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Posted: 1/15/2006 10:54:02 AM EDT
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:55:19 AM EDT
Physiological differences, reactions to certain chemicals, and basically, pure luck.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:56:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



Cause it doesn't cause it. It contributes. Some peope are high at risk for cancer genetically. Some people's immune defenses are just better. Some people work in fields that couple up great with smoking for causing it.

Some folks just dodge the bullet, and some don't. Why don't all fat people have heart attacks?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:56:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:58:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Please cite one source that says you are guaranteed to get cancer if you smoke.





Only about 10% of thoes who smoke get cancer. Many lung cancers come from living in places like LA or Houston.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:59:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



every ones body is different, and God hates some of us more than others.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:01:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:01:09 AM EDT
lets start putting heavy taxes on those who live in smoggy areas in order to discourage them from living in places that will likely harm their health.

and then put the tax money towards annoying "smoggy dwellers education" commercials
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:02:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



every ones body is different, and God hates some of us more than others.




In my Bible, God hates no one, and Loves everone. He hates sin.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:03:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Please cite one source that says you are guaranteed to get cancer if you smoke.




Shit man, the nanny staters claim that one whiff of SECONDHAND smoke from a thousand paces will cause cancer instantaneously. Not to mention genetic defects like all the three headed babies and Chupacabras running around.

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:03:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
lets start putting heavy taxes on those who live in smoggy areas in order to discourage them from living in places that will likely harm their health.

and then put the tax money towards annoying "smoggy dwellers education" commercials




That wouldn't be PC. All of the libs live there.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:05:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar10er:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
lets start putting heavy taxes on those who live in smoggy areas in order to discourage them from living in places that will likely harm their health.

and then put the tax money towards annoying "smoggy dwellers education" commercials




That wouldn't be PC. All of the libs live there.



then they should have no problem being taxed for their own good
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:06:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Not to mention genetic defects like all the three headed babies



So what's the best round for three-headed babies? Or, since they are babies, do we have to let them live? Just checking.

G
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:07:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By ar10er:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
lets start putting heavy taxes on those who live in smoggy areas in order to discourage them from living in places that will likely harm their health.

and then put the tax money towards annoying "smoggy dwellers education" commercials




That wouldn't be PC. All of the libs live there.



then they should have no problem being taxed for their own good




Now look you, common sense does not have any place in our world anymore!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:08:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:11:27 AM EDT by nightstalker]
It's MORE addictive than cocaine or heroin, isn't that what should be on the label? It's a bad joke that cigarettes (nicotine) are taxed to death, scorned by .gov and polite society, but maintain exalted legal status with alcohol, it's more benevolent (but not benign) neighbor. We don't have the guts in this society to allow people their choice of properly labeled poison. We might use this argument for people that build their homes in the path of hurricanes too, or in known flood plains (although that is more problematic).
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:08:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Not to mention genetic defects like all the three headed babies



So what's the best round for three-headed babies? Or, since they are babies, do we have to let them live? Just checking.

G



The extra heads usually shrivel up and the surviving head becomes a liberal professor.

I would recommend a shotgun.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:09:16 AM EDT

every ones body is different, and God hates some of us more than others.


In my Bible, God hates no one, and Loves everone. He hates sin.

My bible says the same thing...But I'm pretty sure some of these smokers ticked him off pretty good!
I'm not taking any chances...so I quit. (I figure that should help my standing with him a little better)
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:10:53 AM EDT
here we go, another religion thread

if god loves us so damn much then why does he threaten to send us to hell?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:13:12 AM EDT
Weakens your immune system and just bad luck.

Smoking is bad for you, no doubt about it, and can contribute to health problems.

Most people I have seen who get sick and smoke also don't really exercise, drink a lot, and eat poorly... They generally lead a crumy life style.
I also know people who smoke, exercise, and eat well who could out run and out perform most non-smoking, granola eating, go the the social-gym 4 times a week fuckers.

People who smoke should quit, period, you feel better and don't stink... Plus, it's expensive.

I smoke, so I'm not trying to be a health-Nazi.

As a rant though. They tax all the companies to run ad's to get people to A.) Not start or B.) quit. Hows about taking some of that money and actually helping people quit ?!?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:13:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
here we go, another religion thread

if god loves us so damn much then why does he threaten to send us to hell?



