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Posted: 12/26/2005 11:45:45 PM EDT
I mean what can a surefire do that Maglites wont?
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:50:57 PM EDT
fit in your pocket?
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:51:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 11:51:47 PM EDT by RIA45ACP]
My Surefire G2 puts out more light than my 4 D cell maglite and takes up less space, on the other hand the maglite makes a better whoopass stick, plus it doesnt use a set of 6 dollar batteries every 6 hours... What was the question again....
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:52:49 PM EDT
Who needs light? I hear a strange noise and i barrel roll across the floor and light up the night with mt muzzle flash
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:53:57 PM EDT
Someone needs to mount a 4 D cell mag on an AR.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:55:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 11:55:56 PM EDT by RIA45ACP]

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
Someone needs to mount a 4 D cell mag on an AR.



I dont have an AR yet, but im willing to duct tape one to a shotgun barrel and post pics... Would that do??

ETA: I'll even use the camo duct tape I got for Christmas.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:57:25 PM EDT
There are so many reasons from quality to design. Surefire is the best flashlight i have ever used. thats why i have then in all my cars, house and on my person. Over the past 5 years i have soley used surefire and i have NEVER been let down.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:03:20 AM EDT
but what about cost comparison? I mean in my line of work I have left MANY flashlights under appliances and just plain lost them... what about that?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:05:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
but what about cost comparison? I mean in my line of work I have left MANY flashlights under appliances and just plain lost them... what about that?



MANY flashlights you say?


You need one of these.


Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:05:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
but what about cost comparison? I mean in my line of work I have left MANY flashlights under appliances and just plain lost them... what about that?



If they were as high quality as surefire you might have been more careful.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:06:52 AM EDT
Leave a Surefire on long enough it will get hot enough to fry a spider.


Want me to post a picture?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:07:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
I mean what can a surefire do that Maglites wont?



Cost you a whole lot more.


I have one of each
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:10:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2A373:
Leave a Surefire on long enough it will get hot enough to fry a spider.


Want me to post a picture?



POST PICS! POST PICS!

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:11:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
but what about cost comparison? I mean in my line of work I have left MANY flashlights under appliances and just plain lost them... what about that?




In your line of work a regular 2 or 3 D cell Mag-light would work better and would be more economical since they are a lot cheaper and the batteries are cheaper and will last longer.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:15:17 AM EDT
I have both brands: a 3 D-Cell and 2 AA maglite that rarely get used. I have several Surefires, one of which is bound to be used daily. I have 3 personal: an E2d I carry everywhere night and day, a 6Z on my duty belt, and a 6P on standby. I also have the dedicated fore-ends for both my shotgun and my AR, plus one for my USP.

I swear by Surefires and would trust my life to one.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:19:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
but what about cost comparison? I mean in my line of work I have left MANY flashlights under appliances and just plain lost them... what about that?



Well, for what you're using them for a higher quality normal flashlight will be more cost effective than a surefire. Surefires are gangbusters loads of light over relatively short periods of time. If you were using a surefire or a comperable light for working behind fridges and under sinks you'd be spending assloads of money on batteries.

I just use a surefire to find the right key, but the option to blind an aggressor is pretty much the only other utility I forsee in them. My flashlight in my car emergency kit is a normal flashlight.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:21:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
but what about cost comparison? I mean in my line of work I have left MANY flashlights under appliances and just plain lost them... what about that?



And that's why I still carry a big Maglite in the car and a couple Mini-Mags everywhere else. I've also got a G2 and a 6Z, but if I lose one of the Maglites I don't give a shit.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:22:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 12:22:43 AM EDT by kpel308]
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:26:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

Originally Posted By 2A373:
Leave a Surefire on long enough it will get hot enough to fry a spider.


Want me to post a picture?



POST PICS! POST PICS!




+1 +1
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:27:14 AM EDT
daily carry .. E2L 3w 30lumen LED I get about 6 hours out of 2 cr123 batteries, translated for a daily carry light is about 2 months for me
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:40:51 AM EDT
If you don't feel the need for a different flashlight (any brand) then by all means stick with the maglight.

I'ts like someone asking, "what the big deal with EoTech".

