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Posted: 1/3/2006 2:49:10 PM EDT
Any advice?
Experiences?
Tool Loans?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:50:41 PM EDT
what kind of texture? walls or ceiling?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:00:12 PM EDT
Details, details.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:06:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:07:42 PM EDT
don't buy any books they will tell you how to do it the half-assed bob vila way
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:10:41 PM EDT
You'll need a decent air compressor, "texture gun", and heavy duty drill to stir up the sheetrock compound (it must be stirred up real good too).

For Walls:
Other than that, pour the stuff in the gun and spray on wall. You will of course decide on the gun's nozzle setting which will dictate the size of the spray. Stay away from wall about 3 to 4 feet, just give a quick shot on the wall to test the pattern and go. You will need to shake the gun every now and again as you will get some airpockets in the mix. It is really simple!!!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:13:02 PM EDT
IBTHR

(In before trijicog hivemind rant)
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:14:01 PM EDT
I know all about it, but I'm not going to tell you because you said "hivemind".
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:23:04 PM EDT
On my projects so far (2 flood repairs, a utility room, and an office addition), I've used my neighbor's semi-cheap Homax texture gun (it's air compressor-driven, about $40 IIRC). I use the lightweight compound thinned with water to about the consistency of pancake batter.

--Mike
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:28:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 3:28:12 PM EDT by MTNmyMag]
There are tons of different types of textures, if you want to do a spray on finish (orange peal, knock down etc) I suggest you go to Home Depot and rent a Spray machine and do not use a hopper gun.

There are also alot of trowel and or knife textures that you can do many of which take alot of skill to accomplish correctly and I couldnt tell you how to do it, by typing it
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:28:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcaswell:
On my projects so far (2 flood repairs, a utility room, and an office addition), I've used my neighbor's semi-cheap Homax texture gun (it's air compressor-driven, about $40 IIRC). I use the lightweight compound thinned with water to about the consistency of pancake batter.

--Mike



All purpose or topping works best for texturing(you get a lot more pock marks from air bubbles with LW)

I only use LW for coating and skimming (shrinks less and is a lot easier to sand)
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:39:00 PM EDT
if you want to get by on the cheap, use a short medium bristle brush and joint compound, add a little water to the JC, mix well and use the brush to apply to walls in a daub sweep motion to keep from creating large peaks, for the ceiling use strait JC and put a handle on brush and apply, use a daubling motion when applying , this tecnique gives peaks to the compound and looks good.


MLW>"<
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:48:39 PM EDT
I'd say it depends on how large an area you're doing. If you're talking about a patch replair, etc.. I wouldn't recommend a hopper for that, you should be able to accomplish this w/ the spray-can stuff.

If you're doing a large area though, definitely go with an Air Compressor / Hopper setup.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:50:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rwinn625:
don't buy any books they will tell you how to do it the half-assed bob vila way



Ya, he's right. You're much better learning how to drywall from an internet gun board.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:55:47 PM EDT
We do over a million dollars worth of drywall work per year, so I can get you dialed in. Just need to know what you are trying to accomplish before making a recommendation.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:26:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 7:27:04 PM EDT by azcopwannabee]

Originally Posted By Cope:
We do over a million dollars worth of drywall work per year, so I can get you dialed in. Just need to know what you are trying to accomplish before making a recommendation.



I don't have a good picture of it but here is a pretty good description.

Someone... textured the kitchen and laundry room walls with a TILE KNIFE, the kind you use to put tile adhesive down with. Part of it is Swirly and part of it is like SWIPES at a 45 Deg angle. Some places it is up to a 1/4 inch deep from top of ridges to the surface. It looks like hell and then they painted it light babyshit green. The whole frickin kitchen has been Bubba'ed up!

I need to remove the old texture, not sure how, and retexture.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:39:34 PM EDT
Dont know how to do it but the knockdown or whatever they call it looks nice with the right paint. I have it on my walls and ceiling.



Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:53:28 PM EDT
Thats what I want but with smaller flat areas. ^^^^^^^^^^
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:02:49 AM EDT
Step one - remove old drywall (trust me you will thank me in the long run)

Step Two - install new drywall

Step Three - Tape and Finish new drywall to a level 3 or 4

Step Five - Go to home depot rent a spray machine from the tool rental area

Step Six - spray prepared drywall compound through machine and onto walls

Step Seven - allow to dry only until the edges around the blobs of compound begin to look siff

Step Eight - knock down with Trowel by passing trowel lightly over the entire surface of the wall
in a slow even pattern.
Step Nine - Drink alot of beer while Texture is drying

Step Ten - Poke yourself in both eyes very hard

Step Eleven - Go inspect your finished handy work
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:21:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 5:36:59 AM EDT by Cope]
You have your work cut out for you in removing the cobbled up mess previously applied. Especially if you want a knockdown texture. In my opinion, you have a few options. Each method requires an attempt at scraping off as much of the existing texture as possible. The paint makes it that much more difficult to remove. You just have to take an 8", 10", or 12" drywall knife and start scraping off the high spots. Unless it has been wet previously from a roof or plumbing leak, you will not be able to remove all the existing pattern. Of course, you will want to cover everything with clear plastic prior to doing anything.

