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Posted: 1/16/2006 4:50:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 5:05:27 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Did anyone see this History Channel program last night?

"To the Victor, Belongs the Silence." Hidden until now, we uncover an important and shocking chapter of the American Civil War. Although our nation is well-versed about the atrocities committed against Union POWs at Andersonville, Georgia, few have heard of the wholesale annihilation of Confederate prisoners at Camp Douglas in Chicago, Illinois (12,000 inmates were incarcerated, 6,000 never left). Unlike Andersonville, Camp Douglas had the resources necessary to house and care for its prisoners, but calculated cruelty, torture, and neglect by the US military conspired to exterminate Southern soldiers who entered this "80 Acres of Hell". But, Southern prisoners were not the only victims. Under martial law, prominent Chicago citizens were unjustly tried and imprisoned by a ruthless military tribunal. From 1862 to 1866, more than 6,000 Rebel prisoners and 14 civilians died at the hands of a corrupt and murderous system with tentacles to the White House."

Despite their inhumane treatment, the rebel spirit of the majority of the prisoners remained unbroken.

At the end of the war, the survivors were released.

"If they swore allegiance to the (Union) government, they would be provided transportation home.

If they didn't, they could walk.

Most walked."




(In case you missed it - next airing Saturday, January 21 at 5:00 PM ET)

Eric The(Rebellious)Hun
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:53:31 AM EDT
Not surprising


One more piece of history they don't teach
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:53:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:57:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not surprising


One more piece of history they don't teach


I live about 30 miles from Elmira; the Union prisons aren't ignored in teaching history. You have very limited time to do more than go over the basics; its up to the student to explore the details, and lets face it: most HS students think American history is boring as heck.

What historical book are you reading this week to expand your personal knowledge of American history?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:08:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:


What historical book are you reading this week to expand your personal knowledge of American history?




Quite a lot of different ones, actually, but I'm an exception.


I know most adults don't touch a book ever.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:12:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Quite a lot of different ones, actually, but I'm an exception.
I know most adults don't touch a book ever.



True. Blame society. I am re-reading The Sword of the Republic by F. P. Pruchia this week. No $$ to buy something new.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:16:57 AM EDT
For some reason, the older that you get, the more history becomes important, I guess it takes maturity to appreceiate the past. They used to teach American History paired with drivers ed when I was in HS. The history teachers were the phys'ed coaches.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:26:59 AM EDT
'The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know.' ~ Harry S. Truman

And I enjoy finding new things daily.

Eric The(Historical)Hun
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:32:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
'The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know.' ~ Harry S. Truman




Harry also said "The British fought for the king, the Germans fought for Der Fuhrer, the Japanese fought for the WEmpror, and the Americans fought for souveneirs."
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:33:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By piccolo:
Harry also said "The British fought for the king, the Germans fought for Der Fuhrer, the Japanese fought for the WEmpror, and the Americans fought for souveneirs."


And now they wont even let the GI bring those souveneirs home. Go figure.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:37:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:39:00 AM EDT
Yeah, I remember in HS if you were a history buff people looked at you strangely!

I have always loved history though. I am a history channel addict.

This sounds like the Japanese schools not teaching about WWII
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:41:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:50:12 AM EDT
Having grown up in WI, I don't recall ever being told about that prison camp. Very interesting. I'll have to watch it.

Anybody remember the movie Andersonville that was on tv about 12 years ago? I taped it but have since lost the tape. It was a pretty accurate movie from what I recall.


Oh, as far as what "history" book.... well, I suggest reading Creature from Jekyll Island



A crash course on the nature of money; the origin of banks and the concept of fractional reserves; how this led to the seductive idea of using the same money over and over; how this inevitably led to economic disaster wherever and whenever tried. We are instructed about the Rothschild formula, which perfected the art of making enormous profits from loans to governments, especially for wars; how this led to preventing any one nation from becoming strong enough to establish peace (the famous balance of power); how those who could instigate wars or revolutions were financed (including the Bolsheviks in 1917); how we Americans were sucked into World War I in order to save J.P. Morgan’s loans to England; Insider financiers and Rothschild agent Paul Warburg on Jekyll Island in 1910 where the basic plan for what became the Federal Reserve Act was formulated.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:55:25 AM EDT
The victors write the history
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:59:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:


What historical book are you reading this week to expand your personal knowledge of American history?




