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Posted: 1/13/2006 3:38:13 PM EDT
I was wondering what the US borders were physicaly like.
I imagine the southern border to be pretty well monitored and the nothern border no so much.

I'd be interested to know what the southern border actualy is...is it a fence/boundary/marked/unmarked/wall/guarded etc

and as for the border with Canada is that the same....

Are there checkpoints as you pass into and out of Canada.?
The main drift of my question is that it is easier for UK citizens to gain legal entry(to live) to Canada than it is to gain entry to USA. If you lived by the border could you pass from Canada to USA on a daily basis without much hassle to go to work/shopping/sightseeing etc

Thanks in advance

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:32:06 PM EDT
24 people have read this thread but no one can be bothered to educate this poor Brit.


Taffy
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:37:51 PM EDT
down south its a fence in some places, a wall in others, a river in others and in some places, nothing.

i know that to leave canada to the USA, there is a $20 or so EXIT fee. no shit.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:41:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 4:45:58 PM EDT by lincolndz]
I live about 3 hours from the USA/Canada border. I have friends that lived 5 miles from the border - he lived in Montana but worked in Canada so he crossed the border everyday with no problems.

I've crossed the border several times and never had to pay a $20 exit fee to come back.

My little brother rides bulls in the Calgary rodeo every year and has never had a problem getting across the border (haven't heard about a $20 fee from him either).

Since the drinking age in Canada is only 18 a lot of students go there to party. I've heard that security has tightened a little bit since 9/11/01, now you need a birth certificate to cross instead of just some form of picture ID.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:42:51 PM EDT
Its a place where you can shoot people on the other side and they cant do shit! Try it sometime!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:43:45 PM EDT
For Americans and Canadin citizens who do not have criminal records and have a legitimate reason to cross the border for short vacations and shopping and such. The prosess is fairly simple and painless deal. I live in a border community and rarely go to canada. My wife goes once or twice a week for the bread at this great bakery and for Black Sheep ale. cheers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:54:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lincolndz:
I live about 3 hours from the USA/Canada border. I have friends that lived 5 miles from the border - he lived in Montana but worked in Canada so he crossed the border everyday with no problems.

I've crossed the border several times and never had to pay a $20 exit fee to come back.

My little brother rides bulls in the Calgary rodeo every year and has never had a problem getting across the border (haven't heard about a $20 fee from him either).

Since the drinking age in Canada is only 18 a lot of students go there to party. I've heard that security has tightened a little bit since 9/11/01, now you need a birth certificate to cross instead of just some form of picture ID.



about the fee, you could be right. my friend went there, and said thats the deal. guess it was BS. sorry for the false info.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:56:55 PM EDT
The Northern Border is pretty much non-existant except at major crossing points.

The Southern Border makes the Northern Border look like Fort F'ing Knox.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:58:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 5:00:27 PM EDT by Taffy223]
Many thanks for your relpies guys.
So the Canada border, does it seperate any Cities. Is one half in US and one half in Canada? and how does that work?.
I live in wales and there is no border between us and England ....no boundary so to speak of and no border control. Are there people who live in Canada/USA and then work/travell in the other on a daily basis. Is the Canada border a physical fence/wall type devide? or just geographical


what's this $20 fee thing?


The southern border has no boundary at certain points is that right?.
How does that work or not work? I thought there was more threat from illegal imigrants on the Southern US border.


Thanks again Taffy


ETA some of my questions were answered as I was typing my last response....cheers
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:02:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
The Northern Border is pretty much non-existant except at major crossing points.

The Southern Border makes the Northern Border look like Fort F'ing Knox.



non-existant?
So why have it?
If it's just a case of wandering 5-10k up the border and crossing unchecked?

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:18:20 PM EDT
the NY/Canada part of the border is all water
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 5:21:04 PM EDT by another_shooter]
The borders are so extensive, that asking us to describe them is like asking a blind man to describe the elephant. I've see the US-Canada border near Niagara Falls. Most of the US - Canadian borders in this area are waterways and Great Lakes. Crossing the borders is over a bridge, and usually requires some form of identification and a stated purpose.

I've only seen the US-Mexico border on the west coast. There, a large fence has been constructed to curtail unlawful entry into the USA. But, relative to the border, this fence is miniscule. People walk or drive across the border.

Most of the borders either Mexico-US or Canada-US have no fence (I think). In some areas, a river (Rio Grande) separates the uS and Mexico, but I've never seen that.

