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Posted: 8/6/2001 11:27:41 AM EDT
[url]www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-000063902aug06.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dnation[/url] Van Hits, Kills 4; NYPD Arrests Off-Duty Officer NEW YORK -- A van driven by a drunken off-duty police officer hit and killed a pregnant woman, her young son and her teenage sister, and the woman's baby died soon after being delivered alive, officials said. Maria Herrera, 24, who was eight months pregnant, died after she was hospitalized Saturday night. Doctors delivered her baby boy after the accident, but he died Sunday morning. Herrera's sister, 16-year-old Dilcia Pena, died at the scene. Herrera's 4-year-old son, Andy, died about an hour later at the hospital. They were crossing the street to visit the sisters' parents when they were hit by a van. The officer, Joseph Gray, was arrested at the scene, Det. Eugene Canapi said. Gray, a 15-year veteran, was charged with drunken driving, manslaughter, reckless endangerment and reckless driving, Canapi said. Gray was also suspended from the force. [b]He pleaded not guilty at a Sunday afternoon arraignment and was released on his own recognizance. Prosecutors had asked for $500,000 bail. His next court date was set for Friday.[/b] Gray "has indicated to us how terrible he feels for the individuals who have died and their families," said his attorney, Stephen Worth. A half-dozen bouquets of flowers, three candles and a rosary were placed in a cardboard box at the site of the accident. "I can't believe this happened," said Maria Hernandez, the sisters' aunt, as she stood crying and hugging relatives across from the accident scene. Herrera's husband, Victor Manuel Herrera, was at the hospital when his newborn son died, relatives said.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 11:36:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 11:32:04 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
What's so sad about it is the effort most LEO's go to combat Drunk Driving. I get to live in a Gestapo Police State and am subjected to drunk driving checkpoints to try and combat the problem, and here we have an LEO who isn't helping to solve the problem, HE IS THE PROBLEM.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 11:47:33 AM EDT
Well, that just cheers me all up... [:(] Tyler
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 11:50:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 12:08:53 PM EDT
the sad part is he killed someone's family,when you could of just walked across the street from his own home & got drunk in the projects with his neighbors[:(]
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 12:09:27 PM EDT
Released OR, huh? Do you think if that were you or I before the judge *we* would get an OR release? According to the TV (for what that's worth), suspect was *on his way to work* with a BAC of over twice the legal level to drive!
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 12:19:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chairborne Ranger: Released OR, huh?
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in NY "ROR" released on his own recognizance, is where the judge releases you from the jail system without bail or restrictions. with the judge believing your a low flight risk of running out of state or country. the courts then hope you return back to court on the date set during arrainment & if not a bench warrant for your arrest will be issued
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 12:44:20 PM EDT
CNN also stated he was on his way to work. It has been charged he received special treatment since he is LEO. Shouldn't be too hard to look up other DUI accidents w/ deaths to see how they were handled. They could start with the ruling judge's other cases. I wonder if this will be done or will we just hear lots of conjecture. So, since he is LEO and was on his way to work do you think he should be held to a higher standard or not?
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 1:27:11 PM EDT
This is truly a tragedy for everyone involved. Officer Gray used horribly poor judgement in deciding to even bother going to work after drinking. And to think I'm supposed to count on these guys if I call for backup when the SHTF? He should have called in an E-Day and stayed at the party/bar/wherever he was. Now look at the bag of shit he climbed into...he's fu@ked. My prayers go out to the Herrera Family.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 2:59:13 PM EDT
All cops are dishonest the ones that say they are not, those are the ones that lie. Listen to the truncking scanner and I dont beleive the thing they say and do, and they say it on the radio. Their reports always differ from the radio. GG
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 3:11:44 PM EDT
Gun Guru, That is the most F@#$ed up thing to say. No they are not all dishonest..not even close to all. I dont know where you live? Stop with the generalizations. I know that I can look at myself in the mirror everyday and feel good about what I did at work. It truly is a crappy job, one I would not let my kids do, because of people like you! Armchair quarterbacks!!! sitting on the sidelines thinking they know better ways to do jobs they wouldn't waan do in the first place. You just hate all of them "just becasue"
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 3:34:46 PM EDT
Thanks, NYshooter, but I *do* know what an OR release is.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 3:52:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 4:03:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 4:14:48 PM EDT
Gunrunner, I'm with you!!!!
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:08:18 PM EDT
So we're to blame ALL cops for the actions of a few? Sorry.. I'm not buying that way of thinking.. Rick
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:15:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:16:51 PM EDT
Why not 4 counts of manslaughter?
