Quoted: I had an incident a few years ago that really pissed me off. Every year, the DNR puts out a snowmobile trail in my county. Property owners are reinbursed by the state to allow the trail thru their property. One stipulation is that it has to be so many feet from any houses, so the trail has had problems because of all the new houses going up around me. The money isn't much, but the snowmobilers like it, so I let them ride thru my woods. So, we get hit a real big snow and I go out with my snowblower to break open a path to my mailbox, which goes right across the trail. I'm just about done when here comes Mr. Ranger tooling up on his sled. He is out doing his thing, ticketing sledders for no registration, speeding and such. He comes up to me and says "What are you doing?". I tell him I'm trying to get a path to my mailbox. The snow is over my knees and I don't want to walk along the road to get to the mailbox. He then goes JBT on me and tells me how he is going to ticket me for destroying the trail and driving a non registered vehicle on the trail. I try to explain that a 36" path across the trail isn't "destroying" the trail and that the groomer will just pack this area down when it comes thru later on. He then pulls his ticket book out and asks for my license. As I am getting into my bibs to get my wallet out, I tell him "I hope you enjoy the trail this year, because next year it won't exist". He then gets real defensive and asks what I meant by that. I finally clue him in that if he wants to give me a ticket, that's fine. I'll see him in court and fight it. I might loose. Oh well. But I'll be dammed if I let this trail run thru my property anymore and if he looks around, my property is the only piece of property that will allow the snowmobiles thru for 5 miles in either way. Too many houses have built up and the local club that maintains the trail has told me many times that if it wasn't for my woods, they would be really screwed to put the trail thru. They will have to double back about 5 miles, jog west and figure out a new way to get north thru all the houses. So, I tell him to get on with it and give me the ticket and be on your way. He put his little book away, starts up the sled and drives away. Haven't seen him since. And I still blow a path to my mailbox every year it snows.

Very ballsey.  Kudos.
1.  Good job standing up for yourself.
2.  Good job providing access for law-abiding snowers.

Quoted: Chalk up another Douche bag officer going over board!All because some guy is taking his kids snowmobiling and get s on the road going to a trail. What a Fuc*&^@! JOke! Go find some real criminals you Jackass!

He couldnt do that! Real criminals are scary and might hurt him!!  Why go after them when he can go after soft law abiding citizens who pay their fines!  

Quoted: As I am getting into my bibs to get my wallet out, I tell him "I hope you enjoy the trail this year, because next year it won't exist".

Then they'll just use their new eminent domain powers to snatch your land for whatever they want. Thank you SCrOTUmS.

Thats a good way to get shot........

Quoted: When I moved here to TX I was told by the locals that the game warden could come and search my home whenever he feels like it to see if I had been poaching.  Not just one but several people have told me this.  My feelings are that if you can't articulate a reason well enough to get a warrant then you have no business coming into my home.  Anyone know if this is true?

Urban, or in this case, rural legend.

Although we can come in there w/o warrant  if you give us permission, which is where this legend usually stems from. Of course if exigent cirsumstances exist, no warrant is needed, either.

Also, certain businesses, texidermists in particular, give you permission to inspect the premisis by the fact they have a license (it's on the application).

I would like to hear both sides of this one, as the papers are notorious for getting about 40% of the facts. BTDT.

In our case, our powers to search "open fields" are written into our powers in the law. "Normal" police officers can search outside of buildings and curtilage, just like us, but it is under court decisions, not in their specific powers granted by the legislature.

We really have no more "power" than another officer, people just percieve it as so because our jobs take us off the road where cops don't normally go. I mean really, is a rabbit being killed illegally so much more important than an 8 year old being killed that we need more powers than "regular" police officers? PUH-LEEZE.


GR

Quoted: Quoted: I had an incident a few years ago that really pissed me off. Every year, the DNR puts out a snowmobile trail in my county. Property owners are reinbursed by the state to allow the trail thru their property. One stipulation is that it has to be so many feet from any houses, so the trail has had problems because of all the new houses going up around me. The money isn't much, but the snowmobilers like it, so I let them ride thru my woods. So, we get hit a real big snow and I go out with my snowblower to break open a path to my mailbox, which goes right across the trail. I'm just about done when here comes Mr. Ranger tooling up on his sled. He is out doing his thing, ticketing sledders for no registration, speeding and such. He comes up to me and says "What are you doing?". I tell him I'm trying to get a path to my mailbox. The snow is over my knees and I don't want to walk along the road to get to the mailbox. He then goes JBT on me and tells me how he is going to ticket me for destroying the trail and driving a non registered vehicle on the trail. I try to explain that a 36" path across the trail isn't "destroying" the trail and that the groomer will just pack this area down when it comes thru later on. He then pulls his ticket book out and asks for my license. As I am getting into my bibs to get my wallet out, I tell him "I hope you enjoy the trail this year, because next year it won't exist". He then gets real defensive and asks what I meant by that. I finally clue him in that if he wants to give me a ticket, that's fine. I'll see him in court and fight it. I might loose. Oh well. But I'll be dammed if I let this trail run thru my property anymore and if he looks around, my property is the only piece of property that will allow the snowmobiles thru for 5 miles in either way. Too many houses have built up and the local club that maintains the trail has told me many times that if it wasn't for my woods, they would be really screwed to put the trail thru. They will have to double back about 5 miles, jog west and figure out a new way to get north thru all the houses. So, I tell him to get on with it and give me the ticket and be on your way. He put his little book away, starts up the sled and drives away. Haven't seen him since. And I still blow a path to my mailbox every year it snows. Very ballsey.  Kudos. 1.  Good job standing up for yourself. 2.  Good job providing access for law-abiding snowers.

