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So, as long as he submits a little, he demonstrates enough devotion to freedom to pass muster? Spare us, Lord. |
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You know... thats pretty rediculous right there... you want children to disregard whatever parents, teachers, and other persons of authority say to them? Let kids just rationalize it out for themselves? You're fucking joking right? Yeah, children definitely have more intelligence than their parents. Just disregard what they say and think for yourself. Unreal. |
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Well, let me explain it this way. I did my time in the military serving my country. I risked my life in foreign bars and whorehouses so my fellow citizens could enjoy the fruits of America. One of the benefits of this is that I no longer have to publicly demonstrate my patriotism to anyone. If I want to say it, I will say it. If I don't want to say it, then everyone can file their objections after they get back from their own tour of duty in some foreign country. I served to protect the ideals of America -- foremost of which is that people are free to run their lives as they see fit. Freedom is what it is about and freedom doesn't really mean shit unless it applies to the things I don't necessarily agree with. I have seen surveys in the past where they asked people to sign the Bill of Rights. Typically, about half the people refuse to sign because they think it is subversive. They believe that "free speech" really only applies to speech that they agree with. How sad. |
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What part of the First Amendment is unclear to you? |
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NOT EVEN CLOSE As I stated a few posts above, I do not think he shold be protesting during the pledge, IMO that is what he is doing, protesting I don't care what his beliefs are, he is not REQUIRED to be anywhere the pledge is being said I don't go to an opera and hum 70's tunes, to me, that is on par to what he is doing......... |
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You don't have a right to have important events go your way. If that spoils an event for you...(speechless) I'll admit that if he wore white after labor day that would fuckin' ruin my day and it would come to fisticuffs. I get a bit self-righteous, but I am just sensitive about that. |
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Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country. |
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Do you think this is some big life issue where the kid is in serious danger of harming society if he doesn't follow their directions? |
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+1 |
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Really. Where does she get off fucking with their religious beliefs in any way, shape, or form? |
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I guess I am out of my league trying to explain socialization and respect |
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We have to just agree to disagree. There is no way to reach a middle ground here
One thing threads like this clearly illustrate is that we'll forever remain divided in this country. United we stand, divided we fall. |
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That's why I spent a few years in the military protecting your First Amendment right to be absolutely, completely, 100 percent wrong about everything. |
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You tell me where it says ANYTHING about GIVING a punk ass loser $32,000 for getting his feelings hurt? THIS IS BULLSHIT! First Amendment my ass. So those of you that support this are telling me that, just because the First Amendment says that "CONGRESS shall make no law forcing you to shut up, has ANYTHING to do with PAYING some punk because he got his feelings got hurt?" I don't care if some dumbasses on a jury decided to send a message, the money he got was WRONG! Anybody that thinks it's ok for the taxpayers to foot the bill because some dick head teacher got irrate because some jackass doesn't want to support the country that he is living in, being feed in, being housed in, enjoying freedom in because his family hasn't SHOWED him what OTHER people have done for him and instilled a little respect is a dumb ass! |
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Well, as I can attest from my own personal experiences, occasionally there is a school district that needs a real wake-up call about the law. Unless you bite them, they just don't react like they should. Sad to say, but true. |
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Jeez another one. If you could read you'd realize the school settled out of court, no juries were sending any messages. Moreover, taxpayers foot the bill when the police violate people's rights too, but people don't seem upset about that. |
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There is a difference between being grateful and being forced to say a silly oath.
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1) No child should be encouraged to say a pledge or oath which they do not understand. No one in the school system ever made an attempt to teach us what it meant. 2) Oath, pledge, affirmation; what is the big difference? 3) I personally am disgusted by our governments attempt to get children to pledge their allegiance to the government. It smacks of brainwashing. I also believe that citizens should not pledge allegiance to a government at all, because governments are corruptible and subject to change. |
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Did she, or did she not, coerce them into saying the pledge against their religious beliefs? Your mother has every right to feel that they should give thanks. But it isn't up to her to dictate how they do it. She should have been up for discipline for it. |
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I distinctly remember that, as a child, I was tricked and/or coerced into pledging a legion to the flag of the United States. Do you have any idea what that entails? A legion was 5000-6000 men, fully equipped. And in modern terms, that wouldn't just be infantry; it would include armor and air cavalry units. Do you have any idea what that would cost? We're talking at least hundreds of millions or billions of dollars.
