The Meth/ID Theft connection - Page 2

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Posted: 12/29/2005 11:30:32 AM EDT

[#1]

Well dang--I'm up for that. I have a license to kill on the site--that good enough to qualify for real life killin'??

Posted: 12/29/2005 1:36:30 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
If you investigate the tweakers, and others like them, you find that the problem isn't in the tweaking. The problem is in the fact that they consume anything and everything. Very rarely will you find one of these people who hasn't abused multiple drugs and would just abuse something else (probably alcohol) tomorrow if speed disappeared.

Different drugs go through different phases of popularity, particularly in local areas. But, by all the stats, alcohol still wins all the prizes for destroying lives. And the comparison isn't even close. Never has been. For example, by some estimates, about 40 percent of all the hospital care in the US is for reasons related to alcohol. Alcohol kills about ten times as many people as all the illegal drugs combined, etc., etc., etc. You would be hard pressed to find any stats on overall social damage where meth beats alcohol at any point in history.

That's not to say that tweakers are doing something good, or that they are pleasant to be around. Being around them sucks just like being around people who are continually drunk.

The alcohol numbers are bullshit though. I know a lot of people that got DUIs and in accidents and stuff like that who were high, but never tested for pot, only given a breathalizer.

Like you said, a lot of druggies consume everything. But not all criminals are drug tested, more are given a breathalizer.

I have seen it ruin lives of kids that did no other drugs too.

In Phoenix, you need to fill out a form at the pharmacist to get sudafed (which is now kept behind the counter) because the cookers used to steal it so much to make meth

Posted: 12/29/2005 3:20:32 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Hitler was on meth, tweaked every day during WW2. Back in the good ol' days when it was legal.
http://amphetamines.com/adolf-hitler.html

The History Channel did a show on Hitler's doctor and went through how he got speed injections every day. The doctor was a well-known quack who apparently first treated Hitler for syphilis (in the days when there was no cure) and became his confidant.

Still doesn't disprove Hitler wasn't a tweaker

The German Army also made extensive use of speed during the blitzkrieg. I imagine that must have been a pretty miserable experience. Imagine yourself having to go through a war like that, spending the whole time amped up on huge amounts of coffee to keep you going.

So now meth = coffee? Pretty lame argument

Posted: 12/29/2005 3:32:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you investigate the tweakers, and others like them, you find that the problem isn't in the tweaking. The problem is in the fact that they consume anything and everything. Very rarely will you find one of these people who hasn't abused multiple drugs and would just abuse something else (probably alcohol) tomorrow if speed disappeared.

Different drugs go through different phases of popularity, particularly in local areas. But, by all the stats, alcohol still wins all the prizes for destroying lives. And the comparison isn't even close. Never has been. For example, by some estimates, about 40 percent of all the hospital care in the US is for reasons related to alcohol. Alcohol kills about ten times as many people as all the illegal drugs combined, etc., etc., etc. You would be hard pressed to find any stats on overall social damage where meth beats alcohol at any point in history.

That's not to say that tweakers are doing something good, or that they are pleasant to be around. Being around them sucks just like being around people who are continually drunk.
The alcohol numbers are bullshit though. I know a lot of people that got DUIs and in accidents and stuff like that who were high, but never tested for pot, only given a breathalizer.

Well, we have covered pot before. The best research shows that the worst effects of pot get up to about .08 blood alcohol. Pot is not a major accident factor on the roads.

But that wasn't the subject, anyway. The subject was meth.

Like you said, a lot of druggies consume everything. But not all criminals are drug tested, more are given a breathalizer.

I have seen it ruin lives of kids that did no other drugs too.

In Phoenix, you need to fill out a form at the pharmacist to get sudafed (which is now kept behind the counter) because the cookers used to steal it so much to make meth

Alcohol wins all the prizes for problems, road problems included. Meth ain't good stuff, but alcohol still wins the prizes. Even if you assume the stats missed some things, the comparison still isn't even close.

Posted: 12/29/2005 3:36:35 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Still doesn't disprove Hitler wasn't a tweaker

They had some of his medical records. I guess you could make the argument that nothing proves anything.

So now meth = coffee? Pretty lame argument

What argument? FYI, I made the comparison for those who may not be familiar with the effects of meth. It is a stimulant, like caffeine. Consuming large amounts of caffeine will approximate the effects of amphetamines.

