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Posted: 12/19/2005 8:09:46 AM EDT
What to Offer Ahmadinejad?"

Oh the dilemmas of post-modern statecraft.



Mahmoud Ahmadinejad`s recent anti-Semitic remarks may have dealt a fatal blow to the already fragile negotiation process due to restart next week over Iran`s nuclear program, German experts have said.

'His comments throw a shadow over the whole negotiation process,' Erwin Haeckel, Iran expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations, a Berlin-based foreign policy think tank on Thursday told United Press International in a telephone interview. 'There is a
certain feeling of helplessness: What to do with Ahmadinejad, what to offer him?' (ht: Regime Change Iran)



Two things. First, the Europeans feel helpless because they are helpless. They have allowed themselves to wither into this state of abject helplessness. To quote Robert Kagan, when you don't have a hammer, no problem looks like a nail.

Second, the German quoted above, Haeckel, is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with contemporary "internationalism." He flounders about trying to decipher the Iranian "signals," examining the larger context and then the context still larger than that. He sends emails and makes phone calls trying to decode the subtleties. Haeckel and his associates throughout the diplomatic elite always try to make things more complicated than they are. Ahmadinejad has been very clear and honest and straightforward. He is nothing if not sincere. He has repeatedly answered the hapless German's question.

What to offer Ahmadinejad? It's simple: the Jews.

Permanent Link | Posted by Thomas the Wraith at 4:55:00 PM | comments
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:13:05 AM EDT


...what to offer him?



How about: "Comply, or we'll unleash the Israelis on your ass...with some help from USAF KC-135s and USN EA-6Bs."
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:29:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:30:01 AM EDT by raven]
The Europeans scolded us on our "unilateral", bellicose approach to rogue countries we thought were developing WMDs, but at least it's pretty well settled now that Saddam wasn't making them and never will again.

Now we get to see the multilateral, diplomatic, UN/European approach to WMD proliferation in action in Iran and the results.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:42:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:43:20 AM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Unfortunately I dont see much effort out of Washington to do anything about this.

Its like they are now playing the WOT now to not lose instead of to win.

They are more concerned with "not being run out of Iraq" and appearing weak than with eliminating the threat.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:49:18 AM EDT
Im sure the Israeli's know EXACTLY what to do and will, if the present course of action pursued bu Iran continues
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:49:38 AM EDT
I can't wait for the Israelis to put this lunatic out of the nuclear business. It's coming real quick, and it's gonna be interesting to watch.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:53:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Unfortunately I dont see much effort out of Washington to do anything about this.

Its like they are now playing the WOT now to not lose instead of to win.

They are more concerned with "not being run out of Iraq" and appearing weak than with eliminating the threat.



How about giving the EU enough rope to hang themselves with? If we can show that these countries will NOT comply with anything but force, perhaps the winds will blow in our favor on the international scene.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:53:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
He flounders about trying to decipher the Iranian "signals," examining the larger context and then the context still larger than that. He sends emails and makes phone calls trying to decode the subtleties.



The signal is that they hate us and want us dead.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:53:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
Im sure the Israeli's know EXACTLY what to do and will, if the present course of action pursued bu Iran continues



Israel cant do shit about it.

Even if we let them fly over Iraq. Isreal cannot invade Iran and remove the goverment.

Bombing is no solution. The Iraninans have learned and now have something like SIXTEEN different facilites involved with nuclear research.

Even if we bombed them, guess what? They would just start over again.

Only the removal of the goverment will stop them from eventually acquiring nuclear weapons.

And even though the bulk of the populace would not weep for their goverments demise, they saw what happened to their Shiia breatherin in Iraq in 1991 when they tried to rise against the military.

There will be no revolution in Iran untill there is a large and irrevocable commitment of US troops into the country.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:55:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Unfortunately I dont see much effort out of Washington to do anything about this.

Its like they are now playing the WOT now to not lose instead of to win.

They are more concerned with "not being run out of Iraq" and appearing weak than with eliminating the threat.



The problem with the US right now is that they are preoccupied.
When things settle in Iraq,(Hopefully) then it is time to deal with them.

