Quoted: When I had to take speech, one exercise required us to break down into groups of four for some inane exercise. Anyway, after brief introductions, this liberal kid who probably weighted a buck and a nickle soaking wet realized that I was wearing a GOP hat.  Without even a moments thought, he actually slapped the hat off of my head.  It's just that instictual for some of them.  "Don't wear that shit around me!" I was absolutely dumbfounded!  I looked at my hat on the floor, looked at this 18 year old wet eared kid, looked at my hat on the floor, just to be sure it actually happened... When I stood up, the look of hatred in his eyes suddenly turned to "oh my God...He's going to beat me up!"  It was priceless.  This girl who was his friend chimed in and told him he was very rude. I decided to let it go.  But, the entire rest of the semester, he stood next to the teacher until I left first!

Dude, that's fucked up!  You did well controlling yourself.  If you'd of done what he deserved and kicked the crap out of him, you'd have been arrested for assault.  So great job controlling your ire.

On the other hand, why did you not have him tossed from the class for that?  His ass should have been shown the door in ten seconds.  And if he was one of my students, I'd have recommended expulsion to the professor.  

2IDdoc,
 What college do you attend? I did something along the same lines with the Sociology class i had to take. Only my question was about why everyone was focussing on the Black poor and not the poor as a whole. Aslo did a term paper on gun control and gun confiscation and the consequenses there of. Really stirred people up a bit.

Quoted: John Smith: "You don't work, you don't eat." Simple.

Actually, the Bible said it long before John Smith:

"10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread."

2nd Thesselonians 3

Quoted: Quoted: Ask them to try an experiment. Tell them you want to balance out the GPAs of everyone in the class.  You want to take some of the GPA from those with a 4.0 and give it to those with a 2.5, so everyone has the same GPA.  After all, that's the best way to right the wrongs of those who didn't have the stellar education of the best high schools, or those who didn't have the benefit of good genetics. When they complain, continue on the same vein--hey, you're just trying to level the playing field for all of you, when you all graduate you will have the same chances in the outside world. Wait for someone to say "I worked hard for my GPA and I'm not giving it up," then ask them how redistributing GPA is any different than redistributing wealth.   I've seen commie students say "that's fine with me" when presented with that one.  Yeah, no shit.

Wow, what idiots.

If I was in that position and everyone agreed to communist grading I'd make them put their money where their mouth is and go along with it. I bet they wouldn't be singing the same tune after several weeks when I stopped doing any homework, stopped studying for tests, and started collecting zeros on all my assignments.


I can just see it now...the infighting in the class,"Come on! You're not working hard enough! You need to study harder or I'm not going to get as good of a grade! Why didn't you turn that assignment in? Now all our grades are going to suffer! We need to create a program where we can monitor everyone in the class and make sure that they are doing their homework so that MY grades don't suffer!"

I can guarantee that if any of them had even a fraction of a brain cell left that before the end of the semester they'd be back to individual grading.

Idiots!

Edited to fix quotes

Quoted: Several years ago I went back to finish my degree. You wanna have some REAL fun, try being a middle-age, right-wing, white male in a 'Critical Reasoning' class full of liberal "skulls full of mush"! It was like shooting fish in a barrel. "Why, that's a 'slipery slope' argument, kiddo!" or "Can't you substantiate your position without stooping to ad hominem arguements?" RTKBA seemed to dominate my papers....much to the chagrin of the libtard-kids. Their public skool indoctrination was telling!

So how many of them gave you a blank stare when you said ad homenim?

Libtard college kid -> Ad homenim? What does that mean?

2IDdoc, you did great.  Keep voicing your thoughts!


Three years ago I went back to college here in Houston at the ripe age of 38.  In my English Comp class we had to write a paper on anything we wanted, but we had to support that position.

I worte a short paper titled "The Lies of Modern Diversity".

What a shitstorm that caused.  We don't have liberals quite as wacko as the two left coasts but there were still plenty of them in the class.  The class after we turned in our papers the prof grabbed a couple of them and read some parts.  

He picked up MY paper and read the whole thing, then with no indication of his own personal position he asked, "Does the author support his or her position?"

About 3/4th's of the class shook their heads so violently I thought they'd fall right off their shoulders, while they chanted, "Noooooooo!"

The prof, to my surprise, re-read several parts of the paper and asked specifically "Why do you say that statement wasn't supported?"

He did this with about 4 different major points in my paper.  While I know the prof was a liberal, he stayed on course and gave me credit for SUPPORTING my positions, NOT JUST STATING THEM like the little moonbats did.

You should have seen the sour faces on these little wretches faces.  They looked like a beaten dog that just shit on the carpet.  They hated my paper because, in short, I supported that "modern diversity" was just political blackmale driven by political correctness.  We no longer have a choice - we HAVE to embrace EVERY lifestyle, value, race, etc., else be metaphorically hung by society.

God I loved that day in class.

CMOS

Quoted: .............The part that bothers me, is that it actually bothers me that everyone got so mad at me. Since so many people were mad at me, I actually started to wonder if I was wrong, even though I hadn't been logically convinced that I was. The room seemed to bond together over their disapproval of me. Wow........

