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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:59:01 AM EDT
I have a Jewell on my "go to" AR15 rifle right. I really like it, but for durability is this a bad choice?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:00:22 AM EDT
I'm quite content with the standard trigger.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:01:10 AM EDT
how heavy is the pull? i'd hate to have a 3 pound trigger in a shtf situation...
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:02:16 AM EDT
standard trigger. plus spare parts, triggers are cheap enough.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:07:06 AM EDT
JARD 3lb.

Because it is very easy for me to aim bumpfire the hell out of it......if I need to.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:07:43 AM EDT
I've heard too many questionable things about match triggers. Don't get me wrong, I'ma gadget guy, but I know from experience that things that work like a charm in training have ahabit of failing when you really need them. Standard GI-style is my way to go.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:14:31 AM EDT
I have a Bushmaster and didn't like the stock trigger so I replaced it with the Bushmaster 2 stage trigger.

I like the 2 stage trigger much better and I don't think I would have a problem with it in a SHTF situation.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:18:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:21:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:23:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 10:23:47 AM EDT by ORinTX]
The CMC triggers are very nice, and don't have any sort of adjustment / set screws.

Honestly I think there are other parts which are a bigger failure risk than any trigger.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:33:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
I have a Bushmaster and didn't like the stock trigger so I replaced it with the Bushmaster 2 stage trigger.

I like the 2 stage trigger much better and I don't think I would have a problem with it in a SHTF situation.




The Bushmaster two stage is renowned for crapping out. Us highpower shooters have found that one out. I have seen no less than a dozen of them go at our local club. The Bushmaster is a knock off of Frank White's (CLE) but without the hardened carbide insert.

Good luck.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:34:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clasky:
I've heard too many questionable things about match triggers. Don't get me wrong, I'ma gadget guy, but I know from experience that things that work like a charm in training have ahabit of failing when you really need them. Standard GI-style is my way to go.



THIS is the correct answer.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:39:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:42:27 AM EDT
I wouldn't put the Jewell in a SHTF rifle. Jewell says right in the directions to NOT use his trigger with military ammo. It batters the trigger which is NOT hardened.

The Jewell is a great trigger.
I selected it for my Match rifle; which is where it belongs, NOT in a SHTF or otherwise mil. spec. rifle.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:43:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BookHound:

Then again, I keep a fire control group in my spare parts too.



That's my plan as well. Keep a spare FCG and a punch and you're in bidness. I like the CMC and you can't tear it away from me. I'll keep a spare CMC trigger on hand if that's what it comes to. That's a real quick swap too with his drop-in set.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:44:16 AM EDT
All depends on what I grab when the S hits TF, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:45:42 AM EDT
RRA match on all 'cept my 9mm.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:45:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 10:46:33 AM EDT by Stealth]
I use the original trigger, but I had a good gunsmith smooth it up. It breaks really nice @4 pounds. I didn't want it any lighter for a shtf firearm.


eta... I've got the Jewell on my AR varmint rig.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:47:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 10:48:11 AM EDT by rebel_rifle]

Originally Posted By Coolio:
Jewell says right in the directions to NOT use his trigger with military ammo.





Another reason to not use a Jewell in a SHTF rifle is that the Jewell hammer spring is notorious for not having the strength of the USGI hammer spring. If you notice, it is a proprietary spring and is nothing at all like a USGI hammer spring. It does not have the strength to reliably ignite hard military primers. It is also not advised to use a Jewell in a .22LR upper. I have tried with both the Air Force kit and the Army 261, to no use. It was unreliable at best.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:03:03 AM EDT
Rock River two-stage.
No problems after 5000+ rnds.
What kind of wear/damage should I look for?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:15:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:43:00 AM EDT
good afternoon.



Originally Posted By Stealth:
I use the original trigger, but I had a good gunsmith smooth it up. It breaks really nice @4 pounds. I didn't want it any lighter for a shtf firearm.

ditto. it isn't hard to make an original trigger like that. nor does it take much time.

mine break like glass at 4 pounds with Tubb springs and have more than 10k rounds through each of them.

i do carry a set of GI springs in my range/bo bag.


eta... I've got the Jewell on my AR varmint rig.




no offense meant, and i hope none taken, but i would be afraid of an aftermarket trigger and/or fire control parts on a 'fighting gun'. i have fired rifles with them and liked them, but i guess i am old/old fashioned and like to stick with the proven stuff.

i might consider a different trigger if i were shooting long range or varmints a long way off, but for now i am happy with a 4# trigger that breaks cleanly.

peace.
billr
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:44:17 AM EDT
RRA 2-stage.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:46:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
I have a Bushmaster and didn't like the stock trigger so I replaced it with the Bushmaster 2 stage trigger.

I like the 2 stage trigger much better and I don't think I would have a problem with it in a SHTF situation.



Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
IF I were to put a match trigger on a SHTF rifle, it would have to be nonadjustable, like a RRA.

Murphy's Law applies, even to locktited set screws.


Agreed on both. Have a Rock River two-stage in all my ARs.....thus far 6...but I need MORE! Ahh...I mean I had six before the boating accident.....curse those tippy canoes!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:47:26 AM EDT
I don't get it - with the exception of triggers that break, why do so many people here have a problem with some aftermarket parts?

The originals (GI parts) were made on contract by the lowest bidder... Am I out of line for not thinking that USGI is always the end-all, be-all?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:47:58 AM EDT
Standard old Bushmaster trigger does me just fine.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:52:40 AM EDT
Thanks for the question, bubba. Reminds me I need to add a trigger kit to my spares.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:56:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By billr0012:
good afternoon.