As for maglights, I guess you are using small ones for appliances. There's nothing wrong with minimags.....except the less than stellar beam life. They die down almost immediately after initial use.

See this minimag review www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglight_minimag.htm

Minimags are pretty good but for the same price you could get cheap performance LED lights that have better beam life and probably be brighter as well...and have longer batter life...

Surefire lights are very good lights... but probably not for you.

They are for those who need the highest performance. Like a pilot who does exterior preflight check of a 747 then uses he same light to look at maps in the cockpit. Lives depend on the light, a maglight simply wouldn't perform in both situations as well as say an A2 Avaitor. Same for SWAT and SpecOps and rescue and moms in parking lots or me in my house.

Surefire is not always the best flashlight either. Here's the best lights of 2005 link.
www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99551

Surefire in there but not in a category most of us would be interested.

The Streamlight ProPoly AA Luxeon is a great inexpensive general light and the fenix L1P is a superb, affordable ($50) pocket light.

I got a Surefire E1L for Christmas, It's their top of the line pocket light.
I'll be exchanging it for another brand. The surefire is too big, doesn't stand on end, doesnt have variable power and has a pocket clip that sticks the bezel out of the pocket over an inch.

Surefire was not the best for me. Instead I'll get an HDS which is better than surefire in every way and the lowest power HDS is the same price as the surefire pocket light.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:43:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
Someone needs to mount a 4 D cell mag on an AR.



I know back in The Day, MP5s had maglight mounts, clamped on the scope mount area with a claw mount, looked like a big ol' scope, but was a 4-cell maglight.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:47:03 AM EDT
Pffffft...you can keep your surefire....my Mag fits perfect!

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:56:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 12:59:26 AM EDT by CAAAwarfighter]

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
Someone needs to mount a 4 D cell mag on an AR.



Triggerfish did last year but his picture isnt working any mor ein the weaponlight thread.
I keep a variety of flaslights around, Surefires, streamlights, Maglights, pelicans etc, each one has it's role. Surefires customer service is great but sometimes I dont need a blinding amount of light in a small package.


ETA oops I missed the picture above when looking for one. Definitely a good way to eat up any recoil/muzzle climb.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:19:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
I mean what can a surefire do that Maglites wont?


It will get you accepted by the 'gear queer' squad.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:30:02 AM EDT
Maglites are 30 years behind in the technology department and are nothing more than lighted clubs. I have a 6D cell that does not light up a room near as well as the "little" light I carry in my pocket. I do not have any Surefires yet, but I will sooner or later. I have a G2 knockoff as well as some 3watt LED lights from Nuwai and a couple 1 watt lights from Dorcy that put my poor maglite to shame.

Check out a Surefire, especially an LED light and you will wonder how you got along with a dim light making 5 pound club.

I have converted several family members who are now switching to LED lights for emergencies.

For beamshots and comparisons etc, and just more info, I would suggest www.flashlightreviews.com and www.candlepowerforums.com .

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:33:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RIA45ACP:
My Surefire G2 puts out more light than my 4 D cell maglite and takes up less space, on the other hand the maglite makes a better whoopass stick, plus it doesnt use a set of 6 dollar batteries every 6 hours... What was the question again....

Actually, it does. Your 4 cell Maglite is at less than half it's brightness by 6 hours.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:35:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cugir:
I got a Surefire E1L for Christmas, It's their top of the line pocket light.
I'll be exchanging it for another brand. The surefire is too big, doesn't stand on end, doesnt have variable power and has a pocket clip that sticks the bezel out of the pocket over an inch.

Surefire was not the best for me. Instead I'll get an HDS which is better than surefire in every way and the lowest power HDS is the same price as the surefire pocket light.





Top of the line would be the KL4 head (from the L4 lumamax) mounted on a 1 cell body like the one found on your E1L. This combo commonly known as a TW4 will blow and HDS out of the water. Put on a two stage tailcap and you have variable light. For cheaper than the cheapest HDS and brighter than the most expensive.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:37:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
I mean what can a surefire do that Maglites wont?




How about emit some freakin light? Those little AA pocket maglites are the sorriest lights I've ever seen.

If you want something comparably cheap, wally world seels a little xenon flashlight for 20 bucks. It's a blindingly bright light and seems pretty durable.