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling

Quoted: What a mess! I made the unfortunate mistake of asking my professor what the definition of economic justice was in my intro to social work class. I started by explaining that my understanding of justice was that it meant 'to right a wrong'. I asked what wrong was done to people that have a lesser economic situation than others. Then all hell broke loose. The leftists in the room went nuts(nearly everybody). They said that kids of poor people deserved the right to the same education, or advantages as a rich person. I said that I disagreed because money doesn't grow on trees, you work for it, and being successful allows you to give more advantages to your kids. Then they started in about how downtrodden the poverty stricken were, and they made personal attacks, and one angry girl told me my view was narrow and theirs was large, and that they had explained to me enough(basically implying that I was stupid), and everyone argued for half an hour. Not one other person took my side, it was me vs. the whole room. Lots of angry pandas tonight. The part that bothers me, is that it actually bothers me that everyone got so mad at me. Since so many people were mad at me, I actually started to wonder if I was wrong, even though I hadn't been logically convinced that I was. The room seemed to bond together over their disapproval of me. Wow. So I guess my job has been done for the night. Anyone else ever suffer through a similar dilemma?

Actually......YOU SHOULD HAVE TAKEN A FLAMETHROWER TO THE PLACE

Socialists are always ready, willing and able to give away other peoples money, collect other peoples money, Tax other peoples money, but never willing to give their own in the name of their own cause.

The world isn't run by ignorant 20 somethings sucking off daddy's or gov.orgs teet.....its run by people who pay the freight through their taxes.

I think I'm going to be in the same boat. I'm taking an online Sociology class from a community college back in Houston while I'm working in Iraq. We had to write up a little introduction of ourselves to the rest of the class. Just off the top of my head I remember that we have a black female lesbian living with her life partner, a 20 something chick that moved to Houston from Seattle and still works at Starbucks, a 23 year veterab if the Houston Police dept, a few people from the Mid-East, a few more Latin American countries, and then a few single moms working on a nursing degree.

As part of the introduction we had to type a response to a quote from a book saying that the 9/11 hijackers weren't cowards as portrayed by the Western media but men with "perfect faith" and as it turns out, perfet faith is a terrible thing.

Anyway, I thought "Cool! I can bust out a good intro on this." so I did. First thing I did was toss out I'm a firm believer in RKBA  and then I started blasting the media. Then I started reading everyone elses intros and it was drivel! There were a couple semi-decent posts of about a paragraph but no one got even close to the novel I wrote. I did get one other person who said the completely agreed with me but most people were just putting something up with no thought into at all.

Leftists college students =  children of rich parents

Quoted: So I guess my job has been done for the night. Anyone else ever suffer through a similar dilemma?

You were a victim of discrimination! If your grades are lower because the professor oppressed your points of view, then you must force the other students to give you theirs because you are "GPA-challnged". See, you are the disadvantaged conservative who needs the help of the enlightened libtards in order to succeed in school. Power to the people!

You did well, and it's hard to stand up against the sheep herd.  I wish I had been clear-thinking enough in college to stand up as you did.  While I was not a full-blown libtard, I was right in step with a lot of liberal thinking.  Not because I was thinking much but because "who can be opposed to help poor kids get to college" or other such fluff.  What conservative ideas I had in those days were usually met with anger and the equivalent of flying monkey shit.

Most people here are right.  After they get out they will fall into 1 of three main categories:

1.) Ex-liberal.  Now that they have something that everyone else is trying to take a chunk of they suddenly see the value in being allowed to keep what they earn.  They see this as it applies to others as well.

2.) Surface liberal.  They rave about their sensitivity, and helping the poor and minorities, and rights, and gays, and abortion, and corporate greed.  Meanwhile they hire accountants to reduce their tax burden.  If it benefits them in some way they are all for new levies and extol their virtue, if not they vote in private against it.  Rights are great as long as they are not used to offend those they agree with, if so then it's hate-speech, hate-crimes, hate-mongering, or any other sloganized phrase they can use.  In other words they can't overcome their personal desire to prosper, but fully expect you to do so.

3.) Useless Hippie.  These are true fruits of libtardism.  They suck at most every real world job they try unless it fits into their activism.  They have no motivation because anything that would cause them to succeed violates their precious notions of social justice, or requires them to 'sell out'.  They do various types of shit work and consider themselves enlightened because they 'choose' a simple lifestyle.  They become vicious and violent if anyone or anything won't conform to their views for the telling.  All processes that don't lead to their desired result are flawed or corrupt.  They have the same external qualities of #2 but without even the sense to become personally successful.

College mentality drives towards #3.  The real world drives towards #1.  Many will convert once they have something other than a used couch, mommy’s laptop, and a lava lamp to call their own in this world.

I agree with you, 2IDdoc.  I came from a poorer background.  My mom was raising three kids (I was still in day care, $150/wk, I think) on $17,000 after her and my dad split.  My mom busted her ass, as did I, to give us every opportunity available.  I received a good education (recently got my B.S. degree from Florida Tech) even though it was a rough battle to get there.  

The reason they think those who live in poverty have it so bad is because they've never been there and lived through it.  Yes, there are some that are shafted on the education side, but that's not because its not available to them.  It's because they aren't working to get that education.