What I would do after scraping as much as possible (Ranked from simple to difficult):

Option 1.) Simply spray the piss out of the ceiling with coarse acoustic "popcorn" spray. This comes in a bag. Just add water per instructions on bag. A plastic trash can works well for mixing popcorn spray. The COARSE popcorn will hide virtually anything.

Option 2.) Hang 1/4" drywall directly over the existing drywall. Dependant upon the thickness of the first layer of drywall previously installed, you will need coarse threaded wood screws at least 1-1/2" in length. You can finish and texture the new drywall by any means you deem appealing. Heck, you can leave it slick like the walls if you so desire. Be considerate of the electrical fixtures if you use this method. You will probably need longer screws to mount the light fixture once the 1/4" layer of new drywall is applied. If the box is pretty much flush with the existing ceiling surface, you shouldn't have to lower it down into the new layer. Otherwise, you may need to cut a hole around the box just large enough to be able to lower the box. (To cover my butt, I do not condone or recommend doing electrical work yourself.)

Option 3.) Apply multiple skim coats of Durabond to the existing ceiling in an attempt to fill in the low areas. Durabond will dry much quicker than typical ready mix compound. For a weekend warrior, I wouldn't recommend anything quicker setting than the 90 minute formula. The final skim coat should be of ready mix. Sand smooth and apply texture of choice.

It all boils down to how much effort you want to put into it. Option one is a surefire way to make it turn out. The other two options require much more time and skill. The biggest issue people run into when they decide to apply an orange peel or knock down texture (instead of popcorn) is that they don't realize just how nicely finished and sanded the drywall needs to be. Please make sure the surface is smooth and would actually be acceptable to paint if no texture were applied at all. Otherwise, you will not be happy with the results.

Regardless of which texture you go with, you can do fine with a standard hopper gun rig on a kitchen ceiling. Bagged spray for popcorn, or diluted ready mix for orange peel or knock down. Popcorn will not necessarily require paint. The other textures will.

In case you are unsure of the difference between orange peel and knock down textures, there are a couple differences that dictate the final result. 1.) Orange peel is typically sprayed with a smaller hole setting on the hopper, and not nearly as heavy as knock down. Once spray is uniformly applied, leave it alone until it is completely dry. 2.) Knock down is sprayed heavier, and must be very lightly dragged with a drywall knife across the surface after it dries a bit. The key to knockdown is letting it dry long enough, but not too long. If you knock it down too soon after spraying, the texture will have very large flat spots in it. If you wait too long, you will get drag marks in the texture from little chunks of dried compound.

Hope that helps. If I were you, I would seriously consider popcorn. Hard to goof up popcorn.



ETA: Check out this link. MikeBellDrywall

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:54:39 AM EDT
I answered you in the AZHTF, bro, but will do so here in case you miss it.

I have a hopper gun (texture gun) and compressor you are welcome to borrow, as well as all the sheetrock tools you need and mixing bit and drill, etc.

But now that I know what your walls currently have, I have to agree that removing the existing is the only way to go. Buy me a case of beer and I'll do it with you if you're not comfortable going it alone. We'll need to either scrape all the old crap off, sand, re-tape and finish, and then texture and paint; or just replace the old rock with new stuff. The latter is much easier, but will run you a few extra bucks in sheetrock.

The finish you are desiring, by your description, is an orangepeel - which I have the nozzle for. If you do it yourself, you're better off getting a bag of orangepeel texture rather than trying to create your own. But like I said, a case of beer and I'll do it if you'll help me with the labor. Oh, I'm in Phoenix.

Cope has some really good advice, but you will regret using popcorn. It is impossible to clean, collects vast amount of dust and dirt you can't vacuum out, and is constantly getting rubbed and falling off. True that you can't mess it up, but I really wouldn't even consider popcorn for walls.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:19:22 AM EDT
did it- its not too hard- just practice on a hidden area-it also does not look like much when sprayed on- you really cant tell how texured it is until primed - just dont keep spraying and over do it!

I did a bathroom and it did not turn out too bad, but I watched others do it before. one thing I did notice is that they did one direction then the other in two "layers"
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:44:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 6:47:45 AM EDT by richardh247]

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
did it- its not too hard- just practice on a hidden area-it also does not look like much when sprayed on- you really cant tell how texured it is until primed - just dont keep spraying and over do it!

I did a bathroom and it did not turn out too bad, but I watched others do it before. one thing I did notice is that they did one direction then the other in two "layers"



Yes, it's like airless painting... You need to keep a wet edge and adjust for overspray. Since the mud comes out thicker in the middle and thinner at the edges, you do a coat diagonally and then reverse the direction to avoid lines from the overspray.

