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Posted: 1/21/2006 6:49:08 AM EDT
And here I thought all union members made $65+ per hour.
hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UNION_MEMBERSHIP?SITE=PAPOT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-01-21-05-55-11

Long-Declining Union Membership Levels Off

By WILL LESTER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Long-declining union membership leveled off last year at 12.5 percent of the work force, the Labor Department said Friday in a report labor leaders called encouraging.

Union membership was about a third of the work force a half-century ago, and was one in five, 20 percent, in 1983, when the Labor Department started keeping such data.

The department said 15.7 million workers were union members in 2005. Blacks were more likely than whites, Hispanics or Asian workers to be members of a union. Men were more likely than women to be in unions and those in the public sector were four times as likely as those in the private sector to be in unions.

Full-time workers who were union members had median weekly earnings of $801, compared with a median weekly income of $622 for workers who were not in unions.

"The good news is that the annual hemorrhaging of union membership slowed last year," said Teamsters' President James P. Hoffa. "And that's not really good news. A worker's right to join a union has been continually eroded by a corporate takeover of our government."

The difficulties facing labor contributed to a split between the AFL-CIO, an umbrella federation of more than 50 unions, and about a half dozen unions including the Teamsters, who wanted to focus more resources on building membership.

AFL-CIO President John Sweeney cited the leveling off of union membership as good news for a movement that has faced troubles.

"In a political climate that's hostile to worker's rights," Sweeney said, "these numbers illustrate the extraordinary will of workers to gain a voice on the job despite enormous obstacles."

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:50:33 AM EDT
Unions need die to a horrible death.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:53:00 AM EDT
doesn't say if it's just private union membership or public & private union membership.

Private union membership is dying while public employee unions keep growing along with the government,
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:53:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 6:53:43 AM EDT by TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted By Dance:

Full-time workers who were union members had median weekly earnings of $801, compared with a median weekly income of $622 for workers who were not in unions.




but the take home pay is the same after dues, gotta get Mr. Hoffa a new bentley!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:55:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:58:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.



Yep - the trade union guys are doing jobs that require skills and hard work, and most of them realize the health of the employer equals the health of their jobs.

The unskilled / lowskilled union workers are merely marking the days until their jobs are moved oversease. You can't be paid $20 an hour for a job that that requires $10 an hour worth of skill and expect to have your job forever.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:00:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By Dance:

Full-time workers who were union members had median weekly earnings of $801, compared with a median weekly income of $622 for workers who were not in unions.




but the take home pay is the same after dues, gotta get Mr. Hoffa a new bentley!

spoken like someone who has never paid union dues ..
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:01:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggyD:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By Dance:

Full-time workers who were union members had median weekly earnings of $801, compared with a median weekly income of $622 for workers who were not in unions.




but the take home pay is the same after dues, gotta get Mr. Hoffa a new bentley!

spoken like someone who has never paid union dues ..



I live in a state where I am free from that crap. I'm sorry, but I'm not paying anyone for the privlege of working somewhere
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:01:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.

Why do import car makers ,keep opening union assembly plants here ??????makes you wonder??
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:04:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:07:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By BiggyD:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By Dance:

Full-time workers who were union members had median weekly earnings of $801, compared with a median weekly income of $622 for workers who were not in unions.




but the take home pay is the same after dues, gotta get Mr. Hoffa a new bentley!

spoken like someone who has never paid union dues ..



I live in a state where I am free from that crap. I'm sorry, but I'm not paying anyone for the privlege of working somewhere

my dues are about 7 bucks a week ...25 and out(any age) pension ,average about 98% on med. coverage ..not bad for 7 bucks..and no one is forced ,There are jobs in my field that are non union ,I've done them..
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:09:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggyD:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.

Why do import car makers ,keep opening union assembly plants here ??????makes you wonder??



uh, which ones? Not toyota.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:10:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By BiggyD:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.

Why do import car makers ,keep opening union assembly plants here ??????makes you wonder??



uh, which ones? Not toyota.



is the South Carolina BMW plant union?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:12:10 AM EDT
There are toyota/GM joint plants that are union ...honda plants that are union ...mazda(now ford)..that are union ...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:12:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:17:20 AM EDT by Backstop]

Originally Posted By BiggyD:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.

Why do import car makers ,keep opening union assembly plants here ??????makes you wonder??



Yep.

Do the research.

Toyota pays its US workers almost exactly the same wages/benefits as the Union US auto worker.

Toyota also mandates that only Union workers will build their plants.

How does Toyota do it?

They're more efficient. WAY more efficient.

I'm working at the Toyota plant here, and have been working with an electrical engineer from Detroit by way of Japan. This guy works from 0630 until 1800 7 days a week - this is his normal schedule. He CONSTANTLY checks on how things are going. And I don't mean walking around - he gets down on his hands and knees, looks under things, climbs ladders to ensure beam clamps are tight, etc.

The Japanese surely understand the concept of quality.

But I'll keep driving my American vehicles, thank you very much.