Also FYI, caffeine was almost outlawed at the same time cocaine was -- for the same reasons.

Posted: 12/29/2005 3:45:02 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you investigate the tweakers, and others like them, you find that the problem isn't in the tweaking. The problem is in the fact that they consume anything and everything. Very rarely will you find one of these people who hasn't abused multiple drugs and would just abuse something else (probably alcohol) tomorrow if speed disappeared.

Different drugs go through different phases of popularity, particularly in local areas. But, by all the stats, alcohol still wins all the prizes for destroying lives. And the comparison isn't even close. Never has been. For example, by some estimates, about 40 percent of all the hospital care in the US is for reasons related to alcohol. Alcohol kills about ten times as many people as all the illegal drugs combined, etc., etc., etc. You would be hard pressed to find any stats on overall social damage where meth beats alcohol at any point in history.

That's not to say that tweakers are doing something good, or that they are pleasant to be around. Being around them sucks just like being around people who are continually drunk.
The alcohol numbers are bullshit though. I know a lot of people that got DUIs and in accidents and stuff like that who were high, but never tested for pot, only given a breathalizer.

Well, we have covered pot before. The best research shows that the worst effects of pot get up to about .08 blood alcohol. Pot is not a major accident factor on the roads.

But that wasn't the subject, anyway. The subject was meth.

Like you said, a lot of druggies consume everything. But not all criminals are drug tested, more are given a breathalizer.

I have seen it ruin lives of kids that did no other drugs too.

In Phoenix, you need to fill out a form at the pharmacist to get sudafed (which is now kept behind the counter) because the cookers used to steal it so much to make meth

Alcohol wins all the prizes for problems, road problems included. Meth ain't good stuff, but alcohol still wins the prizes. Even if you assume the stats missed some things, the comparison still isn't even close.

point taken. Alcohol is still used by a much larger number of people than meth, so it would make sense that it would also be used by a larger number of criminals too.

I have a lot of friends that drink or smoke pot or even do coke and I would trust them alone in my house. Tweakers are a different story though, I don't have any friends anymore that are tweakers because all of the ones that were turned into little theives trying to support their addiction.

perhaps if you already have a good job and make good money so you don't have to steal to smoke meth, then it wouldn't be a problem. But I have never met anybody like that and can only speak from personal experience

Posted: 12/29/2005 3:45:48 PM EDT

[#7]

This does not relate to meth addicts but to a few crack cocaine addicts.

Last year, my friend lost his wallet. He thought he had misplaced it so he didn;t report it immediately to the police or his credit card companies. After approx. 24 he found out that not only were his credit cards maxed out but the criminals opened new credit cards in his name with his driver's license and ss card. Well these guys weren't too bright because when they made their purchases they signed with their names!

Most of them pled guilty last month in order to receive plea deals. Some are to receive probation and other incarceration followed by parole.

Anyways, at the plea hearings, which I attended for my job, they all admitted to using these purchases to sell to buy crack. Oh, I was at the plea hearings because I am a probation/parole officer and when they get sentenced, I'll be the one supervising them! Hopefully I'll instill in them an appreciation for the gravity of their offenses!

Posted: 12/29/2005 4:09:28 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
point taken. Alcohol is still used by a much larger number of people than meth, so it would make sense that it would also be used by a larger number of criminals too.

It is more than that. According to the US DOJ, alcohol is the only drug with any real connection to drug-induced violence, regardless of numbers of people who use it.

I have a lot of friends that drink or smoke pot or even do coke and I would trust them alone in my house. Tweakers are a different story though, I don't have any friends anymore that are tweakers because all of the ones that were turned into little theives trying to support their addiction.

perhaps if you already have a good job and make good money so you don't have to steal to smoke meth, then it wouldn't be a problem. But I have never met anybody like that and can only speak from personal experience

I am not fond of tweakers, myself. Even at low doses, when they aren't doing something stupid, it is still "STFU ALREADY!" Very annoying. But I have known lots and lots of people who did speed at one time or another, and managed to get through it. Like alcohol or anything else, people seem to experiment with it and -- for the most part -- give it up when they realize it isn't much fun anymore. Same as with coke, which is similar in many ways.

Posted: 12/29/2005 4:15:30 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
This does not relate to meth addicts but to a few crack cocaine addicts.

