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Posted: 1/6/2006 6:14:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 6:17:01 AM EDT by AmericanPatriot1776]
Pro-Gun Democrats?

Interesting article. If the Democratic party went pro-gun or pro-life on several issues, how many voters would the Republican Partly loose?

Democrats, Stung in 2004, Tap Anti-Abortion, Pro-Gun Candidates
Jan. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Brad Ellsworth likes to hunt, opposes abortion and says he'll put his ``family values up against anybody.'' He may be the Democrats' new dream candidate.

The 47-year-old Ellsworth, a county sheriff in Indiana, is one of a number of Democrats running for the U.S. Congress next year whose positions on social issues deviate from the national party's. His candidacy follows a presidential election the Democrats lost in part because they failed to win over ``values voters,'' according to polls and party strategists.

The recruitment of Ellsworth and candidates with similar views is ``the party making a decision to be more inclusive,'' said Elaine Kamarck, a former adviser to President Bill Clinton and to Vice President Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign. ``It is the lesson of 2004.''

Republicans have long put Democrats on the defensive on cultural issues such as abortion, guns and gay marriage, particularly in districts and states where voters rank protecting values and the right to bear arms among their top concerns.

The Democrats' recruitment efforts represent a change in strategy that may make it more difficult for Republicans to win elections on social issues, said Jennifer Duffy, a congressional analyst at the nonpartisan Cook Political Report in Washington.

A Litmus Test

``There are some in the national Democratic leadership who think perhaps choice has become too much of a litmus test in the party, and it hurts them,'' Duffy said.

Other Democratic recruits for Congress who sound more like traditional Republicans on social issues include former Minnesota Transportation Commissioner Elwyn Tinklenberg, who is anti-abortion, and former college and professional football player Heath Shuler, an avid hunter from North Carolina who opposes abortion and gun controls.

In Pennsylvania, U.S. Senate candidate and state Treasurer Bob Casey, who opposes abortion rights, led abortion foe Senator Rick Santorum, a Republican, by 12 percentage points in a Quinnipiac poll of 1,447 voters last month. In Montana, Monica Lindeen, a pro-gun state representative, is challenging incumbent Republican Denny Rehberg for the state's only seat in the House of Representatives.

And Virginia Governor Mark Warner, a gun supporter who appeared on the cover of the National Rifle Association magazine last year, is a prospective Democratic presidential candidate in the 2008 election.

An Unsuccessful Effort

Democrats also tried, unsuccessfully, to recruit anti- abortion U.S. Representative Jim Langevin to challenge incumbent Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee in his re-election bid next year.

``This is a much larger field than it's been in the past.'' Bill Burton, spokesman for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said of the anti-abortion and pro-gun candidates. ``We have folks in that group who aren't necessarily with the national party on every single issue but do reflect the makeup of the congressional district.''

Most of the Democrats' ``values'' candidates are running in Republican districts. Indiana's 8th District is a prime example: The state has voted for Republicans for president in every election since 1964 and the Republican incumbent representing the district, John Hostettler, is in his sixth term.

Hostettler, 44, has never won with more than 53 percent of the vote since his first re-election bid in 1996, fueling Democratic hopes.

Economic Populists

Many voters in the district who are concerned about abortion or limitations on gun rights are also economic populists worried about the loss of manufacturing jobs, pensions, and access to good health care, Ellsworth said.

``If you're a pro-life voter and you get past that, that we're both pro-life, then they'll have to compare us on other things,'' Ellsworth said of his competitor. ``That's where I think I will win.''

Ellsworth, who began his law-enforcement career in 1982 working for the county jail, is pledging to root out corruption in Congress, help small-business owners cut through red tape and protect jobs and improve health-care access in his state.

``Hostettler has shown through his getting re-elected that he's more than a one-issue candidate,'' said Carl Forti, a spokesman for the National Republican Congressional Committee in Washington.

Gun Lobby

The gun lobby may be taking notice of Democrats like Ellsworth. The percentage of money donated by the National Rifle Association to Democratic House and Senate candidates has increased to 17 percent of funds given so far in the 2006 cycle from 12 percent of the $1.2 million contributed in the 2002 cycle, according to the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington.

Recruiting anti-abortion and pro-gun candidates is part of a broader Democratic effort to recast the party's image on social issues. Kristen Day, executive director of Democrats for Life of America, said she used to have a hard time getting the Democratic National Committee to return phone calls.

Then in April, the group was allowed to use the committee's headquarters to unveil a plan to reduce the U.S. abortion rate. ``It's a big step,'' Day said.

In another sign of Democrats trying to broaden their appeal on the issue, Senator Hillary Clinton of New York, the prospective 2008 Democratic presidential candidate who leads in polls, said in a speech to family-planning providers last January that both sides of the debate should work to reduce abortions by focusing on unwanted pregnancies.

`On the Offensive'

``It's Democrats being more on the offensive rather than the defensive when it comes to values issues,'' said Marshall Wittmann, a senior fellow at the Democratic Leadership Council.

Former President Clinton held that abortion should be ``safe, legal and rare,'' an appeal to voters uncomfortable with abortion that didn't compromise his support for Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that established a woman's right to abortion.