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:34:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 5:46:24 PM EDT by Waverunner]
Hey Gun Guru....you have us all figured out right? I'm a dirty cop, I'm on the take, and I truly enjoy infringing on your rights. I'll tell you what, next time you're getting your ass kicked DO NOT call the police for help. Sincerely, NYC Police Officer Ray Q.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:46:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By huey: Gun Guru, That is the most F@#$ed up thing to say. No they are not all dishonest..not even close to all. I dont know where you live? Stop with the generalizations. I know that I can look at myself in the mirror everyday and feel good about what I did at work. It truly is a crappy job, one I would not let my kids do, because of people like you! Armchair quarterbacks!!! sitting on the sidelines thinking they know better ways to do jobs they wouldn't waan do in the first place. You just hate all of them "just becasue"
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BINGO!!! Yes, this cop should pay for his crime, but just as any other person should. Not anymore OR less. Simply, there is no escuse for his stupidity. And I'am a NYC cop!!
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:02:25 PM EDT
In NYC felony arrests are routinely ROR'd. Bail is set based on the subjects prior criminal/court appearance history, standing in the community, employment, risk of flight etc. It is not a punitive thing. Its purpose is to secure a defendant's appearance at future proceedings. In case some of you have forgotten there is still a presumption of innocence when a defendant is charged with a crime in the United States. A totally f***ed up situation for the officer and the victims.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:25:32 PM EDT
Being a cop is stressful. Who can blame him for knocking back a few before work. As long as it helps him make it thru the day. The accident is not his fault. Society is responsible for placing him in a situation where he must use alcohol to cope. Alcoholism is a disease, and instead of jail, he should be given counseling. With proper therapy, he can resume his life a productive law enforcement officer.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:43:39 PM EDT
mejames it must suck to be you. If he took one drink before going to work, he should have turned in his badge and stayed home. He makes all of us look bad and should be ashamed of himself and sad for that family. I have no problem with someone "kicking" back and having one or two, but stay off the roads that my family drives on.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:06:02 PM EDT
It is very wrong for a LEO to do wwhat he did, the first question iswas he also suspended? Second does he have a history, Leo's have a major problem with drinking. I had a real good friend in a local department come to work drunk. He was terminated since he had received oppurtunities to go to rehab. I am also friends with his formerr partner. Who said do you want a drunl backing you up? I agree with her. I have no sympathy with a drunk LEO that will not get help. Sad too say I know too many. And yes some departments shield them. That is wrong. In my county that has been stopping and they are starting to do jail time. My friend is a state corrections officer, he had a unit that was full of drunk cops.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:29:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:37:28 PM EDT
I drive to work really early in the morning and I really hate the LEO's who flash their lights and run red lights. Lately I have seen them not even slow and not turn on their lights. Someone will get killed this way. The rules are meant for safety reasons, and we deserve to have everyone follow them.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:51:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheWind: It is very wrong for a LEO to do wwhat he did, the first question iswas he also suspended? Second does he have a history, Leo's have a major problem with drinking. I had a real good friend in a local department come to work drunk. He was terminated since he had received oppurtunities to go to rehab. I am also friends with his formerr partner. Who said do you want a drunl backing you up? I agree with her. I have no sympathy with a drunk LEO that will not get help. Sad too say I know too many. And yes some departments shield them. That is wrong. In my county that has been stopping and they are starting to do jail time. My friend is a state corrections officer, he had a unit that was full of drunk cops.
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Once your arrested, your also suspended from duty.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:01:22 PM EDT
If you cant "beat 'em" (pun), join 'em. After reading this thread, I have decided to give up policing. I just called by chief and told him he has an hour to get the city's car out of my driveway. I am now going to join the Honored, profession of Techies, or whatever the majority here does for a living, and get paid big bucks to work in a safe enviroment while surfing the net all day. And if I ever see a fellow man in need of help, I'll just mind my own business and keep going my way like the rest of you. If I violate the law, and get caught, its a conspiracy by the NWO and it's JBT's. God, I feel like I've finally done something worthwhile now for mankind, and above all, America!