You know...the ones made by American workers who are too stupid to read, difficult to train, etc. ** This is in reference to a poster who misrepresented US auto workers by selectively quoted an auto manuf official - and almost resulted in my getting my account locked.**
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:12:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:15:20 AM EDT by dalesimpson]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.



TBK thank you for seeing that our trade unions are worthwhile . I think I deserve to make the kind of money that I do in my job. I went to school for 5 years, had 10,000 hours of on the job training and took hundreds of hours of night classes to get to where I am now. Although I am not getting rich by any means I feel that I am paid fairly. As for the factory unions I think that the UAW is the classic example of "semi-skilled" workers getting paid more than they deserve.
In my local if the IBEW we aren't bleeding the contractors dry. We don't get holiday pay, vacation pay, of any of the other "benefits" that most of our non-union counterparts get. We have a very symbiotic relationship with the contractors, and they make good money from what we do. We are professionals and get paid like professionals, but we also work like professionals.
As for union dues, we pay $76.86/quarter plus 4% of our net pay.


falaholic1, as for unions needing to die a horrible death... you need to think before you make blanket statements like that.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:14:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggyD:
Why do import car makers ,keep opening union assembly plants here ??????makes you wonder??



Name them!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:15:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
In my local if the IBEW we aren't bleeding the contractors dry. We don't get holiday pay, vacation pay, of any of the other "benefits" that most of our non-union counterparts get. We have a very symbiotic relationship with the contractors, and they make good money from what we do. We are professionals and get paid like professionals, but we also work like professionals.



Pretty much the same here.

We even have a 'no strike' clause in our contract.

And the contractors use the Books as a manpower pool - they don't like you, you get moved to a job that's finishing up, then RIF'd.

We have plenty of work down here - IBEW Local 60 San Antonio - if you're so inclined. Plenty.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:15:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By BiggyD:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.

Why do import car makers ,keep opening union assembly plants here ??????makes you wonder??



uh, which ones? Not toyota.



is the South Carolina BMW plant union?

Don't know I don't haul cars out of there ..
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:16:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
As the government continues to bloat it will cause a leveling off--the majority of union members work for the government.

The worthwhile unions (trade unions) are probably fairly stable and the unions in factories are probably the single greatest cause of moving factory jobs overseas.




Don't forget that those union govt. workers include: LEO , Fire & EMT , Mass Transit ,
Water and Sanitation , Food Inspection , etc. , even the people who collect your local taxes
and make sure that bridge you drive over everyday doesn't fall down.

Sort of essential in a civilized world.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:17:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:20:01 AM EDT
I think we can all agree that factory workers are on the high side .....However ,factory work also SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKSS,and I doubt you could get people to do it for 10 buchs an hour /with no benefits ...as some of you seem to think...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:21:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Willing to bet that Toyotas Union workers have a whole different set of rules than what UAW used to destroy the big 3.



As far as I've read, Toyota factory workers are NOT Union - across the US.

The factory here in SA will be NON Union.

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:22:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By Dance:

Full-time workers who were union members had median weekly earnings of $801, compared with a median weekly income of $622 for workers who were not in unions.




but the take home pay is the same after dues, gotta get Mr. Hoffa a new bentley!



Not really true, I know there are a lot of union haters out there but look at what my Teamster local is up against. New contract comming up in Feb.

1. large increase in insurance costs.
2. Alternate work week - This is so they can have people with regular shifts on weekends and not pay OT.
3. Small increase in pension, not enough to retire on.

We make decent money (and pay 2 1/2 hours of our pay in duse per month), but everyone in my company should be pissed wether you're an hourly union employee of salaried non-union employee. My company has $$billions$$ in long term contracts. Profits and stocks have been rising including a split in stocks this year. The company is in it's best shape in decades. Our CEO made $88 million in compensation from his salary, stock options and profits from his holding of company stock in 2004. There is no reason for our union members to take a cut in benefits or overtime.

1. THIS IS CORPORATE GREED!!!

2. THERE NEEDS TO BE A LIMIT ON EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION!!

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:24:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:29:08 AM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
and the last time you ran a multi-billion dollar company was when?

this "corporate greed" bs gets annoying. he gets paid that much because he can do a job that very few can. if the company goes down, he takes the blame.

how about you go learn for yourself instead of reiterating what your union kommisar instructs you to.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:25:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:25:48 AM EDT by Backstop]

Originally Posted By aLongshot:
1. THIS IS CORPORATE GREED!!!

2. THERE NEEDS TO BE A LIMIT ON EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION!!




No...people should be able to fight and earn as much as possible.

Corporations should hire attorneys, and fight the Union to keep as much of their money as possible.

Just as workers should join Unions, hire attorneys, and fight to keep as much of the money they made for their employers as possible.

I'm all about fighting for what you want.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:25:34 AM EDT
Unions are a total joke. The only reason they are still in existence is b/c the democratic party would die without them.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:25:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Backstop:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Willing to bet that Toyotas Union workers have a whole different set of rules than what UAW used to destroy the big 3.



As far as I've read, Toyota factory workers are NOT Union - across the US.

