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Posted: 12/19/2005 6:03:28 PM EDT
I thought I'd forward this question......I just took my CCW class, and there was noone there that even knew a damn thing about their guns......Save a South African PD guy, who shot light out

Ok..My shooting isn't great. I posted it.

I was the second best in my class. The instructor told everyone that they needed to train, or,
they would wind up like the last renewal class.....Last time they shot? Qual.

Why don't you train?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:14:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:14:54 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

My guess is most excuses will be in the categories of: lazy, stupid, cheap or overconfident. (of course, most people that don't train aren't going to post in this thread )



I probably fall into the "overconfident" category - thinking that I can rely on my military (infantry) training from years ago, trips to the shooting range and the occasional COF at MODCC/CMMG shoots.



Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:17:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:17:44 PM EDT by WildBoar]
I post on an internet gun board and talk a big game. If I take about guns enough, I will become tactical.






I am going to say, cheap, lazy, overconfident. A mix of the three. Range is a PITA and there isnt much time anymore. I guess if I lived out in the country it would be different.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:18:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:21:06 PM EDT
I'm ashamed to say I haven't professionally trained in over two years, work and vacation time schedules haven't allowed. 2006 I'm trying to get in a couple of classes, but many are already full. I do shoot regularly to refresh what I have previously learned.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:21:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
My guess is most excuses will be in the categories of: lazy, stupid, cheap or overconfident. (of course, most people that don't train aren't going to post in this thread )



I probably fall into the "overconfident" category - thinking that I can rely on my military (infantry) training from years ago, trips to the shooting range and the occasional COF at MODCC/CMMG shoots.






Thaks for answering up. :)
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:22:30 PM EDT
I train by myself and with friends, but I do need to take more courses with professionals. Maybe this Spring.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:24:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Why don't you train?




What choo 'talkin 'bout, Willis?


I do take training courses
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:28:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:32:11 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:30:19 PM EDT
'cause it just ain't train'n if it ain't rain'n.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:54:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:05:20 PM EDT
Post military, I've done a couple of courses, but the good ones are not close and expensive. I'm putting some $$$ away for Rifles only, Crucible or Gunsite.

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:07:04 PM EDT
Every quarter I seek out professional firearms instruction.

Every two weeks, at a minium, I am at the range.

Every week I train in defense-other-than-gun.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:09:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I thought I'd forward this question......I just took my CCW class, and there was noone there that even knew a damn thing about their guns......Save a South African PD guy, who shot light out

Ok..My shooting isn't great. I posted it.

I was the second best in my class. The instructor told everyone that they needed to train, or,
they would wind up like the last renewal class.....Last time they shot? Qual.

Why don't you train?



Are you drunk
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:14:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I thought I'd forward this question......I just took my CCW class, and there was noone there that even knew a damn thing about their guns......Save a South African PD guy, who shot light out

Ok..My shooting isn't great. I posted it.

I was the second best in my class. The instructor told everyone that they needed to train, or,
they would wind up like the last renewal class.....Last time they shot? Qual.

Why don't you train?



Are you drunk





Get out of my head!

Not yet....

Getting there.

I hate you, BTW.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:17:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I can't even understand what you are asking?

What does who shot lite out mean?

What does Qual. mean?




TXCHL Re-qual.

Means they haven't shot thier CCW gun in 4 years.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:18:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
I post on an internet gun board and talk a big game. If I take about guns enough, I will become tactical.






I am going to say, cheap, lazy, overconfident. A mix of the three. Range is a PITA and there isnt much time anymore. I guess if I lived out in the country it would be different.





sounds like alot on here, good post!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:19:37 PM EDT
Honestly, I think lack of experience is the main reason, it often takes a real wake-p call for people to truely see the need for training.

Problem is experience is a hard, hard teacher. You get the exam before the lesson.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:20:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:21:02 PM EDT
Well there are those that are lazy, but I don't think its fair to put those that don't currently have the time or money down because of it.

In a lot of states you don't have to pass any course to get a CCW. Why does it matter? To many folks dropping hundreds or thousands a year/biyearly/quarterly on training is a lot of money they can better spend.

Believe it or not 99.9% of gun owners will never use their gun in any tactical scenario.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:21:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I can't even understand what you are asking?

What does who shot lite out mean?

What does Qual. mean?




I meant to say "Lights out". He shot a solid hole Center Mass (Lights out)

The guy was great.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:21:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
'cause it just ain't train'n if it ain't rain'n.



In the Army, if it weren't raining, there'd better be a mermite can full of chili mac to make up for it. One or the other or preferably both had to occur or your field exercise was a complete waste.

That said, this year, I took Competition Pistol, Beyond the Basics Pistol, Force on Force and Low Light Force on Force. I've also started going to the IDPA matches Texas Tactical holds to give me a little extra practice. So far, I'm slow, but I hit the targets, and my speed will improve.