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:11:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bandito: So we're to blame ALL cops for the actions of a few? Sorry.. I'm not buying that way of thinking.. Rick
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Does that logic sound familiar? It's the same thing that the meatheads who want to steal our rights do. They tell us all guns are bad because a few people misuse them. They use sensationalized biased media reports to "prove" their point. When was the last time Joe the town drunk killed someone with his car and his occupation was the headline? Cop haters insist(and rightly so) that cops are no better than the average citizen, yet they are the first ones to hold us to that higher standard and love to point out the aberrations of police behavior and try to pass it off as the rule rather than the exception(again, see the gun grabber hand book). I was at first surprised that Imbroglio would start a thread like this but as usual these guys are never quite as intelligent as they seem. What happened was a tragedy no matter who was at the wheel. The guy was arrested and charged and released to wait for trial. That's the system. For a group of people who want to defend the Constitution some here seem to know very little about it or perhaps only want it to work for them and no one else. If you don't think other people get RORed in cases like this then you don't know much about the criminal justice system.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:27:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2001 2:26:00 PM EDT by 11b4v]
Oh, I get the logic Sukebe mentions This morning my boss tells me that a gun taken from a stolen vehicle was recovered in the next county and to follow up on it given it's my case. I follow up, and low and behold, it was used in a MURDER. Originally, a guy leaves his truck window open, door unlocked with keys in the ignition while he "just" runs in the bank. Guess what, it gets stolen! All you witnesses were a big help. We find the truck 10 minutes later ditched in the northside of town, and the perps TOOK THE LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS TWO LORCIN 9mm's HIS WIFE BOUGHT HIM (straw purchase?). So, with the NET/anti cop logic, ALL GUN OWNERS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!!!! So, once again, given NET logic, ALL, repeat, ALL gun owners are IRRESPONSIBLE given the actions of one. Since I now think by faulty reasoning like the rest of you Citizens, and we have so much in common, lets get together at the next gunshow.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:11:40 PM EDT
IMHO, this is truly a sad sad case. A 15 yr vet makes a mistake and innocent people die. Then the justice system gives him a bit of preferential treatment. There are no winners here, only losers. But bashing all cops is not doing one iota of good for either the officer or the victims families.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:36:59 PM EDT
You're funny 11b4v! Why would anyone want to hang out with a cop? Suppose we're at this gunshow and you notice I've got the dreaded bayonet on my SKS and its the dreaded 93 model.... Do you rat me out? Sure! You're upwardly mobile, and promotions come to those who do the right thing. I trust cops ....Not! The last ticket I got this bastard is in my rearview with his brights on. I slow to let him pass, but he doesn't pass. He turns his lights down then back up. He doesn't pass. I speed up a little to give a little room. He rolls the lights. I get the drunk test for erratic speed. Fuck cops. They only bust poor people that can't defend themselves. Try busting someone who can! As far as I'm concerned if you want to be an authority on alcohol you either drink lots or don't drink at all. Cops should be abstinate. Anyone who associates with the police needs his head examined. I like honesty in my friends, and as Mark Fuhrman proved, you guys will lie on the stand to sweeten the case!
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 11:01:33 PM EDT
For all the cops on this forum, it is wrong to generalize that ALL the cops are bad. The reason why 99% of people hate cops is basen on YOUR INTERNAL rules and behavior. You are there to protect the LAW and not abuse it. You will make-up evidences only to incriminate somebody. You will kill the innocent and plant a weapon on him to protect your mistake. You will lie in the court of law to have the outcome as you like it. You will get kick-backs to keep your eyes closed. You will pull a gun on anybody when YOUR LIFE IS NOT IN DANGER. You will abuse the law since your buddys will cover for you and apply the BLUE WALL OF SILENCE. You will follow orders that are stupid because they are orders. You belive yourselfs are superior to us. Some of you are spouse abusers and get away with that since you are a LEO. These are only of the few of the reasons why you are so hated by the most. YOU always lament that in case of the nees we jump right away to call 911 for help. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER OPTION ? You are the members of a group ABOVE the LAW in a state run monopoly. So you LEOs on this board would you rant tomorro your buddy to the CHIEF for any violation of the law he did ? I know the answer and so do YOU and stop bitching that people hate you...
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:22:18 AM EDT
Dacon, thank you for helping me illustrate my point. I especially like the use of media created official sounding terms like "Blue wall of silence". You obviously trust the media and belive everything they spoon feed you. I have news for you sonny, and you be better read this sitting down. PRO WRESTLING IS FAKE!! I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that but you had to learn it someday.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:35:54 AM EDT
Hey grimshaw, See you at the next ar15 shoot in Arizona, or maybe Derek's get together up in Flag come this September: You'll see what kind of people have cops as friends, and even hang around cops. Be sure to bring your SKS. Oh, and "Have A Nice Day" Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2001 5:44:48 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:45:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jomeokee: IMHO, this is truly a sad sad case. A 15 yr vet makes a mistake and innocent people die. Then the justice system gives him a bit of preferential treatment. There are no winners here, only losers.