ETA: If you do it again and want to see the texture applied before primer, tint the texture when mixing with a little blue chalk (like you use in chalk lines). This will make it blue, and will stand out on the wall so you can actually follow and adjust your spray pattern. Any color chalk works, of course.

This also works well when doing sheetrock repairs in multiple rooms. You tint it that way when it dries you can see where you need to sand, rather than trying to remember where you repaired.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:16:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:
Cope has some really good advice, but you will regret using popcorn. It is impossible to clean, collects vast amount of dust and dirt you can't vacuum out, and is constantly getting rubbed and falling off. True that you can't mess it up, but I really wouldn't even consider popcorn for walls.



I evidently missed where he said he was doing walls. No way you would ever want to put popcorn on the walls, unless it was up inside a skylight or way out of reach. Popcorn is simply a quick, cheap, and failsafe cure for ceilings. I agree, as long as you are going to help him out, do it right. for offering to help him.

I have had many people call me to fix their mess when they thought they could handle it without the proper tools and skills. People can't understand why we can install new drywall cheaper than we can straighten out their cobbled up mess. Buying the new board is cheap when you factor in labor costs for multiple skim coats and sanding to get the surface back to slick.

Unless there is water damage, I still see no need to remove existing board. When you do, you find yourself removing door casing, baseboard, and any crown molding present. 1/4" board over the existing, flat taped to the wood, is the most efficient method in my opinion.

Regardless, I'm confident you will get him squared away.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:47:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cope:

Originally Posted By richardh247:
Cope has some really good advice, but you will regret using popcorn. It is impossible to clean, collects vast amount of dust and dirt you can't vacuum out, and is constantly getting rubbed and falling off. True that you can't mess it up, but I really wouldn't even consider popcorn for walls.



I evidently missed where he said he was doing walls. No way you would ever want to put popcorn on the walls, unless it was up inside a skylight or way out of reach. Popcorn is simply a quick, cheap, and failsafe cure for ceilings. I agree, as long as you are going to help him out, do it right. for offering to help him.

I have had many people call me to fix their mess when they thought they could handle it without the proper tools and skills. People can't understand why we can install new drywall cheaper than we can straighten out their cobbled up mess. Buying the new board is cheap when you factor in labor costs for multiple skim coats and sanding to get the surface back to slick.

Unless there is water damage, I still see no need to remove existing board. When you do, you find yourself removing door casing, baseboard, and any crown molding present. 1/4" board over the existing, flat taped to the wood, is the most efficient method in my opinion.

Regardless, I'm confident you will get him squared away.



1/4 board, liquid nails, and longer screws is probably the way to go. Given his description of the current texture, I'll wager a WWB of 45 that he has plaster instead of rock existing - sounds exactly like what the old plaster was usually finished with. But it can still be done, just have to remove the case molding, trim, and crown to not make an overhang.

And I'm a sparky by trade A couple of Socco rings to meet gap requirements and we'll be in business. Just hard to tell exactly what he has without pics.

I totally agree about fixing other peoples' messes. It's amazing just how far someone can continue when it's obvious they are only making mistake after mistake, LOL. Had a guy one time mix his popcorn so wet and spray it on so thick the sheetrock paper peeled and the whole finish fell down from the ceiling. I kid you not - I know, cause in 94 I WAS that guy I make a lot of money now fixing others' screw ups.

Hopefully he'll accept the help and want to do it right. Between the two of us 2 rooms is only a day's job minus drying times. A weekend at the most including drying times. He's a good guy from what I've seen in his posts, and I have no problem offering freebies for good people. Gimme a few beers and some rock and roll and I am good to go!

Thanks for all your help, bro. I concur that 1/4" board is the way to go - cheapest, fastest, easiest... And will give him exactly the finish he is looking for.

AZcopwannabee

Judging by your description, you're looking at about $75 if we do new rock, and that includes mud, texture, everything but paint. I probably have enough mud to do it, too, which you can have for free. I have all the adhesive, tape, mud, and screws. Hell, I can probably snag you the rock for free, too. Let me get with my buddy and see if he's going to have extra.

If you can, give me some dimentions or, better yet, pics with dimentions. Then I can tell you EXACTLY what we'll need (or you'll need if you want this a solo project).
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:28:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 1:33:04 PM EDT by Cope]
richardh247,

That's really cool of you to seriously offer to help someone you have never met before. Especially doing something as crappy as drywall. No telling what kind of structure he resides, but it is highly possible that it has plaster instead of drywall. Most old style plaster originally had a sand finish on it. Trying to match that sand finish with a patch has created many headaches and messes. That's usually when you see that someone has gone nuts with a tile trowel to cover up their patches that didn't blend in. If it is plaster, you definitely don't want to tear it out or you will have a mess on your hands that you didn't need to create. I would lay down the bet, if I saw a pic. I could use another box of WWB 45.