Last year, my friend lost his wallet. He thought he had misplaced it so he didn;t report it immediately to the police or his credit card companies. After approx. 24 he found out that not only were his credit cards maxed out but the criminals opened new credit cards in his name with his driver's license and ss card. Well these guys weren't too bright because when they made their purchases they signed with their names!

Most of them pled guilty last month in order to receive plea deals. Some are to receive probation and other incarceration followed by parole.

Anyways, at the plea hearings, which I attended for my job, they all admitted to using these purchases to sell to buy crack. Oh, I was at the plea hearings because I am a probation/parole officer and when they get sentenced, I'll be the one supervising them! Hopefully I'll instill in them an appreciation for the gravity of their offenses!

I think I knew somebody stupider than that. I knew this guy (lived in the same neighborhood, not a close friend) who looked like Michael J. Fox. Short, same looks.

So he gets himself a heroin habit and, naturally, runs out of money at some point. Then, to get money, he borrows his father's credit card, goes to a couple of the local equipment rental places and rents a few big tractors and major pieces of equipment. Then he went and sold the equipment for cash. He had a lot of heroin for about three days and then went to San Quentin for the next five years or so.

Posted: 12/29/2005 4:44:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, they'd be better off just legalizing meth.
The separate ingredients are legal for Christ's sake, and used by many more people for other purposes.
How stupid can lawmakers get?
~

OK GREAT idea,

YOU FUCKING get to pay for their dental and health insurance though! Count me and MY wallet out.

Do a search for Meth Mouth to start...

Why didn't we have that problem before it was made illegal?

And do you think it ought to be illegal to do things that damage your teeth? Is that a sensible justification for a law?

The problem has always been there, it's a fact if you abuse meth you lose track of hygene over the long haul and the chemicals are harsh on your teeth as well. A double whamy. It ought to be illegal to ruin your life with a drug to the point that you can't care for yourself and then end up on state welfare. Meth is highly addictive, and much harder to get off of, that's the point.

Posted: 12/30/2005 4:01:48 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, they'd be better off just legalizing meth.
The separate ingredients are legal for Christ's sake, and used by many more people for other purposes.
How stupid can lawmakers get?
~

OK GREAT idea,

YOU FUCKING get to pay for their dental and health insurance though! Count me and MY wallet out.

Do a search for Meth Mouth to start...

Why didn't we have that problem before it was made illegal?

And do you think it ought to be illegal to do things that damage your teeth? Is that a sensible justification for a law?

The problem has always been there, it's a fact if you abuse meth you lose track of hygene over the long haul and the chemicals are harsh on your teeth as well. A double whamy. It ought to be illegal to ruin your life with a drug to the point that you can't care for yourself and then end up on state welfare. Meth is highly addictive, and much harder to get off of, that's the point.

No, this problem wasn't always there. It started after speed was outlawed. If you are really interested, you can read a good short history of the subject in chapters 34-42 of the Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs

You might want to pay particular attention to the chapter titled "How Speed Was Popularized".

Posted: 12/30/2005 5:18:34 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

So now meth = coffee? Pretty lame argument

What argument? FYI, I made the comparison for those who may not be familiar with the effects of meth. It is a stimulant, like caffeine. Consuming large amounts of caffeine will approximate the effects of amphetamines.

Also FYI, caffeine was almost outlawed at the same time cocaine was -- for the same reasons.

People can just drink coffee then instead of using meth. They can rejoice it was almost banned, so they'll get the giddy feeling of being a quasi-outlaw. Not to mention all the good antioxidants coffee has. Plus it'll save their teeth.

Posted: 12/30/2005 5:27:25 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, they'd be better off just legalizing meth.
The separate ingredients are legal for Christ's sake, and used by many more people for other purposes.
How stupid can lawmakers get?
~

The same could be said about murder.

Nobody that I know of has ever suggested that any law be changed to allow anyone to cause harm to anyone else. (except silly prohibitionists who never bothered to read anything on the subject and were just looking to set up a straw man argument.)

My point was, the implements for murder are almost always legal too. I was attempting to illustrate absurdity with further absurdity. If meth was legal the losers who use it would still steal from me and you in order to buy it, rather than working. Know any tweakers who work?

Actually, I don't know any tweakers at all.