Oh... there is a Canadian Niagara Falls and a US Niagara Falls, but they are really two different cities in the same area with the same name.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:23:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:30:53 PM EDT
The border in AZ is pretty desolate. Couple small towns, but then, nothing.

In the summer we usually end up with better than 100 dead and easily that many rescued on the verge of death....

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:02:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharky30:
the NY/Canada part of the border is all water



Ok but anyone can buy a boat.....
Or is there a big customs marine presense preventing this ?

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:05:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
The border in AZ is pretty desolate. Couple small towns, but then, nothing.

In the summer we usually end up with better than 100 dead and easily that many rescued on the verge of death....




I don't feel sorry for the 100 dead. screw em.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:09:44 PM EDT
I'm pretty amazed at how unprotected your borders are from reading these posts. We here have a natural water barrier between us and Ireland and thank God the European Continent.

All we need to do is pull up the drawbridge...but no some bugger goes and builds a damned tunnel to the land of the "whiteflag"j/k maybe

Why don't you guys build walls to cover the boundaries or is that just too big a job?
It's gotta be cheaper than dealing with the influx of illegals who end up taking housing/health care/education and employment costing the state mucho Dollars.

Taffy the inquisitive

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:14:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
I'm pretty amazed at how unprotected your borders are from reading these posts. We here have a natural water barrier between us and Ireland and thank God the European Continent.

All we need to do is pull up the drawbridge...but no some bugger goes and builds a damned tunnel to the land of the "whiteflag"j/k maybe

Why don't you guys build walls to cover the boundaries or is that just too big a job?
It's gotta be cheaper than dealing with the influx of illegals who end up taking housing/health care/education and employment costing the state mucho Dollars.

Taffy the inquisitive




Have you ever heard the expression that in America, 200 years is a long time, and in Europe, 200 miles is a long distance?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:23:22 PM EDT
ok then why bother with any border control at all?

Taffy

Johnny Jihad will always take the safest route away from prying eyes and surely the illegals just come in their droves anyway where they cannot be seen.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:26:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:28:49 PM EDT by Gravity_Tester]

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
ok then why bother with any border control at all?

Taffy

Johnny Jihad will always take the safest route away from prying eyes and surely the illegals just come in their droves anyway where they cannot be seen.






If we killed any social programs for border jumpers and deployed a few hundred thousand landmines, we could take care of the illegal issue. Johnny Jihadi is a whole other question...


ETA: There are groups who rescue groups of illegals and transport them into the US. There are groups of people who set up water stations in the desert so that the idiots don't die while crossing in the 130* summer heat. These people should be jailed and then publicly flogged.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:34:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
I'm pretty amazed at how unprotected your borders are from reading these posts. We here have a natural water barrier between us and Ireland and thank God the European Continent.

All we need to do is pull up the drawbridge...but no some bugger goes and builds a damned tunnel to the land of the "whiteflag"j/k maybe

Why don't you guys build walls to cover the boundaries or is that just too big a job?
It's gotta be cheaper than dealing with the influx of illegals who end up taking housing/health care/education and employment costing the state mucho Dollars.

Taffy the inquisitive




The borders are basically totally unprotected.

The southern border is 2000-2500 miles long with very few fences (mainly near towns/cities that have mirror cities across the border). The "river" that seperates part of the southern border can easily be walked across, sometimes just stepped across. There are checkpoints in towns, the rest is open.

The northern border is the same, except its woods instead of desert.

As to why walls aren't built: because the government is screwing the citizens.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:42:45 PM EDT
Can I put a tender in to build two big walls.
I'd be freaking pissed about your border control if i was a US Citizen/resident.

What you are telling me is

All these illegals make homes in the US but I as a skilled profesional engineer cannot emigrate over there.

That sucks

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:55:06 PM EDT
I go fishing on some fairly big lakes on the Canadian border. The boundary line roughly runs through the middles of the lakes, and you're supposed to stay on the correct side (or go 25 miles and go through customs). As someone else said, it's basically just largely uninhabited woods on both sides of the lakes, for miles and miles in every direction. Once went a couple miles into Canada by mistake when we set the compass too close to the radio's magnetic microphone. There are narrow channels where one side is USA and the other side is Canada.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:59:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
Can I put a tender in to build two big walls.
I'd be freaking pissed about your border control if i was a US Citizen/resident. No. Fucking. Duh.

What you are telling me is

All these illegals make homes in the US but I as a skilled profesional engineer cannot emigrate over there.