Originally Posted By Stealth:
I use the original trigger, but I had a good gunsmith smooth it up. It breaks really nice @4 pounds. I didn't want it any lighter for a shtf firearm.

eta... I've got the Jewell on my AR varmint rig.




no offense meant, and i hope none taken, but i would be afraid of an aftermarket trigger and/or fire control parts on a 'fighting gun'. i have fired rifles with them and liked them, but i guess i am old/old fashioned and like to stick with the proven stuff.

i might consider a different trigger if i were shooting long range or varmints a long way off, but for now i am happy with a 4# trigger that breaks cleanly.

peace.
billr



Agreed! I use the original trigger smoothed up for my shtf rifle and the jewell is on the Varmint rifle.

4 pounds feels 'right'! Not too light and not so hard as to require a 'jerk'.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 12:20:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 12:22:21 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]

Originally Posted By macman37:
The originals (GI parts) were made on contract by the lowest bidder... Am I out of line for not thinking that USGI is always the end-all, be-all?



There is more to it than that. The GI trigger feels heavier and has more pretravel FOR A REASON: the hammer and sear engage at an angle such that the hammer has to cam back before it is released (remove your upper and pull the trigger to see this happening if you don't believe me). This arrangement on the GI FCG adds a significant margin of safety when the weapon is being carried on patrol and when "palms are sweaty".

Example: say the rifleman aims at a target, begins to take up the trigger, but then changes his mind (e.g. the enemy disappears behind cover) and does not fire. When the trigger is released, the hammer-sear angle on the GI FCG causes the hammer to fully relax back to the start position. With all the match triggers I have seen, the hammer remains where it is, amounting to a more dangerous "hair trigger" situation.

I am a big fan of light match triggers on my match guns, and my JP has never let me down in several thousands of rounds fired in 3-gun competition, but I would NOT use anything other than a GI trigger on my SHTF rifles.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 12:43:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:

Originally Posted By macman37:
The originals (GI parts) were made on contract by the lowest bidder... Am I out of line for not thinking that USGI is always the end-all, be-all?



There is more to it than that. The GI trigger feels heavier and has more pretravel FOR A REASON: the hammer and sear engage at an angle such that the hammer has to cam back before it is released (remove your upper and pull the trigger to see this happening if you don't believe me). This arrangement on the GI FCG adds a significant margin of safety when the weapon is being carried on patrol and when "palms are sweaty".

Example: say the rifleman aims at a target, begins to take up the trigger, but then changes his mind (e.g. the enemy disappears behind cover) and does not fire. When the trigger is released, the hammer-sear angle on the GI FCG causes the hammer to fully relax back to the start position. With all the match triggers I have seen, the hammer remains where it is, amounting to a more dangerous "hair trigger" situation.

I am a big fan of light match triggers on my match guns, and my JP has never let me down in several thousands of rounds fired in 3-gun competition, but I would NOT use anything other than a GI trigger on my SHTF rifles.



excellent post!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 12:44:54 PM EDT
Stealthyblagga: Thanks for the education. Consider me schooled.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 12:49:23 PM EDT
I chose the standard GI trigger in my 20" go to rifle but improved it with some JP reduced power springs. i have yet to have a light primer strike or round go off useing the springs but it did indeed improve the trigger pull drasticaly.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 1:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:

There is more to it than that. The GI trigger feels heavier and has more pretravel FOR A REASON: the hammer and sear engage at an angle such that the hammer has to cam back before it is released (remove your upper and pull the trigger to see this happening if you don't believe me). This arrangement on the GI FCG adds a significant margin of safety when the weapon is being carried on patrol and when "palms are sweaty".

Example: say the rifleman aims at a target, begins to take up the trigger, but then changes his mind (e.g. the enemy disappears behind cover) and does not fire. When the trigger is released, the hammer-sear angle on the GI FCG causes the hammer to fully relax back to the start position. With all the match triggers I have seen, the hammer remains where it is, amounting to a more dangerous "hair trigger" situation.

I am a big fan of light match triggers on my match guns, and my JP has never let me down in several thousands of rounds fired in 3-gun competition, but I would NOT use anything other than a GI trigger on my SHTF rifles.



Excellent post. Useful information.

But...there are tons of people carrying 1911s with very light triggers with no pretravel at all. Basic firearm safety applies in either case: keep your finger off the trigger. If I'm carrying a rifle with a 3lb trigger, I have to practice the same firearm safety that I would if I have a stock GI trigger, right?

This topic has come up before and a lot of folks say the same thing you do about a rifle trigger for SHTF, but some of those same folks (I'm not saying you, but others) carry 1911s with very light triggers and some have even said that their 1911 is their SHTF sidearm to back up their rifle.

Why the double standard? I'm not trying to be combative, I just want to understand what it is I'm missing.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 1:04:52 PM EDT
Been using the LMT 2 stage and consider it a big improvement over a stock bushy trigger. Seems alot more rugged too.
.02
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 1:07:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 2:22:10 PM EDT
Thanks stealthyblagga. I never knew why the change in angles for the fancy triggers - I love it when I learn something new.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 2:27:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 2:36:44 PM EDT by woodbutcher223308]
On 2 of them, 2 do not. RRA 'S


Forgot a comma.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:16:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:17:55 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]

Originally Posted By ORinTX:
But...there are tons of people carrying 1911s with very light triggers with no pretravel at all...



I agree. Some people do carry 1911s with 4lb triggers, which is their business, but I wouldn't.

I use an STI double-stack 1911 with a 2lb trigger for competitive shooting, but would definitely NOT carry such a trigger on the street - my carry guns are a Glock M27 and a Kahr MK40.
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