But I say first of all, let the states decide how they want to enforce it. Once state may decide it's best to legalize it and let all the tweakers OD on cheap, legal meth and take care of the problem that way.

BTW, the absurd thing was comparing an activity where the primary harm is voluntarily done to the user (meth abuse) to a crime where a person is harmed against their will (murder).

Posted: 12/30/2005 5:38:26 AM EDT

[#14]

**sigh**
Alcohol and drugs do not kill people and destroy lives...

PEOPLE kill people and destroy lives.

Too bad irresponsibility isn't a freaken crime, eh? We go after it in the backdoor way (hunting deadbeat dads, arresting drunk drivers, gun control) but we don't simply make the root of all evil, irresponsibility illegal.
Why? because it's undefinable. YOUR definition of irresponsibility will not match mine.

And so we blindly go.

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:08:37 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:

So now meth = coffee? Pretty lame argument

What argument? FYI, I made the comparison for those who may not be familiar with the effects of meth. It is a stimulant, like caffeine. Consuming large amounts of caffeine will approximate the effects of amphetamines.

Also FYI, caffeine was almost outlawed at the same time cocaine was -- for the same reasons.

People can just drink coffee then instead of using meth. They can rejoice it was almost banned, so they'll get the giddy feeling of being a quasi-outlaw. Not to mention all the good antioxidants coffee has. Plus it'll save their teeth.

I prefer coffee, myself, and not too much of that, so it wouldn't bother my personal life too much if it was all illegal. I would miss cocoa (also almost outlawed) more. Hot cocoa wins for anti-oxidants, too. There is no doubt that either coffee, tea, or cocoa would be a better health choice than meth for most people (except those who find meth legitimately medically useful).

I think the Air Force continues to use speed because it is more potent than caffeine and because coffee would make them piss a lot. You can't pull a B-2 over to the side of the road to piss in the bushes.They are looking at it in a very utilitarian way -- gotta get the multi-million dollar airplane home safely -- so they choose the best stimulant for their particular purposes.

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:39:19 AM EDT

[#16]

News flash: Drug use causes other crimes

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:39:47 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I hate meth and what it does to people. It is the worst drug problem in the country. I knew a lot of people that got wrapped up in it when I was younger, the majority of them are dead now. It destroys your mind. It may give you the advantage of being awake and alert for days, weeks or months on end, but it kills your brain and body in the process. Imagine being up for 3 days all wired and hallucinating from sleep deprivation and feeling like you got kicked in the balls for 5 hours coming down from it.

I agree with you that abusing it is nasty business. But, having said that, alcohol still wins all the prizes for problems.

Perhaps because it's legal and readily available?

You're halfway there.

Now compare what happened with alcohol when it was illegal. Were things better or worse overall?

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:41:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
News flash: Drug use causes other crimes

Why were such crimes (except those related to alcohol) essentially unknown before the drugs were prohibited?

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:44:34 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
**sigh**
Alcohol and drugs do not kill people and destroy lives...

PEOPLE kill people and destroy lives.

Too bad irresponsibility isn't a freaken crime, eh? We go after it in the backdoor way (hunting deadbeat dads, arresting drunk drivers, gun control) but we don't simply make the root of all evil, irresponsibility illegal.
Why? because it's undefinable. YOUR definition of irresponsibility will not match mine.

And so we blindly go.

How about we all agree on irresponsibility that harms others? If you can name a specific way that it harms others, then I think there are laws against those specific things.

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:53:57 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Hitler was on meth, tweaked every day during WW2. Back in the good ol' days when it was legal.
http://amphetamines.com/adolf-hitler.html

From 1942, the Nazi leader Adolf Hitler received daily injections of methamphetamine from his personal physician, Dr Theodor Morell. Hitler's ailments have been attributed to everything from tertiary syphilis to Parkinson's disease. But many of The Führer's clinical signs and symptoms may have been caused by his exotic drug regimen.

In Hitler's Wehrmacht, methamphetamine tablets branded as Pervitin were liberally distributed to German fighting troops throughout the War. Amphetamines are "power drugs" that reduce fatigue, heighten aggression, and diminish human warmth and empathy.

How could Hitler continue to exert such a grip on the German people until the last days of the War? Talking to a prison psychologist while awaiting trial, ex-Governor General of Poland Hans Frank (1900-1946) describes Hitler's charismatic effect on him...