Since we're hijacking this thread into the jeebus train, I want to know why the Easter Bunny is so important in America?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:13:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
My Great Grandmother smoked a pipe all her life, she died of old age at 102. My Grandmother smoked 60 filterless cigs a day since she was 14, she died of old age at 87.



HA!!! You see??? SMOKING DOES KILL!!! ... eventually....

they also said that bad eating and alcohol will kill you. My grandfather drank Vodka every day while eating his buttered loaf of bread and slab of bacon.

He lived to 98... he would have lived longer if some asshat doctor didnt screw with him... But that is a different story for a different time.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:15:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
here we go, another religion thread

if god loves us so damn much then why does he threaten to send us to hell?



Since we're hijacking this thread into the jeebus train, I want to know why the Easter Bunny is so important in America?



because both rabbits and candy are tasty
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:16:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:17:20 AM EDT by ar10er]
My thinking is, aren't all of the health nuts going to feel pretty stupid lying on their death beds................

<­BR>



Dying from nothing!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:17:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
here we go, another religion thread

if god loves us so damn much then why does he threaten to send us to hell?



Since we're hijacking this thread into the jeebus train, I want to know why the Easter Bunny is so important in America?



How else would we get hard boiled eggs... Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:20:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:20:47 AM EDT by MrClean4Hire]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
here we go, another religion thread

if god loves us so damn much then why does he threaten to send us to hell?



nevermind....

<­BR>

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:20:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:21:26 AM EDT by TheRedHorseman]

excellent use of picture

shoulda left it
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:21:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:22:42 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



If smoking causes cancer then why...

Now that smoking rates have declined from a high 40 years ago of around 75% percent of the populating to now less than 20% how come the lung cancer rate in the population is pretty much the same… it to should have dropped to less than 1/3 it previous level IF smoking was the primary cause.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:22:50 AM EDT
bell curve
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:25:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar10er:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



every ones body is different, and God hates some of us more than others.




In my Bible, God hates no one, and Loves everone. He hates sin.



Except for cops. He hates those bastards.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:26:07 AM EDT
Very close to 50% of the people who get lung cancer are (or were) smokers. Approximately 20% of the population smokes. The math is clear that smoking does contribute to significant higher rates of lung cancer. I've read that they estimate 30 pack years to really put you in the high probability area for lung cancer (1 pack per day for 30 years). The younger you quit the better. It takes about 15 years for your body to replace your lung cells completely and get your cancer odds back in line with non-smokers. Unfortunately, at about 55 your body dramatically slows down it's cell replacement (old age you know) so quitting late in life doesn't help as much.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:29:20 AM EDT
I used to think in "black and white" terms about people i would refer to as "moral reformers". You, know, all Suffergettes, bible thumpin soccar moms, and Flaccid clergy. But now i realise that that picture is only about 50% correct! I realised that thet there are also whot could be reffered to as "Leftist Authoritarians" (sort of commies) That can attack something and stamp it out if it opposes their "ideology". I think Tobacco is usually associated with the south, rednecks, white trash, degenerates, non-politically correct gun toters ETc etc. I can even remember when in the sixties the hippies thought of alcohol and tobacco as "Square" and for old folks. So combine those two together and you have basically the modern "anti-smoker" crusader. People like Rob Riener (meathead) and what not. At first it was more like a "i dont like it around me" issue. But to attack someones "personal vices" is frowned upon by most hippies as being "faschist" so it layed low. Then they suddenly got the whole issue of "second hand smoke" so now it suddenly became "wow, it affects everyone! lets plant a tree and sing cumbaya!" Now they even talk about the "medical cost" to society. Then put on top of that the Health nuts, "vice Nuts" and what not and you've got a political movement. Is there any real proof that Second hand smoke causes Cancer??? NONE. Not one IOTA! But they figure if they say enough times people will begin to belive it. (one of Hitlers techniques) Oh and speaking of which, He hated smokers and tried to stamp it out in Germany. Only inthe US is Smoking being stamped out successfully, We eat shit food, but we'll be God damned if we gonna engage in a "filthy vice like THAT"! Here endith the rant.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:30:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Please cite one source that says you are guaranteed to get cancer if you smoke.




