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Posted: 2/12/2006 5:45:56 PM EDT
I have a chance to buy a new Ford F250 SD, Crew cab, long bed, 4X4 with all the bells and whistles...at dealer invoice + tax tag title and prostitute fees.

I have to admit that I haven't bought new since 1997...so I'm kinda out of the loop on the best way to buy a new truck. It will be used as my business vehicle, with the tax benefits that go with it that.
What do ya'll think.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:52:21 PM EDT
You can almost never get a Toyota or Honda at dealer invoice.
The only question I have is: does the dealer get a rebate?
But yes, Dealer invoice is a good deal. They usually only give a deal like this if the vehicle in question is not a good mover. If it were, they would tell you that there are other people waiting to buy the same vehicle at sticker.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:53:53 PM EDT
I think you should buy yourself a honda civic and screw the tax benefits in favor of the GAS benefits. Just strap your work supplies to the roof.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:56:26 PM EDT
Check Edmunds for current rebates.I've got them for dealers invoice less rebates/promos.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:58:02 PM EDT
I suggest you find out about buying online, ive sold cars and will tell you that you can save thousands. If you want any pointers just IM me. Online always always saves over walk in. Im not picking on you but using the word " chance " sounds like you have a smooth sales guy. Ill help you find a good deal if you insist on buying new.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:58:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:53:44 PM EDT by treelander]

Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
You can almost never get a Toyota or Honda at dealer invoice.
The only question I have is: does the dealer get a rebate?
But yes, Dealer invoice is a good deal. They usually only give a deal like this if the vehicle in question is not a good mover. If it were, they would tell you that there are other people waiting to buy the same vehicle at sticker.



No I keep the rebate.

And HKTackDriver...think biodiesel or greasel. I don't want to change the subject, but I have the fuel situation worked out. Plus there is no way anything but a large truck will do.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:59:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:02:19 PM EDT by GotGuns]
No new car is a good deal. At the very least, get one that is used. Buying a new car is like throwing money away.

ETA dealers do NOT pay invoice for a car. No dealer in the world is going to sell you something for the same price they paid for it. They'd lose on shipping, time, and taxes. They get "dealer incentives" that are not included in the invoice price (i.e. discounts that they don't want to tell you about so they can say that they can't go any lower because they are already losing money on the deal ).
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:02:49 PM EDT
Go here and find out what the dealer really pays for the vehicle:
autos.yahoo.com/newcars/model/overview.html;_ylt=AstD_4pGLNJsSm.MonSQKDwEc78F?modelId=4379

See what MSRP is vs actual invoice.

See also here: www.edmunds.com/new/2006/ford/f250superduty/truck/large/index.html

Hope this helps.

Personally, I'd offer less than invoice. If you appear to be well prepared, and well informed, you'll have less hassle from dealers. I know I did when I shopped for a Subaru. I told the saleslady that I had an acquaintance who used to sell Subarus (true), and that I knew they didn't get kickbacks/rebates from the manufacturer like many other companies did. I said that I thought X amout over invoice was a fair profit, and I even had the Internet printouts to prove I knew what I was talking about.

Went well.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:04:01 PM EDT
I bought an 06 F-250 4X4 King Ranch Powerstroke in Sept.

Me and all of my buddies bought new trucks during the family pricing deal. Another friend is a Ford dealer and he told us that this is a real deal and it is as good as it gets.

IM me and I will tell you what I paid and you can decide if you're getting a deal.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:04:02 PM EDT
I sell new Hondas and used cars of all types. I can answer just about any question about the buying experience if you have a specific one.

Check: www.carsdirect.com and www.edumuds.com to get an idea of what you should pay, and what rebates are on right now.

Invoice FOR THE CAR/TRUCK itself is a good deal on almost any car. Just make sure you are talking only about the car price, and not figuring trade in, rebates, factory to dealer incentives, loyalty cash, etc into the picture.

Set the car price FIRST, then work out your trade separately, if you have one.

Also, make sure that any rebates, cash back, etc, come off the negotiated price, they don't help you get there. Otherwise you end up paying MSRP plus rebate, which is total screw job on an American car.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:04:11 PM EDT
Most of the time when they show you a dealer invoice, it is not the real invoice. The real invoice is not easy to read if you don't know the codes.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:08:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:09:10 PM EDT by ScaryGuy]
Just remember, dealer INVOICE does NOT mean Dealer COST...Sometimes it's a good price, sometimes it's bullshit.

Do your research at the aforementioned sites, and proceed accordingly.

Good Luck!

SG
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:08:45 PM EDT
Someone in another thread mentioned something about buying cars through sams club ... anyone know what the story is there?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:12:55 PM EDT


I got my 2003 2500 Dodge Hemi new for DI - rebates - $250. The DI I was shown was within $100 of the Edumunds invoice price.