So what? Does the fact that Hitler might have used it make it evil? I bet Hitler owned a gun too. Does that make all guns everywhere evil?

Yeah, Hitler was an evil bastard. But that doesn't make any particular thing he did or owned evil or wrong. Oh yeah, and you also automatically lose the argument by Godwin's Law.

Posted: 12/30/2005 6:56:32 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
News flash: Drug use causes other crimes

Why were such crimes (except those related to alcohol) essentially unknown before the drugs were prohibited?

If you think really hard you might figure out why computer crime and debit card crime did not exist prior to meth being criminalized.

Posted: 12/30/2005 7:01:30 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
News flash: Drug use causes other crimes

Why were such crimes (except those related to alcohol) essentially unknown before the drugs were prohibited?

If you think really hard you might figure out why computer crime and debit card crime did not exist prior to meth being criminalized.

Yeah, but to really understand it, you would have to read the history. Did you read any of the history of the early laws and what happened?

Posted: 12/30/2005 9:07:40 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
So what? Does the fact that Hitler might have used it make it evil? I bet Hitler owned a gun too. Does that make all guns everywhere evil?

Yeah, Hitler was an evil bastard. But that doesn't make any particular thing he did or owned evil or wrong. Oh yeah, and you also automatically lose the argument by Godwin's Law.

I disagree. Hitler was evil, and that doesn't make inanimate objects he happened to posess evil. But things he did were pretty damn evil and wrong.

Posted: 12/30/2005 1:02:10 PM EDT

[#24]

Heh, I went in to the store I work at--and behind the customer-service desk counter are some shelves, about twelve feet wide and from the floor to about eight feet high.

The leftmost 2-feet of shelves was almost empty, with a sign explaining that effective as of January 15 2006, Illinois now has a law that decrees grocery stores were no longer allowed to sell medicine that contains pseudoehedrine (they were required to move it behind the service counters a number of months ago).

The rest of the shelves were full of cartons of cigarettes and half-pint bottles of liquer.
~

Posted: 12/31/2005 4:09:24 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So what? Does the fact that Hitler might have used it make it evil? I bet Hitler owned a gun too. Does that make all guns everywhere evil?

Yeah, Hitler was an evil bastard. But that doesn't make any particular thing he did or owned evil or wrong. Oh yeah, and you also automatically lose the argument by Godwin's Law.
I disagree. Hitler was evil, and that doesn't make inanimate objects he happened to posess evil. But things he did were pretty damn evil and wrong.

Just to clarify a bit, yeah, some of the things he did were pretty damm evil (trying to take over Europe, setting up death camps to kill over 13 Million people, etc). But those things are evil because of what they are, not because Hitler did them.

Posted: 12/31/2005 4:33:51 AM EDT

[#26]

Drug laws are about as logical and effective as gun laws.

Legalize Meth and let those miserable bastards dig out their own eyeballs.

Posted: 12/31/2005 7:42:20 AM EDT

[#27]

Too many Americans have become too self centered and indulgent, and confuse liberty with licentivism. The Right of Free Speech is the right to speak out on public issues and is not a license for pornography/pervision on the airways. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is the ability to stop or overthrow an oppressive government and not to have $5K O/U shotguns for duck hunting.

There is a lot of BS floating around here about 'Rights Reserved to the people' and 'Legalize various poisons'. Get a non-PC'd history book and look at the common treatment for drunkards during the colonial times. They were locked in stocks and were targets of public ridicule&abuse.

If meth existed in colonial 1776 America, they would have dealt directly and firmly with the users. Instead of 'busting' them for possession, they would have busted their ass with a couple of days in the stocks when they caught them using it. Get buzzed, get put in the stocks with your drunkard friends.

And that is the way it was, and the way it should be.

w{the intolerant of dopers}ganz
¶

Posted: 12/31/2005 7:56:20 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Hitler was on meth, tweaked every day during WW2. Back in the good ol' days when it was legal.
http://amphetamines.com/adolf-hitler.html

Er..not to be a dick, but so was JFK....

Dr. Feelgood and JFK

Another serious condition plagued Kennedy. Born with one leg shorter than the other, he suffered from chronic back pain that required rocking chairs and heating devices, but most importantly injections of powerful painkilling drugs. Max Jacobsen, a.k.a. Doctor Feelgood, began to supply JFK with amphetamines (speed), which he claimed were vitamins, hormones and enzymes.

