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Posted: 12/19/2005 5:44:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 5:52:43 AM EDT by Hokie]
Did anyone watch Bush last night? He sounds desperate. He kept going on about how we can't leave Iraq, because the world must know America keeps its word. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that his father didn't keep his word when he told the Shiites he'd support their anti-Saddam uprising toward the end of Desert Storm. The Shiites rose up, looked for U.S. help, and it was nowhere. Then Saddam delivered the war hammer to their heads.

Bush said, "Iraq is a 'Fight for Freedom'" Do you feel real free now? I do, free to write over my future paychecks to make the minimum payments on the Chinese money we've borrowed to fund this war. Yes, China buys the bulk of U.S. bonds. China, India and JAP-an.

And in case you didn't hear, ole Cheney made a surprise visit to Iraq and took questions from troops. Even the boys on the ground, long known for supporting their leader, appear fed up with the political crap - which I guess is no suprise from no nonsense get'r'done soldiers such as ours.

FMI: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/12/18/international/i121811S43.DTL&type=printable

If we'd done Afghanistan fully and completely, and skipped Iraq, we'd still have the military resources available to fuck up Iran and/or North Korea - America's REAL threats. Yeah, we could do Iran with actual international support, too, as most of the world is now raising an eyebrow at them, so we wouldn't have to fund the whole gig ourselves. And by international support I mean countries with actual money and troops - Germany, France, etc. As opposed to Bush's interpreation of international support which means Poland sends 12 officers to train Iraqi's in exchange for U.S. trade favors and assistance.

*sip of morning coffee*

<shrug> It's Monday. For the record, I don't think we should leave Iraq, but I do question my own beliefs from time to time....

I think I'd feel better if Bush could speak better and provided more of a concrete agenda to get America out of that shithole instead of trying to surf the wave of public opinion. We started it and now must finish it.

So let's fucking finish it already. Less talk and more action...and if he's gonna talk....fine, but do a better job at it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:53:22 AM EDT
Better step on it because when his Presidency is over so is this country's committment to Iraq
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:53:32 AM EDT
*sigh*


I buy more from my grocer than he buys from me, and I bet it's the same with you and your grocer. That means we have a trade deficit with our grocers. Does our perpetual grocer trade deficit portend doom? If we heeded some pundits and politicians who are talking about our national trade deficit, we might think so. But do we have a trade deficit in the first place? Let's look at it.

Insofar as the grocer example, there are two accounts that I hold. One is my "goods" account, which consists of groceries. The other is my "capital" account, which consists of money. Let's look at what happens when I purchase groceries. Say I purchase $100 worth of groceries. The value of my goods account rises by $100. That rise is matched by an equal $100 decline in my capital account. Adding a plus $100 to a minus $100 yields a perfect trade balance. That transaction, from my grocer's point of view, results in his goods account falling by $100, but when he accepts my cash, his capital account rises by $100, again a trade balance.

The principle here differs not one iota if my grocer was located in another country as opposed to down the street. There'd still be a trade balance when both the goods account and the capital account are considered. Imbalances in goods accounts are all over the place. For example, my grocer buys more from his wholesaler than his wholesaler buys from him. The wholesaler buys more from the manufacturer than the manufacturer buys from him, but when we put capital accounts into the mix, in each case, trade is balanced.

International trade operates under the identical principle. When we as consumers purchase goods from China, and the Chinese don't purchase a like amount of goods from us, it is said that there's a trade deficit. But instead of purchasing goods, the Chinese might purchase corporate stocks, bonds or U.S. Treasury debt instruments. Just as in my grocer example, there is a balance of trade. The deficit in our nation's goods and services account, sometimes called current account, is matched by a surplus of equal magnitude in our capital account. A large portion of surpluses in our capital account consists of U.S. Treasury debt instruments held by foreigners. As of June 2004, China held nearly $200 billion, Japan over $1 trillion, and Europe combined held over $2 trillion.

Some politicians gripe about all the U.S. debt held by foreigners. Only a politician can have that kind of audacity. Guess who's creating the debt instruments that foreigners hold? If you said it's our profligate Congress, go to the head of the class. If foreigners didn't purchase so much of our debt, we'd be worse off in terms of higher inflation and interest rates. What about the possibility of foreigners dumping our debt? Foreigners aren't stupid. Dumping large amounts of Treasury bonds would drive down their value. Foreigners as well as we would take a hit.

The fact that foreigners are willing to exchange massive amounts of goods in exchange for slips of paper in the forms of currency, stocks and bonds should be a source of pride. It means America, with its wealth, rule of law and the sanctity of contracts, inspires foreigners to hold large amounts of their wealth in U.S. obligations. Their willingness to do so means something else: Trade increases competition. Ultimately it's competition, many producers competing for his dollar, that truly protects the consumer. Producers are protected, at the expense of consumers, by restrictions on competition. The quest to restrict competition is what lies at the heart of the trade deficit demagoguery. When's the last time you heard a consumer complaining about his buying more from a Chinese or Japanese producer than that producer buys from him?

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:00:55 AM EDT
I only caught the last half or so of the speech, and I didn't think he came across as desperate. He had a new tone and touched on things like acknowledging his haters and critics of the Iraq war. But that may be in response to a dumb new meme the press has started about how Bush is in a "bubble" and shielded from reality by his handlers because of course, Bush is incapable of thinking for himself.

For some reason, the press has a deep-seated need for Bush to admit he is wrong and has made mistakes about, well, everything, and that he should apologize and completely stop everything he's doing, maybe hand over everything to the Democrats and resign in disgrace. I get the feeling they honestly expect that from him.