Quite a lot of different ones, actually, but I'm an exception.


I know most adults don't touch a book ever.



At any given time of year, I'm usually reading about 4 books (on average) simultaneously. Next week I'm starting a historical piece on Stonewall Jackson, and a history of the religious revival in the Confederate army, called 'God in the Camp.'

And I'm calling on tc556guy's inference that these subjects aren't ignored in the educational system.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:03:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:
The victors write the history


They sure didn't write about Camp Douglas...or Camp Morton...or a few dozen other Federal POW camps.

As the civilian physicians who visted Camp Douglas during the war described it...'an extermnination camp.'

At Andersonville, the Confederate guards were given precisely the same rations, and in the same amounts, as the Federal POWs.

The Feds were not used to fatback and parched corn as a meal, however.

The Federal atrocities were designed and premeditated.

I would have walked home, too, rather than partake of the devil's 'generosity.'

Eric The(Unreconstructed)Hun
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:06:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TWIRE:
At any given time of year, I'm usually reading about 4 books (on average) simultaneously. Next week I'm starting a historical piece on Stonewall Jackson, and a history of the religious revival in the Confederate army, called 'God in the Camp.'

And I'm calling on tc556guy's inference that these subjects aren't ignored in the educational system.


I lose track if I get too many going. I usually try to have one "serious" book and one of what I call my "trash" books(usually some TEOTWAWKI book) going at any given time. In that category this week I am reading Silverbergs The Alien Years. Dunno how I ever missed that book at the store for several years now. I've had it for a few months now and have been reading a couple of pages and then set it down in favor of some other book I wind up reading through before coming back to this one.

As for the stuff that gets covered or not covered, the schools only have so many teaching days and more history to cover every year. How exactly are they going to give EVERY topic the amount of coverage that everyone would be happy with and still have time?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:07:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By alaman:
The victors write the history


They sure didn't write about Camp Douglas...or Camp Morton...or a few dozen other Federal POW camps.

As the civilian physicians who visted Camp Douglas during the war described it...'an extermnination camp.'

At Andersonville, the Confederate guards were given precisely the same rations, and in the same amounts, as the Federal POWs.

The Feds were not used to fatback and parched corn as a meal, however.

The Federal atrocities were designed and premeditated.

I would have walked home, too, rather than partake of the devil's 'generosity.'

Eric The(Unreconstructed)Hun



Bravo on you, good sir. I, too, would like to think that I would rather walk to my home than ride in humiliation.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:07:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:



Oh, as far as what "history" book.... well, I suggest reading Creature from Jekyll Island

us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/realityzone_1874_3730935

A crash course on the nature of money; the origin of banks and the concept of fractional reserves; how this led to the seductive idea of using the same money over and over; how this inevitably led to economic disaster wherever and whenever tried. We are instructed about the Rothschild formula, which perfected the art of making enormous profits from loans to governments, especially for wars; how this led to preventing any one nation from becoming strong enough to establish peace (the famous balance of power); how those who could instigate wars or revolutions were financed (including the Bolsheviks in 1917); how we Americans were sucked into World War I in order to save J.P. Morgan’s loans to England; Insider financiers and Rothschild agent Paul Warburg on Jekyll Island in 1910 where the basic plan for what became the Federal Reserve Act was formulated.





BIG +1
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:11:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By alaman:
The victors write the history


They sure didn't write about Camp Douglas...or Camp Morton...or a few dozen other Federal POW camps.

As the civilian physicians who visted Camp Douglas during the war described it...'an extermnination camp.'

At Andersonville, the Confederate guards were given precisely the same rations, and in the same amounts, as the Federal POWs.

The Feds were not used to fatback and parched corn as a meal, however.

The Federal atrocities were designed and premeditated.

I would have walked home, too, rather than partake of the devil's 'generosity.'