That's a trip about your ceiling. I guess you proved me wrong. I just thought spraying popcorn was foolproof.

Be sure to check out the door casing and base before tearing it off. 9 times out of 10 you can simply cut the new 1/4" drywall tight to it, and then simply flat tape the crack between the drywall and the wood trim. The reveal will shrink (assuming it is at least 1/2"), but if you take the door and window casing off you will have to fill the gap created behind the casing where the new drywall is installed behind the casing. If you have a square edge on the outside of the door and window casing, you should be good to go. The top of the base can be tricky if it has a milled profile. Even if it does, you can still flat tape over the profile. It will look slightly different, but will still save a bunch of hassle. If the top of the base is flat, it will be a piece of cake. Just be sure to fill the crack full of mud before taping. Otherwise you will have blisters popping up after the texture and paint goes on.

I have to deal with this crap every day, and here I am talking drywall on a forum that is supposed to be for entertainment...... Hope some of this has been beneficial to someone. That's what I love about ARF though. No matter what question you may have, it will be answered here in GD. Believe it or not, but my wife was amazed when I asked the question on a gun board about what color corsage to wear on Easter Sunday.





Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:56:06 PM EDT
He's exactly right, but if you poke your eyes use a blunt onbject
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:59:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:45:51 PM EDT by azcopwannabee]
WOW!

I don't know what to say!!!



­

<­BR>



Except for what brand of beer do you drink!?

Talk about generousity!!

Thank you very much Richardh247 for your offer and I will gladly take you up on it!!

I have no desire to spend a week Screwing up my house and have to call you to rescue me.

I am sure that the construction of the house is just framing and drywall. Here are some pictures. It was built in 1985. As you can see.... its horrible. Its also on the stairs and the master bathroom. Its like a Bad rash, they put it in weird places and it gets on your nerves.

My father in law is wanting to paint the day we close, he has a sprayer and used to paint professionally.

The tentative close date is Jan 24th. If we can close early we can start tearing the old crap down while my FIL is painting upstairs. Hopefully we can be done by the time he gets downstairs.

If not, he can wait. I can't pass up a deal like this. Me and my wife are already strapped just to get out of the apartment scene. As long as we can get most of it done before we move stuff in it will be much easier. Closing early will give us more time.

This is awesome. There are some really great people on this board. I really applaude you all.
The good ones really do float to the top while the turds sink.

ETA: Thank you Cope for the great ceiling advise, I actually have a small section that has old water damage that I will replace. So it wasn't wasted.

ETA2: Pics fixed, smaller and different account. Should last longer.


Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:21:26 PM EDT
Sorry to hijack the thread, but what do you guys think about mixing paint in with the texture instead of water? I'm doing a heavy popcorn and I heard this is the way to go. I'm going to spray my ceiling this weekend.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:26:00 PM EDT
Never tried It, We haven't used popcorn around here for years, Ive only sprayed it twice and never mixed paint in it. I have seen glitter in it but thats pretty gay.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:29:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:32:04 PM EDT by MTNmyMag]
Holy Crap that Texture is a sin against anyone who ever has done a finish job!

ETA it doesnt matter what you do it will lot better than that!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:40:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:46:55 PM EDT by azcopwannabee]
Hold on, I have to rehost the pics to a different account.

ETA: Done!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, its sucks and some of it is sharp too.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:59:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 4:01:21 PM EDT by topknot]
RichardH, you are one of the nicest folks I've never met.

You are a good human being. :)

ETA: actually now that I've seen pics - that is a rather interesting texture. Very rough and rustic looking. Are you sure you don't want to keep that?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:28:53 PM EDT
Yes TopKnot, I am very sure.

I don't even like colors, everything is white till the wife bugs me enough to use a color.

Its the color plus the texture!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:32:44 PM EDT
YES!!!

******HIVEMIND ALERT!!!*****

Use a beehive to texture your drywall.

That is all.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:37:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eli75:
Sorry to hijack the thread, but what do you guys think about mixing paint in with the texture instead of water? I'm doing a heavy popcorn and I heard this is the way to go. I'm going to spray my ceiling this weekend.



You can mix paint with the texture. May still need to add some water in order to get it thin enough to spray. A gallon of paint per bag of spray will be more than sufficient. Otherwise, it will cost more than it should on paint. Water is cheap. Mixing paint in the texture will help seal it up, and make it more durable when removing cobwebs with a broom in six months. It will also help hide the raw board being sprayed (If not previously painted). Spraying a coat of paint on after it is textured is the best way to seal it all up though. If you're not going to prime before spraying texture, put it on heavy. Just go for it up until the point that it nearly falls in the floor.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:45:27 PM EDT


Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:53:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cope:
www.geocities.com/dyctator/craptexture3a.jpg




OMG!!!!!!