~Dawn

ETA spelling mistake

I went back to Community College at the ripe old age of 37.  The first semester back was a lot of fun. One class was English Composition. There was a lot of reading and discussion. I was always prepared and looked forward to the class.  

During the break one day, a kid comes up to me and says, "Man, I hate it when old guys like you take classes here. You take one class and put everything into it and make the rest of us look bad."  This kid was perpetually late, never had his homework and sometimes came without a freaking pencil and paper!

I stuck my face into his, like R. Lee Ermey, and in a very quiet voice said, "Listen to me you little shit! I'm taking 9 credits this semester at night, CLEP-ing 8 credits in biology and studying for a PRAXIS exam. I have a full-time job, a wife, three kids, a mortgage and two car payments. How much TV did you watch this week? You know what? I didn't watch any.  I studied and did my fucking homework.  It's ill-bred little bastards like you that make me wonder where the hell this country is going..."

He didn't come back from the break and never returned to the class.  I got $5 that says he's picking up trash along the highway now.

Like Tim Allen said in that alien movie, "Never give up. Never surrender."

(Edited fer spellin')

Quoted: During the break one day, a kid comes up to me and says, "Man, I hate it when old guys like you take classes here. You take one class and put everyting into it and make the rest of us look bad."  This kid was perpetually late, never had his homework and sometimes came without a freaking pencil and paper! I stuck my face into his, like R. Lee Ermey, and in a very quiet voice said, "Listen to me you little shit! I'm taking 9 credits this semester at night, CLEP-ing 8 credits in biology and studying for a PRAXIS exam. I have a full-time job, a wife, three kids, a mortgage and two car payments. How much TV did you watch this week? You know what? I didn't watch any.  I studied and did my fucking homework.  It's ill-bred little bastards like you that make me wonder where the hell this counry is going..."

Quick lesson for the morons in your class; all they have to do is watch it:

www.flashbunny.org/content/lifeslottery.html

So far, all of the classes that I've experienced have been pretty civil.  I most certainly was the minority in almost all of my classes, but the liberals actually let me state my opinion without attacking me personally.

I took an American Government class for fun a couple years ago when I was in highschool, it was rather interesting.  I was never actually able to pin the prof's position on any issue down, she was pretty good about it.  One day we were talking about why a member of any particular group would be attracted to a particular political party.  When the prof asked the class why a women would be a member of the Democratic Party, the resident tree hugging, pot smoking, bleeding hearted, flaming liberal said that she would because she was smart.  

This of course illicited high fives and laughter throughout the class.  When the class was asked why a man would join the democratic party, I muttered something under my breath and the prof saw it.  She knew that I was a very outspoken conservative, and she said, "Ian, you have something to say?".  I said flat out in response to the original question, "God only knows".  

The only reaction I got was laughter and a "Ouch, that's harsh " from the hippy.  I made it out of the class alive, and by the end of the semester everyone was asking a highschool junior to do their homework while offering exorbitant amounts of cash.

I have a feeling that this semester is probably going to be different, sociology as a whole sucks.  At least my Microeconomics and business teachers are conservative (outspokenly so).  the business prof has already made his disdain for the Democratic Party very plain.

Quoted: hmmm...not going to college...but I wonder if I can 'audit' a social work class at the local university

Please do.  

Quoted: Wait untill they get out into my world and start earning their own money and being taxed till it hurts.  The tune will change. There was a story about something like this and a wise old guy asked the starry eyed girl if she would mind sharing some of her good grades with a few slackers.  She could take a C- and split the rest of her A amongst the F students that didn't want to do the work.  Of course she said NFW. Then it dawned on her what the real world was like.

If social work is their *major* and they are going to go on to be social workers, they will probably not make enough to ever be taxed by a very large %.

HANG TIGHT - you are a soldier of WISDOM, not the touchy-feely, tree-banging ignorance that they have been force-fed

Quoted: Quoted: So I guess my job has been done for the night. Anyone else ever suffer through a similar dilemma? The heard mentality is alluring, isn't it? Going along with the crowd, afraid to risk the ire of the others who haven't spent 10 minutes questioning the underlying facts that make up their reality? Everyone should have a good education! Everyone should have good medical care! Nice slogans, and few would disagree with such statements. The wiser person, however, begins to ask questions: What is good education, and what makes good education possible? Can we really make sure everyone has a good education? Being the person that looks more deeply at a question than the sloganeering will always make you odd. But leaders aren't supposed to be like the rest of the heard. You are supposed to stand out.

Bingo!

If everyone has the same education, none of it will be "good".  It will all be average.

Quoted: Quoted: When I had to take speech, one exercise required us to break down into groups of four for some inane exercise. Anyway, after brief introductions, this liberal kid who probably weighted a buck and a nickle soaking wet realized that I was wearing a GOP hat.  Without even a moments thought, he actually slapped the hat off of my head.  It's just that instictual for some of them.  "Don't wear that shit around me!" I was absolutely dumbfounded!  I looked at my hat on the floor, looked at this 18 year old wet eared kid, looked at my hat on the floor, just to be sure it actually happened... When I stood up, the look of hatred in his eyes suddenly turned to "oh my God...He's going to beat me up!"  It was priceless.  This girl who was his friend chimed in and told him he was very rude. I decided to let it go.  But, the entire rest of the semester, he stood next to the teacher until I left first! Dude, that's fucked up!  You did well controlling yourself.  If you'd of done what he deserved and kicked the crap out of him, you'd have been arrested for assault.  So great job controlling your ire. On the other hand, why did you not have him tossed from the class for that?  His ass should have been shown the door in ten seconds.  And if he was one of my students, I'd have recommended expulsion to the professor.