Eric The(Unreconstructed)Hun


Neither side was prepared to effectively run a POW system the way it needed to be run. Enough blame exists for both sides.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:15:06 AM EDT
I've been to Andersonville. I'm not one to believe in ghosts, but that place is haunted ground. Hard to think of a place that would be "worse," but Camp Douglas sounds like a candidate.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:19:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:24:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:24:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:25:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:42:20 AM EDT by rebel_rifle]
I saw about the first hour of this show last night. It was very interesting. I will watch it in its entirety the next time it airs.

As an aside, has anyone been to Johnson's Island on Lake Erie? This is in Ohio just outside of Port Clinton over towards Marblehead. It was another civil war prisoner of war camp for Confederate soldiers, mostly officers. Not much of the camp is left and it was not near as big as Camp Douglas from what I can remember. It was right on the shores of the lake, and I shudder to think about how cold it got there in the winter with those winds and snow coming off of Lake Erie.


ETA: www.johnsonsisland.org/
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:30:06 AM EDT
something something, winner write the history, something something
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:32:00 AM EDT
{rant on}

OK -- I'm pissed at this one!

How dare ANY history program say that they have uncovered this. It has been uncovered for years.... the problem is that PEOPLE DON"T F+CKING STUDY HISTORY!!!

I sell three books in my museum store that talk about Camp Douglas and other Union camps that were absolutely miserable! And I must admit that I am a Yankee at heart. One is called " To Die In Chicago" and is all about Douglas. The books and museums are out there if people would open their minds and eyes and look for them. What about other camps like Point Lookout Md and Elmira NY? These were also very bad but no one cares. If you want to learn history it requires at least a small degree of effort!

{rant mode off}
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:33:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:37:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
At Andersonville, the Confederate guards were given precisely the same rations, and in the same amounts, as the Federal POWs.
The Feds were not used to fatback and parched corn as a meal, however.



"With the South barely able to feed its own men, the prisoners, who were supposed to get the same rations as Confederate soldiers, starved-receiving rancid grain and perhaps a few tablespoons a day of mealy beans or peas."

http://www.civilwarhome.com/andersonville.htm
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:40:48 AM EDT
Never heard of this. Have heard of Andersonville.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:45:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Having grown up in WI, I don't recall ever being told about that prison camp. Very interesting. I'll have to watch it.

Anybody remember the movie Andersonville that was on tv about 12 years ago? I taped it but have since lost the tape. It was a pretty accurate movie from what I recall.


Oh, as far as what "history" book.... well, I suggest reading Creature from Jekyll Island

us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/realityzone_1874_3730935

A crash course on the nature of money; the origin of banks and the concept of fractional reserves; how this led to the seductive idea of using the same money over and over; how this inevitably led to economic disaster wherever and whenever tried. We are instructed about the Rothschild formula, which perfected the art of making enormous profits from loans to governments, especially for wars; how this led to preventing any one nation from becoming strong enough to establish peace (the famous balance of power); how those who could instigate wars or revolutions were financed (including the Bolsheviks in 1917); how we Americans were sucked into World War I in order to save J.P. Morgan’s loans to England; Insider financiers and Rothschild agent Paul Warburg on Jekyll Island in 1910 where the basic plan for what became the Federal Reserve Act was formulated.



Thanks Cheaptrickfan. I'm going to find that book. Interesting.

As far as kids and history, my 10 year old just asked me about the battle of Kursk. He's gotten into "Call of Duty" and hits me with a thousand questions about WW2.

Throws water on the argument that computer games are bad for kids.

Heck, I'd dump my TV if it wasn't for the history channel.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:50:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:51:29 AM EDT by BigButch301]
If you want to know about Andersonville read " Diary of a Dead Man" or the Snowden Diaries. If yoiu want an overall look at POW life in the Civil War read "Portals to Hell". You can also try "Elmira- Death camp of the North" and "Cahaba Prison and the Sultana Disaster"
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:00:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 7:05:01 AM EDT by AcidGambit]
Fuck the Union. North.

I saw that program last night and I am embarassed to say, I never knew about it It damn sure wasn't taught in any history class I have ever had. That's Florida for ya and I live in the good Southern values part of FL.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:02:40 AM EDT
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