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Posted: 2/16/2006 7:17:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 7:46:40 AM EDT by CannoncockerUSMC]
A bit of background: I did 8 years in the USMC, from 85-93, fought in Desert Storm. I wanted to buy some armored plates recently and figured RBR plates were the way to go. Why? I used to live in Richmond, VA and became acquainted with their products at TREXPO in the late nineties. I found their RBR ALP plates at Botach Tactical for $400.00 per plate. I placed TWO separate orders in late January for a total of four plates on two separate orders and shipments.

I received the first shipment on a Wed and eagerly opened the package to find two plates. They were black plastic covered. I pried off the covers and found a white plate inside. But I noticed no RBR logo or other nomenclature. I called Botach and they said those were RBR plates. They said "we ship what they send us". The guy at Botach was the most senior manager they have, a guy named "Mark". I then called RBR on Thursday and spoke with James Scovell, President of RBR. He indicated that RBR products do in fact have some sort of RBR logo on each plate. He indicated that what I described to him were not RBR plates. I then called the owner of Botach, an individual known as "BK". He said that the first shipment was just a mistake and that if I sent them back I would have no problems, he would either credit me or send me RBR plates.

I received the second shipment Thursday. Guess what? They were not RBR plates either, but the same crappy plates with zero identifying marks, no codes, manufacture dates, nothing at all. I then called RBR again two more times. I have e-mailed them photos of what I received on two seperate shipments. The RBR guys have been great. I not only spoke with Mr. Scovell, but also Paul Fishnick and another gentleman by the first name Chris. All have been very keen to help me and stand behind RBR products and reputation. I will not speak for them, but I can say that they are not at all happy that one of their distributors has tried to get over on me. They also said they would sell me the plates directly. I wanted RBR products for a reason: they are the one of the best. I am convinced that Botach was hoping I was an air softer or some one who just did not know any better and who would never know the difference. I will not say why I want the plates, but I will say that lives could be in danger if sub-standard armor is relied upon in a moment of danger.

I have now received full credit on my Visa from Botach. But I have not heard back from RBR and I must assume that their offer to sell me the plates directly was just lip service. I am now in need of some plates. Anybody know the best place to get ceramic plates?


Let this be a lesson on Botach!
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:21:36 AM EDT
Some reason I do not think you will get 10+ pages out of this.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:24:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Some reason I do not think you will get 10+ pages out of this.



Not unless he searches the archive for botach gripes.

Those folks are kind of infamous for selling items not in stock and the giving you the run around on refunds.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:25:04 AM EDT
Nobody said I wanted ten pages.....But I do want to alert the members to a shady business.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:25:05 AM EDT
Everyone knows Botach sucks. Ammoman used to have a very good reputation.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:30:11 AM EDT
is Ammoman the same company as Botach?? whats the connection, I've done busness with Ammoman on bullets, and always a +1 on service.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:30:25 AM EDT
There will always be a soft place in my heart for Botach, from when they had IMI M193 for $180/1200 delivered.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:32:13 AM EDT
What I meant by my post was that ammo sales effect us on more of a scale than body armor.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:33:00 AM EDT
What's all this looney babble about ammoman being problematic?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:35:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 7:38:31 AM EDT by Goonboss]
GT Distributers.

I got an RBR MICH Helmet from them.

It's awesome.

GT Is the single best internet ongoing experience I've had.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:36:42 AM EDT
Yawn....

This isnt new news.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:42:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 7:44:24 AM EDT by mr_wilson]

Originally Posted By markm:
What's all this looney babble about ammoman being problematic?



Some nancy boy who obviously can't read the info posted on Eric's site, got bent outta shape over the fact his LC 308 was back-ordered.

He's whinning mightly and others are piling on, (most of 'em apparently who've never even ordered from him) it's a big whine-fest , best avoided IMO.

Mike

ps - Think I'll go place an order from him, just to piss them off as he's never given me any reason to complain....

Sorry for the sidetrack.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:43:55 AM EDT
You need to edit your post title, this issue has nothing to do with Ammoman.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:46:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CannoncockerUSMC:
A bit of background: I did 8 years in the USMC, from 85-93, fought in Desert Storm. I wanted to buy some armored plates recently and figured RBR plates were the way to go. Why? I used to live in Richmond, VA and became acquainted with their products at TREXPO in the late nineties. I found their RBR ALP plates at Botach Tactical for $400.00 per plate. I placed TWO separate orders in late January for a total of four plates on two separate orders and shipments.

I received the first shipment on a Wed and eagerly opened the package to find two plates. They were black plastic covered. I pried off the covers and found a white plate inside. But I noticed no RBR logo or other nomenclature. I called Botach and they said those were RBR plates. They said "we ship what they send us". The guy at Botach was the most senior manager they have, a guy named "Mark". I then called RBR on Thursday and spoke with James Scovell, President of RBR. He indicated that RBR products do in fact have some sort of RBR logo on each plate. He indicated that what I described to him were not RBR plates. I then called the owner of Botach, an individual known as "BK". He said that the first shipment was just a mistake and that if I sent them back I would have no problems, he would either credit me or send me RBR plates.