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What "mistake" did this guy make? Did he mistakenly get drunk, knowing he was going to work? Did he mistakenly go to work, knowing he was drunk? How many times has he done this before and had it covered up? Yes, cops are held to a higher standard than the rest of us, and they'd damned well better be. It's not because they're paid with taxes taken from us. It's because they're given the power of arrest over us. Cops have the power of life or death over the rest of the citezenry. If I don't like a grocery store, barber or "techie", I can walk out the door and find another one. If a cop picks me and I don't like it, I'm stuck with him. No way out. He can shoot me or slap the cuffs on me. Name one "techie" with that power. I'd be screwed for doing 1/10 the things cops do every day and cover up for each other. That's the big thing that pisses off non LEO that post on the net. All the cops cover up for the bad ones. They'll close ranks around the worst scum bags imaginable. This makes all of them suspect. You won't find gun owners pulling this crap for other gun owners. Norm
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:55:58 AM EDT
Asking tough questions in a polite fashion isn't "cop bashing" (whatever that is) no matter how bad the answer makes the LEO profession look.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:33:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2001 8:42:04 AM EDT by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By Norm_G: You won't find gun owners pulling this crap for other gun owners. Norm
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Really? how many times have you or someone you know turned someone you know in for a firearms violation. If you've been around guns for anytime at all you've seen someone break a firearms related law of some kind. Don't say you haven't seen it because if you do you are not being honest. There are too many laws related to firearms for you not to have witnessed some type of violation. So, I ask again. Please tell us how many of your friends you have turned in for violating any law ever? How about we forget about law breakers and I just ask about all the people you have turned in for violating work rules? How about that. "Blue wall of silence" my ass. I'm not better than you I just have to act better than you. Thats how it works right? In other words you haven't got what it takes to do my job but your more than happy to tell me how to do it.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 9:14:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Waverunner: Hey Gun Guru....you have us all figured out right? I'm a dirty cop, I'm on the take, and I truly enjoy infringing on your rights. I'll tell you what, next time you're getting your ass kicked DO NOT call the police for help. Sincerely, NYC Police Officer Ray Q.
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You see, but I should of known, NYC. And they let you carry a gun? You already think your better than me because you have a badge. Take it away and your regular joe that was picked on in high school. GG
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 9:41:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: LEO's, don't let the same ignorant six out of 12,000 here ruffle your feathers.
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Your right, I'm done with this one.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:30:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2001 3:32:50 PM EDT by Gunrunner]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:45:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By critter_FR: Why not 4 counts of manslaughter?
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Because he probably had a previous dwi, flashed his shield at the judge, the chief or one of the lt`s is his personal friend, his uncle is the mayors assistant, WHATEVER......you get the idea.....[bounce]............politics RULES......[dracula]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:15:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2001 3:14:00 PM EDT by X--Kill]
Originally Posted By mejames: Being a cop is stressful. Who can blame him for knocking back a few before work. As long as it helps him make it thru the day. The accident is not his fault. Society is responsible for placing him in a situation where he must use alcohol to cope. Alcoholism is a disease, and instead of jail, he should be given counseling. With proper therapy, he can resume his life a productive law enforcement officer.
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Yeah...............probably had all those problems cause he had to carry a weapon and all.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:46:40 PM EDT
I don't think I am better than anybody. But I do a job hardly anyone wants (evident in this forum). The truth is that police are a percentage of the citizens. In any group, a certain percentage of people have drinking problems, mental problems and other defects. These same people are in every job. Departments try to weed these people out, but it is near impossible to do so before it is too late. And most of the time a lot of these things happen because of the stresses of the job(and people like gun guru). There will be good and bad people in any group. That officer should and will pay for his crime. It appears to me that his department took the right action against him.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:57:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:39:02 PM EDT
I am a cop, and this guy should not only have his ass fired, he should do time. this is absolutely, without a doubt, unacceptable. He should have known better is the understatement of the year, sort of like saying that the elephant had a little puffiness around his eyes, you know. ronnie
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:08:46 PM EDT
I think what people are against is the Police getting special treatment. I know it happens everywhere, you give a co-worker more slack than you would a normal person, but it definitly gets abused when LEO's get slaps on the wrists for doing bad crimes. Just like I think gun owners should educate their fellow owners about their responsibilities. I think peace officers should educate their co-workers.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:18:02 PM EDT
Beekeeper The "it must suck to be you" comment was sarcasm, the rest was my opinion. I should have put a smiley in there or something.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:25:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:37:28 PM EDT
Beekeeper No problem here ether. The last two days that I worked I caught a DWI both days and I'm happy about it. With the first one, he was arrested 7 times before for DWI, and convicted twice. I hope I can make this one stick.
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