blocks good practice.

You are an idiot and have no clue what you're talking about.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:22:44 AM EDT

[#47]

I have 2 kids--the question was on the initial history form when we went to the Pediatrician. I crossed it off.

If you feel it is not the Doctors business--then cross it off. If the Dr. or RN asks verbally, tell them that if there were any, they would be safely stored.

While the question is somewhat politically motivated--when you see patients driving around with 4 kids running loose in the back of their station wagon (bald tires, etc.), I can see why they are concerned about safety in the home.

And, if the Dr. does ask about guns, he should probably ask about swimming pools, household chemicals, uncovered electrical outlets, etc.

DrJarHead--

The Vet is trained to look at the symptoms and treat,

Red-Don has forgotten the most basic thing about vets--when they Can't get their patients better (or the disease is contagious, etc.)--What can Vets do that MD/DO etc. (I'm an etc as a DPM) can't normally do?

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:24:26 AM EDT

[#48]

Wouldn't do business with a doctor that asks.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:26:42 AM EDT

[#49]

No, arrogance is not believing the symptoms described by the patient. You are so often hit with people that are not aware of their bodies, that when one can describe exactly what is happening that you discount it. The problem is not the patient, but your bias. Granted I understand your bias, but it still blocks good practice.

Red-Don--we are instructed in school, and find out later in practice that 70% (I've heard higher) of diagnoses come from the HISTORY. That is what the patient (and in many cases the spouse/parent/guardian, etc) tells you. Not the lab tests, not the Physical exam, but the history.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:32:02 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I guess it is then a damn good thing there is nothing to medicine other than pharmacology. Damn, and to think I could have only taken that one course and got by. What a waste of time it was going to 4 years o medschool. And don't even get me started on residency. Somehow I knew all along they were just using me for slave labor...

Move along. There's the door. Watch out...ooops, too late, hit ya in the ass anyhow.

Well damn for a medical PHD Pharmacology may be a single course, but for the actual degree it is a 4-year grad course and the graduates typically go to the Pharmaceutical industries. They are the ones that do the R&D on what you are told about. You only hear get to hear about what is released (unless you are actively following the development part of of drugs) The drug labs to not hire MDs, they hire Pharmacologists. And no, this is not the same as a Pharmacy major, this is well beyond that in terms of biochemistry.
You have a MD, do you understand WHY you are advised to prescribe a specific drug? If you don't my Ex can tell you exactly why, and how it acts in the body. You will be regurgitating, she will be developing what you regurgitate.

Bud, you are a flake. Get a life or something.

Roger that. It never ceases to amaze me how little knowledge people think doctors have. What the hell do they think we do for 4 years, sit around and talk about how smart we are.

I personally have no clue why I prescribe most drugs. When I prescribe Lasix for edema I imagine that a little transmitter in the pill draws aliens to come suck out the excess fluid. Or is that Zaroxylin.

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