Light technology has changed, maglite hasn't changed with it, unless there's something I've missed.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:48:21 AM EDT
Surefires are well made lights, you always pay for quality.

That's why I didn't mind paying for a Gladius www.night-ops.com instead so that I could get the same lumen output, double the run time, multi modes, and never have to worry about a bulb breaking or burning out. Apparently the latter is something Surefires are known for.

Hold your wallets close to your chest though folks. The Chinese are making Killer little pocket and tactical lights with Luxeon LED's, and the prices are definitely right. A 3watt Nuwai flashlight is equivalent to a G2 Nitrolon at 60 Lumens, runs twice as long on the same battery, is nicely made, and costs a few $$ less. Oh, and there's that whole bulb burn-out thing that you won't have to worry about. A 5watt light will run $70-80, and SMOKE any of the Surefires that were meant for personal use. To get brighter than that in a Surefire you have to go to one of the 3 cell weapon lights, and those chew through non-rechargeable batteries like a junkie on Vicodin.

Hell, if you want a Kick Ass light (Dr Fridge, this is you), get a Luxeon conversion for a mag light. Basically, youcan get 1, 3, or 5 watt modules that replace the standard bulb but way more light and runtime than the average Surefire. Lighthound carries these, and they are in the $30 range.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 3:23:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Hold your wallets close to your chest though folks. The Chinese are making Killer little pocket and tactical lights with Luxeon LED's, and the prices are definitely right. A 3watt Nuwai flashlight is equivalent to a G2 Nitrolon at 60 Lumens, runs twice as long on the same battery, is nicely made, and costs a few $$ less. Oh, and there's that whole bulb burn-out thing that you won't have to worry about. A 5watt light will run $70-80, and SMOKE any of the Surefires that were meant for personal use. To get brighter than that in a Surefire you have to go to one of the 3 cell weapon lights, and those chew through non-rechargeable batteries like a junkie on Vicodin.


got a link to the chicom lights?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 3:26:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Surefires are well made lights, you always pay for quality.

or burning out. Apparently the latter is something Surefires are known for.

Hold your wallets close to your chest though folks. The Chinese are making Killer little pocket and tactical lights with Luxeon LED's, and the prices are definitely right. A 3watt Nuwai flashlight is equivalent to a G2 Nitrolon at 60 Lumens, runs twice as long on the same battery, is nicely made, and costs a few $$ less. Oh, and there's that whole bulb burn-out thing that you won't have to worry about. A 5watt light will run $70-80, and SMOKE any of the Surefires that were meant for personal use. To get brighter than that in a Surefire you have to go to one of the 3 cell weapon lights, and those chew through non-rechargeable batteries like a junkie on Vicodin.
Hell, if you want a Kick Ass light (Dr Fridge, this is you), get a Luxeon conversion for a mag light. Basically, youcan get 1, 3, or 5 watt modules that replace the standard bulb but way more light and runtime than the average Surefire. Lighthound carries these, and they are in the $30 range.



Burn out is something all highpower xenon lights have to deal with. The surefire A2 with its regulated power and softstart technology is one of the longest lasting xenons out there.

A Nuwai is less than half the output of a G2 or any other Surefire light that houses a P60 Bulb.

Ummm what about the 5 watt surefires? How does the chinese lights "Smoke" them? By using crappier materials and less water proofing so they start smoking?

Are you even aware Surefire makes LEDs? Cause you are talking alot about bulb burnout..
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 3:30:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Hold your wallets close to your chest though folks. The Chinese are making Killer little pocket and tactical lights with Luxeon LED's, and the prices are definitely right. A 3watt Nuwai flashlight is equivalent to a G2 Nitrolon at 60 Lumens, runs twice as long on the same battery, is nicely made, and costs a few $$ less. Oh, and there's that whole bulb burn-out thing that you won't have to worry about. A 5watt light will run $70-80, and SMOKE any of the Surefires that were meant for personal use. To get brighter than that in a Surefire you have to go to one of the 3 cell weapon lights, and those chew through non-rechargeable batteries like a junkie on Vicodin.


got a link to the chicom lights?



