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Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:49:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:49:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Cheating.
Time to move on.
Sorry bud -been there done that your post sounds exactly like a situation I went through wth a long term GF/fiance a long time ago. Exactly like it.  Get out now.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:49:33 PM EDT
[#3]
+1 on the cheating bit.

The lack of physical contact.. is disturbing.

Even if she changes her mind suddenly.. don't give in. You don't know wtf she could be carrying.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:00:43 PM EDT
[#4]
There is someone else.  If anyone is uncertain after ten years there is a serious problem.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:14:17 PM EDT
[#5]
This is my FIRST TIME TO EVER REPLY to a "relationship" thread.

Unfortunately, you have described the classic signs of someone who is looking elsewhere for something that you either 1. aren't providing, or 2. she believes you can never give her.  All the while, she is getting that "something" from someone else who has convinced her that you are SATAN.  (even though you probably provide her with stability and safety)

She is believing him.

She is wanting to have her cake and eat it too.  At this point in time you will see what she is made of because she will either make up with you and continue to get that something from someone else, or she will bail.

Whether it is you or her that bails, be ready to put your "knees in the breeze" and be glad you are not married.

Happened to me after a 4 year relationship where I worked like a dog to provide her with everything, but wasn't there enough to make sure it was worth it.  

Don't make the same mistake.  Figure out what you want, and move in that direction regardless of what she wants.  If she goes with, okay.  If you go alone, go happy.  Maybe most of us here are wrong, but I doubt it.


Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:16:52 PM EDT
[#6]
I've been in the same situation also and as sorry as I am to say it my guess would be she has or is thinking about cheating.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:18:08 PM EDT
[#7]
"O.K. baby, we'll wait. But only one more decade!"
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:22:15 PM EDT
[#8]
She's bailing out the relationship - the way women do. Slowly pulling out like a fat tick that's sucked enough blood.

End it, get on with your life.

Seriously.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:23:37 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
There is someone else.  If anyone is uncertain after ten years there is a serious problem.



It may not be physical at this point. Could just be an emotional affair.

Could be someone at work, or someone she worked with. Gets to hang out with him there, go to lunch, have good times, with out all the stress of a 10 year relationship.  You and her are hard work, with both good and bad history together (and she's concentrating on the bad things now). The 'new guy' has no bad history with her. It's all open fields and happy thoughts. You know, where you and her were years ago.

Whatever you do, don't expect rational behavior from her at this point. It's all about emotion and what she 'feels'.If you have a talk with her and attempt use reason to snap her out of it, she will be upset with you. You are challenging her world view and you "just don't understand" what she's going through.

In short, you are screwed unless she snaps out of it. Which is highly unlikely.

Hold your head up, don't get used, don't sink to her level. Be calm, rational, and make plans to call it off as quickly and cleanly as possible. Then don't wallow in your misery. It won't help anything.

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:24:03 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
If you demanded that I give my best answer, I would say - even on the limited information given - that she is stepping out on you. Probability well over 80%. I have handled uncounted hundreds of dicorces, breakups, et c. et c. et c. Brush your teeth thoroughly and kick her to the curb.



Unfortunately, that is what I thought of when I first read your post.

I would try to find out for sure and definitely HELMET up if things start firing again.

One other thing that may be at issue, if she thought she was pregnant and turned out she is not, she could just be highly dissapointed and wants a bit of space hence the couch gig.  

Also, if she is happy she is not pregnant, presumably by you, then she is thinking, "well if I am happy he is not the father, then mabey I should bail."  Hence she is on the couch and distant.

Pregnancy/babies/clocks and women are very very powerful emotionally and physically.  You never know how their feeling about those things will manifest, it really is nuts - but understandable.

You have been together ten years...that seems like too long a time to just punch out now without definitive answers.  However, if she is cheating, I would bail.  In my book there is no excuse for that from either side.

I am just an amature psychologist so no charge.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:27:04 PM EDT
[#11]
"When a woman has fallen out of love with you, there is nothing you can do, except put your hands in your pockets, and walk away."
- --JOHN HUSTON



Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:27:43 PM EDT
[#12]
While I dont have enough info on the situtation, this girl might be bailing because you wont commit to her!!! It's been 10 years for christ sake!

I would assume 10 years is somesort of typo.???
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:30:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:42:22 PM EDT
[#14]
EJECT......
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:30:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Well, in all honesty, I would be very surprised if my g/f is really stepping out on me.  when I inquired, she denied it and I would assume that it is not in her character - buth then again, the list of guys who thought their sig others would not cheat on them and found out later they were cheating is very, very long indeed!