Actually, efpeter was assaulted first.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I had to take speech, one exercise required us to break down into groups of four for some inane exercise. Anyway, after brief introductions, this liberal kid who probably weighted a buck and a nickle soaking wet realized that I was wearing a GOP hat.  Without even a moments thought, he actually slapped the hat off of my head.  It's just that instictual for some of them.  "Don't wear that shit around me!" I was absolutely dumbfounded!  I looked at my hat on the floor, looked at this 18 year old wet eared kid, looked at my hat on the floor, just to be sure it actually happened... When I stood up, the look of hatred in his eyes suddenly turned to "oh my God...He's going to beat me up!"  It was priceless.  This girl who was his friend chimed in and told him he was very rude. I decided to let it go.  But, the entire rest of the semester, he stood next to the teacher until I left first! Dude, that's fucked up!  You did well controlling yourself.  If you'd of done what he deserved and kicked the crap out of him, you'd have been arrested for assault.  So great job controlling your ire. On the other hand, why did you not have him tossed from the class for that?  His ass should have been shown the door in ten seconds.  And if he was one of my students, I'd have recommended expulsion to the professor.   Actually, efpeter was assaulted first.

I don't know Indiana laws.  Here in AZ, it would be an arrestable offense to physically attack someone who knocked your cap off your noggin.  I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I had to take speech, one exercise required us to break down into groups of four for some inane exercise. Anyway, after brief introductions, this liberal kid who probably weighted a buck and a nickle soaking wet realized that I was wearing a GOP hat.  Without even a moments thought, he actually slapped the hat off of my head.  It's just that instictual for some of them.  "Don't wear that shit around me!" I was absolutely dumbfounded!  I looked at my hat on the floor, looked at this 18 year old wet eared kid, looked at my hat on the floor, just to be sure it actually happened... When I stood up, the look of hatred in his eyes suddenly turned to "oh my God...He's going to beat me up!"  It was priceless.  This girl who was his friend chimed in and told him he was very rude. I decided to let it go.  But, the entire rest of the semester, he stood next to the teacher until I left first! Dude, that's fucked up!  You did well controlling yourself.  If you'd of done what he deserved and kicked the crap out of him, you'd have been arrested for assault.  So great job controlling your ire. On the other hand, why did you not have him tossed from the class for that?  His ass should have been shown the door in ten seconds.  And if he was one of my students, I'd have recommended expulsion to the professor.   Actually, efpeter was assaulted first. I don't know Indiana laws.  Here in AZ, it would be an arrestable offense to physically attack someone who knocked your cap off your noggin.  I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is.

Oh, if efpeter had kicked the dude's ass like he deserved, it would *also* have been assault.  I was just saying that efpeter had been assaulted *first*.  



(self-def probably wouldn't come into play because the "assaulting behavior" stopped with the cap being knocked off)

Quoted: Are you fricken insane?!?!  You are behind enemy lines when you go to college.  Keep your head down, mouth shut, make yourself so small that nobody notices if you are absent. The professors are in control of grades.  Assume they are all liberal. I wrote a conservative paper in my english class and I believe I got ripped off with the grade I recieved because of my views. Call me a wuss, but know when to speak; college is not the place for conservative views. ETA: If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't change my english paper one bit

Similar situation in a lit class.  It was Japanese literature and since I spoke Japanese and had been to japan several times, I figured it would be a good class for me.  Instead we had to read a couple of translated books and listen to the diatribe of the "Professor" who not only did not speak the language, but had never been there and actually knew practically nothing about the culture.  One of the books was called "Black Rain" and was about the Hiroshima bombing and what the survivors went through.  He starts going on about certain cultural effects and how they "now" feel about it.  He didn't like my paper on the book because it disagreed with the majority of what he said.  Then he freaked out when I brought in pictures of Hiroshima Then and now and transcripts of interviews that I had done with a few survivors.  (Went to Hiroshima in '86 and it definitely changed my outlook on nukes).  Guess what, the survivors don't hate us for using it.  They understand why we did it.  They hate the nuke (as do I) but do not hate us.

Quoted: Guess what, the survivors don't hate us for using it.  They understand why we did it.  They hate the nuke (as do I) but do not hate us.