Pledge of Allegiance. I hate it. I will not say it. I don't even like to be in the same room with it. It gives me the screaming willies. And it's not because of the "under God" part that seems to get liberal panties in such a bunch. That's about the only part of it that I find inoffensive. Let's look at exactly what this abomination is. "I pledge allegiance to the flag." Idolatry, pure and simple. Can you imagine, pledging allegiance to a flag? A piece of cloth? Or even to the Republic for which it stands (that hasn't existed since 1865, but that's a different rant)? What would God say if he knew that his people were doing such things? But again I get ahead of myself. It's presumptuous to presume that these are God's people, much as they'd like to think they are. And what about this "one nation... indivisible" stuff? Says who? Abraham Lincoln? Certainly not the authors or ratifiers of the Constitution. When New York and Virginia (and possibly others) ratified the Constitution, it was with the express reservation that the Union could be dissolved if the States decided that it no longer suited them to remain in the partnership. It seems to me that once upon a time, a group of true patriots observed that "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." This 'indivisible' nonsense is just a ratification of Mr. Lincoln's war against the founding principles of the Republic. And then there's "with liberty and justice for all." Irony? Comic relief? I dunno. A worthy goal? Maybe. The truth? Yeah, right. So why the hell is the Pledge so revered? Did George Washington or Thomas Jefferson say the pledge? Hell no. They would have choked on it. George because it's blasphemous and Tom because it's statist. It was a turn-of-the-century state-worshiping socialist thing. It is a prayer to the gods of big government and centralization. It is an offense to all that is true and good and right. |
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So it is about money?
OK, whatever. Others see it differently.
You mean, the freedom to refuse the oath if it is against your religion?
I take that to mean something like recognizing that both me and the guy who disagrees with me are on the same side. The reason we are on the same side is because we both protect the other's right to express himself as he sees fit.
Interesting. You defend the right to disagree -- just not in schools. OK, are we missing something here? |
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Publics schools, the same ones that fly the US flag in front, although I would not expect some private school like a Nation of Islam school to pledge or sing the national anthem. And you are not forcing kids, you are teaching them, just as you would civics, laws, history etc. You say they are coerced? Do you think they are coerced to sit in their chairs in class or behave in the lunchroom? When you were in the military and Colors was sounded did you feel coerced to salute? What happens when you turn 18 and don't sign up for selective service? Your bennies are cut, no gov't jobs, etc. When your nation calls you up in a national emergency like a draft or the reserves are mobilized do you feel coerced? the keyword here is obligation.
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Coming from someone who bragged about acting like an ass clown during the National Anthem, I would expect nothing less from you. People like you are the disgrace. |
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freedom is not a relative term. one is either free or is not.
coercing a pledge is not freedom. period. it is obeisance, and obeisance is the antithesis of freedom. dismantle with care the platform upon which you are standing. [ETA: this really pisses me off. when i recite the pledge, or sing the national anthem, i do so because i truly mean it. if someone does not truly, in their bones, mean it, i would prefer that they keep their fucking mouth shut rather than lie about it. if you do not feel the same way, you do not value truth.] |
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As what my Hatian friend would say "ONLY AMERICA" but then I will always correct him to say "Only in America"
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My country is going to hell...
Washington DC 1982... My elementry school teacher caught one of the students not reciting the pledge. He was forced to stand in front of the class and sing the Star Spangled Banner... Not one damned thing the little shit could do about it... |
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Let me get to the ROOT of why I posted this. This PUNK got $32,000 for getting his FEELINGS hurt! And the TAXPAYERS foot the bill! There is the ROOT problem.
Our legal system has turned in to a profit center for assholes! And the lawyers, stupid parents, stupid school officials, stupid government officials, low life money grubbers are to blame. And it's only going to get WORSE! Feel like you pay enough taxes? Well, we haven't even started yet. ALL PRODUCTS cost more because of LAWYERS and OUTRAGEOUS awards given to a LOT of people who shouldn't even get a dime. There are legitiment lawsuits and legitiment awards for a large amount of money. But thanks to our CURRENT legal system, any asshole can sue ANYBODY for ANYTHING and to make it less financially painful, people settle out of court and WE...let me say that again...WE all pay for it. If you don't want to say the pledge of aligence because you don't feel it's right based on religious reasons or just because it makes you freak out...BIG DEAL. Yeah, deep down you might be unpatriotic and should live somewhere else, OR maybe you just have legitiment issues with it. BUT TO GET MONEY BECAUSE YOUR FEELINGS ARE HURT??? Give me a break! If that were the case, I should be a millionaire from all the shit thrown at me when I was a kid. Should I get money for some insult or because some dick head teacher doesn't understand the meaning of Freedom? This country has become a pathetic version of Freedom and stupidity has taken over. Why the super huge letters? Because people only see what they want and I want my point to be clear. |
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Let me guess. You think the Brown Shirts ought to enforce this. |
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WTF are you talking about? I stand and place my hand over my heart for the national anthem. |
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Why they hell did the punk get awarded money? WTF does money have to do with anything that happened. I just don't get it.
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Public schools aren't free. They're paid for with our tax dollars. And in case you haven't noticed, those taxes aren't voluntary. |
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