That sucks

Taffy

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:00:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:

Originally Posted By sharky30:
the NY/Canada part of the border is all water



Ok but anyone can buy a boat.....
Or is there a big customs marine presense preventing this ?

Taffy



once while fishing in the thousand islands area, we got stopped by a border patrol boat after we accidently ventured into the canadian side...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:01:27 PM EDT
there may be some porous borders, but I'm still the king of page two
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:03:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
there may be some porous borders, but I'm still the king of the sloppy blowjob!





Wow! Brave admission!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:44:11 PM EDT


is it a fence/boundary/marked/unmarked/wall/guarded etc? YES. Depending on where you are it can be any of those. Heavy duty fencing from the Pacific inland, with manned entry ports. There is usually a Border Patrol truck with agents sitting by the end of the Fence at Border Field State Park to keep the casual runner from walking around. Our side of the fence is pretty much natural vegatation as it is part of the park and mostly scrub shrubbery. On the south side is a street a bullring (no shit) and some beach community housing for Tijuana.

The trolley from downtown San Diego runs right to the Port of Entry, and you can annoy San Diegans by calling it the Tijuana Trolley and not the San Diego Trolley. The tracks are fenced and actually run south of the border eastward to Tecate where they cross again. Tecate is a moderate sized town on the south side and small town on the north side both although there apparently was a settlement of some kind actually straddling what became the border grew up around the port of entry. For most of the California/Baja California border it is fenced but in some of the rougher terrain there is no fence or minimal fencing or torn down fencing. Mostly pretty arid desert mountains in the middle, but they can get snow at the higher elevations in bad winter storms. Illegal crossers cook to death in the summer and can freeze to death in the winter. Let's put it this way a poor peon from the deserts of Mexico has no concept of snow and hypothermia. As you drop from the mountains, you get into the Colorado desert proper and the terrain is rough with minimal desert plants to sand dunes. AZ it gets a little better but still pretty nasty country. Mostly fencing until you get to the Rio Grande River in the Las Cruces, New Mexico area and then the border is the river to the Gulf of Mexico. Some fencing along our side but it's pretty nasty desert in a lot of areas. The now terribly non-Politically correct term "Wetback" came from the folks crossing the Rio Grande.

Most of the Northern border is unfenced and in many areas is the equivalent of a bulldozed road.

On the Southern border there significant Customs efforts, using Navy, Coast Guard and some Customs vessels to interdict drug and people smuggling.

The Northern border for years has been the longest undefended border in the world. Others can describe it further.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:58:36 PM EDT
The northern border isn't so protected because most people cross for short periods with the intention of returning home.

The southern border is being over-run by people who don't speak our language, who overwhelm the social services in the area and usually have no intention of going home. Hence the need to try to keep them out.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:

What you are telling me is

All these illegals make homes in the US but I as a skilled profesional engineer cannot emigrate over there.


our government would rather have illegals here to rape, murder, and steal from us. if we didn't have the illegals, who would commit the crimes? in fact, the government is so happy to have them here that they'll pay them to stay here illegaly and kill, steal, and rape.

it's pretty fucked up isn't it
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:12:46 PM EDT


Taffy,

Why dont you just emigrate to Windsor Canada... as an engineer you can get a job in the Detroit suburban area with no sweat. Plenty of Canadians live there and work here. You can then try for resident alien status.

We have a large contingent of Canadians that actively belong to our gun range in Port Huron which is by the Blue Water Bridge which along with Windsor are the two large entries to the USA from Canada in these parts.

Nice run on sentence, eh?

Give it a shot.

One of your Royal Air Force guys just moved to Windsor, and just border jumps to have fun with us over here.

Do it in stages.

Bring your conservative gun owner friends and jump the puddle.

Dram out

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:38:12 PM EDT
here you go, I have no idea why we don't just trade them for something...

maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&t=h&ll=48.989342,-123.062668&spn=0.04855,0.090294&t=h
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:54:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
I was wondering what the US borders were physicaly like.
I imagine the southern border to be pretty well monitored and the nothern border no so much.