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:15:16 PM EDT
Yeah I know....

The people who we are buying it from are employed at Home Depot.

Aparrently they don't work in the Drywall and finishing department, nor do they have friends who do.

The do SEEM to lay good tile but I bet ya a box of WWB 45 that they didn't use any wonderboard or floor leveler under it!!!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:14:24 AM EDT
Yep, 1/4" board over top.

Shoot me a PM so we can exchange phone numbers and make a date, bro. I'll get you a list of materials needed I don't have. Plan on 2 days since we have to mud cornerbead.

And you're welcome, bro. Always happy to help a good guy in any way I can.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:57:23 AM EDT
Damn! I've done my share of "hobo's ass" lookin work but that's just nasty...!

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:
Yep, 1/4" board over top.

Plan on 2 days since we have to mud cornerbead.




Since you are trying to get it done in a hurry, might want to get a bag or two of 45 min Durabond to run the beads. Not nosing in on your gig here, but I'll be surprised if you get all that done in 2 days. 2 weekends seems more appropriate to me to make sure it turns out. Just thought I'd recommend quicker setting DB for the beads. Those things take forever to dry. If you happen to have some type of small squirrel cage blower fan to put in the area, you can dry it out in a hurry. I have one that came out of a mobile home furnace, and it blows like crazy in a precise direction. Small, but powerful.

What kind of texture is on that lowered ceiling where you are planning to put a new bead across the header below the duct air diffuser? An area that narrow may be best to address with a few skim coats instead of another layer and corner bead. Whatever you are butting into is always a concern when deciding which way to address a problem. How are you going to butt into the higher (white) ceiling?
I would definitely just wrap that column in new drywall and bead, unless it is flush with the face of the wall above. A lot of factors to consider before jumping in with both feet. Don't think that you have to treat each area the same, or you may wind up creating more work than necessary.

Just thinking out loud here as I look at the pics. Tell me to mind my own business if I am stepping on any toes, Rich. You are awesome for helping AZ.

Good luck,

Cope
aka Eyeball Drywall

PS - I failed to congratulate you on your new place, AZ. It is very nice, and if you take your time in doing any improvements it will be just the way you want it. (Not saying to keep Rich tied up for a month of Sundays though.)

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:00:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cope:

Originally Posted By richardh247:
Yep, 1/4" board over top.

Plan on 2 days since we have to mud cornerbead.




Since you are trying to get it done in a hurry, might want to get a bag or two of 45 min Durabond to run the beads. Not nosing in on your gig here, but I'll be surprised if you get all that done in 2 days. 2 weekends seems more appropriate to me to make sure it turns out. Just thought I'd recommend quicker setting DB for the beads. Those things take forever to dry. If you happen to have some type of small squirrel cage blower fan to put in the area, you can dry it out in a hurry. I have one that came out of a mobile home furnace, and it blows like crazy in a precise direction. Small, but powerful.

What kind of texture is on that lowered ceiling where you are planning to put a new bead across the header below the duct air diffuser? An area that narrow may be best to address with a few skim coats instead of another layer and corner bead. Whatever you are butting into is always a concern when deciding which way to address a problem. How are you going to butt into the higher (white) ceiling?
I would definitely just wrap that column in new drywall and bead, unless it is flush with the face of the wall above. A lot of factors to consider before jumping in with both feet. Don't think that you have to treat each area the same, or you may wind up creating more work than necessary.

Just thinking out loud here as I look at the pics. Tell me to mind my own business if I am stepping on any toes, Rich. You are awesome for helping AZ.

Good luck,

Cope
aka Eyeball Drywall

PS - I failed to congratulate you on your new place, AZ. It is very nice, and if you take your time in doing any improvements it will be just the way you want it. (Not saying to keep Rich tied up for a month of Sundays though.)




Yeah, two days might have been a little optomistic on my part, but we only live 15 minutes away from each other. If we get the rock and bead hung and mudded real early, I should be able to do an initial sanding by evening and apply the second, then final it Sunday morning. None of this includes time to paint, of course - his father in law is handling that.

I'm not concerned about my time, only his and his wife's. I'm disabled (which is why I need the labor help), so I have a fair amount of time on my hands and prefer to use it giving good people a hand where possible. Camy doesn't drink, and I don't drive, so I just crank the music and put a cold beer on the ladder and take my time and make it fun. I just helped Camy's brother's ex lay 3 rooms and a hallway of carpet, and I don't think I've ever laughed so hard in my life - we were having fun while working to the point we had to take a ton of breaks to catch our breath from laughing so hard. Yeah, we went through a LOT of beer, too! But the carpet turned out fantastic considering they were using used carpet so it was tough laying out the seams.

