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Posted: 1/12/2006 10:35:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 7:33:55 AM EDT by JWC6]
MODS, please move if this is the wrong forum:

For the past several weeks, the State of California, Department of Justice, has legally allowed the importation of stripped .223 lower receivers that were not explicitly banned by the California Penal Code section 12276 or the updated Kasler V. Lockyer decision.

Harrott V. County of Kings in 2001 rendered the decision that only the CA DOJ is legally qualified to determine what is an assault weapon, and that it must be specifically identified in the California Code of Regulations. A stripped lower receiver (that is not specifically named in CPC 12276 or the Kasler list) is NOT considered an AW if SB23 (actually CPC 12276.1) features are not added, such as flash hiders, detachable grips, or detachable magazines, etc.

What preceded this current activity is the legal importation into California of premanently altered and affixed 10 round Vulcan lowers and welded-up Bushmasters not able to load greater than 10 rounds. A few individuals also received WRITTEN letters from the CA DOJ concerning firearms that were built without the SB23 features from stripped receivers not listed in CPC 12276 or Kasler V. Lockyer. These letters from the CA DOJ do confirm the legality of these firearms in California.

Some manufacturers and FFL holders outside of California have chosen not to engage in legal commerce with FFLs in California. No problem with that, that is a business decision.

Numerous FFLs in California are not participating in selling .223 stripped lower receivers. Same thing, no problem, that is a business decision.

California citizens who purchased these lowers have had their driver's license information copied by CA DOJ field agents at the FFLs place of business, which is outside the mandatory DROS requirements and the mandatory waiting period of 10 consecutive 24 hour periods. Disturbing, but understandable, for a variety of reasons.

But please, if you have time, here are the following links....

calguns faq

CPC 12275-12290

Kasler V Lockyer

Harrott V County of Kings

Thank you for your attention.



On February 3, 2006, the firearms division of the California department of justice issued a memo concerning the importation of non-listed lowers.

CA DOJ site

click near the right upper corner under the heading "LATEST ADDITIONS" for the PDF file.

The memo states that the lowers will need to be registered as an AW, but conform to SB 23 features or be considered an "unregistered" AW, subject to some penalty.

Fixed magazine firearms such as the California Bushmaster and Colts, Fab Ten, the fixed mag Bushmaster Carbon 15, and the fixed Mag Vulcan are already legal to possess without registration in California. The CA DOJ is proposing the a fixed mag off listed lower is in a different category.

So now, a firearm without AW features needs to be a registered AW without AW features with possible penalities for being an AW.

I think I'm getting a headache now.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:38:17 AM EDT
Man, it's sad to think these regs are in state in our country.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:44:13 AM EDT
Good luck with all of this guys, I'm pulling for ya. Californian's are a creative bunch, if nothing else.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:09:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Man, it's sad to think these regs are in state in our country.




Yes, but we feel ALOT SAFER because of them (obviously just kidding)

You should see the laws concerning swimming pools in our backyards....
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:19:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JWC6:
...
You should see the laws concerning swimming pools in our backyards....



Don't you all have some kind of law against being stupid in public? Please tell me you do. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm merely voicing my opinion on the idiocy of the general (read: Liberal) populous in California. MJD
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:27:26 AM EDT
We are the GREAT STATE that believes everyone is ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING and should be PROTECTED FROM EVERYTHING without paying for anything....

I think of us as a great big social experiment. Maybe gone overboard...

Sigh, maybe I should move to Texas or Florida....
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:29:44 AM EDT
You're always welcome in Virginia! We're not Texas, but we've executed almost as many felons as they have. MJD
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:
You're always welcome in Virginia! We're not Texas, but we've executed almost as many felons as they have. MJD



Thank you!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:06:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:
You're always welcome in Virginia! We're not Texas, but we've executed almost as many felons as they have. MJD



Yeah but we have an express lane for double the volume and better service
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:13:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By highwayman:
You're always welcome in Virginia! We're not Texas, but we've executed almost as many felons as they have. MJD



Yeah but we have an express lane for double the volume and better service



Now you're just bragging. I wouldn't mind visiting Texas some day. Good beef, pretty women, big trucks, fine by me. MJD
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:17:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:24:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JWC6:

Snip

California citizens who purchased these lowers have had their driver's license information copied by CA DOJ field agents at the FFLs place of business, which is outside the mandatory DROS requirements and the mandatory waiting period of 10 consecutive 24 hour periods. Disturbing, but understandable, for a variety of reasons.

Snip


Thank you for your attention.




If some CA DO(in)J 'agent' asked or demanded to see my D.L. I would tell them to fuck off. They have no legal authority to ask for that info and NO ONE has the obligation to provide it. Don't bow down and kiss their fascist asses -- just say NO.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:40:42 AM EDT
Correct. But nobody got arrested and the lowers are still coming in.