Ballsey huh?  I don't think so.  Its merely a matter of 'I am right and DNR is wrong'.

Quoted: Quoted: He'd have been proned out, disarmed and waited for competent cops to come and verify his identity if he came to my house. Now, if he came to the door and knocked he might get some respect. He says he did knock and the daughter opened the door.  If the husband did not break the law by riding down the street on a snowmobile this entire incident would not have happened.  But I guess it is always just easier to blame the cops.

You miss the point. I am talking about MY house not his. No daughter to let anyone in. I don't want to be surprised in my house by an armed man, and neither does he.

Quoted: I would of shot him if he came in my home

Yep after my dogs chewed him into little pieces I would have drawn down on his corpse.

tag

Quoted: Quoted: He'd have been proned out, disarmed and waited for competent cops to come and verify his identity if he came to my house. Now, if he came to the door and knocked he might get some respect. He says he did knock and the daughter opened the door.  If the husband did not break the law by riding down the street on a snowmobile this entire incident would not have happened.  But I guess it is always just easier to blame the cops.

I guess it's always easier to blame someone else for a cop doing something wrong.

Quoted: what about the policy of "hot pursuit"? wouldn't that be a justification for entering unannounced? well, not "justification" but a legit (barely) excuse?

The mystery rider wasn't there, the warden even admitted he went into the barn and saw the snowmobiles weren't there, so therefore the person he would be looking for wouldn't be at home.


No way you can call that 'hot pursuit' if you go to a place the person is not at!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would of have shot him if he came in my home ok Mr nazi, I would have shot him

Sorry! Just a pet peeve, and I couldn't stop myself!  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would of have shot him if he came in my home ok Mr nazi, I would have shot him Sorry! Just a pet peeve, and I couldn't stop myself!

"You saw the shot, there was no danger, so you took it!"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would of have shot him if he came in my home ok Mr nazi, I would have shot him Sorry! Just a pet peeve, and I couldn't stop myself!

but you didn't say anything to the guy who said loose

I have interacted with a few DNR wardens.  They are total Nazis here in WI and the ones I have interacted all came across as thinking they were God, and behaved with for-real reckless disregard for property rights, civil rights, and personal safety (one came zooming across the wrong lane of traffic and almost hit me head on coming out of a driveway in his haste to cut me off and stop me......so he could look at the deer we had tagged in the back, plain view, and conduct a vehicle search ("weapons check").  Invariably, they left each time WITHOUT finding anything to ticket me or my friends for.  

I have had multiple wardens tell me that they will go wherever the hell they want.  They regularly lurk on private property just to observe and try and catch people committing various petty infractions, such as leaning a weapon against a vehicle or laying it on the hood (uncased weapon in MV), whatever they can find.  I believe it's even written into WI state law, that a DNR warden can "go anywhere, public or private, in the course of their duties and to enforce the game laws of Wisconsin" or something like that.  

The supervisor in this story is going to have to do real damage control to avoid scrutiny of that law.  Not that it would make a difference......in WI DNR are God.

Quoted: Quoted: Busch308 posted: When I moved here to TX I was told by the locals that the game warden could come and search my home whenever he feels like it to see if I had been poaching. Not just one but several people have told me this. My feelings are that if you can't articulate a reason well enough to get a warrant then you have no business coming into my home. Anyone know if this is true? Bama-Shooter replied: Game wardens are given a much wider discreation than a regular LEO. If it makes you guys feel any better, I understand they have to replace Texas game wardens at a higher than normal rate.   Game Wardens in Texas need warrants just like everyone else to enter a residence. (there are exceptions, but none are game warden specific). As for the "higher than normal rate"   Game Warden is one of the most stable LE jobs going.  Pretty much the only openings come from retirements.

So, is the statement about having a much wider discretion true, or just old wives (hunters) tales?