As far as butting into areas, that's something I won't know for certain until I get there. The pictures only say so much and, like you said, there is no reason to commit to doing every area the same. We'll need to scope it out before we buy materials, and then we'll talk timelines. More than likely, though, a few skim coats to merge the 1/4" rock into anything existing will be the way to go, and we'll just wrap the columns and bead them. The walls meeting the ceiling look like they'll be good to go butting and inside cornering, and when I blow texture I'll tape off the skylight hole and shoot the ceiling when I shoot the walls. That should give us an un-noticable transition without jumping through too many hoops. Meeting up to that popcorn texture is going to be time-extensive and a challenge, and I'm not certain what I'll do there yet. Will wait until I see it in person.

Part of the fun of doing a job of this nature is designing it in your head and figuring on trouble areas. It never happens exactly the way it gets planned, but I really do enjoy the challenge and learning new ways on each job. There's always a better way, so please don't even begin to think I'd consider you to be "butting in on my gig." Conversely, I really appreciate any and all input, especially from guys like you that do this every day to put the food on your table. And I have no doubt AZcopwannabee does too!

I do property management now, so I get to do a wide myriad of tasks. Not trying to toot my own horn, but I do great work and treat every job like it's my own home. I've made my share of mistakes and have learned from them, paid my penalties in lost revenue, and moved on to do it better and faster the next time. It's the one aspect of my current job I really love, and working for myself means I can decide which jobs I can do and which ones I sub out. But when I sub them out I'm on site, watching and asking questions and analyzing methods. When I was a commercial foreman in the electrical field, I'd spend a lot of time with the other trades chatting it up, and we traded out a lot of work after hours. I'd do electric work for a guy who'd do my tile, and we'd teach each other as we were doing it, each acting like the others' helper. It's a fantastic way to both save money and learn new skills while improving your home.

Anyway, I'm just chatting it up here, enjoying a day off. I did a remodel of a one bedroom, and it turned out great! New carpet, all new tile countertops and tub surround, new ceramic tile floors, etc. We re-did everything and cut no corners. If you'd like some pics, email me with your email addy and I'll send you the zip file I am sending the owners. Talk about a friggin mess... Behind the surround we found 5 different materials for the wall: 2 kinds of rock, OSB, plywood, and something I couldn't even tell you what the hell it was. Get this: the seams were taped with Duct tape The surround itself was screwed to the wall.

When you butt your new rock to a ceiling with popcorn, what do you find easiest and best to make it a great transition? I usually take the header and split the measurements into thirds. The middle third gets a strip of rock, and the top and bottom third get skim coats until I get a perfectly flat surface with a slope that won't be noticed with shadows from the lights. Other guys I know will mud the bottom third, and run their rock to the ceiling and them caulk the transition (not sure I like that idea, though). What's your preferred method?

Oh, and I'll be sure to bring the ol camera and post pics of before, during, and after.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:14:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azcopwannabee:
Yeah I know....

The people who we are buying it from are employed at Home Depot.

Aparrently they don't work in the Drywall and finishing department, nor do they have friends who do.

The do SEEM to lay good tile but I bet ya a box of WWB 45 that they didn't use any wonderboard or floor leveler under it!!!



Wow, I was just going to say that the texture looks like they were going to tile it. Now it all makes sense.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:02:08 AM EDT
I got a camera Rich. I was planning the same thing, Before, during and after. Maybe even with some finer technique points highlighted. Like "here is Az wearing 2 gallons of drywall compound" and such.

That isnt a skylight, its a recess that USED to have flouresent lighting but now has track, old crappy track lighting.


I agree with Rich on the trade service for service deal. Its the best way to learn things. We do it in the Army, I have done it at work.

Let me see If I can get us IN to check out the place and start working on a plan. Maybe this Saturday morning or something. We don't have they keys yet.

My eventual plans for the place are:

Redo the Entire kitchen with Black granite, and maple cabinets, maybe add a small Island. Move the apliances around to maximize counter space. Maybe add cabinets to the open area over the bar or a pot hanger or a combo pot hanger wine (Booze) rack.

I want to pull the carpet in the livingroom and replace with wood laminate strips. I want to see what is under the carpet on the stairs, maybe go wood there too. I would like to put wrought Iron rails in the stiarway.

This stuff is alot cheaper when you do it yourself, I have assisted my father in law many times and I estimate my contribution to his work saved him about 15 grand in labor.

Just so we are clear on this Rich, your just the supervisor. Hold your beer and say things like, "Nope, a little to the left... No, to your other left!" and "Its ok, I think I can fix that."

I'm a fast learner
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:04:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azcopwannabee:
I got a camera Rich. I was planning the same thing, Before, during and after. Maybe even with some finer technique points highlighted. Like "here is Az wearing 2 gallons of drywall compound" and such.

That isnt a skylight, its a recess that USED to have flouresent lighting but now has track, old crappy track lighting.


I agree with Rich on the trade service for service deal. Its the best way to learn things. We do it in the Army, I have done it at work.

Let me see If I can get us IN to check out the place and start working on a plan. Maybe this Saturday morning or something. We don't have they keys yet.