I got in via fleet pricing through my wife's employer. Real nice way to go...This is what I want, this is the prenegotiated corporate price I get it for...
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:16:15 PM EDT
Check the price for that make/model/options on carsdirect.com
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:16:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Most of the time when they show you a dealer invoice, it is not the real invoice. The real invoice is not easy to read if you don't know the codes.



Invoice is a good deal.

I've been in the Automotive industry for 17 years, and I've never seen a "Fake" invoice. The customer is going to believe what they believe. The reason most people think that the invoice isn't real is because they have been quoted a price lower than invoice by another dealer. The Automotive industry is more complicated than most think. There is "Hold Back" ($$ to the dealer from the factory) in most cases but not all. It is not reflected on the invoice bottom line. So if invoice is $20,000.00 and the dealer is selling it to you for $19,800.00, then they are dipping into some of the $$ to get the sale. No harm, no foul, just selling cars.

Keep in mind the Dealer has to make a profit to stay in business so you can have some where to go to get "Warranty" work done on your car or truck. You also have to order your parts from someone, and you need to be able to call someone if you forgot how to program your radio.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:19:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:25:02 PM EDT by ScaryGuy]

Originally Posted By back40:

I got my 2003 2500 Dodge Hemi new for DI - rebates - $250. The DI I was shown was within $100 of the Edumunds invoice price.

I got in via fleet pricing through my wife's employer. Real nice way to go...This is what I want, this is the prenegotiated corporate price I get it for...



Yep.

I bought my Nissan through my brother who worked for one of the OEM equipment suppliers...I was eligible for actual dealer cost...which was well behind what's on the "invoice"

Best deal I ever got, and I didn't have to negotiate...the look on the salesman's face when I told him what I was going to pay for the car was priceless...he said "We couldn't possibly do that" and I whipped out my letter from Nissan with my Purchase Plan Price number on it and said, "Nissan says you can!" Fun times. In the end, he refused to do thesale, and we were helped by a very nice young lady who I am happy to say has sold several more cars on my reference. One of them to me.

I generally try to be as informed a customer as possible, which pisses the wrong kind of salesman off no end. If I end up being a pain in the ass, I gotta tell you, it don't bother me none to much.

The funny thing is , people ask me "What's a fair profit the dealer"? My answer? "Who gives a fuck?" I'm trying to purchase the car for the best price for ME...I ain't concerned about the dealership, anyomore'n they're concerned about not making every buck they can make off me.

The good ones just don't seem to mind. The bad ones? Well, when you look at it as entertainment, they make for a fun day. Sure, sport, waste 8 hours of your day for the same priceyou coulda given me 15 minutes in...no skin off my ass...Mr. I work on Commission. What FUN!

SG

SG
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:21:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GotGuns:
No new car is a good deal. At the very least, get one that is used. Buying a new car is like throwing money away.

ETA dealers do NOT pay invoice for a car. No dealer in the world is going to sell you something for the same price they paid for it. They'd lose on shipping, time, and taxes. They get "dealer incentives" that are not included in the invoice price (i.e. discounts that they don't want to tell you about so they can say that they can't go any lower because they are already losing money on the deal ).



Exactly. When I went with my mom to help her buy a new car, the dealer said he could get the price for dealer invoice. He even showed me the invoice himself. But when I confronted him with the same facts about he would have shut down long ago if he kept up that practice. He obviously stopped that line and kept coming down. Either way you are going to get screwed on a new vehicle. It's just a question of how bad you take it.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:23:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:27:31 PM EDT by Dracster]

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Most of the time when they show you a dealer invoice, it is not the real invoice. The real invoice is not easy to read if you don't know the codes.




He's right, it's usually a copy of the real invoice.

Treelander, If you can get a 2006 F250SD crew cab 4x4 diesel for invoice, jump on it. If it's a 2005, offer them less. Ask to see the invoice. Near the bottom there will be a row of prices. They should be labeled pretty self-explanatory. INvoice is the price they are offering you. A/Z plan is for Ford workers/retiirees. X-plan is for Ford vendors and friends of workers/retirees. Sometimes X-plan is lower than invoice but usually it's a couple hundred higher.

ETA - BTW, negotitiate the price as price + taxes and ACTUAL licensing fees. Dealer fees are a load of crap...nothing but dealer profit. If they tell you they can't exclude them, they are lying. As a dealership employee, I never paid the dealer fees.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:24:19 PM EDT

I did the car thing for awhile
as said before invoice is useally a pretty good deal you always hear about guys that get into the holdback money but that is very rare , and they are useally 1 of 3 things
1 full of shit
2 buying something odd that has been sitting on the lot and the dealer just wants it gone
3 buys multiple cars a year from that dealer and they cut hard deals for the guy
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:27:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By back40:

I got my 2003 2500 Dodge Hemi new for DI - rebates - $250. The DI I was shown was within $100 of the Edumunds invoice price.