That's interesting.  I hadn't heard that before.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I had to take speech, one exercise required us to break down into groups of four for some inane exercise. Anyway, after brief introductions, this liberal kid who probably weighted a buck and a nickle soaking wet realized that I was wearing a GOP hat.  Without even a moments thought, he actually slapped the hat off of my head.  It's just that instictual for some of them.  "Don't wear that shit around me!" I was absolutely dumbfounded!  I looked at my hat on the floor, looked at this 18 year old wet eared kid, looked at my hat on the floor, just to be sure it actually happened... When I stood up, the look of hatred in his eyes suddenly turned to "oh my God...He's going to beat me up!"  It was priceless.  This girl who was his friend chimed in and told him he was very rude. I decided to let it go.  But, the entire rest of the semester, he stood next to the teacher until I left first! Dude, that's fucked up!  You did well controlling yourself.  If you'd of done what he deserved and kicked the crap out of him, you'd have been arrested for assault.  So great job controlling your ire. On the other hand, why did you not have him tossed from the class for that?  His ass should have been shown the door in ten seconds.  And if he was one of my students, I'd have recommended expulsion to the professor.   Actually, efpeter was assaulted first. I don't know Indiana laws.  Here in AZ, it would be an arrestable offense to physically attack someone who knocked your cap off your noggin.  I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is.   Oh, if efpeter had kicked the dude's ass like he deserved, it would *also* have been assault.  I was just saying that efpeter had been assaulted *first*.   (self-def probably wouldn't come into play because the "assaulting behavior" stopped with the cap being knocked off)

efpeter could have always claimed the kid swung at him and missed, knocking his cap off!  



I didn't just suggest not telling the truth to put a liberal punk in his place, I swear!  Wasn't me!

You might find it interesting to look up Wilfred Bion's work on group dynamics. Interesting stuff.  Specific to your situation, "Basic Assumption groups."  You challenged them and they bonded to protect you. Also the old Groupthink stuff is worthwhile - the "mind guard."

I would like to recommend that you read Theordore Dalryample's "Life at the Bottom: The Worldview that makes the underclass."  He is a Brit. psychiatrist who noted similarities of behavior and repeated failure to take responsibility among the uc as well as commenting on the wreck that social medicine, public housing, and socialism have wrought upon the poor.  (As you might guess, he's on the right, and has recently moved to the USA, declaring that the UK has gone over the deep end.)

Quoted: Bingo! If everyone has the same education, none of it will be "good".  It will all be average.

It is a matter of practicality. We can ask if people want "good" something, and they will invariably say yes. Take Virginia as an example.

Virginia has traffic problems that are positively awful. Everyone wants those problems fixed.

But everyone disagrees on "how" those problems ought to be fixed. Some want more public transportation, some want expansions on the interstate, etc. When it comes to paying for said issues it becomes even more difficult. Nobody wants more toll roads, nobody wants higher gas or car taxes.....

The point that a lot of dunderheads in colleges do not understand is that every policy decision has with it enormous consequences, and that those consequences might create bigger problems than the actual initiative solves.

Take government. If asked if the government should be more efficient, most everyone will say yes. But when specific proposals come along to make government more efficient, people reject them. The military recently looked at trying to raise the insurance rates for military retirees in the hopes of getting them off of the military health insurance and on to the private insurance of their new employers. (We are talking about 20 year folks here...) The DOD spends about 60 billion dollars anually (the entire budget of some states....) on just providing those benefits to retirees.

It would be more efficient for the retirees to get their health insurance elsewhere, but how much support is there for that proposal? People are for a lot of big nebulous things that sound good in principle, until the details of what it will take to achieve those ends becomes clear.

The best example I can give of that is the "Republican Revolution" in 1995. The Contract with America was a great idea....but then the American people balked at the very concepts they were supposed to support in that contract. When the government got shut down, I danced a jig. But lots of people who voted for those Republicans got mad and wanted things back open and buisness as usual.

The message was sent: We want smaller more efficient government, but not that way, or that way, or that way, or that way.....

And people wonder why the Republicans in Congress seemed to wuss out. Well, it was because We The People TOLD them so.

Good job standing up for yourself.  When I was in college, we had an Ethics class, where part of your grade consisted of debates where you took one side of an issue and one other student took another and then the rest of the class began commenting and questioning.
During a debate on the death penalty, I took the position that (contrary to the argument being used by the guy who had the pro-death penalty side of the debate) it didn't matter whether the death penalty was a deterrent, because its purpose was PUNISHMENT.  
The professor, who knew I was in ROTC, asked whether I would have supported the death penalty for someone like Lt Calley of Mai Lai fame.  I said, if it could be proven that he had given the order to kill noncombatants who were no threat, in cold blood, then yes.
This one liberal little bleeding heart girl (who, btw, was cute as hell and the daughter of the Ft Lauderdale police chief) started laying into me saying "Oh, you just want to kill EVERYBODY, Rick."
I smiled wide and said "No, Beth, I don't want to kill YOU."
After class, she started crying and called me a jerk.  
I loved Ethics class.  

Quoted: Good job standing up for yourself.  When I was in college, we had an Ethics class, where part of your grade consisted of debates where you took one side of an issue and one other student took another and then the rest of the class began commenting and questioning. During a debate on the death penalty, I took the position that (contrary to the argument being used by the guy who had the pro-death penalty side of the debate) it didn't matter whether the death penalty was a deterrent, because its purpose was PUNISHMENT.   The professor, who knew I was in ROTC, asked whether I would have supported the death penalty for someone like Lt Calley of Mai Lai fame.  I said, if it could be proven that he had given the order to kill noncombatants who were no threat, in cold blood, then yes. This one liberal little bleeding heart girl (who, btw, was cute as hell and the daughter of the Ft Lauderdale police chief) started laying into me saying "Oh, you just want to kill EVERYBODY, Rick." I smiled wide and said "No, Beth, I don't want to kill YOU." After class, she started crying and called me a jerk.   I loved Ethics class.