My eventual plans for the place are:

Redo the Entire kitchen with Black granite, and maple cabinets, maybe add a small Island. Move the apliances around to maximize counter space. Maybe add cabinets to the open area over the bar or a pot hanger or a combo pot hanger wine (Booze) rack.

I want to pull the carpet in the livingroom and replace with wood laminate strips. I want to see what is under the carpet on the stairs, maybe go wood there too. I would like to put wrought Iron rails in the stiarway.

This stuff is alot cheaper when you do it yourself, I have assisted my father in law many times and I estimate my contribution to his work saved him about 15 grand in labor.

Just so we are clear on this Rich, your just the supervisor. Hold your beer and say things like, "Nope, a little to the left... No, to your other left!" and "Its ok, I think I can fix that."

I'm a fast learner



Ooooo, Oooooo, I smell future contracts! Dude, anything you want done, give me a chance to bid on it.

I'll give you the Arfcom discount. Not to mention, I am a veteran. Veterans, teachers, cops, firefighters, etc always get special deals. I can beat any bid by 20% or more, and do a better job with a longer warranty (I give a 2-year, versus the 1-year norm).

But that's another conversation for later and after you've seen that I can do what I say.

Is there going to be hookers and blow?

If you want to shoot for Sat morning, I'm cool with that. I have a truck if you don't to haul sheetrock and stuff, and we'll get a material list going. I'll call you 1500 today.

As for stupervising, I can't do that with any real efficiency. I HAVE to work. I was always getting into deep shit with the upper management because I'd leave my little office on the job site to throw on my tools and bust ass. They hated it. They wanted me to walk around with my wittle clipboard and my Nextel and leave my tools in my truck. No thanks, I can manage people while working myself. I can see a 40-man crew spread out over a huge site, but a dozen guys and gals working close to each other? There's no reason not to get in there and get dirty and cut the man-hours down.

I'm one of those fruitcakes tht actually likes busting my ass. I like hanging sheetrock and installing tile and carpet and roughing in a house. Folks from this site get that labor for beer. Yeah, it's nice to make money, but money ain't worth the satisfaction of helping good people out. And what comes around goes around, ya know? When someone else needs a hand, you'll remember what I did and do the same for them because you appreciate it. Nice guys may finish last, but we don't get as winded when we run the race.

And the really good news is that I drink cheap beer. Milwaukees Best Light, to be exact. A 30-block of that is a day's labor for 13 bucks

Hey, if you're looking to replace those old lighting fixtures, don't go spend any money. My buddy is head Indian at a large electrical contracting company here, and he gets new shit like that for free all the time - cheaper than a restocking fee to just keep it. And he's a great guy who just gives me the stuff if I ask for it, and I help him in his house with the things like tile and carpet and playing bitch when he's working.

So don't sweat anything, brother. Veterans look after veterans, and we'll get you fucking hooked up like a playa on Van Buren! Be stylin, yo. Chillin like a villin. Dude, I am way too white to be talking like this...

I actually love doing this stuff.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:40:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 10:55:26 AM EDT by Cope]

Originally Posted By richardh247:

When you butt your new rock to a ceiling with popcorn, what do you find easiest and best to make it a great transition? I usually take the header and split the measurements into thirds. The middle third gets a strip of rock, and the top and bottom third get skim coats until I get a perfectly flat surface with a slope that won't be noticed with shadows from the lights. Other guys I know will mud the bottom third, and run their rock to the ceiling and them caulk the transition (not sure I like that idea, though). What's your preferred method?



I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are saying about " I usually take the header and split the measurements into thirds. The middle third gets a strip of rock, and the top and bottom third get skim coats...". If you are referring to the 10"+/- high strip of wall that transitions between the two ceiling heights in the pic (let's call it a ceiling brake), here is the way I would do it.

Hang the 10"+/- rip of new 1/4" board. Attach your typical corner bead along the bottom of the ceiling brake. Here's the trick that you have been missing all your life. Are you ready for a beautiful way to transition to the textured ceiling? When I discovered this stuff several years ago, it was an instant romance. Not as quick as flat taping up to an adjacent surface, but very nice when done. OK, what you want to use at the top of the wall where it meets the textured ceiling is "Tear Away L Bead". Staple, or screw it on. Once the board, corner bead, and L Bead are installed, take a 12" knife and fill the entire area between the beads full of compound. Once you finish with your final sanding, or even the painting, simply tear the tab off the L Bead. You can either leave it as is, or run a bed of caulk in the gap. In this case, be sure to leave a big 1/4" gap between the top of the new drywall and the textured ceiling. This will allow room for the bead to fit, yet not press so hard on the ceiling that it flakes off the texture. Only one downside to this particular application. The Tear Away Bead is not readily available for 1/4" board. If you can't find 1/4" bead, I would still go ahead buy the 1/2" bead and trim half of the lip off that tucks in behind the new drywall. I just noticed that they make it in a flat version as well. You probably won't be able to get this stuff at Lowes or Home Depot, but most any drywall yard will have it. The pic below should be self explanatory. This stuff is awesome for butting up to a block wall, aluminum window frames, or any other substrate that is not drywall. If you run into these type of repairs on a somewhat regular basis, just buy some extra flat pieces. They won't seal up the end of the board, but will work great in creating a clean transition on most any application.



