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Posted: 1/4/2006 1:26:18 PM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=424271

I didn't want to hijack the above thread so I'm starting a new one. One of the posters mentioned that they are planning on replacing the HMMWV's in 6 years with an electric vehicle.

WTF? Is any of this true? If so, what's the story on the replacement?


-K
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:28:38 PM EDT
Beats me, but I'll take a surplus HMMWV any day of the week!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:30:18 PM EDT
There was a group buy on some old Marine Hummers here on ARFCOM a couple of years ago. IIRC, they were getting $13,000 each and they were located in California.


Aviator
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:30:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Beats me, but I'll take a surplus HMMWV any day of the week!

Watch them all get melted down into pots and pans, because they don't conform to civilian roadworthiness standards.


Once a machine-gun platform, always a machine gun platform.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:37:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Beats me, but I'll take a surplus HMMWV any day of the week!



Think about this statement. These vehicles have been in the sand pit for a few years. Think about haw badly they are worn and just plain hammered. Do you really want one now?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:40:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sslocal:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Beats me, but I'll take a surplus HMMWV any day of the week!



Think about this statement. These vehicles have been in the sand pit for a few years. Think about haw badly they are worn and just plain hammered. Do you really want one now?



Yup. Still do.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:43:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By sslocal:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Beats me, but I'll take a surplus HMMWV any day of the week!



Think about this statement. These vehicles have been in the sand pit for a few years. Think about haw badly they are worn and just plain hammered. Do you really want one now?



Yup. Still do.



+1
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:46:16 PM EDT
I would really love an armored Hummer as a farm truck.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:48:35 PM EDT

Some idiot in my hometown had several for sale, completely beat to shit with seats removed and everything.

Price: $35,000

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:55:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Some idiot in my hometown had several for sale, completely beat to shit with seats removed and everything.

Price: $35,000


The nice thing about capitalism is nobody bought one.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:11:56 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:21:00 PM EDT
I spent enough time with them to be unimpressed. They drink fuel, accelerate slowly, are noisy, and really really wide. Besides bragging rights I can't think of a reason that I'd ever want one. I much preferred the dune buggy that we were playing with that had a SAW mount on the passenger side and a M2 up top. Now that's a vehicle that I wouldn't mind having, but I imagine that they've all been melted down for use as spoons by now since the higher ups in the army didn't see it our way.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:29:41 PM EDT
I had a chevy blazer company car for use on construction job sites. We had a site which was sandstone after the topsoil was removed. Add rain you now have flowing sand/water mix. When the job was over it took over $4000 to repair the damage that the sand did to the drive train. No I don't want another sand vet.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:36:54 PM EDT
I doubt all HMMWVs are being replaced that quickly. However, it has been noted that the things are just being over-used in Iraq. What was initially designed to be a liaison and light cargo runabout has overgrown the chassis to be an armoured patrol vehicle. It's overweight, underpowered, and just not doing the job, with result that they're getting beat to crap.

For patrolling purposes, they are looking at trying to bring in a replacement vehicle quickly, but as a generic utility truck, I don't expect to see it withdrawn early.

Still, it's nigh on 20 years old now.

NTM
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:39:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aviator:
....IIRC, they were getting $13,000....




What they didn't tell you is the amount of $ it'll cost to restore it back to at least its original configuration or do an "upgrade".

Sure, you can buy a beat to shit Humvees for "pennies on the dollar" but the cost to fix it will be 3x as much. Normally, you're looking to spend at least 10k for a basic rebuild/restore.

Factor in another 10k for a stage 2 resto ( kevlar doors/hardtop with turret gunner platform, original .MIL comms and navs, slantback, etc... ).

By the end of your project, you have over 30k into it not counting the hard labor/busted up knuckles/cursing/spending your weekend at your garage/etc...

Not to mention, your wife will hate you for it, it's slow, loud, etc.

In the end though, what matters is that you enjoy working on it and offroading in an m998 is totally on another level.....



Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:42:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:46:43 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:42:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=424271

I didn't want to hijack the above thread so I'm starting a new one. One of the posters mentioned that they are planning on replacing the HMMWV's in 6 years with an electric vehicle.

WTF? Is any of this true? If so, what's the story on the replacement?


-K



Ther is no way they will go electric. That's got to be total bs. Electric cars will never work in the cold, you can't keep them warm without killing the batteries.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:55:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob243:

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By sslocal:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Beats me, but I'll take a surplus HMMWV any day of the week!



Think about this statement. These vehicles have been in the sand pit for a few years. Think about haw badly they are worn and just plain hammered. Do you really want one now?



Yup. Still do.



