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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:11:19 PM EDT


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/31/nadopt31.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/12/31/ixhome.html

Gay and lesbian couples given adoption rights

By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor
(Filed: 31/12/2005)

The biggest shake-up in adoption law for 30 years took effect yesterday, allowing unmarried and same-sex -couples to assume joint responsibility for an adopted child for the first time.

Under the Adoption and Children Act, which was passed by parliament three years ago but was implemented in stages, adoptions are no longer limited to married couples or single people.

Previously, unmarried people in England and Wales adopted individually, giving their partners few parental rights. Only one partner was legally eligible to adopt, with the other applying for a residency order.

The reform is principally aimed at expanding the pool of potential adoptive parents at a time when there is a shortage of candidates considered suitable.

There are more than 60,000 children in the care of local authorities in England and Wales, and while almost half return home within a few weeks, many are there for years.

Felicity Collier, chief executive of the British Association for Adoption and Fostering, said: "Adoption is no longer about adopting babies relinquished by unmarried mothers, but much more about finding permanent families who are committed to children who are in public care.

"Opening up adoption to unmarried partners will encourage more people to consider adoption.

"This is very important at a time when too many children wait too long in temporary care waiting for an adoptive family or, in some cases, never have the chance of adoption at all."

The Act also introduced new rights for foster parents, who can now apply for "special guardianship" orders, enabling them to take continuous responsibility for children until their 18th birthday.

Parents who gave up their children for adoption will have a new right to try to trace them through an intermediary service, provided the child wants contact.

Pam Hodgkins, chief executive of the National Adoption Agency, said adoptive children were often reluctant to trace their birth parents as they feared "being rejected a second time".

Agencies would contact people who have been adopted to ask if they wanted to be put in touch with their birth parents but no information would be exchanged without their permission.

She added: "There's a generation of unmarried mothers who actually have lived wanting to know desperately whether the child they gave up for adoption is alive or dead."

Although the reform is expected to increase the numbers coming forward to adopt, many are prevented from doing so.

Although there is no upper age limit for adoption, prospective parents are expected to be sufficiently healthy.

This means people who are overweight or who smoke, while not automatically disqualified, will have a more difficult time adopting now than a gay or cohabiting couple.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:14:38 PM EDT
Ok the one good thing about gays and lesbians getting such a big place in society was that it couldn't last because they couldn't breed. This is to far. Dyke friend refers to straight people as "breeders" and she means it in a derrogatory way. I looked at her and said "look, I know what the fuck was intended for me in nature and when God created me, don't talk that kinda shit around me"
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Ok the one good thing about gays and lesbians getting such a big place in society was that it couldn't last because they couldn't breed. This is to far. Dyke friend refers to straight people as "breeders" and she means it in a derrogatory way. I looked at her and said "look, I know what the fuck was intended for me in nature and when God created me, don't talk that kinda shit around me"



I've known a lot of gay co-workers before (travel biz and in SFO no less) and they were all great people but I've heard that "breeder" line before in conversation and there was almost always an "edge" to it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:29:19 PM EDT
If gays want kids they should make them the old fashioned way.

The very fact they can't proves their lifestyle is an abomination.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:31:30 PM EDT

If two guys can adopt a kid - why can't five guys adopt a kid, then they can ALL be "daddy".

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:34:12 PM EDT
I het hearing that gays and lesbians get all this attention. If they want kids then have sex with a person of the opposite sex. I agree, it's an abomination before god. Just sad.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:48:45 AM EDT
I have no problem with this. I'd rather see two same-sex people adopt and care for a child than the kid get raised in foster homes, or an orphanage. I've known a few gay couples who had kids and the kids were well taken care of, normal, and straight.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:50:51 AM EDT
Better that a kid gets a loving gay couple to raise him/her than get thrown into the brutal child care system getting tossed from foster home to foster home.

For the bigots who are against this, why don't YOU adopt all the kids instead of the gays?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:50:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
I have no problem with this. I'd rather see two same-sex people adopt and care for a child than the kid get raised in foster homes, or an orphanage. I've known a few gay couples who had kids and the kids were well taken care of, normal, and straight.




your nuts
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:54:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
I have no problem with this. I'd rather see two same-sex people adopt and care for a child than the kid get raised in foster homes, or an orphanage. I've known a few gay couples who had kids and the kids were well taken care of, normal, and straight.




your nuts



Explain why.