Correct response:

No, I don't want to kill everybody. But the fact remains that some suckers just need killin'

Quoted: Good job standing up for yourself.  When I was in college, we had an Ethics class, where part of your grade consisted of debates where you took one side of an issue and one other student took another and then the rest of the class began commenting and questioning. During a debate on the death penalty, I took the position that (contrary to the argument being used by the guy who had the pro-death penalty side of the debate) it didn't matter whether the death penalty was a deterrent, because its purpose was PUNISHMENT.   The professor, who knew I was in ROTC, asked whether I would have supported the death penalty for someone like Lt Calley of Mai Lai fame.  I said, if it could be proven that he had given the order to kill noncombatants who were no threat, in cold blood, then yes. This one liberal little bleeding heart girl (who, btw, was cute as hell and the daughter of the Ft Lauderdale police chief) started laying into me saying "Oh, you just want to kill EVERYBODY, Rick." I smiled wide and said "No, Beth, I don't want to kill YOU." After class, she started crying and called me a jerk.   I loved Ethics class.

LOL, the only thing you could have done better is if you would hav said,"No, beth, I don't want to kill YOU...yet." Hanibal Lecter sound->Fthhththththththththt and say it totally dead pan.

This brings up why I fucking hated college. What a waste of time.

Quoted: This brings up why I fucking hated college. What a waste of time.

Not really.

A lot of what is presented in college is fantastic. I deal with PHDs all the time at the local university, and while there are a few screeching moonbats, the vast majority are people who really do know their stuff and really do have something valuable to learn.

The trouble comes when we take their opinions too seriously when they are speaking off the topic of their learning. I wouldn't, for instance, take the opinion of someone with a PHD in Renaissance Art too seriously when discussing tax policy....

Quoted: Quoted: Good job standing up for yourself.  When I was in college, we had an Ethics class, where part of your grade consisted of debates where you took one side of an issue and one other student took another and then the rest of the class began commenting and questioning. During a debate on the death penalty, I took the position that (contrary to the argument being used by the guy who had the pro-death penalty side of the debate) it didn't matter whether the death penalty was a deterrent, because its purpose was PUNISHMENT.   The professor, who knew I was in ROTC, asked whether I would have supported the death penalty for someone like Lt Calley of Mai Lai fame.  I said, if it could be proven that he had given the order to kill noncombatants who were no threat, in cold blood, then yes. This one liberal little bleeding heart girl (who, btw, was cute as hell and the daughter of the Ft Lauderdale police chief) started laying into me saying "Oh, you just want to kill EVERYBODY, Rick." I smiled wide and said "No, Beth, I don't want to kill YOU." After class, she started crying and called me a jerk.   I loved Ethics class.   LOL, the only thing you could have done better is if you would hav said,"No, beth, I don't want to kill YOU...yet." Hanibal Lecter sound->Fthhththththththththt and say it totally dead pan.

Not to date myself, but Hannibal Lechter was not yet put to paper much less movie when I was in college...  But I did consider adding a "yet" at the time.  Refrained because I didn't want to sound like TOO much of a nutcase!  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I had to take speech, one exercise required us to break down into groups of four for some inane exercise. Anyway, after brief introductions, this liberal kid who probably weighted a buck and a nickle soaking wet realized that I was wearing a GOP hat.  Without even a moments thought, he actually slapped the hat off of my head.  It's just that instictual for some of them.  "Don't wear that shit around me!" I was absolutely dumbfounded!  I looked at my hat on the floor, looked at this 18 year old wet eared kid, looked at my hat on the floor, just to be sure it actually happened... When I stood up, the look of hatred in his eyes suddenly turned to "oh my God...He's going to beat me up!"  It was priceless.  This girl who was his friend chimed in and told him he was very rude. I decided to let it go.  But, the entire rest of the semester, he stood next to the teacher until I left first! Dude, that's fucked up!  You did well controlling yourself.  If you'd of done what he deserved and kicked the crap out of him, you'd have been arrested for assault.  So great job controlling your ire. On the other hand, why did you not have him tossed from the class for that?  His ass should have been shown the door in ten seconds.  And if he was one of my students, I'd have recommended expulsion to the professor.   Actually, efpeter was assaulted first. I don't know Indiana laws.  Here in AZ, it would be an arrestable offense to physically attack someone who knocked your cap off your noggin.  I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is.   Oh, if efpeter had kicked the dude's ass like he deserved, it would *also* have been assault.  I was just saying that efpeter had been assaulted *first*.   (self-def probably wouldn't come into play because the "assaulting behavior" stopped with the cap being knocked off) efpeter could have always claimed the kid swung at him and missed, knocking his cap off!   I didn't just suggest not telling the truth to put a liberal punk in his place, I swear!  Wasn't me!

He was just a stupid kid.  Sometimes the best solution is to walk away.  Maybe someday it will sink in that he was wrong.