Please cite one source that says you are guaranteed to get in an accident if you drive drunk.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:32:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:34:51 AM EDT by Fat_McNasty]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
here we go, another religion thread

if god loves us so damn much then why does he threaten to send us to hell?



Since we're hijacking this thread into the jeebus train, I want to know why the Easter Bunny is so important in America?



because both rabbits and candy are tasty



Rabbits are made of candy?? Well crap that's why they are so tasty!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:34:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:36:52 AM EDT
100% of people who have smoked before 1850 have died.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:37:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 11:38:16 AM EDT by Stealth]
.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:50:51 AM EDT
In dumbed down America if the people want to believe something, regardless of lack of scientific evidence, they will. The money stolen from tobacco companies in the form of punitive taxes is immoral and helps finance the left's agenda. The second hand smoke farce is evidence of America's lack of respect for private property rights.

It's just another win for freedom destroying activists.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:10:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
100% of people who have smoked before 1850 have died.

I call BS... Show me your stats!! SHOW ME YOUR PROOF!!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:17:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 12:28:36 PM EDT by JohnTheTexican]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



If smoking causes cancer then why...

Now that smoking rates have declined from a high 40 years ago of around 75% percent of the populating to now less than 20% how come the lung cancer rate in the population is pretty much the same… it to should have dropped to less than 1/3 it previous level IF smoking was the primary cause.



Just about the time smoking dropped in popularity, unleaded fuel came on the scene. Unleaded gas uses Benzene instead of lead, Benzene is a known carcinogen. Fill up your gas tank and get a nice big lungfull of that stuff.

ANdy



Benzene causes lung cancer? I know that there's considerable to damn near conclusive evidence that it's capable of causing carious types of leukemia, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and multiple myeloma, and other blood diseases, but lung cancer's a new one to me. Besides, Benzene is a natural component of gasoline; it's not something new with unleaded gasoline. While Benzene was used as an anti-knock additive before the introduction of lead, the Benzene content of gasoline is regulated and there's probably less in it now than there was in the days of leaded gas.

I think a more likely explanations include: (1) smoking doesn't generally cause cancer immediately--it's the ciumulative effect of years of smoking--so quitting desn't eliminate the risk; (2) people are living longer and consequently have more time to develop cancer; and (3) those statistics, like 42.7% of all statistics, were made up on the spot. According to the CDC, 42.4% of US adults smoked forty years ago. That's just a little shy of "around 75%."
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:28:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:43:22 PM EDT
Check out Penn and Tellers BULLSHIT on smoking. Most of the answers into life's questions lie within BULLSHIT.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:14:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By rainman:
some people that smoke all their lives never get it?

George Burns, smoked cigars everyday for probably 80 friggin years, never heard of him having any cancer...he died at the age of 100!

My aunt that never smoked got it and died.

So, if smoking causes cancer how come everyone that smokes doesnt get it and die of it? And how come they cant determine exactly how much smoke has to be inhaled to reach the "cancer point"?



If smoking causes cancer then why...

Now that smoking rates have declined from a high 40 years ago of around 75% percent of the populating to now less than 20% how come the lung cancer rate in the population is pretty much the same… it to should have dropped to less than 1/3 it previous level IF smoking was the primary cause.



Just about the time smoking dropped in popularity, unleaded fuel came on the scene. Unleaded gas uses Benzene instead of lead, Benzene is a known carcinogen. Fill up your gas tank and get a nice big lungfull of that stuff.

ANdy



Benzene causes lung cancer? I know thatthere's consideral to damn near conclusive evidence that it's capable of causing carious types of leukemia, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and multiple myeloma, but lung cancer's a new one to me.

I think a more likely answers include (1) smoking doesn't generally cause cancer immediately--it's the ciumulative effect of years of smoking--so quitting desn't eliminate the risk; (2) people are living longer and consequently have more time to develop cancer; and (3) those statistics, like 42.7% of all statistics, were made up on the spot. According to the CDC, 42.4% of US adults smoked forty years ago. That's just a little shy of "around 75%."