For the time being, we could hire a bunch of prodommes with strapons. Then send them over to let them know that is the best it will get, if we have to attack.

Bilster
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:02:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DOW:
I can't wait for the Israelis to put this lunatic out of the nuclear business. It's coming real quick, and it's gonna be interesting to watch.



It's going to be damn ugly. The Israelis don't have the aircraft to take out the whole complex in one fell swoop. And the Iranians are likely to make counter-moves, including stirring up trouble with their allies in Iraq and shooting missiles at all and sundry. The Straits of Hormuz are likely to be closed for a while, with all that implies for oil prices.

Unfortunatel the alternative--doing nothing--is even worse.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:02:48 AM EDT
I have a relative who follows this pretty close, and he theorizes that if Israel takes out Iran's nuke capability they'll kill Russian citizens on the ground, and Russia will declare war on Israel with Iran as an ally.
If he's right it's gonna get real ugly real fast.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:13:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 9:14:10 AM EDT by gunman0]

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
Im sure the Israeli's know EXACTLY what to do and will, if the present course of action pursued bu Iran continues



Israel cant do shit about it.

Even if we let them fly over Iraq. Isreal cannot invade Iran and remove the goverment.

Bombing is no solution. The Iraninans have learned and now have something like SIXTEEN different facilites involved with nuclear research.

Even if we bombed them, guess what? They would just start over again.

Only the removal of the goverment will stop them from eventually acquiring nuclear weapons.

And even though the bulk of the populace would not weep for their goverments demise, they saw what happened to their Shiia breatherin in Iraq in 1991 when they tried to rise against the military.

There will be no revolution in Iran untill there is a large and irrevocable commitment of US troops into the country.



The Iranian nuclear weapons situation is something we all can assume was 100% predicted as a consequence of the WOT.

The new democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq, and their free presses are threats to the leaders in power in all of the other middle eastern nations. Some are dealing with the threats positively, like Jordan, and moving toward democracy in their own nations. Iran was one we knew would become more hostile and not make any positive changes.

I'm not sure what the plan for Iran was/is, but there is not much we can do at this point. Maybe the plan was to isolate Iran like North Korea, although that hasn't been a very positive endeavor.

And Europe is doing nothing about the Iranian threat, even though they are more likely direct targets than the US. Talking about sanctions again that have never accomplished anything with any nation. The only possible nation to claim sanctions worked is Libya, and those were US only sanctions. But Libya really only changed its tune due to the perceived threat of military action. Sanctions never have, and never will work to accomplish change in "rogue" nations.

IMHO the best thing we could do, is a large scale strike that kills Iranian leaders, without any Israeli involvement, and leave it alone for a while, no invasion at least not right away. The reason Libya changed its tune was Qaddafi figured we was going to be one of the leaders dethroned. His options were straight forward, change or be killed/imprisoned. I'm sure his cohorts were also pressuring him as they felt the heat from the US, too. If we don't deal with Iran, things will go back to the way they were where foreign dictators did not fear aggressive moves against the US. The worst case scenario was sanctions, and those don't really hurt the people in power. The new threat is death/imprisonment, and that is the only one that works.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Unfortunately I dont see much effort out of Washington to do anything about this.

Its like they are now playing the WOT now to not lose instead of to win.

They are more concerned with "not being run out of Iraq" and appearing weak than with eliminating the threat.



What do you expect? With the MSM and democraps continuously harping their BS propaganda of how we've lost, we're the bad guys, etc and generally aiding and abetting our enemies of course the admin must respond to it and that causes the focus to shift unfortunately. If the media and democraps would unite behind the WOT it would probably end alot sooner and with less bloodshed and other areas could receive the attention they need. I firmly believe the democraps would rather see the US surrender and be subjugated than to see a republican president or the USA succeed. Their actions (and the MSM) prove it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:41:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgredo:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
He flounders about trying to decipher the Iranian "signals," examining the larger context and then the context still larger than that. He sends emails and makes phone calls trying to decode the subtleties.



The signal is that they hate us and want us dead.



Amen to that. Damned pity half of this country is to damn dense to recognize it.
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