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Posted: 12/24/2005 5:43:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 6:53:52 AM EDT by Slacker]
NC law regarding CCW and drinking.

"It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed"
www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-415.11.html
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:46:41 AM EDT
I agree that people who are drinking should stay away from the guns.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:47:14 AM EDT
Oh this one's going to be fun...
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:48:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 7:32:53 AM EDT by npd233]
No, it's not ok to drive a car at .799 .079, at least for most people. .80 .080 is the legal limit at which you cannot drive, whether you seem impaired or not. Most people at .799 .079 will exhibit obvious signs of impairment.


edited to fix the mistake. Thanks for pointing it out Chokey!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:48:38 AM EDT
I disagree. If I'm sober enough to drive, I'm sober enough to shoot.

I have to hand it to Europeans. Virtually all of their shooting clubs and activities include alcohol at some point during the proceedings. But I think their attitude about alcohol is a bit more mature than ours.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:49:00 AM EDT
agree. Already arrested one CCW holders for being drunk and pulling his weapon on someone at a restraunt.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:54:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
I agree that people who are drinking should stay away from the guns.


Yup.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:58:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I disagree. If I'm sober enough to drive, I'm sober enough to shoot.

I have to hand it to Europeans. Virtually all of their shooting clubs and activities include alcohol at some point during the proceedings. But I think their attitude about alcohol is a bit more mature than ours.


I wouldn't call it "mature", I'd call it "casual". I know one gun club that has beer taps right behind the shooting line. Thats just TOO casual about booze, in my mind. Even if I didn't have my own range , I wouldn't shoot there. Its just asking for trouble.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:03:54 AM EDT
that's why I carry two guns when I go drinking
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:04:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I disagree. If I'm sober enough to drive, I'm sober enough to shoot.

I have to hand it to Europeans. Virtually all of their shooting clubs and activities include alcohol at some point during the proceedings. But I think their attitude about alcohol is a bit more mature than ours.


I wouldn't call it "mature", I'd call it "casual". I know one gun club that has beer taps right behind the shooting line. Thats just TOO casual about booze, in my mind. Even if I didn't have my own range , I wouldn't shoot there. Its just asking for trouble.


Thanks for validating my observations. In Europeans clubs, maturity is expected. Drink if you want, but best do it in moderation or you will find yoru membership cancelled PDQ.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:09:24 AM EDT
Well, having actually SHOT at german shooting clubs in the 80s, they shot first, and drank second. They might have got plastered but it was after they were done shooting for the day.

And any idiot who wants to drink and ccw is just that, an idiot. I'd personally prefer they drown in their own vomit rather then screw the sane and responsible ccw holders over by showing the state and Country that we gun owners are drunken louts. And make no mistake about it, "DRUNK CCW HOLDER SHOOTS AND KILLS TEEN" is a headline that would be on the front page across the US. If you even contemplate CCWing and drinking, please sell your guns or at least drink at home where the person that might get shot is yourself.
You drink, you put the guns up. Period.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:12:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Well, having actually SHOT at german shooting clubs in the 80s, they shot first, and drank second.


Ever been to Switzerland?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:18:14 AM EDT
As usual, Florida has a better idea.


790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.--
(1) As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to "use a firearm" means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, "readily accessible for immediate discharge" means loaded and in a person's hand.
(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.
(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one's property.

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:20:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 6:22:26 AM EDT by JSteensen]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I disagree. If I'm sober enough to drive, I'm sober enough to shoot.

I have to hand it to Europeans. Virtually all of their shooting clubs and activities include alcohol at some point during the proceedings. But I think their attitude about alcohol is a bit more mature than ours.



Yes, but once you drink, you are no longer invited back on the firing line.

Also, I don't CCW (yet - stationed out of country.) but when I have patrol, the official rule is 8 hours prior no drinking. I hold myself to 12 hours...I mean, if you had to shoot, would you be able to live with yourself knowing that there may have been an alternative, but you were possibly not altogether there?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:21:43 AM EDT
NC should worry about their Jim Crow gun laws first...
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:22:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JSteensen:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I disagree. If I'm sober enough to drive, I'm sober enough to shoot.

I have to hand it to Europeans. Virtually all of their shooting clubs and activities include alcohol at some point during the proceedings. But I think their attitude about alcohol is a bit more mature than ours.



Yes, but once you drink, you are no longer invited back on the firing line.