I got in via fleet pricing through my wife's employer. Real nice way to go...This is what I want, this is the prenegotiated corporate price I get it for...



Which is what I'm doing...going through my employer. They buy a helluva lot of vehicles a year.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:28:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By treelander:

Originally Posted By back40:

I got my 2003 2500 Dodge Hemi new for DI - rebates - $250. The DI I was shown was within $100 of the Edumunds invoice price.

I got in via fleet pricing through my wife's employer. Real nice way to go...This is what I want, this is the prenegotiated corporate price I get it for...



Which is what I'm doing...going through my employer. They buy a helluva lot of vehicles a year.



Probably about as good a price as you'll get, then.

IMO.

SG
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:33:12 PM EDT
If you are Truly buying it for Everyday Use in your Business ,
you should Lease

I am Talking about a BUSINESS LEASE , entirely different than what happens
when Joe Shmo leases a Toyota.

www.fleet.ford.com/

Think 100% write off due to Depreciation
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:40:47 PM EDT
You know what's weird?

I'm going to the sites listed above, and adding all the features that are on my printout....and the "invoice price" is about 2 grand over the invoice price I have listed. And my final price is lower.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:44:59 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
Invoice is what the dealer pays for the auto... However, they get a percentage back from the factory when they sell the car (it's 3% in Toyota's case) and that is not factored into the invoice... ie: you buy a car listed @ $40k on the dealer invoice, they get $1200 back from the factory.
I got my '03 4Runner, one month after the new models were released for $400 under invoice. I did it via e-mail with the local dealer.
They also have to move a certain amount of cars or the Manf gives the dealership shit... So when gas is real high and nobody is buying SUVs, you can get really great deals. I was lucky in that the economy wasn't so good and $40k SUVs weren't flying off the shelves.

There is a really great web site that talks about buy a new car, dealing with dealers, and they have an Excel spreadsheet you can use to figure out what you should pay. Hopefully someone could provide you the url, because I don't remember it. It was very helpful.

Dealers don't really make a ton of money off the autos, it's the service and extras they make the $$$$ on.


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:22:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 7:27:04 PM EDT by shocktrp]
A good deal is defined by the best value for the money - can get the vehicle with the same options cheaper somewhere else?

Don't be fooled by the dealer telling you that invoice is dealer cost, because it isn't. Once they started showing people what dealer invoice was, they created a holdback fee www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/ to trick the consumer into thinking the dealer wasn't making any money off of them on the sale.

In addition to the holdback, dealer get incentives based on how many vehicles they sell each month - you might get a better deal at the end of the month if the dealer is short on his quota be a few vehicles - he could be getting a $10k bonus for selling XX vehicles, so, for example, even if he loses $2k on yours, he makes his quota and still pockets the last $8k from the bonus (but you have to finish the deal and take the vehicle off the lot prior to the first of the next month for it to count).

Dealers also don't want vehicles sitting on the lots - they usually have a net-30, net-60, or net-90 account with the corporate office. This rating is based on their sales ranking. This means that they get the vehicle for free for that amount of days (EX: a dealer with a net-30 account starts paying interest back to corporate for any vehicle on their lot for more than 30 days). Look at the dealer stock number of each particular vehicle - the lowest stock numbers are usually the vehicles that have been sitting around the longest - these are the ones the dealer wants to move first.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:17:10 PM EDT
We don't actually buy from the dealer. The deal is made long before we pick up the vehicle. I won't be haggling. All our purchases are over the net. The guys I work with get a call that their new vehicle is ready for pick up...they go sign a few papers and they are done.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:05:14 AM EDT
one last bump....thanks for all the replies, they've helped.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:49:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By treelander:
You know what's weird?

I'm going to the sites listed above, and adding all the features that are on my printout....and the "invoice price" is about 2 grand over the invoice price I have listed. And my final price is lower.




That's because those sites that show "invoice price" are mostly are crap. As a salesperson, what's really nice is when you show the invoice and it's a couple hundred over what Mr. and Mrs "informed consumer" found on the web. Getting called a liar, cheat and crook really make the day... all over a $200 error on a website.

If you work for a large company that buys many vehicles every year you fall into a different bracket than Joe Consumer. IIf the company does a large enough volume, they will deal with Ford directly and the dealer is out of the loop except for delivery. There are fleet incentices on certain vehicles that the regular public isn't eligible for. Also, for Ford, there is a Fleet invoice and a regular invoice. It depends on how the vehicle is sold. And woe unto the dealer that uses the wrong invoice price for the accountants of Ford shall rain down audits and disharmony unpon the office staff making everyone elses life even more of a living hell.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:55:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:

Dealers don't really make a ton of money off the autos, it's the service and extras they make the $$$$ on.




