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Posted: 1/20/2006 2:20:46 PM EDT
My friend was given one by a family member. It is a 30.06 model M1917 Enfield (Winchester), the counterpart of the 1903 Springfield in the U.S. Army of WWI. IIRC the M1917 was actually issued in greater numbers by the Army than the Springfield.
At any rate, my buddy wants to "restore" it to original military configuration. My question is: what finish is proper for them as issued? Parkerizing, blueing, what?
Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:22:41 PM EDT
Blued would be the proper finish on the metal. Most that I have seen had a dull blue rather than a high polish. Stock should only have boiled Linseed oil on it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:25:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By P08:
Blued would be the proper finish on the metal. Most that I have seen had a dull blue rather than a high polish. Stock should only have boiled Linseed oil on it.



Thanks for the info.

Would a "matte black" finish be close to what you're referring to?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:38:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 2:59:19 PM EDT by pv74]
Gimme a minute here...

Let me come up with some links for you.

I own the P14 (.303 British) and the 1917...
Both are Eddystones.

The 1917 has a very STRONG action. I have seen it used for cartridges up to .416 Rigdy...and yes, I got to shoot it


Ah...here is a little background info....


The United States Rifle, Caliber .30, M1917, developed at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Middlesex.

When the United States prepared for WWI, there were shortages of the m1903 Springfield. The '03 manufacturing was not able to keep up with U.S. demand for armaments.

The U.S. companies of Remington, Winchester, and the Remington-Eddystone Arsenal, had just completed contracts for m1914 Enfields, for England and were able to retool the existing manufacturing facilities to produce the m1914 in 30-06. Thus the m1917 was born.

Phased out at as the primary U.S. battle rifle the end of WWI and replaced by the m1903. Still carried in service during WWII and distributed to allies post WWII.

www.surplusrifle.com/m1917/index.asp

Now...this is the forum that you should go to for info on your rifle.

Their are a number of serious collectors on this board that can point you in the right direction and give you the right information on your rifle.

www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/1917enfield/1917.pl?

Oh...

And when you get your rifle all fixed up find a set of parker hale PH5B sights
You will pay over $100 for a set, but they are worth every penny...
IM me if you are interested, and I can point you to a guy who MAY be able to get you a set.
He is a well known dealer and occasionally has one or two.

Mark my words...this target sight requires no modifications to your gun and makes a P14 or an M1917 into a real tack driver... Parker Hale made these in England. They are no longer manufactured and are becoming a real hard to find collector's item...


cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7209037231&category=36258

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:40:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 2:44:04 PM EDT by hughjafj]
The bolt should be in the white. The rest of the metal should be a deep black shiny bluing.
Wood finish was boiled linsed oil/ tung oil mix.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:51:05 PM EDT
" The bolt should be blued or parked NOT IN THE WHITE ! "

If the rifle is worth restoring or not depends on how much Bubbafication has happened to it .
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:54:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 5:56:28 PM EDT by mjohn3006]



My Garand and my sporterized 1917.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:58:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 6:00:49 PM EDT by Max_Mike]
A lot of people will call it heresy but IMO as a military rifle the 1917 is a better rifle than the 1903.

I have seen parkerized 1917s I suppose they were parked during a rebuild.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:42:32 PM EDT
I believe most of the M1917s in US govt hands at the start of WW2 were subjected to an arsenal rebuild,and they were parkerized at that time. Original finish blued ones are rare. Mine is a parkerized Eddystone, with WW2-era Ordinance and inspectors stamps on the stock.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:42:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/album03/DSCF0618.sized.jpg
nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/album03/DSCF0619.sized.jpg

My Garand and my sporterized 1917.





some idiot did that to the Eddystone i have too.

it is serial # 944.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:48:02 PM EDT
It is the orginial barrel? What kind of finish does it currently have? Look by the front sight there should be an ordanance stamp with the date the barrel was made under that, under the date should be the initals of the manfacturer, Many of these rifles were rebuilt during WWII. If the barrel is a WWII vintage, you've got a rebuild, it will also be parked. (so will the receiver, triggerguard) The orginial finish was a dull blue both on the barrel and on the receiver, triggerguard. (not sure about the bolt) IF it is a rebuild, Take the action out of the stock and check the front receiver ring for cracks, Some of these receivers cracked when being rebarreled during rebuild,(I believe this applies to Eddystones) I suspect most never got out of the armory and I also suspect a very few ever cracked in the first place, but, it is a remote possibilty, I'd check anyway. If on the other hand it is all orginial, It is a Winchester, and seeing how ther are going to fold up shop soon, your friend might have a soon to be valuable rifle,well worth the effort of restoring. I'd research this rifle carefully, and take a inventory of what parts were/are orginial and see if you're missing anything,and try to find orginial replacements. there alot of chinese fake parts being sold so be carefull
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 6:48:36 PM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/album03/DSCF0618.sized.jpg
nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/album03/DSCF0619.sized.jpg

My Garand and my sporterized 1917.





some idiot did that to the Eddystone i have too.

it is serial # 944.