And BTW - it is "you're nuts", not "your"

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:01:56 AM EDT
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:07:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:13:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.



Raising a child in a dysfuctional and abnormal family is also hurtful to a child.

If gays want kids they should make them, not adopt them. Studies have proven that children do best with a mother and a father.

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:16:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 3:17:23 AM EDT by MTUSA]
If homo sexuality was the norm, there would be no human life.
If homo sexuality was the norm in the wild, there would be no elk to hunt or fish to catch.
Its unbioligically sound. Geesh, real simple folks.
I had a friend in Kali that came out of lesbianism. She had no positive words for that lifestyle.
Adopting for gays is breeding for gays.
Open your minds too much and your brains out.

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:19:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.





I can't believe I am in a pissin' match with some kid named stoner student.
Party on Garth
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:22:26 AM EDT
Nothing to worry about. I hear gays make quite a bit of money on average. They're great providers.



Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:23:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Galland:
Nothing to worry about. I hear gays make quite a bit of money on average. They're great providers.

entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/images/ent/ap/20050404/la303_jackson_michael_jackson_trial.sff.jpg





excellent, your witness counseler
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:06:42 AM EDT
So, you'd rather have a hetero couple raise kids in an environment of neglect, abuse (of whatever sort), alcoholism, abandonment, etc. than a gay couple raise the kid in a nurturing environment?

There are bad apples in every bunch. Automatically assuming that all gay couples are child molesters, or that they will be bad parents, is very narrow-minded. Plus it is the opinion of some that gays or their lifestyle is an "abomination" - nice broad brush there, guys.

I guess it is better to let those unwanted kids languish and/or die in horrible situations because it is more important that we not allow "them damn faggots" to adopt.

Nice and compassionate there.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:37:40 AM EDT
Good parents are good parents. I would rather have these kids in a stable environment then a "hetero" environment.

I also don't see how raising a kid in an household run by gay parents will make them gay. I don't think gay catches.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:41:22 AM EDT
I did a paper for my college criminology class back in the early 90's stating that gay/lesbian couples would use adoption services for recruitment efforts. My professor gave me an A+ for my paper.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:49:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.





I can't believe I am in a pissin' match with some kid named stoner student.
Party on Garth



I can't beleive you have never heard of......Eugene Stoner
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:51:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkHalf:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.



Raising a child in a dysfuctional and abnormal family is also hurtful to a child.

If gays want kids they should make them, not adopt them. Studies have proven that children do best with a mother and a father.






Studies by who?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:52:01 AM EDT
If it gives a kid a good home, so be it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:06:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Ok the one good thing about gays and lesbians getting such a big place in society was that it couldn't last because they couldn't breed. This is to far. Dyke friend refers to straight people as "breeders" and she means it in a derrogatory way. I looked at her and said "look, I know what the fuck was intended for me in nature and when God created me, don't talk that kinda shit around me"



I've known a lot of gay co-workers before (travel biz and in SFO no less) and they were all great people but I've heard that "breeder" line before in conversation and there was almost always an "edge" to it.




Yep......like fag,butt pirate, sodomite etc.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:08:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 5:11:25 AM EDT by TrijiCog]
So you guys would rather see a kid raised by the state than by a couple of adults ? Imagine the fun for the kid when he sees his his 2 hot lesbian moms getting it on in the laundry room.

Now 2 dads I would have a problem with,there is no benefit to this type of situation.A kid walking in on his 2 dads grunting and groaning would most likely scar him for life.

"Dad,why do you have a gerbil and a PVC pipe pointed at "other dads" ass?"

How would one answer this question ?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:18:06 AM EDT
As long as it's a decent environment for the child I have no problems with it- those who think that an orpahnage is a caring or nurturing environment have obviously never spent any time around one. There are bad parents of all walks of life and of all sorts- just as a single parent can be a "good parent", or poor people or whatever other socio/economic/racial/ethnic/religious/etc group I think a gay couple could be. It's what's in their hearts for the kid- not their preference for the same sex. Damn, now I sound like a bleeding heart liberal.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:21:09 AM EDT
The criteria for who gets to adopt should mainly be about what's good for the kid, based on all the science we have not pc bs.