Democrats have strayed from that formula and it has hurt them, Wittmann said. In the 2004 presidential election, more voters -- 22 percent -- said ``moral values'' were the most important issue than said the economy and terrorism, according to CNN exit polls.

Of those who chose values as the top issue, 80 percent voted for Bush and 18 percent for his Democratic challenger, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry.

Describing Democrats

The problem was further documented in an August memo by Democracy Corps, a Democratic research organization. Focus groups found that most voters considered Democrats to be ``liberal'' on issues of morality, according to the memo. Some voters even used the words ``immoral'' or ``morally bankrupt'' to describe Democrats.

Particularly among non-college voters, ``cultural issues not only superseded other priorities'' such as Iraq and the economy, ``they served as a proxy for many voters'' on those issues, the memo said.

``It's almost as if Democrats forgot how to be successful on these issues and are trying to relearn some of the approaches Bill Clinton took in 1992 that were so successful,'' Wittmann said.



To contact the reporter on this story:
Heidi Przybyla in Boston at hprzybyla@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: January 5, 2006 00:05 EST
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:15:52 AM EDT
Take away the anti-gun, pro-welfare state and they might have something.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:15:57 AM EDT
They still refer to Americans who believe in ALL of The Constitution as "The Gun Lobby".

That says it all.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:17:29 AM EDT
Who's ever going to trust them with their shifting ideology. Either you consistently believe something because of your convictions or you are a whore sellout.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:19:06 AM EDT

I was a "Pro-gun", "Pro-Life" Democrat for a long time.

Was.

I won't be back.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:20:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Who's ever going to trust them with their shifting ideology. Either you consistently believe something because of your convictions or you are a whore sellout.



I agree, but that is not what this article is saying. Democrats who do believe in gun rights and right to life philosophies to begin with are now being sought after in order to win because there is a measurable shift in voters opinions.

You will always have liberal Democrats who will say anything to get a vote, but now on a limited basis, non-liberal Democrats are being recruited.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:20:46 AM EDT
I will never in my lifetime trust a Democrat. It is very possible I would leave the Republican party at some point in the future. But vote for a Democrat? I will die first.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:21:32 AM EDT
If the NRA gives one red cent to these fucks and they EVER vote ANYTHING that's not ABSOLUTELY pro-rkba, I'm done with them. After their fist humping over Katrina that was at the rsponse of untold thousands of us members, they are already on a short leash.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:21:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BayEagle:
I was a "Pro-gun", "Pro-Life" Democrat for a long time.

Was.

I won't be back.



Perhaps that is what they are trying to change now. People who have left the party because of the Party's liberal views on a few select issues.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:23:31 AM EDT
Can you imagine if the Democrats became THE PARTY to fight illegal immigration? Will never happen, but they would gain a lot of support, especially with pro-gun and pro life candidates.

That would be the tri-fecta to revise their party.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:30:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Can you imagine if the Democrats became THE PARTY to fight illegal immigration? Will never happen, but they would gain a lot of support, especially with pro-gun and pro life candidates.

That would be the tri-fecta to revise their party.

I dunno, maybe for some, But I'd hope, with a name like yours, you wouldn't be on that list.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:31:45 AM EDT
Personally I feel the two party system is becoming a failure and that's why neither party can be successful. Each sabatoges the other and it's not even about the greater good of the country but control and power. Limit the terms and get some new people in there with new ideas and maybe both parties can start coming to some sort of an agreement. Otherwise, if a third party can become strong enough with middle of the road idealogy, then I think the other two will have a lot to worry about.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:37:45 AM EDT
As long as the liberals control the Demorats, they will not be able to re-make themselves.

Pro-gun, pro-life democrats are simply Republicans that don't want to admit it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:44:38 AM EDT
If you ain't an anti-gun, communist, baby killer, then what's the point of being a Democrat ?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:48:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bfieldburt:
If you ain't an anti-gun, communist, baby killer, then what's the point of being a Democrat ?

In the south we have lots of "pro gun, pro life" democrats that are because they claim dem's have better records for voting for farmers. These spineless "southerners" will out and out lie just like any lib. My ex's grandmother was one of them. She knew I was into guns and at fucking Thanksgiving tries to start in on me in front of the entire family. 20 of em against me. I won. She tried to claim that Kerry has never voted for ANY bill that was anti gun and that Bush had voted for them all. She said Kerry was pro life and that Bush was a staunch supporter of Abortion. They make it so easy sometimes. Most libs are just capable of talking loud, NONE of them can make a valid point.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:55:11 AM EDT
There are already some pro-gun Democrats in the US House of Reps already and they team up with the Repubs to get pro gun legisation passed (Gene Taylor of MS comes to mind).

But if Nancy Pelosi controlled the US House as Majority Leader she would demand they follow her anti gun agenda or else they would be marginalized.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:58:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
There are already some pro-gun Democrats in the US House of Reps already and they team up with the Repubs to get pro gun legisation passed (Gene Taylor of MS comes to mind).

