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Posted: 12/29/2005 1:52:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 3:27:30 PM EDT by otar]
Anyone know if a Piper PA 28 has IFR ratings?


Someone crashed one in last night and they found them this morning. Looks like they tried to take off in a heavy fog with temps just above freezing.


www.wowt.com/home/headlines/2130152.html
www.ketv.com/news/5709757/detail.html

ETA: All DRT. (dead right there)
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:57:36 PM EDT
There are no old, bold pilots...
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:59:06 PM EDT
Did the pilot have an instrument rating? Is that the question?
Many Cherokees are certified for IFR.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:01:22 PM EDT
A good, IFR-rated pilot could probably fly IFR in a Piper Cub and be fine. So it's not really the plane as much as it is the pilot. I used to fly a Mooney M20K (231) with slaved HSI and 3-axis autopilot. I let "him" do most of the flying in the soupy stuff...
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:11:19 PM EDT
I wasn't sure if an older (1966) was/ could be set up for IFR.
I was out in that crap last night and fog was probably .5 mile vis, and temps just above freezing.
Not what I would think of for good flying weather.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:12:12 PM EDT
The aircraft type will not have a blanket IFR capability, it's the individual aircraft. Even with an IFR certified aircraft there a certain currency requirements that have to be met for the equipment to be used. Believe it or not the commercial airliner I make my living in can become a VFR only plane if certain equipment is not maintained, or checked.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:16:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 2:17:36 PM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By otar:
Not what I would think of for good flying weather.



Me neither. My former/late boss who owned the Mooney didn't bother worrying about such "trivial" things as the weather. So after I had quit the company he took the 231 out to Portland, OR and then on take-off one day he iced-up and killed himself and the salesman that was riding with him that day. I have the NTSB report taped to my cubicle right now. He always did make me nervous with his bad judgement and I'm glad I got out when I did. Unfortunately, I haven't flown much since and it's been years. I just can't afford it right now. Thanks goodness for FlightSim 2002. The Mooney Bravo gets regular workouts on my PC...
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:22:39 PM EDT
I don't have a rating for IFR, but I believe to fly IFR you have to file a flight plan, it doesn't sound like that was the case here.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:27:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taildragger:
Did the pilot have an instrument rating? Is that the question?
Many Cherokees are certified for IFR.



Correct. My PA-28 was IFR equipped. however, I know of no Cherokee that would be equipped for "known ice" , or freezing precipitation.
Ice would be a big no-no in that airplane, or any other light single for that matter.


On the other hand, my PA28-151 warrior was a true joy to fly, and I miss her.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:29:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 2:31:09 PM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
I don't have a rating for IFR, but I believe to fly IFR you have to file a flight plan, it doesn't sound like that was the case here.



You are correct sir. Scud-runners get killed all the time trying to do things they can't do. A big part of the reason that the airlines have such a better safety record is that they aren't out there lying to themselves trying to make it just one more mile underneath a 200 foot ceiling. (Well... that and they have more training, better maintained equipment, more reliable engines, dispatchers, clear proceedures, etc etc... )
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:41:08 PM EDT
LOL! What is it about those Mooney owners anyway?



Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:45:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QUIB:
LOL! What is it about those Mooney owners anyway?


www.hunt101.com/img/359426-big.jpg




I think you're probably right man! But if I had the dough I'd still love to own one myself. I like that whole speed thing, and the Mooney's a heck of a lot cheaper than a Beech. We could get that thing up to FL 250 (or was it 240) if you gave us about 4 hours to do it! Ahhh... the good old days... My boss flew her into O'Hare before I worked there and I guess ATC wasn't too happy having to space for such a little guppy in a big fish airport.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:26:05 PM EDT
Update:

According to the local news:
No flight plan was filed. Also not said but sounded like pilot didn't have IFR rating.
Ceiling was somewhere between 100-300 ft AGL., Vis upto 3/4 mile.
They think he took off sometime after 23:30, and made it almost 1 mile before going in.
(Personal observation. It looks kind of like he banked in wing tip over wing tip.)
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:46:33 PM EDT
It is clear from the second news report that the pilot was not instrument rated. Given the reports of fog and low ceilings, I can bet pretty easily this guy killed himself, his wife, and their friend due to the irresponsibility of taking off into IMC (instrument meteorological conditions) without the correct skills. Stupid, stupid, stupid. When will people ever learn..............

However, it doesn't help when an asshat like this makes an utterly idiotic statement such as this (incredibly stupid and simply incorrect portions in red):

David Silchman, of the Nebraska Flight Center, said planes do not leave his facility with conditions like he saw Thursday morning. Silchman said he was surprised to hear about the crash.

"You can't see the ground, and if you can't see the ground, you just don't know where the plane is going to touch down," (my comments: Pilot was leaving, not coming into Ohama)Silchman said. "Nobody should be out there flying a small airplane in these conditions." (my comments: oh really? I've flown planes similiar to that in similar conditions in complete safety, as have thousands of other instrument-rated pilots)

According to Silchman, larger commercial planes have equipment to see through fog, (my comment: WTF is HE talking about? X-ray goggles )



For the record, I have a private, single engine land pilot's certificate and an instrument rating.

PS, the reporter's comment that the pilot had the "miminum physical certificate" for flying means nothing at all. Who pays for more than a third class physical unless they have to?

The media has zero credibility when it comes to anything more technical than opening a door.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:46:34 AM EDT
Darwin gets another... My regs I fly under at this point wouldn't let me fly in that weather...
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:14:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By texashark:

Originally Posted By Taildragger:
Did the pilot have an instrument rating? Is that the question?
Many Cherokees are certified for IFR.



Correct. My PA-28 was IFR equipped. however, I know of no Cherokee that would be equipped for "known ice" , or freezing precipitation.
Ice would be a big no-no in that airplane, or any other light single for that matter.


On the other hand, my PA28-151 warrior was a true joy to fly, and I miss her.



Just use your 14th stage bleed air to de-ice.
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