Here is even more fun - I just dropped her off at the airport for a 'business trip' to Dallas for the weekend.

I must be fucking insane to put up with this shit.  When she returns, it will be time for her to shit or get off the pot.  It is either time to move forward or move on.

Thanks, guys!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:40:21 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
CHEATING!!



yep! women break up/divorce for 2 reasons.

1. they are getting smacked around
2. they found new cock

your girfreind is sucking another mans cock. don't believe me? get PI to follow her around.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:47:37 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hmm, things are strange at teh cyoung estate....

Hmm, the g/f of ten years suddenly seems highly sex resistant repulsed by the thought of intimate contact with you, stays up late in the living room dreaming what her it will be like when she can finally be with her one true love, or making late night phone sex calls while you are blissfully ignorantand frequently sleeps there due to a strong nasiating feeling that you might bumb into each other in the night, distant from the festering hatred that has been developing over the years, won't talk muchnow that her new boyfriend has shown her what a self centered asshole you truly are and she has nothing to say and is somewhat afriad to start a fight before she gets her ducks in a row and can get the hell out.  Most physical contact she shies away fromsince she has mentally checked out of the relationship some time ago and is just coexisting in a hostile roommate scenario.  She mentioned at the end of the month that she 'is a little late.' in order to test your resolve 'to see' and guage what your reactions might have been, it was a little test (to validate what she thinks she already knows) to compare you and the new boyfriend If you said anything other than "Great!!! I Love you!!! You need to quit your job and stay home now to raise our kids excpet of course when you'll be out with your friends with the allowance I'll be giving you so you can still have your space and feel like an adult" then you've already lost in her mind because that's most likely exactly what the other guy told her to get into her panties. EPT says no baby on the way, and period did kick in, but we have had very little sex pity sex when the other boyfriend wasn't availableand used protection each time.

I inquired and she is concerned about 'the relationship.'  It seems that the idea of marriage, home, and family, (which I had recently indicated I would like to move ahead on), has caused her to revisit what she wants in life.

So, I ask her - "What do you want."

Answer - "I don't know."I don't want you, but we've been together for so long and I have it so good here that I'm having a difficult time letting go. I've met and been with plenty of guys who were great (in bed) but they weren't finacially secure enough for me to kick you to the curb. So here we sit, me feeling sorry for you but hating you all the same and desperately wanting my new boyfriend to work out. I just need you to STFU and let me be until my new boyfriends divorce is final and we can be together.

I have been clear from the start that I am in this for marriage, home, and a family.  Now, she does not seem to know if she wants any part of this.

Ok, guys, what do I do here?  Is it time to pull the chute and bail?  Has the dread babe-done-went-nuts kicked in?  Advice/comments welcome.



Prognosis: Cheating.
Remedy: Get the hell out. Or get resolution within the day. Relationships have good times and bad times, but she has obviosly checked out of yours. You are roommates now, only roommates. If you are truly in the relationship for the long haul then you are with the wrong gal and need to find one with similiar goals and ideas of what makes a successful relationship.




Blunt, painful diagnosis of the origional post, but probably also right on the money.
Get out before you go through years of misery. First hand experience speaking here.



ETA-Oh, FUC*. I posted before I read the whole thing. A business trip? Use the time she is gone to steady your mind for what is about to happen.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:21:40 AM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
Well, in all honesty, I would be very surprised if my g/f is really stepping out on me.  when I inquired, she denied it and I would assume that it is not in her character - buth then again, the list of guys who thought their sig others would not cheat on them and found out later they were cheating is very, very long indeed!

Here is even more fun - I just dropped her off at the airport for a 'business trip' to Dallas for the weekend.

I must be fucking insane to put up with this shit.  When she returns, it will be time for her to shit or get off the pot.  It is either time to move forward or move on.

Thanks, guys!



"Business trip"? Well there's some giant flashing signs, red flags, and alarms going off.

Spend your weekend packing her stuff up in boxes and have it by the door when she gets back.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:22:41 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
Well, in all honesty, I would be very surprised if my g/f is really stepping out on me.  when I inquired, she denied it and I would assume that it is not in her character - buth then again, the list of guys who thought their sig others would not cheat on them and found out later they were cheating is very, very long indeed!

Here is even more fun - I just dropped her off at the airport for a 'business trip' to Dallas for the weekend.

I must be fucking insane to put up with this shit.  When she returns, it will be time for her to shit or get off the pot.  It is either time to move forward or move on.

Thanks, guys!



Weekend business trip?