But if Nancy Pelosi controlled the US House as Majority Leader she would demand they follow her anti gun agenda or else they would be marginalized.


Here's a thought, bunch of anti gunners get elected, illegally get guns banned, they illegally try n take them, they get shot, the new government that is left is all anti gun, pro America and pardons all the gun owners since they were confronting deadly force with force.



That was a good dream while it lasted
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:59:14 AM EDT
Plus there are certain districts where only pro life, pro gun politicians will get elected.

So in order for the Dems to regain congress, they have to reluctantly run people like that.

The LEADERS will always be anti gun
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:02:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Plus there are certain districts where only pro life, pro gun politicians will get elected.

So in order for the Dems to regain congress, they have to reluctantly run people like that.

The LEADERS will always be anti gun




Good point.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:03:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Can you imagine if the Democrats became THE PARTY to fight illegal immigration? Will never happen, but they would gain a lot of support, especially with pro-gun and pro life candidates.

That would be the tri-fecta to revise their party.

I dunno, maybe for some, But I'd hope, with a name like yours, you wouldn't be on that list.



Not me. I have this thing about taxes.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:06:09 AM EDT
I know of a pro-gun democrat that ran for the FL House of Rep in 2000 and lost in the primary to an anti-gun libtard, both in votes (79%-21%) and money raised (111k - 39k).

When the pro-gun democrat would meet with "gun people" his credibility was questioned all the time, and I remember one event when he was asked how many guns he "really" owned and asked if he could name them. This kind of shit would never happen with a republican candidate.

That candidate's website, iirc, said something about pro-gun, anti-tax, type of slogan. Funny thing about him, he was a registered republican that switched parties to run for an open seat, but it became contested when the libtard opponent was urged to run by some high-ranking dems, including Shillary and some state dems.

So don't tell me that a pro-gun democrat will win a campaign, because, with few exceptions, it won't happen. The higher-ups in the democratic leadership will not allow it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:07:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:09:14 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]
There are some Democrats that are staunchly pro-gun and pro-life.

I would certainly consider voting for them because they are people of principle.

I would not consider voting for people who suddenly become "pro-gun" and "pro-life" after their party has taken a drubbing at the polls for pushing libbie social agendas.

I don't like big government candidates period.

I hardly think, however, the democrats are going to become a pro-gun, pro-life party. Howard mother-f*cking Dean is the CHAIRMAN OF THE DEM PARTY. He is loonier than a bag full of squirrels and I wouldn't elect him dog catcher.

Many suddenly pro-gun dems, like Virginia Governor Mark Warner, strike me as people who will screw gun owners over the first opportunity they get. I don't believe they believe in the 2nd ammendment as a principle, but try to appear pro-gun for the sake of winning votes.

I don't trust that.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:10:11 AM EDT
Democrats kill babies and poison the environment and are bigots are are responsible for hurricane katrina and want the country overrun by illegal immigrants and want Americans blown up by terrorists and .......



It's all Bill Clinton's fault.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:15:36 AM EDT
"The recruitment of Ellsworth and candidates with similar views is ``the party making a decision to be more inclusive,'' said Elaine Kamarck, a former adviser to President Bill Clinton and to Vice President Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign. ``It is the lesson of 2004.''


If they have to go out and recruit them, then it shows me that they are only doing it to win the elections, not because they have had a change of "values" or heart. Inclusive only works for them if they have to do it to win, otherwise these folks would be in the back of the bus as they always have. I personally would be asking, "so you need me know, huh?" So we are still right where we were before, they talk a good talk, but don't do the walk.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:16:10 AM EDT
It's a trap!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:19:09 AM EDT
When Democrats say "pro gun" they mean this



NOT THIS

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:26:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Who's ever going to trust them with their shifting ideology. Either you consistently believe something because of your convictions or you are a whore sellout.


EXACTLY, algore would say or take whatever position he thought would get him into power. No mention of having a unwavering set of ethics.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:14:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
There are already some pro-gun Democrats in the US House of Reps already and they team up with the Repubs to get pro gun legisation passed (Gene Taylor of MS comes to mind).




There is a Dem House member from NC who has an A ranking from the NRA.

So yeah, there are a few.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:37:01 AM EDT
Two words for them:


Voting Record.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:51:44 AM EDT
Follow the money. I have a huge problem in believing that electing pro-gun, anti-abortion Democrats will actually be able vote their beliefs. Their hopes for reelection are based on how much the national party supports their election campaign with $$$$.

For reference, please read the National Platform to determine how these 'pro-gun, anti-abortion' legislators will be expected to vote:

DNC National Platform 2004

Page 18

“We will protect Americans’ Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do.”

Page 38

“Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman’s right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay.”

Judge for yourself.....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:55:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RichinCM:
“We will protect Americans’ Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do.” by taking all these rights away except the right to shoot geese for election photo opportunities




Fixed.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:03:39 AM EDT
If George the First can proclaim, "Read my lips............"

then sure, the dems can mouth whatever it takes. But, being politicians, they are liars. All of them. The frequency and magnitude may vary, but not the inevitability.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:07:20 AM EDT
Democrats are lying pigs.
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