TXL

Quoted: I have interacted with a few DNR wardens.  They are total Nazis here in WI and the ones I have interacted all came across as thinking they were God, and behaved with for-real reckless disregard for property rights, civil rights, and personal safety (one came zooming across the wrong lane of traffic and almost hit me head on coming out of a driveway in his haste to cut me off and stop me......so he could look at the deer we had tagged in the back, plain view, and conduct a vehicle search ("weapons check").  Invariably, they left each time WITHOUT finding anything to ticket me or my friends for.   I have had multiple wardens tell me that they will go wherever the hell they want.  They regularly lurk on private property just to observe and try and catch people committing various petty infractions, such as leaning a weapon against a vehicle or laying it on the hood (uncased weapon in MV), whatever they can find.  I believe it's even written into WI state law, that a DNR warden can "go anywhere, public or private, in the course of their duties and to enforce the game laws of Wisconsin" or something like that.   The supervisor in this story is going to have to do real damage control to avoid scrutiny of that law.  Not that it would make a difference......in WI DNR are God.

The odd thing is that according to what Glenn_R posted in the legal FAQ in the HTF leaning it agains the car or truck is not illegal but on the hood is, yet the brother of the guy I hunt wiht got a tickt for just that. leaning his rifle against the side of the truck. I wonder now if he'd have fought it if he'd have one

Quoted: Quoted: I have interacted with a few DNR wardens.  They are total Nazis here in WI and the ones I have interacted all came across as thinking they were God, and behaved with for-real reckless disregard for property rights, civil rights, and personal safety (one came zooming across the wrong lane of traffic and almost hit me head on coming out of a driveway in his haste to cut me off and stop me......so he could look at the deer we had tagged in the back, plain view, and conduct a vehicle search ("weapons check").  Invariably, they left each time WITHOUT finding anything to ticket me or my friends for.   I have had multiple wardens tell me that they will go wherever the hell they want.  They regularly lurk on private property just to observe and try and catch people committing various petty infractions, such as leaning a weapon against a vehicle or laying it on the hood (uncased weapon in MV), whatever they can find.  I believe it's even written into WI state law, that a DNR warden can "go anywhere, public or private, in the course of their duties and to enforce the game laws of Wisconsin" or something like that.   The supervisor in this story is going to have to do real damage control to avoid scrutiny of that law.  Not that it would make a difference......in WI DNR are God. The odd thing is that according to what Glenn_R posted in the legal FAQ in the HTF leaning it agains the car or truck is not illegal but on the hood is, yet the brother of the guy I hunt wiht got a tickt for just that. leaning his rifle against the side of the truck. I wonder now if he'd have fought it if he'd have one

Tell that to the warden!!!  Here is the answer you'll get: "How about I take your gun and your vehicle too, and we'll see you in court".  I think it's BS that they can confiscate all equipment involved in the offense.

"How about I take your gun and your vehicle too, and we'll see you in court".

"How about they never find your body?"  (Hypothetical, I would never threaten a person like that.)

Quoted: "How about I take your gun and your vehicle too, and we'll see you in court". "How about they never find your body?"  (Hypothetical, I would never threaten a person like that.)

S,S, & S!

Quoted: I think it's BS that they can confiscate all equipment involved in the offense.

They seizing it as evidence? Dont see the issue there

Quoted: Quoted: I think it's BS that they can confiscate all equipment involved in the offense. They seizing it as evidence? Dont see the issue there

You don't see an issue with confiscating a vehicle because someone leaned a rifle against it?

How long till you get your T?


TXL

What's up with these states having laws against guns leaning against the truck? That's just plain weird.


GR

Quoted: What's up with these states having laws against guns leaning against the truck? That's just plain weird. GR

It's a matter of "interpretation".  

The law says that in order to transport a firearm in WI, it has to be unloaded, and completely enclosed in a carrying case designed for that purpose.

So a warden sees a rifle laying on a tailgate.  Decides that all the person has to do is get in and drive and he has an unlawfully transported firearm.  Or he feels that the vehicle was operated like that to that location.

Goes to court, judge upholds it because "the warden made a judgement call, he felt that either the weapon was already illegally transported, or the potential existed for it to happen, and it's a bad idea anyway".  It began as a way to combat "road hunters".  Now you have precedent, and never forget, the LEO/Warden always gets the benefit of the doubt.  Even if the cite or charge may not be really applicable, you are still likely to be convicted simply because the LEO/Warden had to feel you were up to no good somehow.

ETAI have heard of guys getting popped for DUI this way.  The get in their car, and go to sleep because they are too drunk to drive.  We used to say that if you put the kets on the dash or under the seat, then you wouldn't get a ticket.  Wrong.  I know a guy who got hit with DUI that way.  The presumption was that eventually the sleeping drunk would drive away still under the influence.

Anyway......

Now it's only another step away to applying it to a rifle leaning against a vehicle.  Add one JBT to the mix, and boom, your rifle and truck are confiscated for leaning the rifle against the truck!!!  I believe it was photoman who saw someone get busted for it.  No confiscation though.  Remember, confiscation is at the officer's discretion.  It's a great tool, but also a great club to wield when you want to f*** with somebody for nothing.

FWIW, most of the good old boys I have talked to, are only one step away from SSS in their minds when it comes to this kind of behavior from DNR wardens, specifically because of this kind of shit.  But they never do it......law abiding people and all.  But sooner or later......

Yep, I would have shot him if he simply walked into my home like that.