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.



Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:23:00 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
While I dont have enough info on the situtation, this girl might be bailing because you wont commit to her!!!





Did you even bother to actually read the original post?


He's the one that wants to get married, have a family, etc...
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:23:46 AM EDT
[#21]
If she has been dating you for 10 years and you are not married, you are not getting married. Move on.


Gr
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:26:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Use this weekend to get all your shit in order, take an inventory, have a friend hold your guns in case she pulls nonsense when you tell her to hit the bricks.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:44:35 AM EDT
[#23]
"I don't know." = I'm not in love with you.

A woman does NOT have to THINK about how she feels about a man.  Either she's nuts about you, or she's not.  There's no inbetween.

I'd suggest you nicely tell her that it's time for both of you to move on - THEN DO SO.

CMOS
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:45:34 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:


Hmm, the g/f of ten years...

I have been clear from the start that I am in this for marriage, home, and a family.  Now, she does not seem to know if she wants any part of this.



You've been clear from the start that you want marriage, home, and family, but you've been together ten years and you haven't married yet?

That's probably enough for her to think about right there...



+1 it takes two to fuck up a relationship.  By about year 5 she was already cheating on you.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:55:28 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
Use this weekend to get all your shit in order, take an inventory, have a friend hold your guns in case she pulls nonsense when you tell her to hit the bricks.




+1 very good advice
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:56:33 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
Hmm, things are strange at teh cyoung estate....

Hmm, the g/f of ten years suddenly seems highly sex resistant, stays up late in the living room and frequently sleeps there, distant, won't talk much.  
I have been clear from the start that I am in this for marriage, home, and a family.  Now, she does not seem to know if she wants any part of this.

Ok, guys, what do I do here?  Is it time to pull the chute and bail?  Has the dread babe-done-went-nuts kicked in?  Advice/comments welcome.



Ok just my 2 cents and I have only read about the first five responses.  

How in the hell are you in this for marriage and family and stuff but have been dating her for 10 YEARS?  The time to shit or get off of the pot was at least 8 years ago.  If you want to marry someone fuckin' do it.  Do not waste your time.  One reason so many people are getting divorced is because the relationship is not going anywhere (I am sorry but it kind of sounds like yours) and instead of doing the smart thing and ending it they get engaged because it seemed like the thing to do "well we have been dating 10 years why not get married."  
It should never be why not get married.  I think if you have to say why not then somehting is wrong.   To many people get married instead of breaking up because they want it to work and think marriage will fix all the problems.  Instead of fixing them it just kind of delays them.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:57:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Check e-mail and cell phone records. Put a device (radio shack $23.00) on home phone if you want a 100% answer on the cheating thing. Do it this weekend takes 2 minutes

If she is you need to know cause its a deal breaker , if she not it may help you decide on what to do next.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:59:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Have Chuck Norris put in in her p..... navermind you get the idea....


Get out NOW while you still can....Thank God the EPT came back with a big negatory....
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:06:35 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:

Here is even more fun - I just dropped her off at the airport for a 'business trip' to Dallas for the weekend.



Uh..... anyone know the cost of a couple of round trip tickets Dallas-Vegas?  Fun, bright lights, gambling, hot tub sex with new dude.  

[cyoungformersqueeze] That rube will never figure it out 'til I cleaned out his check book & max his credit card bwhhahhhahhahhha [/cyoungformersqueeze]

Cyoung do you need one of these?

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:07:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Business trip?  Fuck.  

Call her office and see if anyone slips up and tells you the truth.  Say that she forgot her contacts/meds/whatever and you want to overnight them to the hotel.  They should know where she is staying if it's a legitimate trip.

+1 on packing her shit while she is gone.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:13:42 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
Hmm, things are strange at teh cyoung estate....

Hmm, the g/f of ten years suddenly seems highly sex resistant, stays up late in the living room and frequently sleeps there, distant, won't talk much.  Most physical contact she shies away from.  She mentioned at the end of the month that she 'is a little late.'  EPT says no baby on the way, and period did kick in, but we have had very little sex and used protection each time.

I inquired and she is concerned about 'the relationship.'  It seems that the idea of marriage, home, and family, (which I had recently indicated I would like to move ahead on), has caused her to revisit what she wants in life.

So, I ask her - "What do you want."

Answer - "I don't know."

I have been clear from the start that I am in this for marriage, home, and a family.  Now, she does not seem to know if she wants any part of this.

Ok, guys, what do I do here?  Is it time to pull the chute and bail?  Has the dread babe-done-went-nuts kicked in?  Advice/comments welcome.