I think Bush is meeting them halfway, but letting them know he absolutely thinks he's doing the right thing and he isn't going to back down simply because some people disagree. If they want something different to be done, well, that's what elections are for. But again, I haven't heard the whole speech (sound is out on my computer).
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:01:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:
Better step on it because when his Presidency is over so is this country's committment to Iraq



Yup I feel this too..
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:02:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:14:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
i guess i saw the speech a bit differently.

i saw it as a response to all the crap the media and democrats have been spouting since the day the war started. It was more of a pep talk to the public than a plea IMHO. He owned up to mistakes but made it known the right thing was done and WHY it was right.

frankly he should have done this long ago. now may have been to late.

yes i have held my nose at a LOT of other things he has done but i give him credit for what he said last night.



+1 I actually liked the address. Especially the part where he said that you may have disagreed about going to war, but we're there, let's finish it.

And....its easy for me to enjoy the rest of GWB's presidency. All I have to do is think..."President John Kerry"
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:16:31 AM EDT
To win most of america over he needs to bring in some hollywood writers, perhaps some of the people who write for survivor
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:17:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
To win most of america over he needs to bring in some hollywood writers, perhaps some of the people who write for survivor



It couldn't hurt
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:19:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
To win most of america over he needs to bring in some hollywood writers, perhaps some of the people who write for survivor



It couldn't hurt


Hell they seem to fool most of America into thinking a group of people are on a deserted island a few times a year.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:21:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:21:30 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
To win most of america over he needs to bring in some hollywood writers, perhaps some of the people who write for survivor



It couldn't hurt


Hell they seem to fool most of America into thinking a group of people are on a deserted island a few times a year.



I just want to hear Bush say "Tehran.....The Tribe Has Spoken"
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:21:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
To win most of america over he needs to bring in some hollywood writers, perhaps some of the people who write for survivor



"Eye of the tiger" from that Rocky movie? I love that song!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:29:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Did anyone watch Bush last night? He sounds desperate. He kept going on about how we can't leave Iraq, because the world must know America keeps its word. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that his father didn't keep his word when he told the Shiites he'd support their anti-Saddam uprising toward the end of Desert Storm. The Shiites rose up, looked for U.S. help, and it was nowhere. Then Saddam delivered the war hammer to their heads.

Bush said, "Iraq is a 'Fight for Freedom'" Do you feel real free now? I do, free to write over my future paychecks to make the minimum payments on the Chinese money we've borrowed to fund this war. Yes, China buys the bulk of U.S. bonds. China, India and JAP-an.

And in case you didn't hear, ole Cheney made a surprise visit to Iraq and took questions from troops. Even the boys on the ground, long known for supporting their leader, appear fed up with the political crap - which I guess is no suprise from no nonsense get'r'done soldiers such as ours.

FMI: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/12/18/international/i121811S43.DTL&type=printable

If we'd done Afghanistan fully and completely, and skipped Iraq, we'd still have the military resources available to fuck up Iran and/or North Korea - America's REAL threats. Yeah, we could do Iran with actual international support, too, as most of the world is now raising an eyebrow at them, so we wouldn't have to fund the whole gig ourselves. And by international support I mean countries with actual money and troops - Germany, France, etc. As opposed to Bush's interpreation of international support which means Poland sends 12 officers to train Iraqi's in exchange for U.S. trade favors and assistance.

*sip of morning coffee*

<shrug> It's Monday. For the record, I don't think we should leave Iraq, but I do question my own beliefs from time to time....

I think I'd feel better if Bush could speak better and provided more of a concrete agenda to get America out of that shithole instead of trying to surf the wave of public opinion. We started it and now must finish it.

So let's fucking finish it already. Less talk and more action...and if he's gonna talk....fine, but do a better job at it.



You dont read very much do you?

The war IS all over in Iraq except for the shouting and the need to round up and kill a few outstanding al Qaida members.

If you would bother to go check the facts on the Internet instead of sitting back and having shit spoon fed to you by the Democrats and their Media allies you would know this already.

See this is why I post those giant cut and paste threads, so may people wont even bother to click a mouse to get at the redily accessable truth.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:35:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
The war IS all over in Iraq except for the shouting and the need to round up and kill a few outstanding al Qaida members.




Yeah, we rolled into Baghdad years ago..That part of the war is over...but this "rounding up" you speak of has been going on for years now..little thing called Guerilla Warfare can turn into a real bitch sometimes
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:37:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 7:33:13 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
You dont read very much do you?

The war IS all over in Iraq except for the shouting and the need to round up and kill a few outstanding al Qaida members.

If you would bother to go check the facts on the Internet instead of sitting back and having shit spoon fed to you by the Democrats and their Media allies you would know this already.



I read, plenty. That's why I'm here. You post alot of threads about our dealings overseas, which is cool. But sometimes your take is sometimes so right it's wrong. If you can't weigh both sides to a position you'll never get anything accomplished. So open your brain a little.

Just a few thousand huh? Thanks for going over there for an insurgent head count. Those 'few thousand' are really slowing things down considerably....no?

If you're so blind as to think spoon feeding is one sided, I'm not sure you and I can ever discuss politics. This is an objective opinion, if you're gonna get all bent outta shape over my questioning the public speaking abilities and liquid agenda of our current administration, then...well I guess you'll have to suck my left republican nut.

But thanks anyway for your passionate and self-righteous contribution to my thread. Your response makes me want to go buy an 8X10 photo of George W. Bush for my mantle.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:40:11 PM EDT
Hokie- it sounds to me like you have a problem with the WAY Bush speaks. Okay, he's not the best public speaker but I'll take an ounce of his stumbling honest speech to a ton of Klinton's and others' lies any day.
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