+1



+2 Not all of them will have been in the sand either. I love the deflective paint too. A guy I know up here has one he got a few years back and he restored it plus added some nicer seats, etc. Sweeeeeeeeet. I don't care that it only gets gallons per mile - It's not like it'll be my commuter car.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:56:33 PM EDT
The HMMWV will be in US Military service for quite a while but as I recall they are seeking a vehicle more suitable to Urban Combat/Patrol than a Hummer while the hummer will do what it was designed too.

Probably Something along the lines of the Japanese JGDSV(i think thats the name)
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:59:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scrum:
....I love the deflective paint too. A guy I know up here has one he got a few years back and he restored it plus added some nicer seats, etc. Sweeeeeeeeet. I don't care that it only gets gallons per mile - It's not like it'll be my commuter car.



Yep, CARC paint on Humvees rock...

Contrary to popular belief, the HMMWV is actually halfway decent on fuel mileage, if you keep it under 45 MPH, you should be getting an average 14-15 MPG.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:03:04 PM EDT
I've got a Hummer prototype out in my barn: a 1942 Dodge WC51. All the advantages of owning a Hummer,with none of the drawbacks (except a low top speed). It can haul a load of stuff home from Home Depot ,seats 8 in back,invincible 4WD,built strong like bull,looks intimidating in traffic,easy to work on.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:08:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Yes, a replacement is in development.

www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-23-humvee-designs_x.htm

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2005/Oct/UF-Marines_Seek.htm


Is the 75K price tag on the basic .mil Hummer in the USA today article correct?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:10:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:11:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jeep44:
I've got a Hummer prototype out in my barn: a 1942 Dodge WC51. All the advantages of owning a Hummer,with none of the drawbacks (except a low top speed). It can haul a load of stuff home from Home Depot ,seats 8 in back,invincible 4WD,built strong like bull,looks intimidating in traffic,easy to work on.




As much as I like American made trucks, I'll take a MOG or a Pinz over that '42 Dodge they're decent trucks though.

With respect to intimidating in traffic, the Humvees are no bigger than your average full size truck. In fact, an F350 is bigger than a Humvee. Although the humvee is slightly wider by 8" give or take, overall full size trucks are bigger than humvees, I don't know, where people get the idea that humvees are big, no they're not.

It gives you the look and feel of being in a much wider vehicle because you are seated to the far left and far right of it, there is a "tunnel" in between.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:18:44 PM EDT
They were developing a hybrid engine for the Humvee afaik.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:30:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 3:31:11 PM EDT by DanishM1Garand]
Why not these two???


Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:32:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 888:
With respect to intimidating in traffic, the Humvees are no bigger than your average full size truck. In fact, an F350 is bigger than a Humvee. Although the humvee is slightly wider by 8" give or take, overall full size trucks are bigger than humvees, I don't know, where people get the idea that humvees are big, no they're not.


[raises hand]
I know, for myself, it's the extra 8 inches in width that make them intimidating.
I hate that there is no way that I can get one in my driveway.

It also plays a factor in peoples perception, the F350 don't look as big in a rearview mirror as a hummer, eh?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:33:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 3:35:05 PM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
Why not these two???


www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newcars/military-jeep/Jeep_military_heading.jpg


Read the articles linked, the new truck is being designed around a basic armor package.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:44:30 PM EDT
I *used* to want one... That’s until I joined the Army and had to drive them! Even in "near-new" condition, they still sucked. Nothing is worse then driving from Seattle to the Yakima Firing Center in one. 45mph they drive somewhat nice, 50-60 you can almost hear Scotty yelling, "she's breaking apart captain!"
Getting out of one after a long drive, you can barely even walk; they are so uncomfortable to drive.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 4:30:52 PM EDT by GTLandser]

Originally Posted By Special-K:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=424271

I didn't want to hijack the above thread so I'm starting a new one. One of the posters mentioned that they are planning on replacing the HMMWV's in 6 years with an electric vehicle.

WTF? Is any of this true? If so, what's the story on the replacement?


-K




The replacement concept vehicles being developed are called the Ultra AP and 3T, for 'armored patrol' and 'armored transport' I believe.

They are being developed by GTRI (Georgia Tech Research Institute). Go to the GTRI home page, and look at their newsletter...I think the Fall 05' (or some other issue) discusses the concepts. You can also find high-res images of the vehicles there. Also try defensetech.org, defense industry daily, or similar web sites for coverage (though you'll likely learn little more than was put out in Tech's own blurbs).

The AP is designed on a Chevy heavy truck chassis, and features an independent suspension and armored bathtub for 4 passengers. The bathtub is a really odd geometric shape, with the seats inside arranged in a cross, so each is at maximum distance away from wheel-wells (wheels typically set off mines, so people are furthest from the effects theoretically). The AT looks like the Honda Element on steroids, and I think is meant to have a hybrid drive train to provide lots of power for soldier's electronics.

In case you didn't know, Tech is crawling in your defense dollars....lots of stuff crazy going on around
here...