But see, I like this stuff. Chances for me to use my regular carry gear and draw and fire are harder to get when most of the shooting I can do is punching paper at the range.

One thing, though, my draw is a two stage sort of thing. I draw to a retention position, and from there, I present. So, I can practice the first part dry fire at home, then when I'm at the range, I can practice presenting and firing, which covers the whole second part of the draw and the sight alignment. So, it's even possible to get some practice in things you need for defense if you can't do the whole kit and kaboodle.

When I did the Qual for my CHL, I dropped a point. 249/250. I knew then I needed more practice.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:23:03 PM EDT
Money for ammo currently.

Rumor has it I'm getting paid soon, and there will be enough for guns and ammo galore! Yay!

Until then, I do dryfire practice in my apartment. Better than nothing.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:25:33 PM EDT
I shoot drills at least every two weeks. Usually every week.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:26:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
they're afraid to the learn the extent of their ignorance and display their lack of skill.

when I first started on this list I exhorted others to go to school and most (nearly all) had tons of arguements against going. Some here took the advice and almost all later posted that they had learned an incredible amount by "going to school."



Heh

They all do.

The CCW instrucot I had took a course from Max Josepeh, (TFTT) and,
used me as an expample of how you should seek training. I'm a friggin training addict now.

One good training class in a year isn't too much if you carry.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:27:45 PM EDT
To answer the original question, I think a lot of people don't go to training because of a few reasons:

1. It's hard to find training close to where they live.
2. It's expensive and people have to be able to afford hookers and blow.
3. Some people think they don't need it.
4. Some people get a CHL and never intend to actually carry.
5. Football and beer.

Anyway, lots of reasons. And seriously, there's a sizable percent of people who get a CHL and know before they go in the class that they aren't going to carry. There was a gal in my class who had no intent to ever carry.

She was a good kisser, though, so I won't hold that against her.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:32:44 PM EDT
I bought a membership to the local indoor range when I turned 21 (ten years ago, man I feel old now!)
My bud and I shoot for about 2 hours every Tuesday. All the drills you read about, and some we came up with. (Get some of those color change targets and play tic-tac-toe or chase the bullet)
Costs me about $120/year for the membership plus ammo (which I buy in LARGE BULK)
Great recreation, good practice, keeps the carry pieces tuned and my confidence up in the fact that they'll work if the shtf.
I shot in a couple IDPA and GSSF, not my thing...
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:33:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kk7sm:
To answer the original question, I think a lot of people don't go to training because of a few reasons:

1. It's hard to find training close to where they live.
2. It's expensive and people have to be able to afford hookers and blow.
3. Some people think they don't need it.
4. Some people get a CHL and never intend to actually carry.
5. Football and beer.

Anyway, lots of reasons. And seriously, there's a sizable percent of people who get a CHL and know before they go in the class that they aren't going to carry. There was a gal in my class who had no intent to ever carry.

She was a good kisser, though, so I won't hold that against her.



I don't buy #1. BS.

#2...Yeah...Hookers are important.

#3. Why would they need it? No reason to train with a tool that might save your life.
-Never mind, if you've make this excuse.....
#4 ?
#5 Football is good.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:36:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SciFiNut:
I bought a membership to the local indoor range when I turned 21 (ten years ago, man I feel old now!)
My bud and I shoot for about 2 hours every Tuesday. All the drills you read about, and some we came up with. (Get some of those color change targets and play tic-tac-toe or chase the bullet)
Costs me about $120/year for the membership plus ammo (which I buy in LARGE BULK)
Great recreation, good practice, keeps the carry pieces tuned and my confidence up in the fact that they'll work if the shtf.
I shot in a couple IDPA and GSSF, not my thing...



IDPA is teh Ghey AFAIK.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:44:14 PM EDT
Because I'm cheap and too poor a shot to move off of targets just yet.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:46:18 PM EDT
I can't afford training. At least not until I get a different job & am making more money.

I pay my bills, and I have a little left over to buy ammo. That's why I only own two firearms.
There's always LOTS of room to improve, which is why I spend my money on ammo instead of new toys.

I'd like to take a CQB/carbine course someday though, just for the fun of it. I think it'd be exciting.
Although, I might be the only one there with a 20" A2

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:48:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GerberSchwintz:
Because I'm cheap and too poor a shot to move off of targets just yet.



Thanks for your input.

Seriously, look at some classes in your area. I'm sure hometown forums can hook you up.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:01:38 PM EDT
Some of us do.
I work out, swim when I can, jog, hike, hunt.

Winter is my handgun training time. When I hike I use twigs sticking up out of the snow as targets. Small hills of course.
Aimed fire.
Rapid fire, multiple targets
2 and 3 shot bursts
I've gotten pretty good. I can really kick ass with my Glock.