He is talking about this one i guess. They are cheap and decent because they use Luxeon star LEDs. the regulation and waterproofing are not great. And nowhere close to a Surefire.

Nuwai 3 watt

This light by surefire which is 2 years old now . Just wait till the next gen surefire comes out.

Surefire L4
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 3:50:30 AM EDT
thanks for the quick reply and links!
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:00:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
He is talking about this one i guess. They are cheap and decent because they use Luxeon star LEDs. the regulation and waterproofing are not great. And nowhere close to a Surefire.

Nuwai 3 watt

This light by surefire which is 2 years old now . Just wait till the next gen surefire comes out.

Surefire L4

Burn out is something all highpower xenon lights have to deal with. The surefire A2 with its regulated power and softstart technology is one of the longest lasting xenons out there.

A Nuwai is less than half the output of a G2 or any other Surefire light that houses a P60 Bulb.

Ummm what about the 5 watt surefires? How does the chinese lights "Smoke" them? By using crappier materials and less water proofing so they start smoking?

Are you even aware Surefire makes LEDs? Cause you are talking alot about bulb burnout..





A 3w LED is a direct match for a 60 Lumen Surefire-ever seen one? Yep, burn-out is a problem with xenon bulbs, and not just surefires. But now that LEDs are here, Xenon is going to go the way of the Dodo. As soon as the heat/thermal efficiency issues for LED's above 5w are engineered out, you will see weapon lights in the 200 lumen range just like the current Surefire Xenon weapon lights.

As to your question about the 5watt LEDs, the ChiComs get their LED's from the same place Surefire does, probably uses the same alloy for the bodies (it's hardly an exotic aluminum alloy), both use CNC machines to make the bodies and bezels, so that leaves the electronics. I don't know if Surefire assembles their own PCB's in house or has an American contractor do it, but you can bet your sweet ass that they used Chinese parts to make them.

Surefires are nice lights, but don't drink the Kool-Aid. Hell, if you have to have a nice, reliable, American Made light, my local grocery store sells Xenon pocket lights running off of CR123's.

For $22.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:12:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 4:13:03 AM EDT by FredM]

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

A 3w LED is a direct match for a 60 Lumen Surefire-ever seen one? Yep, burn-out is a problem with xenon bulbs, and not just surefires. But now that LEDs are here, Xenon is going to go the way of the Dodo. As soon as the heat/thermal efficiency issues for LED's above 5w are engineered out, you will see weapon lights in the 200 lumen range just like the current Surefire Xenon weapon lights.

As to your question about the 5watt LEDs, the ChiComs get their LED's from the same place Surefire does, probably uses the same alloy for the bodies (it's hardly an exotic aluminum alloy), both use CNC machines to make the bodies and bezels, so that leaves the electronics. I don't know if Surefire assembles their own PCB's in house or has an American contractor do it, but you can bet your sweet ass that they used Chinese parts to make them.

Surefires are nice lights, but don't drink the Kool-Aid. Hell, if you have to have a nice, reliable, American Made light, my local grocery store sells Xenon pocket lights running off of CR123's.

For $22.

Dave



How is it a direct match? The Lux output is less than half. Did you see the test I posted? I know they use Luxeon LEDs, I said that in the post.
Nuwai has a Type 2 instead of harder type 3 anodize, plastic instead of pyrex lens and crappy regulation that put you at 50% output quicker. It is also not as waterproof as a Surefire.

There is no grey area here. If you want the extra features you pay the extra cash.

Xenon will be around for a long time yet. LEDs are great and I carry 2 of them in my rotation of lights. no matter the Lux output they don;t throw nearly as well and tend to get drowned out by ambient light.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:39:18 AM EDT
you get into diminishing returns, to be sure. There are now plenty of decent "cheaper" lights out there. I really like my Streamlight TL-3 for the money. I paid $55 shipped from amazon.com. If you like gadgets, Surefires are hard to beat. I love my L4 and long for an M6. I really wish I hadn't sold my 10x, it was sweet. Many people can't justify the cost, but I enjoy them, so I can (to me). I would say you might be better served getting a nice rechargable of some sort, Surefire or Streamlight.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:43:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 4:51:40 AM EDT by Andreuha]
I think a 6-D Maglight modded with a Surefire 9-V (3- CR123 cell) head would work very well (in terms of extended output. (123's have 750mAh, cheap D-cells are 1500mAh, NiMH rechargable D-cells go to 10000mAh. In other words, on cheap D-cells, a 90-minute Surefire becomes 6-hour light, but that's gonna be a big light for 60 lumens (which is still miles ahead of a crappy ol' stock maglight).
I've seen maglight mods online - some good shit! (okay, maybe you don't need 1000 lumens, but the extended output with a 60-120 lumen bulb may be worthwhile).