Benzene

A clear, flammable gas with a pungent odor, benzene is typically used in making chemicals found in degreasers, solvents, and a slew of household products, including art supplies, cleaning supplies, and detergents. It is also found in cigarette smoke and is considered one of the 20 most dangerous known carcinogens in the United States, having been linked to a myriad of diseases, including leukemia, aplastic anemia, and lung cancer.

Benzene exposure generally results from inhalation of the chemical, which attacks the central nervous system shortly after exposure, but benzene can also be absorbed through the skin. Although anyone who uses products that contain benzene is considered to be at risk for exposure, it is generally gasoline distribution workers, pipe fitters, refinery workers, and other laborers who are most vulnerable.

If you have been exposed to benzene and are experiencing fatigue, malaise (bodily discomfort), excessive bruising, joint pain, weakness, or enlarged lymph nodes, it is imperative that you seek professional legal counsel who can help you build your case.

back to top

http://www.lungcancer411.com/html/causes_benzene.html




"Linked" is a pretty loose term. That cpould mean nothing more than that cigarette smoke contains benzene, cigraettes cause lung cancer, therefore Benzene is "linked" to lung cancer.

If you check the CDC, NIOSH,IARC, and the like, you'll see lots of stuff about benzene causing leukemia, and little or nothing about lung cancer.

There might be a suggestion of an association somewhere in the literature, but nothing that would be admissible in court to prove causation.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:11:14 PM EDT
think probabilistic causation -- not mechanical.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:13:30 PM EDT
taggity tag
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:22:25 PM EDT
No, not everyone that smokes gets cancer, some get heart disease, some get high blood pressure, most get chronic broncitis, it takes longer for surgeries to heal, connective tissue diseases are a lot more common . . .

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out smoking is bad for you, all you have to do is observe people that have smoked for many years. I don't see people like george in real life, that's called the exeption and not the rule. It's funny though, every hacking coughing spitting smoker will tell you a story about how his grandma smoked till she was 90 and was in perfect health. I swear the collective IQ of this site gets lower and lower every day.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:25:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 5:29:37 PM EDT by WildBoar]
Emphysema is so much more fun. Killed my grandmother and is currently keeping my mom in the hospital. Both heavy smokers.

ETA defending such a stupid habit is beyond idiotic. Unfortunately I was one of those idiots.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:32:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Please cite one source that says you are guaranteed to get cancer if you smoke.




Here is a partial list of the chemicals in commercially manufactured cigarettes. The first part are chemicals KNOWN to cause cancer, called carcinogens. <----- Do you understand what that word means?

Dimethylnitrosamine

Ethy­lmethylnitrosamine

Nitrosopyrrolidine<­BR>
Hydrazine

Vinyl Chloride

Urethane

Formaldehyde<­BR>
Carbon Monoxide

Hydrogen Cyanide

Acrolein

Acetadehyde
Nitrogen oxides

Ammonia

Pyridine

­Nitric acid

Mathylamine

Hydrogen cyanide

Indole

3-hydroxypyridine

3-vinylpyridine

Acetone

Acetonitr­ile

Acrolein

1,3-Butadiene, mg

Nitrous acid

isoquioline

Isoamylamine
3-Cyanopyridine
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:33:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Please cite one source that says you are guaranteed to get cancer if you smoke.




havent you ever read the side of the cigarette box?

Jeez, stupid mods.....
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:35:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
My Great Grandmother smoked a pipe all her life, she died of old age at 102. My Grandmother smoked 60 filterless cigs a day since she was 14, she died of old age at 87.



The air in Birmingham was probably worse than smoking in those days
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:38:40 PM EDT
If you hang out with someone that has the flu, are you guaranteed to get it? Why are some people immune to HIV? Why are some people more prone to heart disease than others? The human body is designed to fight off diseases. Some bodies can just handle cancer better than others. Blame genetics, diet, depression, or whatever else affects your overall health. Some people just get shafted.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:39:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GotGuns:
If you hang out with someone that has the flu, are you guaranteed to get it? Why are some people immune to HIV? Why are some people more prone to heart disease than others? The human body is designed to fight off diseases. Some bodies can just handle cancer better than others. Blame genetics, diet, depression, or whatever else affects your overall health. Some people just get shafted.



Yup there are some cancers that the doc's don't know why you get them... Its a crap shoot!
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