Quoted: Ask them to try an experiment. Tell them you want to balance out the GPAs of everyone in the class.  You want to take some of the GPA from those with a 4.0 and give it to those with a 2.5, so everyone has the same GPA.  After all, that's the best way to right the wrongs of those who didn't have the stellar education of the best high schools, or those who didn't have the benefit of good genetics. When they complain, continue on the same vein--hey, you're just trying to level the playing field for all of you, when you all graduate you will have the same chances in the outside world. Wait for someone to say "I worked hard for my GPA and I'm not giving it up," then ask them how redistributing GPA is any different than redistributing wealth.   ETA: In case you missed it, I'm on your side; these people are the kind of liberal socialists who are happy to freely spend YOUR money to make them feel good. Another thing--as soon as someone makes a personal attack, go on the offense--"you've just created a hostile environment--I'm feeling harrassed and discriminated against for my viewpoint--Professor, are you going to do anything about this, or shall I take it to the dean?"  Don't roll over!

I bet they would take that bait and sink in a good bite to boot....big +1...

Just be ready for the..."but that is different arguements"...

Quoted: Quoted: Ask them to try an experiment. Tell them you want to balance out the GPAs of everyone in the class.  You want to take some of the GPA from those with a 4.0 and give it to those with a 2.5, so everyone has the same GPA.  After all, that's the best way to right the wrongs of those who didn't have the stellar education of the best high schools, or those who didn't have the benefit of good genetics. When they complain, continue on the same vein--hey, you're just trying to level the playing field for all of you, when you all graduate you will have the same chances in the outside world. Wait for someone to say "I worked hard for my GPA and I'm not giving it up," then ask them how redistributing GPA is any different than redistributing wealth.   I've seen commie students say "that's fine with me" when presented with that one.  Yeah, no shit.

Thats only because they know it will never happen.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ask them to try an experiment. Tell them you want to balance out the GPAs of everyone in the class.  You want to take some of the GPA from those with a 4.0 and give it to those with a 2.5, so everyone has the same GPA.  After all, that's the best way to right the wrongs of those who didn't have the stellar education of the best high schools, or those who didn't have the benefit of good genetics. When they complain, continue on the same vein--hey, you're just trying to level the playing field for all of you, when you all graduate you will have the same chances in the outside world. Wait for someone to say "I worked hard for my GPA and I'm not giving it up," then ask them how redistributing GPA is any different than redistributing wealth.   I've seen commie students say "that's fine with me" when presented with that one.  Yeah, no shit. Wow, what idiots. If I was in that position and everyone agreed to communist grading I'd make them put their money where their mouth is and go along with it. I bet they wouldn't be singing the same tune after several weeks when I stopped doing any homework, stopped studying for tests, and started collecting zeros on all my assignments. I can just see it now...the infighting in the class,"Come on! You're not working hard enough! You need to study harder or I'm not going to get as good of a grade! Why didn't you turn that assignment in? Now all our grades are going to suffer! We need to create a program where we can monitor everyone in the class and make sure that they are doing their homework so that MY grades don't suffer!" I can guarantee that if any of them had even a fraction of a brain cell left that before the end of the semester they'd be back to individual grading. Idiots! Edited to fix quotes

Not tring to go too far off topic but that gives me an idea for a great lesson plan for a social studies or government class.

Have two, two week courses, one that studies capitalism and those countries that support it, and one studying communist or socialist countries and those that support it.   During all tests and points given out during the capitalism course each student gets what he gets....during the other for socialism review - you split the points evenly between all participants....

I would put money down that during the capitalism course more students would do better and more students would pass with better grades than during the other course.

Schooling isn't about expanding the mind.  It is about regurgitating the professor's personal opinions in a manner which makes him think he's successfully indoctrinated you into his belief system.

That is the only path to excellent grades for 95% of the teachers out there.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ask them to try an experiment. Tell them you want to balance out the GPAs of everyone in the class.  You want to take some of the GPA from those with a 4.0 and give it to those with a 2.5, so everyone has the same GPA.  After all, that's the best way to right the wrongs of those who didn't have the stellar education of the best high schools, or those who didn't have the benefit of good genetics. When they complain, continue on the same vein--hey, you're just trying to level the playing field for all of you, when you all graduate you will have the same chances in the outside world. Wait for someone to say "I worked hard for my GPA and I'm not giving it up," then ask them how redistributing GPA is any different than redistributing wealth.   I've seen commie students say "that's fine with me" when presented with that one.  Yeah, no shit. Wow, what idiots. If I was in that position and everyone agreed to communist grading I'd make them put their money where their mouth is and go along with it. I bet they wouldn't be singing the same tune after several weeks when I stopped doing any homework, stopped studying for tests, and started collecting zeros on all my assignments. I can just see it now...the infighting in the class,"Come on! You're not working hard enough! You need to study harder or I'm not going to get as good of a grade! Why didn't you turn that assignment in? Now all our grades are going to suffer! We need to create a program where we can monitor everyone in the class and make sure that they are doing their homework so that MY grades don't suffer!" I can guarantee that if any of them had even a fraction of a brain cell left that before the end of the semester they'd be back to individual grading. Idiots! Edited to fix quotes Not tring to go too far off topic but that gives me an idea for a great lesson plan for a social studies or government class. Have two, two week courses, one that studies capitalism and those countries that support it, and one studying communist or socialist countries and those that support it.   During all tests and points given out during the capitalism course each student gets what he gets....during the other for socialism review - you split the points evenly between all participants.... I would put money down that during the capitalism course more students would do better and more students would pass with better grades than during the other course.