+1

The last data I saw from the NADA, 2003 or 2004 I think, put average dealer NET profit per new vehicle at $150-200. The smaller economical cars are actually net losers for most dealerships.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:35:21 AM EDT
Treelander,

I just bought an '06 F-350 SRW Crew Cab PSD. I used the X Plan, which is about invoice. It made the truck shopping experience very pleasent and efficient. No negotiating or anything. Pick out the truck, the options and there's your price. I used KBB to price out my vehicle and except for FDAF (regional advertising charge) and fuel, it was right on.

X Plan Pin numbers can be had from Ford employees. I got mine from a friend of a friend who works at the PSD plant in Louisville, KY. There's a forum on-line that explicitly is set up for requesting and exchanging X Plan Pin numbers; it's one of the PSDforums, don't recall which one. On The Diesel Stop.com forum, I had 2-3 people offer me Pin numbers, so they are not hard to get.

Good luck.

Merlin
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:45:36 AM EDT
Is the Consumer Reports vehicle price service worth checking out?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:13:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DBAR:

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Most of the time when they show you a dealer invoice, it is not the real invoice. The real invoice is not easy to read if you don't know the codes.



Invoice is a good deal.

I've been in the Automotive industry for 17 years, and I've never seen a "Fake" invoice. The customer is going to believe what they believe. The reason most people think that the invoice isn't real is because they have been quoted a price lower than invoice by another dealer. The Automotive industry is more complicated than most think. There is "Hold Back" ($$ to the dealer from the factory) in most cases but not all. It is not reflected on the invoice bottom line. So if invoice is $20,000.00 and the dealer is selling it to you for $19,800.00, then they are dipping into some of the $$ to get the sale. No harm, no foul, just selling cars.

Keep in mind the Dealer has to make a profit to stay in business so you can have some where to go to get "Warranty" work done on your car or truck. You also have to order your parts from someone, and you need to be able to call someone if you forgot how to program your radio.



I almost think that the pricing is so confusing that even the dealer doesn't know how much they're making on a car. OK, perhaps the GM or sales manager, but they want to keep the actual salesmen in the dark.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:30:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Merlin:
Treelander,

I just bought an '06 F-350 SRW Crew Cab PSD. I used the X Plan, which is about invoice. It made the truck shopping experience very pleasent and efficient. No negotiating or anything. Pick out the truck, the options and there's your price. I used KBB to price out my vehicle and except for FDAF (regional advertising charge) and fuel, it was right on.

X Plan Pin numbers can be had from Ford employees. I got mine from a friend of a friend who works at the PSD plant in Louisville, KY. There's a forum on-line that explicitly is set up for requesting and exchanging X Plan Pin numbers; it's one of the PSDforums, don't recall which one. On The Diesel Stop.com forum, I had 2-3 people offer me Pin numbers, so they are not hard to get.

Good luck.

Merlin



This X-plan deal is VERY beneficial to the employees. They get 4 numbers. Whan they give out their 4 numbers, Ford gives them $1000 and 4 more numbers.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:33:37 AM EDT
Trust me, you don't know what the dealers invoice is.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:56:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster:

Originally Posted By Merlin:
Treelander,

I just bought an '06 F-350 SRW Crew Cab PSD. I used the X Plan, which is about invoice. It made the truck shopping experience very pleasent and efficient. No negotiating or anything. Pick out the truck, the options and there's your price. I used KBB to price out my vehicle and except for FDAF (regional advertising charge) and fuel, it was right on.

X Plan Pin numbers can be had from Ford employees. I got mine from a friend of a friend who works at the PSD plant in Louisville, KY. There's a forum on-line that explicitly is set up for requesting and exchanging X Plan Pin numbers; it's one of the PSDforums, don't recall which one. On The Diesel Stop.com forum, I had 2-3 people offer me Pin numbers, so they are not hard to get.

Good luck.

Merlin



This X-plan deal is VERY beneficial to the employees. They get 4 numbers. Whan they give out their 4 numbers, Ford gives them $1000 and 4 more numbers.



I didn't know that. Good for them.

Also, only ask for an X Plan Pin number if you are going to use it. What they don't want is unused Pins given out without them being used. If I was a Ford employee, I'd understand why.

Merlin
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:52:57 PM EDT
If you really have a pre-negotiated dealer/distributor/manufacturer arrangement. go to the fleet manager or whoever is the administrator for the program. In almost all cases he gets you the best deal available, and you save your time and his time and the regular salesman you were dicking with. Nothing annoys a dealership more than getting well into the paperwork and you pull out your Special Deal Authorizations forms and saying "What about this?"

In almost all pre-arrangements there is stuff that is required for the agreement contract for a current year model. Last years models, you might be able to get a special deal, but ask first, they really want the hanger queens out, but don't want to screw around wasting time.
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