By the time JFK discovered the true content of his injections, it was too late: he was hooked. When, on October 15th 1962, US spy planes witnessed Russian nuclear missiles being constructed on Cuba, the future of the western security lay with a compulsive risk taker dependent on both steroids and amphetamines.

Posted: 12/31/2005 9:27:51 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Too many Americans have become too self centered and indulgent, and confuse liberty with licentivism. The Right of Free Speech is the right to speak out on public issues and is not a license for pornography/pervision on the airways. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is the ability to stop or overthrow an oppressive government and not to have $5K O/U shotguns for duck hunting.

That's not the issue. You may not have a right to have a $5K shotgun. That doesn't mean that it would be a good idea to throw someone in jail just because they had one. Get the difference?

You and I may think that guy's hobby is wasteful, not constitutionally protected, or whatever. That still doesn't make it a good idea to jail the guy just because we disagreed with his personal tastes.

There is a lot of BS floating around here about 'Rights Reserved to the people' and 'Legalize various poisons'. Get a non-PC'd history book and look at the common treatment for drunkards during the colonial times. They were locked in stocks and were targets of public ridicule&abuse.

If meth existed in colonial 1776 America, they would have dealt directly and firmly with the users. Instead of 'busting' them for possession, they would have busted their ass with a couple of days in the stocks when they caught them using it. Get buzzed, get put in the stocks with your drunkard friends.

And that is the way it was, and the way it should be.

w{the intolerant of dopers}ganz
¶

Yeah, we should base our current policies on the beliefs and practices of a time when they were putting people in stocks. Sadly, that is what is actually happening. Just FYI, we found out a long time ago that doesn't work.

More to the point, if you read the modern history of these laws, you will find that we didn't have most of these problems with most of these drugs (except for alcohol) until they were outlawed. If you are actually interested in learning something about the history, you can find the full text of thousands of original historical documents, as well as complete histories of the subject by numerous authors at Historical Research on the Drug Laws The short history of the marijuana laws on that page is particularly entertaining.

If you want to know what all the major government commissions said about the subject, you can find the full text of most of them at Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy

ETA: If that is too much reading for you, you can see me on the History Channel (again) tonight at 8PM. The show is called "Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way." This segment (one of four in the series) is on cocaine.

Posted: 12/31/2005 9:55:12 AM EDT

[#30]

I grew up around trailer park trash and saw the shit in action prior to the current meth craze. A lot of house wives were taking 'diet pills'. Just because the meds were dispensed by pharmacists didn't make it any less destructive. Just because the source of the drugs change, how are the destructive effects of their use somehow majickally eliminated??

However, as an RN and have had to deal with these drug seeking oxygen thieves, I know discussing this will in no way change your opinion on this until you finally hit bottom and see the error of your ways. Unfortunately, there is no way to go back and undo the damage done to others on the highway to hell of your own personal self destruction.

wganz
¶

Posted: 12/31/2005 10:02:19 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I grew up around trailer park trash

So you judge the world by trailer trash?

and saw the shit in action prior to the current meth craze.

I saw the shit in action during the first meth craze in the 1960s.

A lot of house wives were taking 'diet pills'. Just because the meds were dispensed by pharmacists didn't make it any less destructive.

Actually, it did.

Just because the source of the drugs change, how are the destructive effects of their use somehow majickally eliminated??

You can read a good explanation of that in the histories I linked above. In short, it is because bans don't really work. Just because you made something illegal doesn't mean that you made it go away. All you did was shift it from regulatory control to no control at all. Therefore, it is produced and distributed by people who don't meet any regulatory standards.

A good example is alcohol prohibition. Prohibition didn't make alcohol go away. It didn't even reduce use. In fact, alcohol use and abuse increased during Prohibition. What also increased was things like blindness from bad hooch, because all of the stuff was made illegally with no manufacturing controls.

However, as an RN and have had to deal with these drug seeking oxygen thieves, I know discussing this will in no way change your opinion on this until you finally hit bottom and see the error of your ways.

Tell me. As an RN do you stupidly and erroneously assume that every one of your patients is a drug addict if they happen to disagree with you? How about if they tell you something you didn't know -- like pointing you to major works of research that you have never read?