Get your head screwed on straight and stop lying to yourself. If you have been living with her for 10 years and are not married, you are NOT in it for marriage.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:21:19 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
Well, in all honesty, I would be very surprised if my g/f is really stepping out on me.  when I inquired, she denied it and I would assume that it is not in her character - buth then again, the list of guys who thought their sig others would not cheat on them and found out later they were cheating is very, very long indeed!

Here is even more fun - I just dropped her off at the airport for a 'business trip' to Dallas for the weekend.

I must be fucking insane to put up with this shit.  When she returns, it will be time for her to shit or get off the pot.  It is either time to move forward or move on.

Thanks, guys!




Dude, get some boxes and a storage unit. Pack up all her shit and put it there. Change the locks and don't pick her up at the airport, or just move away and leave a note as to where her stuff is with a friend. She will get the HINT. Unless she can produce the COMPANY purchase order and receipt for the tickets, don't beleive that BUSINESS TRIP crap. Yeah, shes going to see a Consultant about PIE!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:39:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Dating for 10 years.  How long have you been living together?  Could be long enough for a common law marriage (check with your state).  See... you could be married in the eyes of the law and not know it!  This could make a break-up messy.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:53:38 AM EDT
[#34]
taggaroo!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:01:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Since you have the weekend.... find a place to safely lock your valuables up at.   Just in case (before you get the short end of the stick).  I think you guys are fixing to have "other options".
If it does happen; think of it as an opportunity, not a defeat.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:09:32 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CHEATING!!



Yep.



+2000


it's over.....boot her politely and move on....

but first ( before moving on and after booting ), buy a bunch more cool guns

sorry 'bout the relationship and wish you the best of luck finding someone great for you


Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:11:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Time to move on.....
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:16:30 AM EDT
[#38]
She may simply be getting cold feet about the idea of actual kids and marriage.

If she isn't sure that she wants kids, and you do want kids, I suggest you bail.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:36:33 AM EDT
[#39]
1. Quietly, when she's GONE, remove all of your guns and store them at a relative's house.
2. Again, when she's gone, remove all of your stored items, and put them either at a relatives house or in a storage. Again, on the sly.
3. Plan the day for when she will be gone ALL day, without her knowing, remove the rest of your items. If you have a joint account, empty it of YOUR money and remove your name. Close your personal account and open a new one at a new bank. (You'd be surprised how even a GF can rip you off if they have account information) Have your credit cards in your own name changed to different numbers. Get a P.O. Box and file change of address. After ALL of your belongings are gone and your financial matters dealt with, you MAY if you wish, leave her a note that says "I got to thinking, when I asked you what you wanted, you said "I don't know", at first, I didn't know if I could accept that answer, now, I am certain I can't. I decided to part without drama or debate. This letter is just to let you know that. I don't want to spend yet another 10 years with "I don't know", so, I've decided to move on and I suggest that you do the same."

Don't look back, don't call her, don't accept any calls from her. Clean break and don't give in to temptation under any circumstances. If after 10 years, she doesn't know what she wants, she's a whackjob and THAT kind of woman can be VERY bitter and screw you over in lots of ways. Just vanish.


Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:28:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:31:23 AM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CHEATING!!



Yep.



+1

suspicious

no woman ever ditches one boyfriend without having another one waiting in the wings.

in any case

women are contrary.  tell her to stay, she'll leave.

kick her the fuck out, she'll beg to come back

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:32:53 AM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:
A relationship is not a F-14 Tomcat. It doesn't cost as much, isn't as cool, and you can't kill people with it. So in situations where you'd try and save the F-14, such as an engine failure, or a funny warning light, or odd feeling, in the same situation in a relationship you should grab that yellow and black handle and pull like hell.





I think thats the funniest comparison for relationships I've ever read.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:45:32 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hmm, things are strange at teh cyoung estate....

Hmm, the g/f of ten years suddenly seems highly sex resistant repulsed by the thought of intimate contact with you, stays up late in the living room dreaming what her it will be like when she can finally be with her one true love, or making late night phone sex calls while you are blissfully ignorantand frequently sleeps there due to a strong nasiating feeling that you might bumb into each other in the night, distant from the festering hatred that has been developing over the years, won't talk muchnow that her new boyfriend has shown her what a self centered asshole you truly are and she has nothing to say and is somewhat afriad to start a fight before she gets her ducks in a row and can get the hell out.  Most physical contact she shies away fromsince she has mentally checked out of the relationship some time ago and is just coexisting in a hostile roommate scenario.  She mentioned at the end of the month that she 'is a little late.' in order to test your resolve 'to see' and guage what your reactions might have been, it was a little test (to validate what she thinks she already knows) to compare you and the new boyfriend If you said anything other than "Great!!! I Love you!!! You need to quit your job and stay home now to raise our kids excpet of course when you'll be out with your friends with the allowance I'll be giving you so you can still have your space and feel like an adult" then you've already lost in her mind because that's most likely exactly what the other guy told her to get into her panties. EPT says no baby on the way, and period did kick in, but we have had very little sex pity sex when the other boyfriend wasn't availableand used protection each time.