I always thought it'd be nice if ranges had a pub with a hand stamp or brass tag system to exclude you from the line once you entered. It'd be nice to have a drink with other gun guys after a day of shooting.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:29:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Well, having actually SHOT at german shooting clubs in the 80s, they shot first, and drank second.


Ever been to Switzerland?



Yes, but never shot there. Whether or not they drink, they still do not have any right to CCW, either after drinking, or having drunk not a drop. Drinking affects people at different levels. Did a "stop" [guy was passed out in the middle of the road, vehicle running, and in gear] while at Ft Polk as an MP and the guy blew a .03. He had ONE beer and it affected him to that extent. My wife can drink one beer and she gets pretty loopy, so I have no problem with no alcohol/no CCW. While it MAY not affect your physical behavior it can affect your mental and emotional behavior, something that would be extremely difficult to defend in a court of law or the civil trial that would certainly follow.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:33:09 AM EDT
I'm not worried about me handleing my booze while carrying.

I'm worried about the other fucking idiot.

Booze + Guns=Bad.

I wouldn't have thought that so much had we not had the thread where
so many people said it was perfectly fine to not use the safety on thier
weapon.

(Please save the "I got a Glock/Sig/P99", etc comments)
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:37:55 AM EDT
Guns and alcohol do not mix...period.

HH
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:41:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:
No, it's not ok to drive a car at .799, at least for most people. .80 is the legal limit at which you cannot drive, whether you seem impaired or not. Most people at .799 will exhibit obvious signs of impairment.



Most people with .799 BAC will be DEAD! Now most people with .0799 will be impaired.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:49:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
As usual, Florida has a better idea.


790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.--
(1) As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to "use a firearm" means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, "readily accessible for immediate discharge" means loaded and in a person's hand.
(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.
(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one's property.




The Voice of Reason ^^^

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:51:58 AM EDT
In NC there arent CCW charges if you are carrying on your own property.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:52:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chokey:

Originally Posted By npd233:
No, it's not ok to drive a car at .799, at least for most people. .80 is the legal limit at which you cannot drive, whether you seem impaired or not. Most people at .799 will exhibit obvious signs of impairment.



Most people with .799 BAC will be DEAD! Now most people with .0799 will be impaired.



LOL...you can tell I haven't drank in years...I should have caught that!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:08:51 AM EDT
I'd think you'd want to limit yourself in either case to ONE drink, if you make the choice to do so. More than that complicates your life. Even the smell of alcohol is going to work against you.

I had a friend that was alcoholic. When the first swallow went down he changed personalities....and it wasn't for the better.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:29:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chokey:

Originally Posted By npd233:
No, it's not ok to drive a car at .799, at least for most people. .80 is the legal limit at which you cannot drive, whether you seem impaired or not. Most people at .799 will exhibit obvious signs of impairment.



Most people with .799 BAC will be DEAD! Now most people with .0799 will be impaired.



Whoops!!... I was still half-sleeping. That's what I meant. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:14:05 AM EDT
If you think you are "legal" driving a a .0799% BAC some cop, DA and judge is likely to prove you wrong. Better start rehearsing those FSTs.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:09:16 AM EDT
bump for an old topic of mine that became more recently became more relevant.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:48:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 5:49:54 AM EDT by lu380]
I go out and have a beer or two while CCW all the time. There's never been a problem. I never drink more than a few beers at a time while CCWing, though. PA has no law specifically prohibiting carrying while drinking as far as I know.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:04:25 AM EDT
Just for the record, driving at .079 is not necessarilly legal. Not here in AZ, anyway.

The purpose behind changing the vernacular from DWI (Driving While Intoxicated) to DUI (Driving Under the Influence) was to include prosection for any impairment. However, it also left the door open to prosecute for influence, which can be signifigantly less than .08. I personally know people that were charged with and convicted of DUI who blew .03 +/-.

I'm only mentioning this because I don't want some 21-year old newb reading this and thinking he's good to go at .07. You can be charged, and will probably be convicted, especially if an accident involved - and definately here in AZ (or Phoenix, at least).
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:41:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:03:42 AM EDT by Dance]

Originally Posted By Slacker:
NC law regarding CCW and drinking.

"It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed"
www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-415.11.html



More nanny-state laws

Just a way for the govt to arbitrarily restrict a right.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:12:38 AM EDT
ANY quantity of alcohol CAN affect your JUDGEMENT. You are going to be in enough trouble if you have to shoot in self-defense WITHOUT testing positive for alcohol in your system. You will be questioned, probably charged and have to mount a legal defense. If you think you are going to get a pat on the back from the police and a thumbs up from the prosecutor, then you need to have a reality check.



Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:24:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AFARR:
ANY quantity of alcohol CAN affect your JUDGEMENT. You are going to be in enough trouble if you have to shoot in self-defense WITHOUT testing positive for alcohol in your system. You will be questioned, probably charged and have to mount a legal defense. If you think you are going to get a pat on the back from the police and a thumbs up from the prosecutor, then you need to have a reality check.




So I just took 2 ounces of cough syrup that has alcohol in it, I shouldn't be "allowed" to ccw?

I just had a piece of rum raisen cake dining out. The cake had roughly 1 ounce of rum in it. I shouldn't be "allowed" to ccw.

As to affecting judgement:

I only got 4 hours of sleep last night. Getting less then 8 hours of sleep a night effects a persons judgement. I guess I shouldn't have a right to protect myself by ccw until i sleep for 8 or 10 hours?

I broke up with my girlfriend yesterday. Psychological turmoil effects judgement. I guess I shouldn't have the right to protect myself with ccw until I am over the break-up.

I am 65 years old. Cognitive functions in older people taper off generally after 40 so my judgement may not be as good as a 25 year olds. I guess I shouldn't have the right to ccw.

How much alcohol does it take to effect judgement? How is judgement effected? Loads of other things effect judgement as well, I guess they should all be regulated too.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:27:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I disagree. If I'm sober enough to drive, I'm sober enough to shoot.

I have to hand it to Europeans. Virtually all of their shooting clubs and activities include alcohol at some point during the proceedings. But I think their attitude about alcohol is a bit more mature than ours.



Europeans have just as many, if not more problems with all forms of substance abuse as Americans do. They are not paragons of virtue when it comes to alcohol, believe me. I grew up in Germany, saw lots of drunks, and bad things done with guns.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:44:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
I go out and have a beer or two while CCW all the time. There's never been a problem. I never drink more than a few beers at a time while CCWing, though. PA has no law specifically prohibiting carrying while drinking as far as I know.



same with NY, at least I haven't found one
Buffalo has one, can't be at .1% or higher, same as DWI (although NY has recently dropped DWI to .08
That said, if I'm carrying I don't have more than 1 beer, usually while eating food, and I stretch it out to take as long as possible to drink it so I never get even a hint of a buzz
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:56:39 AM EDT
If it were me, I and was carry a gun, I wouldn't be consuming alcohol, but remember a gun and motor has about the same potential to kill.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:16:49 AM EDT

So I just took 2 ounces of cough syrup that has alcohol in it, I shouldn't be "allowed" to ccw?

I just had a piece of rum raisen cake dining out. The cake had roughly 1 ounce of rum in it. I shouldn't be "allowed" to ccw.

As to affecting judgement:

I only got 4 hours of sleep last night. Getting less then 8 hours of sleep a night effects a persons judgement. I guess I shouldn't have a right to protect myself by ccw until i sleep for 8 or 10 hours?

I broke up with my girlfriend yesterday. Psychological turmoil effects judgement. I guess I shouldn't have the right to protect myself with ccw until I am over the break-up.

I am 65 years old. Cognitive functions in older people taper off generally after 40 so my judgement may not be as good as a 25 year olds. I guess I shouldn't have the right to ccw.

How much alcohol does it take to effect judgement? How is judgement effected? Loads of other things effect judgement as well, I guess they should all be regulated too.



No, they should NOT be regulated...however--say you go to the ATM (after any one of the above) and someone approaches. You warn them off. They keep coming. You Draw--they reach in their coat. You shoot. Turns out it was a guy talking on his cell phone headset (ignoring you) and was looking for his wallet to get the ATM card out.

Now--if you test + for Alcohol, or the prosecutor finds out you broke up with your girlfriend, or you are an old geezer. You think that won't weigh in your Manslaughter trial? I don't think the gov.org should regulate shit, but the person carrying SHOULD realize that ANY of those things can affect judgment. If I am in a REALLY foul mood, I certainly don't want to take a CCW to a place where I might get into a fight--better to stay at home and post on ARF.com....
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:26:41 AM EDT
I'm with Dance on this one. More nanny state bullshit. You made the decision to carry, you live with it.