Unfortunately, there is no way to go back and undo the damage done to others on the highway to hell of your own personal self destruction.
wganz
¶

I am on no such highway, thanks, but if that's the way you think, then please stay away from working in any medical facilities where my family might wind up.

Posted: 12/31/2005 10:56:51 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
... Oh yeah, and you also automatically lose the argument by Godwin's Law.

Nope you forgot the codicil of Godwin's Law: that any deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.

Therefore: YOU lose.

Posted: 12/31/2005 10:37:15 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I grew up around trailer park trash

So you judge the world by trailer trash? When the rest of the world has degenerated to act like it, then yes.

and saw the shit in action prior to the current meth craze.

I saw the shit in action during the first meth craze in the 1960s.

A lot of house wives were taking 'diet pills'. Just because the meds were dispensed by pharmacists didn't make it any less destructive.

Actually, it did. It is obvious that your powers of observation has been destroyed by the drugs that you're taking. The destruction of the frontal lobes of the brain by meth and its chemical relatives are independent of statutory restrictions.

Just because the source of the drugs change, how are the destructive effects of their use somehow majickally eliminated??

You can read a good explanation of that in the histories I linked above. In short, it is because bans don't really work. Just because you made something illegal doesn't mean that you made it go away. All you did was shift it from regulatory control to no control at all. Therefore, it is produced and distributed by people who don't meet any regulatory standards.

A good example is alcohol prohibition. Prohibition didn't make alcohol go away. It didn't even reduce use. In fact, alcohol use and abuse increased during Prohibition. What also increased was things like blindness from bad hooch, because all of the stuff was made illegally with no manufacturing controls. BLAH BLAH BLAH, same tweaker shit that I hear when I go back to Smallville, LA. To distill it all, you're a fuck up and are going to be a fuck up, laws or no laws. Just tell your family to not call me to be a pall bearer at your funeral.

However, as an RN and have had to deal with these drug seeking oxygen thieves, I know discussing this will in no way change your opinion on this until you finally hit bottom and see the error of your ways.

Tell me. As an RN do you stupidly and erroneously assume that every one of your patients is a drug addict if they happen to disagree with you? How about if they tell you something you didn't know -- like pointing you to major works of research that you have never read? Reading comprehension is one of the things taken away by meth, re-read what I said previously. I deal with obvious drug users. They test positive in the drug screens that you get when you come through the ER. Betcha didn't know that they tested almost everyone that comes through ER??? And I get to see the lab results that show that they're positive for THC, opiates, meth, and whatever. So, I know who is and isn't a doper. And it isn't too hard to tell post-op when they're screaming for pain meds when they've already been given enough morphine that a normal decent person would have alread been intubated and sent to ICU. Yeah, recreational use of drugs increases your tolerance to them so that when you need them to get a level of comfort in the hospital, it just ain't happening. So, just don't be whining, crying, and sniveling to me that hospital grade MS04 aint cutting it for you,

Unfortunately, there is no way to go back and undo the damage done to others on the highway to hell of your own personal self destruction.
wganz
¶

I am on no such highway, thanks, but if that's the way you think, then please stay away from working in any medical facilities where my family might wind up. And please stay away from medical facilities. It may come as a news flash to you, but every medical personnel that I've ever met, has the same attitude to dopers. Which is you and your fellow dopers are a major pain in the ass to deal with.You're dumped at the first opportunity to the newbie nurses.

Posted: 12/31/2005 10:40:50 PM EDT

[#34]

there is no rehab for a speed freak

they are a cancer on society

Posted: 12/31/2005 11:05:30 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
This does not relate to meth addicts but to a few crack cocaine addicts.

Last year, my friend lost his wallet. He thought he had misplaced it so he didn;t report it immediately to the police or his credit card companies. After approx. 24 he found out that not only were his credit cards maxed out but the criminals opened new credit cards in his name with his driver's license and ss card. Well these guys weren't too bright because when they made their purchases they signed with their names!

Most of them pled guilty last month in order to receive plea deals. Some are to receive probation and other incarceration followed by parole.

Anyways, at the plea hearings, which I attended for my job, they all admitted to using these purchases to sell to buy crack. Oh, I was at the plea hearings because I am a probation/parole officer and when they get sentenced, I'll be the one supervising them! Hopefully I'll instill in them an appreciation for the gravity of their offenses!