Carbine:
1]I have a small wooded gully by me.
Staple paper plates to stumps and work my way through using evasive tactics, shooting as I go.

2]Range
Usually have to myself and is remote.
Clays on berms etc. Engage as rapidly as possible, sometimes with movement, sometimes from a bench.

3]Quarry
clays up side scattered all over it.
Engage as rapidly as possible.
That one is more fun with others for a little competition.

That's what I do but hey, I'm crazy.



BTW, grouse hunting is great practice.

I got one last year while running after it through the forest. It finally flew and I pulled off the shot while still running behind it. I like telling that story.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:05:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:05:40 PM EDT by ML1911]
I guess that I am fortunate, I am a range officer at the local SO and we have range sessions once a month. I usually end up running about half of them. I am able to get in quite a bit of trigger time on the office's ammo.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:10:52 PM EDT
well i go out and train against rabbits and coyotes. shoot every day and every year i do shoot or dont shoot with the local sherrif dept. really thought all of that is for fun i dont need to train for anything. if zombies attack ill just run them over .hug.gif
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Some of us do.
I work out, swim when I can, jog, hike, hunt.

Winter is my handgun training time. When I hike I use twigs sticking up out of the snow as targets. Small hills of course.
Aimed fire.
Rapid fire, multiple targets
2 and 3 shot bursts
I've gotten pretty good. I can really kick ass with my Glock.

Carbine:
1]I have a small wooded gully by me.
Staple paper plates to stumps and work my way through using evasive tactics, shooting as I go.

2]Range
Usually have to myself and is remote.
Clays on berms etc. Engage as rapidly as possible, sometimes with movement, sometimes from a bench.

3]Quarry
clays up side scattered all over it.
Engage as rapidly as possible.
That one is more fun with others for a little competition.

That's what I do but hey, I'm crazy.



BTW, grouse hunting is great practice.

I got one last year while running after it through the forest. It finally flew and I pulled off the shot while still running behind it. I like telling that story.



Ok. You're crazy.

Love it. Wish I lived there.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:20:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SciFiNut:

Costs me about $120/year for the membership plus ammo (which I buy in LARGE BULK)



I buy in bulk too. Old UPS guy was really cool. New one hates me but he's a dick to everyone. Sometimes he makes me come out and get the shit off the truck.

I go through that easy on one trip to the range. Sometimes 2-3 X that if I bring the subgun along also. Yeah, it's expensive but I like doing it and it gives me a chance to blow off a little steam.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:24:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Some of us do.
I work out, swim when I can, jog, hike, hunt.

Winter is my handgun training time. When I hike I use twigs sticking up out of the snow as targets. Small hills of course.
Aimed fire.
Rapid fire, multiple targets
2 and 3 shot bursts
I've gotten pretty good. I can really kick ass with my Glock.

Carbine:
1]I have a small wooded gully by me.
Staple paper plates to stumps and work my way through using evasive tactics, shooting as I go.

2]Range
Usually have to myself and is remote.
Clays on berms etc. Engage as rapidly as possible, sometimes with movement, sometimes from a bench.

3]Quarry
clays up side scattered all over it.
Engage as rapidly as possible.
That one is more fun with others for a little competition.

That's what I do but hey, I'm crazy.



BTW, grouse hunting is great practice.

I got one last year while running after it through the forest. It finally flew and I pulled off the shot while still running behind it. I like telling that story.



Ok. You're crazy.

Love it. Wish I lived there.



Well, it was -6 with 20mph winds this AM when we got up.
But yeah, I like it here pretty well. I need a place with even less people though. GD FIBs are screwing the place up.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:27:57 PM EDT
oh I don't have to train I have a laser on my pistol. All I have to do is point and click.
in all seriousness though I used to shoot handgun at least once a week normally more. get into alot of training and it makes it tough. I need to find a decent range up here now and I have been looking around. My handguns will be up in the next week. I promis I will start shooting more and if I can find some decenet somewhat cheap classes I will jump on that. Gotta remember Im just a poor young soldier no cash coughstriperscough
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:28:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:30:06 PM EDT by Goonboss]
ETA: In reply to you WI guys.


I'm presently stationed in very pleasant Appleton, WI.

This friggin cold is KILLING ME!

I'm HOPEING I'm OUTTA HER BY FRIDAY!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:35:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:38:57 PM EDT by motown_steve]
1. I shoot every weekend.

2. Up until now I have been completely self taught. I am just now begining to realize that I need to get some professional help to identify my bad habits and rectify them, as well as teach me the techniques that I need to for defensive situations.

3. Most people think that if you can hit a piece of paper at 10 yards with a handgun, or if you can shoot a deer then you have all the skills that you need to survive a lethal encounter with another human. I honestly don't know if they're right or wrong. There are alot of armed citizens out there who have successfully defended themselves with a firearm, even though they have never been to training.