One of my favorite things to do when I get home from work, is to grill out. While out there having a few beers and shoot the .22 at the pistol targets. You don't think shooting and drinking go together, that's fine.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:30:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:
I'm with Dance on this one. More nanny state bullshit. You made the decision to carry, you live with it.

One of my favorite things to do when I get home from work, is to grill out. While out there having a few beers and shoot the .22 at the pistol targets. You don't think shooting and drinking go together, that's fine.



Amen.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:31:59 AM EDT
Disagree.


Some folks get nutty when drinking, and probably shouldn't be carrying at all.


Others of us keep our heads.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:33:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 8:38:45 AM EDT by BURN]

Originally Posted By npd233:
No, it's not ok to drive a car at .799 .079, at least for most people. .80 .080 is the legal limit at which you cannot drive, whether you seem impaired or not. Most people at .799 .079 will exhibit obvious signs of impairment.


edited to fix the mistake. Thanks for pointing it out Chokey!



I disagree a few people will exhibit signs of impairment you know the ones that are driving fucked up and we pull them over then they blow a 0.06 but were all over the road and couldnt pass a SFST. A lot more people drink and drive then we catch....remeber DUI used to be .21 or .23 (cant remeber)bac when they sarted oh so many years ago. it gets lower because of the "FEW" that are truly imparied and for the revenue it brings....
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:38:51 AM EDT
This is all political.

.08 from MADD via congress as blackmail with federal road subsidies in the works. MADD is anti alcohol and they have become as rabid as the other communist nanny state "for your own good groups". They have their head up their ass. They have as of late branched into other drugs as well on the side with impairment laws. MADD is ANTI-FREEDOM.

The anti gun crowd should be named the anti-American crowd. They are also the ANTI-FREEDOM crowd. They would rather see your body on TV than anything else. It’s not personal but they like blood and then decry the horror of it all to whip up more laws and more penalties to “make you safer”. Anything that they can do to create more felonies means you will likely be ensnared into loosing your rights.

You want to shoot drunk or after drinking fine. If you want to drive after drinking, fine. If you fuck up then prepare to kiss your ass goodbye. Impairment comes in many forms.

Safety does not exist, quit pretending that it does.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:45:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BURN:

Originally Posted By npd233:
No, it's not ok to drive a car at .799 .079, at least for most people. .80 .080 is the legal limit at which you cannot drive, whether you seem impaired or not. Most people at .799 .079 will exhibit obvious signs of impairment.


edited to fix the mistake. Thanks for pointing it out Chokey!



I disagree a few people will exhibit signs of impairment you know the ones that are driving fucked up and we pull them over then they blow a 0.06 but were all over the road and couldnt pass a SFST. A lot more people drink and drive then we catch....remeber DUI used to be .21 or .23 (cant remeber)bac when they sarted oh so many years ago. it gets lower because of the "FEW" that are truly imparied and for the revenue it brings....



There is the real motivation.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:08:29 AM EDT
I think people generally shoot better after a beer or two, their judgment I imagine is case by case. If it means more bad guys shot and kept out of the criminal justice system than I'm all for responseible drinking and ccw. LOL!

This DUI pull over everyone to make more money stuff is way out hand, I got pulled for speeding and the sheriff tried to tell me I was drinking and kept me pulled over for an hour until he gave up.

On New Years a cop pulled over my wife and first thing he said was are you drinking? He said the reason he pulled her over was that she was weaving, which he just made up to pull us over. He was just profiling my truck which is big and jacked up.

Most leo's act so far above the law now, even leo's that are considered somewhat concerned with our rights do stuff the leo's woulnt have thought of 10 years ago.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:21:31 AM EDT
I think those that think it's OK to drink and carry are those that would knee-jerk any reaction of someone telling them what to do or what is right and what isn't.

I bet you guys are the same assholes that give cops a tough time after YOU do something stupid or break the law to some degree.

Non-conformist if you will. People that think they're more special then the next guy.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:27:47 AM EDT
We don't need some nouveau Christian temperance movement.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:14:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I think those that think it's OK to drink and carry are those that would knee-jerk any reaction of someone telling them what to do or what is right and what isn't.

I bet you guys are the same assholes that give cops a tough time after YOU do something stupid or break the law to some degree.

Non-conformist if you will. People that think they're more special then the next guy.





Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:18:46 PM EDT
In Illinois, a result of .05 to .079 is still evidence of impairment, although not conclusive. Only below .05 is a driver 'presumed' to not be impaired. Even that presumption can be overcome.
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