If you do that, please let me know. I'd love to hear the results, even though I can make a pretty good prediction of what they would be!

Quoted: Schooling isn't about expanding the mind.  It is about regurgitating the professor's personal opinions in a manner which makes him think he's successfully indoctrinated you into his belief system.

If that was your experience, you went to the wrong school.  

Quoted: The funniest part was that the whole class including the professor agreed that the definition of justice was equality. One particular moonbat hippy girl that earlier invited us all to learn more about Indigo Children(I shit you not) <sniP>

I just read this part. I spent a long car drive one night listening to weirdo talk radio one night a few years back and heard all about 'Indigo Children.'

Jesus. You have my profound sympathies. I bet she's got candida, chronic fatigue and is sensitive to perfume, too (how many right wingers do you know with those issues?)

Keep up the good fight.

We are talking about a bunch of college undergraduates, who are generally almost know-nothings and worry more about what the big party on Friday night is going to be than how their GPA is doing. I wouldn't stress about it too much. Present your viewpoints, have what you think is a good counter to "their " points, and hopefully everyone walks away better for the dialogue instead of a classroom where no one disagrees with anyone else and no dissenting opinion ever gets presented. College is SUPPOSED to be about hearing a variety of opinions.

Quoted: They looked like a beaten dog that just shit on the carpet.   CMOS

That's EXACTLY how they look when they get their asses handed to them.

Best line I've seen.

Thanks for the laugh.

SG

Quoted: We are talking about a bunch of college undergraduates, who are generally almost know-nothings and worry more about what the big party on Friday night is going to be than how their GPA is doing. I wouldn't stress about it too much. Present your viewpoints, have what you think is a good counter to "their " points, and hopefully everyone walks away better for the dialogue instead of a classroom where no one disagrees with anyone else and no dissenting opinion ever gets presented. College is SUPPOSED to be about hearing a variety of opinions.

'

While I'd normally agree with you, college has really become an exercise (in many places) in politically correct stalinist indoctrination. There's a lot of stuff, a couple decades, really, in the press about the topic. Not all schools are so affected.

I actually had a (terrible) class from a woman who another professor, over beer, later told me was a committed Marxist whose avowed purpose was to indoctrinate students. She moved to Tofino, B.C. after the Berlin Wall came down.  Really.  

I LOVE getting in these kinds of "discussions". Partly because I love playing the Socrates; the wise ass who keeps asking "innocent" questions that are intellectual hand grenades.

I always interrupt some tirade to ask the person to define their terms or distinguish between something that is SIMILAR but not IDENTICAL TO something else.

For example; we claim "Toleration" is a value. But is this an absolute value or not? Because all people, especially liberals do not TOLERATE EVERYTHING.

First get them to see there is a categorical difference between tolerating a person and tolerating an idea. People have intrinsic worth whereas Ideas might be true, false, serious or silly, helpful or harmful.

We don't expect Blacks to "tolerate" the KKK do we? Noooooooooooo.
We don't expect minorities to accept racism do we? Nooooooooooo.

So we as a society DON'T TOLERATE "racism". Therefore "Toleration" is NOT an absolute.

Ditto with "discrimination": It's not an absolute. Teachers "discriminate" between students when they give grades. It's part of human nature.... thus we have to distinguish between "Just" discrimination and unjust discrimination.....Just toleration and unjust toleration.

Ask them: are people good BECAUSE they're economically poor or because they're people? Are people evil BECAUSE they're economically rich or because they're people?

Why do the "proletariat" suddenly get moral standing while "capitalists" suddenly lose it?

Libs are notoriously lazy thinkers (if they think at all)... getting them to define their terms, make distinctions, and maintain these distinctions helps take the emotion out of the "argument".

Example: The Nguyen Family arrives to the US in 1985 with literally the clothes on their backs, straight from a Thai refugee camp. They don't speak English, they don't understand American  culture, they have no money at all. But they stay together as a family, everyone works menial, minimum wage jobs, pools their income and live frugally. By 1995 the family is in the upper middle class.

Is their hard work and family culture of working together UNFAIR to the Jones' Family - black Americans who in 1985 drove 3 cars, worked low income jobs, but had food stamps, public education, subsidized housing...and a national support system?

How is the hard work and family culture of the Nguyens somehow UNFAIR to the Jones' family?

Don't people have a PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY towards their OWN betterment before helping complete strangers? Do the POOR owe anyone thanks for all the FREE STUFF THEY'RE GIVEN PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY'RE "POOR"?

If you - or me - or anyone misuses freedom, misuses or fails to take advantage of all the bounty that America gives people, how does this failure on our part make the success of others a crime?

It's completely irrational. If they insist on "it's unfair" then get them to define "fair". Then step back and enjoy the show because few of them will ever have even thought about what 'fairness' means. Other than "fair is whatever I want, to hell with everyone else'.