Ok, my PLEA to the free USA... Please, in you have the time, read what is happening to us in California, because, my fear, is that the rest of the country may end up like this.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 1:53:37 PM EDT
Just a small update from the legal front...

Its a DUPE from calguns.net and the California forum...

CA DOJ to EXPAND AW LAW
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 1:58:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JWC6:
We are the GREAT STATE that believes everyone is ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING and should be PROTECTED FROM EVERYTHING without paying for anything....



What a fucked up fantasy land.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:05:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:07:28 PM EDT
Ha, Paul, people will still try to get in....
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:10:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Please tell this to your friends, neighbors, and family members!
The place is full, the highways are crowded, the pollution is too thick to breath, the taxes are high, the weather sucks, the real estate is over inflated, the schools are rotten, there are no beautiful women here - only gays, the state contributes nothing to the nation, no service members enlist from here, no guns are allowed in the state, the place is crawling with liberals and illegal aliens ... stay home!



As for Washington State it's the same except there's no sun and it rains all the time.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:11:12 PM EDT
I didn't get in on it. I figured I had enough pre-2000 toys/mags.

Plus, Paul/Imborglio is kicking me out of the state.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:11:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:
You're always welcome in Virginia! We're not Texas, but we've executed almost as many felons as they have. MJD

Virginia is the next best thing to Texas
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:42:59 AM EDT
New Illinois Laws

I thank shopkeep from calguns.net for posting this info.

HB 2414 is almost exactly similar to CURRENT CA laws. If this is not defeated, ILLNOIS, welcome to our nightmare....
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:48:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JWC6:
Correct. But nobody got arrested and the lowers are still coming in.

Ok, my PLEA to the free USA... Please, in you have the time, read what is happening to us in California, because, my fear, is that the rest of the country may end up like this.



not to worry, that "California is a bell weather state" thing has been over for some time. those of us in free America see how fucked up the liberals in CA have made things and we're not going down that route.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:20:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By JWC6:
Correct. But nobody got arrested and the lowers are still coming in.

Ok, my PLEA to the free USA... Please, in you have the time, read what is happening to us in California, because, my fear, is that the rest of the country may end up like this.



not to worry, that "California is a bell weather bed-wetterstate" thing has been over for some time. those of us in free America see how fucked up the liberals in CA have made things and we're not going down that route.




fixed it!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:50:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By highwayman:
You're always welcome in Virginia! We're not Texas, but we've executed almost as many felons as they have. MJD



Yeah but we have an express lane for double the volume and better service



Now you're just bragging. I wouldn't mind visiting Texas some day. Good beef, pretty women, big trucks, fine by me. MJD



Not just pretty, the most beautiful women in the country, some of em anyway. It's 50/50 chance. They are either gorgeous or filthy mcnasty.

That said, I wish we could air lift all of the normal people from California out of it. Then just sink that whole Godforsaken piece of earth and the people on it into the ocean or just southern kalifornia since that is where most of the hippies tend to spawn from.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:57:11 AM EDT
"Learn to swim"
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:36:47 AM EDT
On February 3, 2006, the CA DOJ has responded to the importation of the non listed lowers. See the original post...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 3:41:12 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
I didn't get in on it. I figured I had enough pre-2000 toys/mags.




I had plenty of pre2000 prebans. But I bought in anyway. I have some guns I store out of state and this lower will be assembled and stored out of state with them. Itwas a no brainer as I had enough parts left over from teardowns and rebuilds after the sunset of the federal ban that all i needed was a lower to build another AR.

They guys who bought in big, aquiring 10 or more lowers are bummed though.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:44:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By JWC6:
We are the GREAT STATE that believes everyone is ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING and should be PROTECTED FROM EVERYTHING without paying for anything....



What a fucked up fantasy land.



Please tell this to your friends, neighbors, and family members!

The place is full, the highways are crowded, the pollution is too thick to breath, the taxes are high, the weather sucks, the real estate is over inflated, the schools are rotten, there are no beautiful women here - only gays, the state contributes nothing to the nation, no service members enlist from here, no guns are allowed in the state, the place is crawling with liberals and illegal aliens ... stay home!


Don't worry, more people are leaving than moving to California.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:50:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By JWC6:
We are the GREAT STATE that believes everyone is ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING and should be PROTECTED FROM EVERYTHING without paying for anything....



What a fucked up fantasy land.



Please tell this to your friends, neighbors, and family members!