I think I knew somebody stupider than that. I knew this guy (lived in the same neighborhood, not a close friend) who looked like Michael J. Fox. Short, same looks.

So he gets himself a heroin habit and, naturally, runs out of money at some point. Then, to get money, he borrows his father's credit card, goes to a couple of the local equipment rental places and rents a few big tractors and major pieces of equipment. Then he went and sold the equipment for cash. He had a lot of heroin for about three days and then went to San Quentin for the next five years or so.

Wolfman, you may have known someone stupider than my example however Fayette County PA, even in its rural setting, has some of the stupidest criminals right now and its mainly because of crack cocaine.

Fayette County's Famous TBall Coach

FYI: This is just an example of the shit that goes on in FayetteNAM.

Posted: 1/1/2006 12:18:32 AM EDT

[#36]

I've guys hooked so bad on meth that they'd suck a dick for a hit.

Posted: 1/1/2006 1:48:42 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
It is obvious that your powers of observation has been destroyed by the drugs that you're taking. The destruction of the frontal lobes of the brain by meth and its chemical relatives are independent of statutory restrictions.

OK, you started with stupid shit like this and went downhill from there. You are clueless. And, yes, I know there are SOME medical personnel out there with your attitudes. I founded an organization of pain patients and they commonly refer to such people as the "nightmare nurse" or "angel of death".

Your willingness to assume that someone is a meth freak just because they disagree with you kinda says it all about you.

Posted: 1/1/2006 6:31:12 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I grew up around trailer park trash

So you judge the world by trailer trash?

and saw the shit in action prior to the current meth craze.

I saw the shit in action during the first meth craze in the 1960s.

A lot of house wives were taking 'diet pills'. Just because the meds were dispensed by pharmacists didn't make it any less destructive.

Actually, it did.

Fen-Phen was great sucesss.

Posted: 1/1/2006 7:00:19 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I grew up around trailer park trash

So you judge the world by trailer trash?

and saw the shit in action prior to the current meth craze.

I saw the shit in action during the first meth craze in the 1960s.

A lot of house wives were taking 'diet pills'. Just because the meds were dispensed by pharmacists didn't make it any less destructive.

Actually, it did.

Fen-Phen was great sucesss.

Different product entirely. Not that your response was on point to my statement.

Did you happen to read any of the history of this subject?

Posted: 1/1/2006 9:13:21 AM EDT

[#40]

In 2003, the U.S. spent approximately $17 billion dollars on the "War on Drugs". The US has been engaged in "The War on Drugs" for over 30 years. The price and availability of illegal drugs has never been cheaper or or more prevalent. The U.S. incarcarates more people than any other western nation. Most of the prisoners are in for nonviolent drug offenses. The U.S. has usurped indivduals rights in the name of fighting drugs. The police have become paramilitary forces that must confiscate private property to equip their departments.

For all of you that believe the ends justify the means, please answer these questions.

1. How much more money and how many more years of fighting this war can we expect before victory can be declared?

2. If the "war on Drugs" cannot be won, why does the government insist on throwing more money at it every year instead of persuing another approach?

3. With cocaine profit margins pegged at 17,000 percent, at what point does taking the profit out of cocaine by legalizing or regulating it become an economical option?

Posted: 1/1/2006 10:37:36 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
In 2003, the U.S. spent approximately $17 billion dollars on the "War on Drugs". The US has been engaged in "The War on Drugs" for over 30 years. The price and availability of illegal drugs has never been cheaper or or more prevalent. The U.S. incarcarates more people than any other western nation. Most of the prisoners are in for nonviolent drug offenses. The U.S. has usurped indivduals rights in the name of fighting drugs. The police have become paramilitary forces that must confiscate private property to equip their departments.

For all of you that believe the ends justify the means, please answer these questions.

1. How much more money and how many more years of fighting this war can we expect before victory can be declared?

2. If the "war on Drugs" cannot be won, why does the government insist on throwing more money at it every year instead of persuing another approach?

3. With cocaine profit margins pegged at 17,000 percent, at what point does taking the profit out of cocaine by legalizing or regulating it become an economical option?

Were you watching the History Channel last night? Sounds like you might have been.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Meth/ID Theft connection (Page 2 of 2)

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