I inquired and she is concerned about 'the relationship.'  It seems that the idea of marriage, home, and family, (which I had recently indicated I would like to move ahead on), has caused her to revisit what she wants in life.

So, I ask her - "What do you want."

Answer - "I don't know."I don't want you, but we've been together for so long and I have it so good here that I'm having a difficult time letting go. I've met and been with plenty of guys who were great (in bed) but they weren't finacially secure enough for me to kick you to the curb. So here we sit, me feeling sorry for you but hating you all the same and desperately wanting my new boyfriend to work out. I just need you to STFU and let me be until my new boyfriends divorce is final and we can be together.

I have been clear from the start that I am in this for marriage, home, and a family.  Now, she does not seem to know if she wants any part of this.

Ok, guys, what do I do here?  Is it time to pull the chute and bail?  Has the dread babe-done-went-nuts kicked in?  Advice/comments welcome.



Prognosis: Cheating.
Remedy: Get the hell out. Or get resolution within the day. Relationships have good times and bad times, but she has obviosly checked out of yours. You are roommates now, only roommates. If you are truly in the relationship for the long haul then you are with the wrong gal and need to find one with similiar goals and ideas of what makes a successful relationship.




Blunt, painful diagnosis of the origional post, but probably also right on the money.
Get out before you go through years of misery. First hand experience speaking here.



Agreed.

BTDT. Hmanjr is 110-fucking-percent on the money.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:03:18 AM EDT
[#44]
On a positive note, within a year (maybe even a few months) she will be making some other guy miserable and he will be posting the same questions on the board. Meanwhile you will be spending chick-flick money on ammo.

We really do need to take the best posts from all the "Is my woman cheating on me?" threads and tack 'em in a "General Advice" thread.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:27:02 AM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
CHEATING!!



Yep.



+1

suspicious

no woman ever ditches one boyfriend without having another one waiting in the wings.

in any case

women are contrary.  tell her to stay, she'll leave.

kick her the fuck out, she'll beg to come back





Worked for me, 20 years ago. My mistake was, I took her back.

BIG MISTAKE!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:12:02 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:
Hmm, things are strange at teh cyoung estate....

Hmm, the g/f of ten years suddenly seems highly sex resistant, stays up late in the living room and frequently sleeps there, distant, won't talk much.  Most physical contact she shies away from.  She mentioned at the end of the month that she 'is a little late.'  EPT says no baby on the way, and period did kick in, but we have had very little sex and used protection each time.

I inquired and she is concerned about 'the relationship.'  It seems that the idea of marriage, home, and family, (which I had recently indicated I would like to move ahead on), has caused her to revisit what she wants in life.

So, I ask her - "What do you want."

Answer - "I don't know."

I have been clear from the start that I am in this for marriage, home, and a family.  Now, she does not seem to know if she wants any part of this.

Ok, guys, what do I do here?  Is it time to pull the chute and bail?  Has the dread babe-done-went-nuts kicked in?  Advice/comments welcome.



I'm baffled. What good is a girlfriend if she doesn't fork over the pie?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:16:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Time to find a new woman.

Max
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:52:11 AM EDT
[#48]

Quoted:
If it does happen; think of it as an opportunity, not a defeat.


Link Posted: 1/20/2006 12:36:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Ok, enough, enough!!  I get the message.  I have already arranged for a place to go and will start getting my shit out ASAP.

Thanks for the advice, guys and gals.  Sounds like I have to cowboy up and find another filly to ride - whether the current one is stepping out or just doesn't want to take this farther is beside the point.  Enough is enough and I can't  stands no more.

Maybe in a few months, I'll post the results of this weekend.  Pray for me, folks, seriously.  She is not gonna take this well at all.  It will be hard, I know, but I cannot go on like this.


Let's go ahead and stop this thread here.......
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 12:37:23 PM EDT
[#50]
You're male. Of COURSE you're the bad guy. Women can do no wrong.
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