Two main points: no one has a built in right to adopt... and the bell curve means that while you can find extraordinary cases on the extremes, most couples or singles of a given minority population won't be extraordinarily well put together and so chances are unless otherwise spelled out in statute or code, it won't be the fantastic couple adopting but the dysfunctional ones.

For example, two sisters adopting their niece or nephew... if they're healthy (mentally, emotionally, physically) if they can take care of the financial aspect of child rearing.... all those things are crucial, they could adopt.

We shouldn't be asking Oh gee are you gay? But if it's obvious by adults wearing this on their sleaves demanding super rights and holding grudges.... then absolutely bar them from adoption as they are not mentally, emotionally healthy to say nothing about the whole STD picture and the gay tendency to define 'faithful monogamy' as open to casual sex with strangers only occasionally.

Calling a lifestyle (that reduces your life expectancy) alternative doesn't mean it's a) better or b) healthy. Like it or not, lifestyle and morality does factor into child rearing. It's not all fun and games raising productive, law abiding citizens. It requires self control, good example, discipline and lots and lots of abnegation and sacrifice.

It's an honor but not a right for those who didn't procreate a child to raise that child.

If we lose sight of this the whole debate becomes another 'I want what I want therefore I have a constitutional right to have it, consequences for other people be damned' debate.

On the same token if two heterosexual people wanted to adopt but it became apparent that they weren't married, weren't mature, were'nt emotionally healthy.... I'd say NO WAY too. For the same reasons.

Children need stability and they need adults to be adults not teenagers in grown up bodies.

Yes, like the bell curve you will have extraordinary examples of fantastic couples who have same sex attraction and are together because of it. But laws and criteria aren't about the exception to the rule, law is about the rule. So the vast majority of non-married couples or singles choosing to adopt won't be optimum for the child.

Is this discriminatory? ABSOLUTELY! We discriminate - that is, judge, people all the time in this country. We don't let college drop outs get medical licenses. We don't let blind people fly planes, we don't allow felons to vote. We don't allow mentally impaired people - or people with deep seated emotional issues sit at the controls of nuclear weapons.

Because... no one has a right to fly a plane, operate on someone, or serve in the military; even though we do have rights to property, association, and self defense.

I think this is sort of like people wanting pets for the sense of being loved. Fact is, humans are social creatures, we crave and need friendship and love. Many people who experience same sex attraction desperately need friends, loving, unconditional friends. Most people who jump from sex partner to sex partner are seeking happiness (or they're suffering from an addiction they can hardly control). But whereas happiness and pleasure are related, they're not the same thing.

Some people think buying lots of stuff, or having pets will 'make them happy'... it's natural to think having kids will 'make you happy' too. But if the focus of the activity is the selfish pursuit of happiness rather than the desire to make OTHERS HAPPY, you doom yourself to fail - to make others miserable while never discovering happiness beyond the occasional burst of pleasure.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:46:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
I have no problem with this. I'd rather see two same-sex people adopt and care for a child than the kid get raised in foster homes, or an orphanage. I've known a few gay couples who had kids and the kids were well taken care of, normal, and straight.



Exactly.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:49:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.



Why not??? "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

If they are that big of a threat, why are they out of prison... sorry for the thread hijack
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:18:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By w4klr:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.



Why not??? "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

If they are that big of a threat, why are they out of prison... sorry for the thread hijack



Start another thread and I'll explain why
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:26:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By w4klr:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
as long as all people deserve a chance. how about child molesters adopting.



Well for one thing....they rape/hurt children

I beleive in the 2nd amendment......but not for convicted murderers it's same thing.



Why not??? "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

If they are that big of a threat, why are they out of prison... sorry for the thread hijack


Because they aren't going to lock away your average muder suspect for life without parole. Thats reserved for the more heinous examples. Even "life"is typically considered to be 25 years.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:31:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
I have no problem with this. I'd rather see two same-sex people adopt and care for a child than the kid get raised in foster homes, or an orphanage. I've known a few gay couples who had kids and the kids were well taken care of, normal, and straight.



Exactly.



Yup.

If gay were contagious, where did the gay folks get it? From their straight parents?
Every kid that's adopted by ANYONE who is cleared to adopt is ONE LESS KID RAISED BY THE STATE.
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