It was my first gun.
It was like that when I bought it.

But I do love it.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:25:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:

The 1917 has a very STRONG action. I have seen it used for cartridges up to .416 Rigdy...and yes, I got to shoot it




I have seen one in .460 Wby Mag.. It holds 2 in the mag and one in the pipe..
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:43:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 10:49:29 PM EDT by pv74]

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Originally Posted By pv74:

The 1917 has a very STRONG action. I have seen it used for cartridges up to .416 Rigdy...and yes, I got to shoot it




I have seen one in .460 Wby Mag.. It holds 2 in the mag and one in the pipe..



The .416 I shot did not have a buttplate....
Guy had just fitted the action to the stock, fired one shot and asked me if I wanted to give it a try...
OUCH
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:49:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/album03/DSCF0618.sized.jpg
nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/album03/DSCF0619.sized.jpg

My Garand and my sporterized 1917.





some idiot did that to the Eddystone i have too.

it is serial # 944.



It was my first gun.
It was like that when I bought it.

But I do love it.




Still, you have a helluva nice hunting rifle...or at least you have a bastardized 1917 action that is ripe for a future project.

It would be a criminal to destroy a stock 1917 to sporterize it these days..

Hey...that would be a GOOD gunlaw...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:59:37 AM EDT
The rifle will loose any collector value if refinished.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:13:01 AM EDT
Simply clean the stock. If you sand it or apply any finish other than BLO, you will reduce the value of the rifle by hundreds of dollars.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:15:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 2:16:06 AM EDT by hughjafj]
The rifle is sporterised. It has no value now.
And tangeant, you're right. I was thinking of the P-14 that has the bolt in the white.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:16:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hughjafj:
The rifle is sporterised. It has no value now.
And tangeant, you're right. I was thinking of the P-14 that has the bolt in the white.




If it is already sporterized with the sight ears milled off the reciever, I would leave it and enjoy it as a sporter. Hell, make an elephant gun out of it. It is great the way it is. I wouldn't mind picking one up that is already sporterized in decent shape...

I have heard of them being restored back to milspec, including new ears being welded onto the reciever. Why anyone would do this when they could pick one up in milspec condition for 500 bucks and save all of the hassel is anyone's guess...

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:34:52 AM EDT
Yeah, if it doesn't have the sight ears and the original length barrel and front sight, it's probably not worth it. Unless you just want a project.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:38:22 AM EDT
About 2 years ago I walked into the Hamburg Pa. Cabelas to buy some reloading supplies and decided to look at the used gun rack. They usually have some milsurps there, always overpriced but it's fun to see what people will pay. $199.00 for a beater 91/30-hock.gif

I'm scanning the rack and- holy crap!! Somebodys entire collection of 1903's,1903A3's, a NM Garand- and one each M1917 Eddystone with a cracked wrist for $395.h, and smelling the plastic burning on the VISA I got to walk to the door with my new rifle.

Got a stock off ebay, found the oiler in the buttrap while cleaning it, darn thing shoots like you wouldn't believe. Original blue finish with original "E" barrel marked 10-17, she shoots better than anything I've ever owned bar none. I can put a lot of rounds in the middle of the target with my AR but with my 1917 the center is GONE.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:46:15 AM EDT
Yeah, I got lucky with mine as well. The barrel is practically new, which is rare for a 1917. It is an Eddystone made in January 1919.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:58:30 AM EDT
My friend isn't worried about collector value. He is the kind (unlike myself) who never gets rid of a gun. He just wants it in "original" condition, at least reasonably so. He's not worried about matching parts or those kind of things. The rear sight assembly and front sight are all intact, so it will amount to getting a stock assembly and the hardware (which he has ordered for $125 from U.S. Martial Collectors out of Shotgun News) and a refinishing job.

The reason I asked about the refinishing is that another friend of mine is a certified Duracoat applicator and is going to Duracoat the Enfield. I know, I know---it isn't the original finish, but remember he just wants it to LOOK original and it IS a durable finish. The best part is that Duracoat can be tweaked by mixing to attain a specific color and sheen. That is why I was so specific about the "color". A matte black finish sounds like it would be the ticket, but how shiny were the original finishes? The amount of hardener used with the Duracoat can adjust the sheen up or down. Duracoat has a pretty cool looking "Parkerizing" color but apparently park was only used on arsenal rebuilds after WWI. He wants it to LOOK like when they were issued in WWI.

Serial number is in the 247,XXX range (Winchester). When was it made?

BTW, my buddy is impressed with the knowledge here. I told him yesterday when he was pondering the rebuild that ARFCOM would be a good place to ask. Sure as shit, within a few minutes we had a reply and overnight there were 21. You guys rock!!!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:13:37 AM EDT
All Winchester M1917s were blued. 247K puts the production in April 1918.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:20:47 AM EDT
A great number of M1917's were sporterized, some well done, some not. The original military config was not as cherished back whenever as it is now.

The design was also sold as a hunting rifle as the Remington Model 30.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:42:32 AM EDT
Are M1917s still available through the CMP?
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