I'd be interested to know what the southern border actualy is...is it a fence/boundary/marked/unmarked/wall/guarded etc
From the Beach to San Ysidro there is a fence made of landing strip plates. At San Ysidro, the fence goes north out to Otay Mesa and becomes a regular fence for several miles again. Around Tecate is becomes the landing planks again out towards Potrero. There are boundary markers, sensors, cameras and patrols.

and as for the border with Canada is that the same....
Nope, no fences, fewer sensors, fewer cameras and fewer agents.
Are there checkpoints as you pass into and out of Canada.?
Tes, there are land border ports on both borders.
The main drift of my question is that it is easier for UK citizens to gain legal entry(to live) to Canada than it is to gain entry to USA. If you lived by the border could you pass from Canada to USA on a daily basis without much hassle to go to work/shopping/sightseeing etc
If some one from the UK is crossing on a daily basis, they will be invited to secondary and be asked why. A person from the UK is not allowed to work or reside in the US.
Thanks in advance

Taffy

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:58:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 9:02:16 AM EDT by sharky30]

Originally Posted By Taffy223:

Originally Posted By sharky30:
the NY/Canada part of the border is all water



Ok but anyone can buy a boat.....
Or is there a big customs marine presense preventing this ?

Taffy



In the area I live (Buffalo NY, on Lake Erie, map below for perspective) there's a US Coast Guard station and the local county sheriff dept that have air and water assets, but they're mostly for rescue. You can pretty much just take a boat across the lake or Niagara River without hassle. The bridge crossings consist of a toll booth and then a customs booth where they normally just ask for your ID, citizenship, and what you plan on doing how long you plan on staying. Occaionslly they might look in your trunk.



www.calanan.com/kayaking/WNY/LakeErie/20020901/
has some pictures of the area, but I think all the land pics are from the lake looking back at the US

I'm pretty sure this is looking at Buffalo from Canada, would be easy to just go across in a boat or swim it although close to the city you're more likely to be seen doing it and might have the cops come get you


Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:12:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dramborleg:

Taffy,

Why dont you just emigrate to Windsor Canada... as an engineer you can get a job in the Detroit suburban area with no sweat. Plenty of Canadians live there and work here. You can then try for resident alien status.

We have a large contingent of Canadians that actively belong to our gun range in Port Huron which is by the Blue Water Bridge which along with Windsor are the two large entries to the USA from Canada in these parts.

Nice run on sentence, eh?

Give it a shot.

One of your Royal Air Force guys just moved to Windsor, and just border jumps to have fun with us over here.

Do it in stages.

Bring your conservative gun owner friends and jump the puddle.

Dram out




I've worked with the RAF guys for 20 years and know the deal.
I was not meaning to work illegaly in the US I was considering moving to Canada near the US border. So If one wanted to go shopping/drinking or general socialising in the US, would the border control be restrictive?

I'm amazed to hear that borders can often be non-existant....no wonder there are so many illegals.
We have a large stretch of water between us and mainland Europe...that still does not stem the flow of illegals to the Uk

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:20:19 PM EDT
Here are some pics:

Canadian border probably out west:


Mexican border in California:


Big difference (I guess)

WBK
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:05:16 PM EDT
The big problem with illegal immigration is that when someone has the balls to say anything about it publicly they get called a racist by the lefty wackos and the sheeple buy into it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:15:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
The big problem with illegal immigration is that when someone has the balls to say anything about it publicly they get called a racist by the lefty wackos President and the sheeple buy into it.



fixed it for ya.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
The big problem with illegal immigration is that when someone has the balls to say anything about it publicly they get called a racist by the lefty wackos and the sheeple buy into it.



funny that.....


same thing happens here

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:43:14 PM EDT
I am from the western side of northern MN and we used to cross into Manitoba all the time. In fact the one border station about 20 miles west wasn't even open after 10 PM. You just drove on through. LIkewise, Lake of the Woods borders on MN, Ontario, and Manitoba. You can just drive your boat, or your car in winter, right across it. In fact the northwest Angle of MN has a simple gravel road leading into Manitoba. NO border patrol station.

The physical land border west of Lake of the Woods is just a 50 yard wide swath of brush and brambles between the forest on each side. You could probably sneak an armored division across with no problems.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:05:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 6:21:05 PM EDT by C-4]

Originally Posted By lincolndz:

I've crossed the border several times and never had to pay a $20 exit fee to come back.
.



Only by plane. ETA: You only find out about it not long before boarding the plane. I was leaving from Montreal and boy was I pissed at those Frogs.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:08:44 PM EDT
We just need to face facts that we cant protect our current border.

We need to hurry up and annex Canada and Mexico and that way the only border we need to protect is down south of Mexico.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:48:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
We just need to face facts that we cant protect our current border.