edit: Here's a simple mod like what I'm talking about doing
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:24:58 AM EDT
Tag for Maglite mod project...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:30:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:31:15 AM EDT
Smaller and brighter. They are nice, get one of the cheapies that go for $30-$40, they are worth it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:35:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 5:44:30 AM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By Ranger_SXT:
fit in your pocket?



Put out effective light?

I have several Maglights for emergency use. Sure, they were the shit at one time. I regularly use a set of three Streamlight Stinger rechargeables. They are bright as all get out and just large enough to not lose. However they are too large for the pocket or gun pack. During a tropical storm, I didn't have a light with me, and promptly bought two surefires to insure I would always have a bright, quality, bulletproof light, regardless of what part of the world I woke up in.

I thought they were over rated too, until I really needed one. I used the hell out of it in the desert this weekend.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:36:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

I mean what can a surefire do that Maglites wont?




Put out useable amounts of light
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:41:02 AM EDT
Surefires are tottally fricking sweet. They have real ultimate power!

But seriously. When you are trying to work on somthing, the little dark lines in a Mag-Lite beam are anoying. Surfire has that beautiful spotless white beam.

I was always a Mag-Lites are fine guy until I finnaly brok down and got a G2 for $30. Now I have 2 G2's and just dropped the coin for an E2 Defender. They are just better.

And for thos that bitch about batteries being $6 a piece. Um...yeah....Surefire sells them 12 for $15. That is less $2 a piece with shipping.

www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/273/sesent/00
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:42:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:43:25 AM EDT
Hey, idea - buy a $200 flashlight and I bet you won't be leaving it behind anymore.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:57:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

got a link to the chicom lights?



I got mine from Quality China Goods

They've got a few combos consisting of luxeon light, rechargable 123 batteries, and charger. I'd do some research on CPF about the rechargable 123's first though. I picked up one of these kits for an electrician friend of mine, and he's quite pleased.

Also picked up some of the 8-LED Xnovas as office gifts. They're surprisingly bright, easily beat a minimag, and run on a single AA. The machining isn't up to mag specs though.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:09:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 6:11:49 AM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

got a link to the chicom lights?



I got mine from Quality China Goods

They've got a few combos consisting of luxeon light, rechargable 123 batteries, and charger. I'd do some research on CPF about the rechargable 123's first though. I picked up one of these kits for an electrician friend of mine, and he's quite pleased.

Also picked up some of the 8-LED Xnovas as office gifts. They're surprisingly bright, easily beat a minimag, and run on a single AA. The machining isn't up to mag specs though.




This is cool!! Link from that site.

www.szwholesale.com/3mode-trichrome-p-205.html?osCsid=53a41f6ead5c1d2d71231dfb06e8e9cc

ETA That site has a bunch of cool toys.

When you absolutly NEED 45 LEDs on a flashlight!!

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:14:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 6:17:04 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
My dad is a Maglite fan from WAY BACK....

I gave him a cheapo G2 to see if he would like it better. I think I paid $24-$30 for it.

He likes it a lot, except he keeps doing stupid things like buying Home Depot Duracell 123A batteries, at $4 ---

He says it lights up the dark crevices of HVAC installs much better than the maglite ever did -- and he likes the whiter light the Surefire puts out --- AND he likes how small and lightweight it is in his tool bag.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:18:00 AM EDT
I got one of these Link at Sears last week for 29 dollars. It is a very nice little flashlight, with an amazing amount of light output. Seems to be very good quality. That said, my weapons lights are all Surefires.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:19:35 AM EDT
The only advantage a Maglight would have over a Surefire is in terms of bweing used as an impact weapon. A Maglight can split someone's grape open quicker than a Surefire.
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