I received the second shipment Thursday. Guess what? They were not RBR plates either, but the same crappy plates with zero identifying marks, no codes, manufacture dates, nothing at all. I then called RBR again two more times. I have e-mailed them photos of what I received on two seperate shipments. The RBR guys have been great. I not only spoke with Mr. Scovell, but also Paul Fishnick and another gentleman by the first name Chris. All have been very keen to help me and stand behind RBR products and reputation. I will not speak for them, but I can say that they are not at all happy that one of their distributors has tried to get over on me. They also said they would sell me the plates directly. I wanted RBR products for a reason: they are the one of the best. I am convinced that Botach was hoping I was an air softer or some one who just did not know any better and who would never know the difference. I will not say why I want the plates, but I will say that lives could be in danger if sub-standard armor is relied upon in a moment of danger.

I have now received full credit on my Visa from Botach. But I have not heard back from RBR and I must assume that their offer to sell me the plates directly was just lip service. I am now in need of some plates. Anybody know the best place to get ceramic plates?


Let this be a lesson on Botach!

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:47:41 AM EDT
Don't feel bad they got me on a PRI gasbuster. I ordered one and they sent me a regular charging handle. Still havent got a refund.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:55:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By markm:
What's all this looney babble about ammoman being problematic?



Some nancy boy who obviously can't read the info posted on Eric's site, got bent outta shape over the fact his LC 308 was back-ordered.




That's exactly what I figured. That's why I didn't even bother clicking on that thread.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:43:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By markm:
What's all this looney babble about ammoman being problematic?



Some nancy boy who obviously can't read the info posted on Eric's site, got bent outta shape over the fact his LC 308 was back-ordered.




That's exactly what I figured. That's why I didn't even bother clicking on that thread.



no he got miffed because Ammoman charged his credit card for the 308 and didn't ship it.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:30:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

no he got miffed because Ammoman charged his credit card for the 308 and didn't ship it.



Yup. I saw the tread. Completely unreasonable. Put yourself in ammoman's position... Orders coming in from all different directions. This could happen.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:33:54 AM EDT
Why don't you call RBR back?
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:37:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

no he got miffed because Ammoman charged his credit card for the 308 and didn't ship it.



Yup. I saw the tread. Completely unreasonable. Put yourself in ammoman's position... Orders coming in from all different directions. This could happen.



Yes it can.

That's why we fall back on communication at that point.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:28:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By markm:

Yup. I saw the tread. Completely unreasonable. Put yourself in ammoman's position... Orders coming in from all different directions. This could happen.



Yes it can.

That's why we fall back on communication at that point.



Forget communication! Start a thread on ARF about it!
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:31:17 AM EDT
Botach =
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:58:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

no he got miffed because Ammoman charged his credit card for the 308 and didn't ship it.



Yup. I saw the tread. Completely unreasonable. Put yourself in ammoman's position... Orders coming in from all different directions. This could happen.



Yes it can.

That's why we fall back on communication at that point.



Even though this ain't the thread for it, the gentleman in question certainly tried to communicate, politely, asked a simple question, regarding money he'd already spent, and essentially got a big "Go Fuck Yourself" from AM.

Can it happen? Sure. Problems in business happens all the time, and Ammoman would have done himself better to have stowed the attitude and not acted like an egomanical infantile jackass over a simple inquiry. But, in my experience, that's the attitude I've always gotten from AM...acting like he's doing ME a favor by allowing me to spend money there, when frequently I can beat his price and his attitude elsewhere. But that's just my experience...everyone else is certainly welcome to buy from him. I have once, but won't anymore.

Y'all want to do business there, more power to you. But don' t insinuate that AM didn't play arole in the current shitstorm...he certainly did.

We now return you to the origianl point of this thread:

Sorry for the thread hijack...Botach is well known in this circle for being Bad Juju.

Hope you get your stuff, and your refund.

SG

Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:01:58 PM EDT
Botach appeared to have some good boot prices a while back, so I decided to drive over there. I didn't, figured if they were as bad as people say they wouldn't have the advertised stuff anyway, and if they weren't that bad, I'ld spend too much on goodies.

I get regularly convinced I made the right call.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:03:46 PM EDT
botach screwing up?

crazy talk
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 1:28:13 PM EDT
I really wish I had read this thread before ordering from them last Monday.

They charged my card ASAP. Then nothing..... I called and emailed several times, no returned comm.

The one time I got a human on the line, they did their "someone will call you back" deal.

I left a "give me a tracking number or a refund" voice mail yesterday and today (Saturday) I got a refund to my CC. So, they do work there, even on Saturday.

It's clear they have ZERO interest in conducting good business.

If you want the cheapest price and don't care weather you ever see product, go ahead and order... Otherwise NEVER deal with these "folks" (my up-bringing prevents me from saying what else I'm thinking).
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:11:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Botach =



+1
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