ETA -

4. Most ranges that I have ever been to frown upon having you do anything other than standard target shooting. If you're lucky, then you can practice drawing your pistol from a concealed position and engaging the stationary paper target directly infront of you without getting yelled at. As for shoot-and-move or engaging multiple targets, forget it. They'll throw you off the range so fast your head'll spin.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

I'm HOPEING I'm OUTTA HER BY FRIDAY!



What the hell is her name????
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
ETA: In reply to you WI guys.


I'm presently stationed in very pleasant Appleton, WI.

This friggin cold is KILLING ME!

I'm HOPEING I'm OUTTA HER BY FRIDAY!



Appleton is a decent place for a city. WI used to be nicer until all the shit from Milw and Chicago started coming up. Only brought problems.

I grew up in Green Bay and went to college in Oshkosh. I've lived in Milwaukee, Manitowoc, Two Rivers, Wausau in addition besides where I live now which is right on the UP border. Best place yet and surrounded by National Forest. View from my deck:

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:43:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:52:43 PM EDT by Goonboss]

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
ETA: In reply to you WI guys.


I'm presently stationed in very pleasant Appleton, WI.

This friggin cold is KILLING ME!

I'm HOPEING I'm OUTTA HER BY FRIDAY!



Appleton is a decent place for a city. WI used to be nicer until all the shit from Milw and Chicago started coming up. Only brought problems.

I grew up in Green Bay and went to college in Oshkosh. I've lived in Milwaukee, Manitowoc, Two Rivers, Wausau in addition besides where I live now which is right on the UP border. Best place yet and surrounded by National Forest. View from my deck:

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=39269



Im sitting in the Extended Stay America, and, looking out my window. I don't see that.

ETA: My first job for my present company was in Maitowoc.

I suspect "Manitowoc" is indian for..."Town of many bars"
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:43:59 PM EDT
i'm underage
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:44:22 PM EDT
If money is a problem, check your local community colleges. One of ours has a Admin of Justice program, which includes all the training for AZ POST certs. Pistol, Patrol Carbine, Shotgun, Precision Rifle. Most of these have level I and II classes, and they are only $100 for a 2 day course.

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:48:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
1. I shoot every weekend.

2. Up until now I have been completely self taught. I am just now begining to realize that I need to get some professional help to identify my bad habits and rectify them, as well as teach me the techniques that I need to for defensive situations.

3. Most people think that if you can hit a piece of paper at 10 yards with a handgun, or if you can shoot a deer then you have all the skills that you need to survive a lethal encounter with another human. I honestly don't know if they're right or wrong. There are alot of armed citizens out there who have successfully defended themselves with a firearm, even though they have never been to training.

ETA -

4. Most ranges that I have ever been to frown upon having you do anything other than standard target shooting. If you're lucky, then you can practice drawing your pistol from a concealed position and engaging the stationary paper target directly infront of you without getting yelled at. As for shoot-and-move or engaging multiple targets, forget it. They'll throw you off the range so fast your head'll spin.



I fyou live anywhere near Waco, I'll hook you up witha GREAT range. You can do all kinds of tactical stuff...Dumpsters...Wood barriers..etc..During the weekdays.

I LOVE my range.

Rangemaster and co are ARFCOMERS too.

www.carlchandler.com/index.html

Best range ever.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:51:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
ETA: In reply to you WI guys.


I'm presently stationed in very pleasant Appleton, WI.

This friggin cold is KILLING ME!

I'm HOPEING I'm OUTTA HER BY FRIDAY!



Appleton is a decent place for a city. WI used to be nicer until all the shit from Milw and Chicago started coming up. Only brought problems.

I grew up in Green Bay and went to college in Oshkosh. I've lived in Milwaukee, Manitowoc, Two Rivers, Wausau in addition besides where I live now which is right on the UP border. Best place yet and surrounded by National Forest. View from my deck:

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=39269



Im sitting in the Extended Stay America, and, looking out my window. I don't see that.



Right now either do I!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:55:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

I don't buy #1. BS.



Of course, but in our society, if something isn't super convenient, a lot of people won't bother with it. If they can't get to the training in 30 minutes, they're just not interested.


#3. Why would they need it? No reason to train with a tool that might save your life.
-Never mind, if you've make this excuse.....



Lots of uber-tactical people think this way. They were elite SEAL Space Shuttle Door Gunners and don't need training because they know more than the instructor. Honestly, I'd prefer those guys not be in my class since they're a distraction.


#4 ?


There are people who get a CHL but have no intent to carry. I can't justify it, but they do it anyway. I guess maybe for the NICS alternative or something. Or they just want to take a class. I dunno.


#5 Football is good.


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