The factory here in SA will be NON Union.


Check the new united motor plant in Fremont ,CA ....toyota/gm...............It's been a dozen or so years since I've been there ...but I doubt it has changed much ,unless it closed due to overinflated union wages ........If you want to know if your local plant is union or not ,they will have a big entering NAFTA zone sign at the entrance ..
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:46:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:51:58 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
and the last time you ran a multi-billion dollar company was when?

this "corporate greed" bs gets annoying. he gets paid that much because he can do a job that very few can. if the company goes down, he takes the blame.

how about you go learn for yourself instead of reiterating what your union kommisar instructs you to.



I'm usually pretty anti-union, particularly factory unions. However I can tell you that at my company, the CEO ran the company into the ground and when we got bought he slid out with a nice fat severance of over $100 million, plus full health care for life and a pension that pays every year what most folks don't make in a life time. The CEO rarely gets screwed (or blamed). Exceptions are usually where the CEO was downright criminal (Worldcom, Enron, etc).

I have 4 electronics techs that work for me, and they recently were pretty much forced into the CWA. Actually, it isn't required that they join the union, but after watching the 20 other techs that got RIF'd over the last 5 years (in our city alone), they went for it. It turned out to be pretty beneficial for them, and the company is now starting to turn around and become somewhat profitable again.

All the RIF'd jobs are now performed by underpaid contractors with no benefits at all (although the company pays their employer a lot more than they would have cost as employees before in terms of the hourly rate). The company gains the advantage of not having to worry about their pensions or any other benefits, and not having to plan for growth as carefully since they can simply stop contracting work on a day's notice without having to concern themselves about the security of their contractors jobs.

Some of them are guys that used to be employees (before the union came in). Pretty much sucks for them. The rest of us are REALLY lucky to have held on to our jobs. All due (IMO) to piss poor management at the highest levels.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:48:31 AM EDT
Reminds me of a good Ann Coulter column a while back... I don't have it handy, but she documented that the big unions (AFL-CIO, Teamsters, etc IIRC) at the political level seemed to be more interested in environmental protection, abortion, and gay marriage than in keeping and generating more blue-collar jobs in America. Illustrates pretty well what the big unions have become.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:51:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aLongshot:

1. THIS IS CORPORATE GREED!!!

2. THERE NEEDS TO BE A LIMIT ON EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION!!




Thanks mr stalin.

If a union worker screws up, a product or order may be ruined. But they likely will still have a job.

If a CEO screws up, the company could go out of business, resulting in NO ONE having a job.

They get paid because of the importance of the work they do and the limited number of people that can do it well.

You want to be paid more? Get a more important job that fewer people can do well.

Until then, quit complaining, comrade.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:27:37 AM EDT
We just need to get the Right to Work movement back up and running. You'd be amazed how many states still don't have right to work laws.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 9:02:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
We just need to get the Right to Work movement back up and running. You'd be amazed how many states still don't have right to work laws.

Right to work states still require prevailing wages ,so how does that figure into most of these "union workers need to make less money" comments??
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:11:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By aLongshot:

1. THIS IS CORPORATE GREED!!!

2. THERE NEEDS TO BE A LIMIT ON EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION!!




Thanks mr stalin.

If a union worker screws up, a product or order may be ruined. But they likely will still have a job.

If a CEO screws up, the company could go out of business, resulting in NO ONE having a job.

They get paid because of the importance of the work they do and the limited number of people that can do it well.

You want to be paid more? Get a more important job that fewer people can do well.

Until then, quit complaining, comrade.



I am a machinist in the areospace industry. I do specialized work that is not normally done by general machinists. If I screw up the aircraft goes down and people die. If the CEO screws up he may have his contract bought out by the BOD and he leaves with a shitload of cash as a settlement.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:13:47 PM EDT
well then if you're so concerned about money then start your own specialized machine shop and build it into a multi billion dollar company then you can make the big bucks.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:15:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 12:39:54 PM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By aLongshot:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By aLongshot:

1. THIS IS CORPORATE GREED!!!

2. THERE NEEDS TO BE A LIMIT ON EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION!!




Thanks mr stalin.

If a union worker screws up, a product or order may be ruined. But they likely will still have a job.

If a CEO screws up, the company could go out of business, resulting in NO ONE having a job.

They get paid because of the importance of the work they do and the limited number of people that can do it well.

You want to be paid more? Get a more important job that fewer people can do well.

Until then, quit complaining, comrade.



I am a machinist in the areospace industry. I do specialized work that is not normally done by general machinists. If I screw up the aircraft goes down and people die. If the CEO screws up he may have his contract bought out by the BOD and he leaves with a shitload of cash as a settlement.



Then it looks like you chose the wrong career.

Not the CEO's fault, though.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:34:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
and the last time you ran a multi-billion dollar company was when?

this "corporate greed" bs gets annoying. he gets paid that much because he can do a job that very few can. if the company goes down, he takes the blame.

how about you go learn for yourself instead of reiterating what your union kommisar instructs you to.



They can't.
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