Edit: corrected name of second vehicle, thanks Danish!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:07:50 PM EDT
A Hybrid Patrol Vehicle with the ablity to move very quietly on batteries alone would be a plus. It would permit you to creep past an area you knew contained the enemy with less chance of being noticed.

Good guy with NOD's spots bad guys with out. Switch over to batteries only to evac the area and call for fire. Good day for the home team, bad day for Haji.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:10:28 PM EDT
Ultra AP......
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:13:26 PM EDT
South Africa's Buffel has never lost a man to a mine IIRC.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:15:02 PM EDT
I used to think HMMWVs were great until I drove one around Iraq for a few months. Shitty mileage, uncomfortable ride, and constant mechanical problems. It does still make me smile when the Discovery Channel documentries say that it is impossible to flip one.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:16:20 PM EDT
Yup, that's the one.

I don't give two shits about the football here, but God how I am proud of my school when I see stuff like this.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:21:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:22:33 PM EDT


Ultra AT......and new wallpaper

This looks like what the hmmwv should have been.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:25:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
snip--but needs a source
for the TOW missile launcher tube.--snip


CJ



Aluminum tube in the almost right diameter? Can he get specs? Any good fabrication shop could duplicate it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:55:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryfe:
Is the 75K price tag on the basic .mil Hummer in the USA today article correct?



Not entirely. The basic M998 HMMWV is on the books at about $38K. The M1114 armoured version sets the taxpayer back $115K+

The paper may have just split the difference.

NTM
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:51:27 PM EDT
I've seen surplus HMMWVs on ebay, where they've done the mods necessary to make them Dept of Transportion legal.

I think they have to disable the black out lights, reinforce the dash, increase side impact protection, and something about needing rear facing exhaust.

Even one that's been beat, I'd still love to have. But there's some out there that are in good shape.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:01:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
Still, it's nigh on 20 years old now.

NTM


No reason to yank the basic vehicle. Its not the vehicles fault they tried to configure it for more missions than it was intended for.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:06:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
Still, it's nigh on 20 years old now.

NTM


No reason to yank the basic vehicle. Its not the vehicles fault they tried to configure it for more missions than it was intended for.



Take a look at most aircraft in the Air Force inventory.

There are jets built in the 1950s still flying today. Many aircraft flying today have gone through similar upgrades, where the jet isn't doing what it was originally intended to do.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Take a look at most aircraft in the Air Force inventory.

There are jets built in the 1950s still flying today. Many aircraft flying today have gone through similar upgrades, where the jet isn't doing what it was originally intended to do.


I'm well aware of that. They keep those AF planes in service wayy longer than they should. They also get wayy more PMCS than your average Hummer. They also dont expect a C5 to be a fighter or perform some other mission that its clearly not suited for, while the Hummer is in many ways to do-it-all vehicle for the Army if they can adapt the platform in some way for whatever mission they have in mind.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:06:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
The HMMWV will be in US Military service for quite a while but as I recall they are seeking a vehicle more suitable to Urban Combat/Patrol than a Hummer while the hummer will do what it was designed too.

Probably Something along the lines of the Japanese JGDSV(i think thats the name)

Google didn't find that vehicle.




Its actually a JGSDF Light Armored Vehicle used by the Japanese Ground forces in Iraq. I couldn't find a picture of it though, but did find many scaled models using yahoo.

Not saying THIS is what the US is going to just a similar Idea
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:15:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dieforalatte:
I *used* to want one... That’s until I joined the Army and had to drive them! Even in "near-new" condition, they still sucked. Nothing is worse then driving from Seattle to the Yakima Firing Center in one. 45mph they drive somewhat nice, 50-60 you can almost hear Scotty yelling, "she's breaking apart captain!"
Getting out of one after a long drive, you can barely even walk; they are so uncomfortable to drive.



I liked them in Yakima, we would take our Humvee's up Hog Butte, through big ass mud holes, and drive like crazy men in the snow downrange. I also drove them several times through Snoquamie Pass to Ft Lewis, not bad in snow in the pass.

If you want real suckage, the Deuce and half is a real whore. Farking slow, accelleration of a tortise, and always good to blow seals.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:32:09 PM EDT
No way in hel would I buy a surplus HMMWV. We dropped ours from planes, rolled them in ditches, had drive shafts just fall off while going down the road, etc. Those things have been beyond used and abused in most cases. Also, as already pointed out, they are uncomfortable to drive, take up entire lanes of travel of the road, and are extremely loud. I'm not in the military anymore and dont have a desire to be back inside of a HMMWV or any of the nwe generations of civie Hummers.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:39:38 PM EDT
Maxim had an article last month on two General Dynamics’ electric vehicles.



Article at Maximonline.com

Woosaa
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