The place is full, the highways are crowded, the pollution is too thick to breath, the taxes are high, the weather sucks, the real estate is over inflated, the schools are rotten, there are no beautiful women here - only gays, the state contributes nothing to the nation, no service members enlist from here, no guns are allowed in the state, the place is crawling with liberals and illegal aliens ... stay home!


Don't worry, more people are leaving than moving to California.



The number of legal residents moving out of California exceeds the number or legal residents moving into California.

However illegal immigration and the birth rate means the state's population has continued to increase. Cali will really be screwed when the majority of registered voters are the children or grandchildren of illegal immigrants. The will vote bread and circuses for the poor oppressed illegals and tax the hell out of the remaining productive members of California society to pay for it.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:58:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By JWC6:
We are the GREAT STATE that believes everyone is ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING and should be PROTECTED FROM EVERYTHING without paying for anything....



What a fucked up fantasy land.



Please tell this to your friends, neighbors, and family members!

The place is full, the highways are crowded, the pollution is too thick to breath, the taxes are high, the weather sucks, the real estate is over inflated, the schools are rotten, there are no beautiful women here - only gays, the state contributes nothing to the nation, no service members enlist from here, no guns are allowed in the state, the place is crawling with liberals and illegal aliens ... stay home!


Don't worry, more people are leaving than moving to California.



The number of legal residents moving out of California exceeds the number or legal residents moving into California.

However illegal immigration and the birth rate means the state's population has continued to increase. Cali will really be screwed when the majority of registered voters are the children or grandchildren of illegal immigrants. The will vote bread and circuses for the poor oppressed illegals and tax the hell out of the remaining productive members of California society to pay for it.

It reminds me of the reasons leading up to East Germany building the Berlin Wall.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:01:11 PM EDT
Once again let me say "thanks" to the NRA for standing up for the rights of Californians starting in 1989.....
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:07:16 PM EDT
do you think we could get some "Free State" residents to put in some time and contact the NRA to ask for some or ANY action on their part against such a whacko ruling by the DOJ?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:22:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 7:22:48 AM EDT by JWC6]

Originally Posted By leelaw:
do you think we could get some "Free State" residents to put in some time and contact the NRA to ask for some or ANY action on their part against such a whacko ruling by the DOJ?



I think Paul is right, I don't think much people outside our borders gives a hoot about our politcal mess...
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:44:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JWC6:

Originally Posted By leelaw:
do you think we could get some "Free State" residents to put in some time and contact the NRA to ask for some or ANY action on their part against such a whacko ruling by the DOJ?



I think Paul is right, I don't think much people outside our borders gives a hoot about our politcal mess...



California is sorta like a test case. You remaining good folks there, really oughta jump ship and let it sink. As for us outsiders, hell I'm in NY and I don't see the NRA doing much of anything here either... so, the plan is to jump ship and let it sink.

The more these states enact further gun legislation, the more the crime rates increase, the more it proves everyone proudly open carrying is a crime deterrent... therefore, I suppose I see it as lost causes for the greater good.

My hope is that people FOR gun control flock to hippyland
And those of us opposed to gun control flock to free states
We increase our numbers, votes, and strength to hopefully insure we don't have to flee the battlefield anymore.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:10:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By JWC6:

Originally Posted By leelaw:
do you think we could get some "Free State" residents to put in some time and contact the NRA to ask for some or ANY action on their part against such a whacko ruling by the DOJ?



I think Paul is right, I don't think much people outside our borders gives a hoot about our politcal mess...



California is sorta like a test case. You remaining good folks there, really oughta jump ship and let it sink. As for us outsiders, hell I'm in NY and I don't see the NRA doing much of anything here either... so, the plan is to jump ship and let it sink.

The more these states enact further gun legislation, the more the crime rates increase, the more it proves everyone proudly open carrying is a crime deterrent... therefore, I suppose I see it as lost causes for the greater good.

My hope is that people FOR gun control flock to hippyland
And those of us opposed to gun control flock to free states
We increase our numbers, votes, and strength to hopefully insure we don't have to flee the battlefield anymore.



With friends like you who needs enemies.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:19:54 PM EDT
Exactly what are we supposed to do? We can't vote there, we don't have a say that any Kali politico gives a crap about, and the majority of you kalis voted to POS politicians into office and keep re electing them. [not you personally] Other staters can't do jack.

I would imagine the NRA figures Kali is a waste of money and resources with all the vegan lib koo koos voting in their fav commie.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:23:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:25:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:31:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:09:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
do you think we could get some "Free State" residents to put in some time and contact the NRA to ask for some or ANY action on their part against such a whacko ruling by the DOJ?

The California Rifle and Pistol Association has historically been your most effective protector of gun rights in the golden state..I would expect them to continue to be active in defending your rights. The CRPA is affiliated with the NRA, by the way
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