We need to hurry up and annex Canada and Mexico and that way the only border we need to protect is down south of Mexico.



OK this may seem like a uneducated simplistic question...

BUT why not build a physical wall across the border where you have a problem.
Hadrian managed it, China managed it and we also had the Iron Curtain.(Wales had Offa's Dyke)
If you took into account the reduction in lost revenue from illegals and the ease in which to patrol a "Wall" surely it would be benefical?

I understand the southern border may require a "long" wall but the investment would pay off surely?

Is this a stupid question?

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:24:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
We just need to face facts that we cant protect our current border.

We need to hurry up and annex Canada and Mexico and that way the only border we need to protect is down south of Mexico.



OK this may seem like a uneducated simplistic question...

BUT why not build a physical wall across the border where you have a problem.
Hadrian managed it, China managed it and we also had the Iron Curtain.(Wales had Offa's Dyke)
If you took into account the reduction in lost revenue from illegals and the ease in which to patrol a "Wall" surely it would be benefical?

I understand the southern border may require a "long" wall but the investment would pay off surely?

Is this a stupid question?

Taffy



The problem is that the politicos are trying to talk tough while still pandering to their border jumper supporting constituencies. The wall would have to be HUGE, and it would have to be constantly repaired. The coyotes and drug runners aren't likely to worry about property damage charges...Hell, those dumb fuckers REGULARLY force a halt on NG artillery training by wandering into the impact areas...


We should load them up on planes and drop them off in France...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:34:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:

Originally Posted By sharky30:
the NY/Canada part of the border is all water



Ok but anyone can buy a boat.....
Or is there a big customs marine presense preventing this ?

Taffy



Michigan/Ontario is all water too. I live right off the Detroit River. When I go to see my friend in Windsor, I can see my son's school bell tower from my friends back door. That's how close it is. As far as boats -- there is more of a Coast Guard presence since 9/11, but not oppressive. But you can get a special permit through Immigration in either country that allows you to be pre-screened to cross the border by boat and just phone in to customs on arrival. A lot of people do that here -- they load up the boat and dock at a bar/restaurant on the other side, have a good time then go home.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:05:15 PM EDT
This country was built on the premise that all men are free. Building walls can and have been used to keep people in as well as out. We all came here from a different country (except native americans) Ask your parents or grand parents why they came to this country. Till you repair the condition that causes people to leave their country for another (on inner tubes, rafts, walking though the desert) it will remain a problem. Building a wall is a simplistic answer at best.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:10:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ch0wd3r:
This country was built on the premise that all men are free. Building walls can and have been used to keep people in as well as out. We all came here from a different country (except native americans) Ask your parents or grand parents why they came to this country. Till you repair the condition that causes people to leave their country for another (on inner tubes, rafts, walking though the desert) it will remain a problem. Building a wall is a simplistic answer at best.



The difference is that my Great-grandparents came here to be Americans. Not to turn their bit of Illinois into Stockholm. Until the people coming here want to be Americans--not hyphenated Americans, but simply Americans, they'll just keep trying to turn this country into wherever they came from.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:12:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
24 people have read this thread but no one can be bothered to educate this poor Brit.


Taffy



Your former ruler Hadrian knew what to do.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:45:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 10:47:26 PM EDT by Unicorn]
The Northern border is pretty open. At the Peace Arch crossing, and in the nearby cities there's no fence, just some cameras. Oh, Washington on the West side.

Even if you come through Canada, you'll of course need a Visa for your passport. It shouldn't be hard though. Just the possibility of some long lines depending on where and when you cross.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:46:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By Ch0wd3r:
This country was built on the premise that all men are free. Building walls can and have been used to keep people in as well as out. We all came here from a different country (except native americans) Ask your parents or grand parents why they came to this country. Till you repair the condition that causes people to leave their country for another (on inner tubes, rafts, walking though the desert) it will remain a problem. Building a wall is a simplistic answer at best.



The difference is that my Great-grandparents came here to be Americans. Not to turn their bit of Illinois into Stockholm. Until the people coming here want to be Americans--not hyphenated Americans, but simply Americans, they'll just keep trying to turn this country into wherever they came from.



My problem with illegals (I work with many of them) is not that their here. Because most of them are good people just trying to make a better life for their families. My problem is that they send billions of dollars back to mexico which is not helping our ecomony here. Why do you think Fox isn't doing much about his people leaving his country? It's a win/win situation for him.
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