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Posted: 2/21/2006 3:50:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 3:51:29 AM EDT by Sly_C]
So I know this is probably 2-3 days old, but I was just checking my email that I have my NRA stuff sent too and I found this in the last NRA-ILA newsletter. I mean damn, this is some messed up stuff.


HOUSE HEARS CONCERNS ABOUT RICHMOND GUN SHOW

On Wednesday, February 15, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security heard testimony from individuals affected by heavy-handed enforcement tactics of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) at a gun show in Richmond, Virginia last August.

According to the gun show organizer, Annette Gelles of Showmasters, dozens of BATFE and local law enforcement officers intrusively questioned dealers and customers, tried to discourage people from buying guns, and stopped show attendees on the roads after they left. In some cases, customers' lawfully purchased guns were confiscated, and returned only when the customers visited BATFE's office for more questioning. In other cases, local police officers visited gun buyers' homes to conduct "residency checks"-intrusive questioning of family members and even neighbors.

One show visitor, James Lalime, a private citizen who sometimes works for a dealer at the local gun shows, testified that he was interrogated by BATFE and other law enforcement personnel who accused him of dealing in firearms without a license. John White, a show exhibitor, licensed dealer, and former police officer, testified that he appreciates law enforcement officials' efforts to prevent illegal sales, but that enforcement activities went too far-especially in focusing on buyers who were women or members of minority groups. Suzanne McComas, an investigator for NRA-ILA, also testified and provided sworn affidavits from individuals who were singled out for BATFE attention, apparently on the basis of race or sex.

The subcommittee members were upset with what they heard. Subcommittee Chairman Howard Coble (R-NC) questioned whether the operations were "a proper allocation of resources," and suggested that "49 law enforcement officers could have found a better way to curb criminal activity in the Richmond area." Over the next few months, the same subcommittee expects to hold additional oversight hearings on this and other BATFE activities, including both citizen witnesses and BATFE officials. Watch the Grassroots Alert for more details as they're available.



Am I surprised over nothing, is this pretty typical ATF treatment for dealers and such at gunshows? I've never had anything like this happen to me in the gun shows I've attended.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:57:13 AM EDT
We Virginians have been following this story since it happened last year, despite the insistence of some on this board that it was a made up fantasy story.

Because we all know that the BATFE is known for being an organization posessed by good judgdment and restraint.....

Anyway, there have been several updates posted about this. It was not merely residency checks (which were not authorized by ANY statute, and may indeed have been illegal...) but also the harassment and illegal confiscation of property from people they "suspected" to be "straw" purchasers.

It was an absolute travesty of justice, and hopefully our legislators will get tough on the BATFE before they end up with ANOTHER disaster. Every few years the BATFE seems to go trampling all over people and causing massive problems. It is high time that their discretionary authority over firearms was removed, and that their operations were strictly limited.

They have repeatedly proven unable to handle the power given to them.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:59:37 AM EDT
"Fighting Crime" is dangerous!

Why not just hassle citizens at Gun shows?..........it's safer and has the added benefit of the illusion of activity while pushing the peasants around..........
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:01:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:02:03 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]
hometown thread

ETA: if it can happen in gun friendly virginia it sure as hell can happen in your neck of the woods!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:03:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
It is high time that their discretionary authority over firearms was removed, and that their operations were strictly limited.

They have repeatedly proven unable to handle the power given to them.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:11:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
hometown thread

ETA: if it can happen in gun friendly virginia it sure as hell can happen in your neck of the woods!



Some qualifiers about "gun friendly" Virginia.

While Virginia's gun laws at the state level are pretty good, Virginia also contains significant portions of the people who make up our national government. Thus the creep of stupid trickles from DC into our fair Commonwealth.

There have also been "studies" done that show a significant percentage of weapons used in crimes in DC, New York city, etc "came" from Virginia.

Combine the anti-gun DC sentiments with the appearance to the dunderheaded that we are funneling guns to criminals, and you have a recipie for stupidity like the Richmond gunshow events. While anti-gunners do not make up the majority of the state, anti-gunners like our new Governor (who used city funds to bus people to the Million Mom March....) do find their way into power and often allow the kind of rights-trampling nonsense we saw at the Showmasters gunshow to go on.

Virginia is not a monolithic state. It is a red state, but barely. The only reason more anti-gun BS hasn't happened in this state is because of the fierce grass-roots work done by a couple of pro-gun groups like the VCDL.

Several legislators that these grass roots organizations have targeted have lost seats SPECIFICALLY on the gun issue. As a result, it is whispered around Richmond that you don't want to piss them off.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:16:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
It is a red state, but barely. The only reason more anti-gun BS hasn't happened in this state is because of the fierce grass-roots work done by a couple of pro-gun groups like the VCDL.

Isn't that the truth.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:16:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:20:18 AM EDT by pale_pony]
Strange activities for a TAX REVENUE enforcement agency...

Edited to add: Under report your income ny $200 and the IRS will probably look the other way or audit you at best...fail to buy a $200 tax stamp and the BATF will come kill your dog...your children...your wife while she's holding your baby...and then burn down your house with the rest of your children trapped inside...

What has this country come to?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:54:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 5:06:55 AM EDT by Sly_C]

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Strange activities for a TAX REVENUE enforcement agency...

Edited to add: Under report your income ny $200 and the IRS will probably look the other way or audit you at best...fail to buy a $200 tax stamp and the BATF will come kill your dog...your children...your wife while she's holding your baby...and then burn down your house with the rest of your children trapped inside...

What has this country come to?



you mean other than preaching about gay sex to our children in kindergarden, taking our guns away from us, glorifying islam (religion of peace my ass), bashing christianity, and harping on affirmitave action (read reverse discrimination) ? None of which is the point of this post, but I felt like a rant.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:07:09 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:23:46 AM EDT
The BATF is just doing there job! Know be good citizens and don’t buy those nasty fire arms. Know just go back to your reservations, err I mean homes and the government will take care of all your needs.

BATF is getting a reputation of being the new secret police! Gun crime in DC is because of guns in Virginia? Why can’t these people see the facts? Honest citizens with guns reduce crime rates! There are no such things as honest criminals! If they want a gun they can build one, they do not care about laws or who they hurt.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:31:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markmars:
BATF is getting a reputation of being the new secret police!


ummm, they've had that rep for about the last 30 yrs, ever since reagan tried to disband them. they are the attack dogs for the dem left, our own version of the brownshirts.

you guy's would be surprised how politicized our fed forces are. the border patrol, dea, they're still pretty much law enforcement oriented. but the batfe, fbi, secret service, capitol police??? holy shit! law enforcement is a sideline, their main concentration is to do the political bidding of their masters in dc...
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:36:48 AM EDT
This never happened. BS flags were raised are we were told with certainty that this did not occur and was mearly the ranting of tin-foil crazies.


I'm so confused.



Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:42:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
This never happened. BS flags were raised are we were told with certainty that this did not occur and was mearly the ranting of tin-foil crazies.


I'm so confused.






As someone who almost got run over in the parking lot of the SHowplace Arena by them while they were trying to follow a suspect. I can tell you that this did happen.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:43:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
This never happened. BS flags were raised are we were told with certainty that this did not occur and was mearly the ranting of tin-foil crazies.


I'm so confused.



Yeah....funny how that works out, isn't it???

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:50:31 AM EDT
Feb 28th the ATF will respond. Chair is really ATF friendly though so expect softballs. one or two on panel should ask better questions.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:54:39 AM EDT
Fucking gestapo
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