Trim-Tex
Killer Corner Beads Too


ETA: Hey man, I just thought of something else to save a few steps. Don't wrap the column with rock. Just put new corner beads on. Fill them full of mud, and shazaam!



Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:27:44 PM EDT
Most outstanding, Cope! Thanks, bro.

What I meant with my original "thirds" statement was like this:

You have a soffit of 12", which needs new rock. On the top, the soffit transitions into a popcorn ceiling. On the bottom, it goes opposite into another ceiling that won't be getting rock. So, to transition smoothly (cornerbead would produce a funky angle since the adjacent surface would be original, while the "new" wall would be 1/4" topped), you'd rip a 4" piece and hang that center of the soffit. Then, edge the old surfaces and let the blade ride on the new surface, after a fill of mud. It works like cornerbead, but for the inside and doesn't require anything special besides a deft touch and going slowly - using lots of coats, of course.

It's kind of hard to explain, but it's cheap and very effective - and it does the same thing as your product does, except it does it at a slant and on both the top and bottom. There's no real way to graphically represent that here, but it slopes from the original surface to the 1/4" raised surface on both sides, which is pretty much not noticable once the mud dries and texture gets shot. I'll make a little something and grab some pictures to show you what I mean if I can.

Still, looks like your suggesstion is the way to go if I can find it! And again, thank you!

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:47:14 PM EDT
This whole NEW HOUSE this just keeps getting better!

Right now I'm trying to convince my BN commander to LOAN me 30 or 40 bodies, 4 Hummvees and two 5 tons to assist with the MOVE.

That would be really sweet.

We will see what we got once I get you inside as far as the extra work. I don't want to burden you!

IM me your email and I will send you more pics of the property.



A few more bits of info:

It is a 3 bed 2.5 bath townhouse (condo).

4 entry/exit points and 4 very large windows. (means extra $ for a security system)


The way I'm looking at this is what is saved in labor can be put into quality materials.



I am looking forward to learning alot. You can do things for someone and help them NOW, or teach them how to do it.... and not have to help them ever again.... or something like that.

I don't think I have to tell you guys that I am REALLY excited about this house! I can't wait to get in there and tear shit up and make it mine!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:54:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 3:55:29 PM EDT by azcopwannabee]
What about a nice non-assuming smallish crown moulding? We can REMOVE the popcorn. I actually hate that crap. It gets yellow and nasty after a while. In my current apartment, the ceilings are textured like the walls. Sure you can see the nail holes and joints but I just think they didn't do a good job finishing.

There are a few electrical things I need done as well. I want to run wire up the wall and throught the ceiling to the fan, and lose the GOD AWFUL CHAIN/CORD combo it has now. Also need GFCIs in the kitchen, baths, and outside. Here and there an outlet might not work or a switch needs to be replaced.

You ever see that movie the Money Pit?

OMG.... I'm starting to understand you guys!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:58:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:
Most outstanding, Cope! Thanks, bro.

What I meant with my original "thirds" statement was like this:

You have a soffit of 12", which needs new rock. On the top, the soffit transitions into a popcorn ceiling. On the bottom, it goes opposite into another ceiling that won't be getting rock. So, to transition smoothly (cornerbead would produce a funky angle since the adjacent surface would be original, while the "new" wall would be 1/4" topped), you'd rip a 4" piece and hang that center of the soffit. Then, edge the old surfaces and let the blade ride on the new surface, after a fill of mud. It works like cornerbead, but for the inside and doesn't require anything special besides a deft touch and going slowly - using lots of coats, of course.

It's kind of hard to explain, but it's cheap and very effective - and it does the same thing as your product does, except it does it at a slant and on both the top and bottom. There's no real way to graphically represent that here, but it slopes from the original surface to the 1/4" raised surface on both sides, which is pretty much not noticable once the mud dries and texture gets shot. I'll make a little something and grab some pictures to show you what I mean if I can.

Still, looks like your suggesstion is the way to go if I can find it! And again, thank you!





That is exactly what I thought you were saying, but I couldn't believe what my eyes were reading.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to me like it may be similar to the following scenario. Imagine me pigtailing a porcelain pull chain bulb holder with no shade and a 2" chain, retaining a single 200 watt unfrosted bulb, to a couple 10' lengths of knob and tube wiring, hanging down from a 16' cathedral ceiling over the formal dining room table of the Whitehouse. Am I on the right track here?
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