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Posted: 12/16/2005 12:27:28 AM EDT
"Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny."- Robert A. Heinlein.


Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

the other day i was thinking about what James Madison said in the quote above, specifically the part about the enslaved press, and i realized that my view and understanding of an enslaved press was too limited. to me...enslaved press= controlled by the government, like in communist controlled countries... the press having no option but to print only what the govt allowed. i think things are different. i think the press are willing participants now.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:30:59 AM EDT
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:41:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 12:41:31 AM EDT by cnow]
everyone seems to be silent on alot of things.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:44:58 AM EDT
Add in BCRA and the govt already has the power to enslave the press if they want. Just threaten them with revokation of their 'press exemption' to keep them in line. WTF has happened to our country that we need permission from the government to even mention the names of a candidate.


This is a sad day for the freedom of speech. Who could have imagined that the same Court which, within the past four years, has sternly disapproved of restrictions upon such inconsequential forms of expression as virtual child pornography, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, 535 U. S. 234 (2002), tobacco advertising, Lorillard Tobacco Co. v. Reilly, 533 U. S. 525 (2001), dissemination of illegally intercepted communications, Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U. S. 514 (2001), and sexually explicit cable programming, United States v. Playboy Entertainment Group, Inc., 529 U. S. 803 (2000), would smile with favor upon a law that cuts to the heart of what the First Amendment is meant to protect: the right to criticize the government.


-Justice Antonin Scalia

Indeed
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:00:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



Not really. The press isn't in lockstep with the government, they are in lockstep with the enemies of our country.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:27:04 AM EDT

Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



It makes it a lot scarier.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:31:37 AM EDT
Yawn.

Back in late 2001, people were so hysterical about PATRIOT that by now we should all have been living in camps with barcodes tattooed across our foreheads.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the hype.

Vigilance is one thing. A healthy skepticism toward government is one thing.

Raging paranoia is quite another.


IBTUAOSMBTKIASALD

(In Before The Usual Accusations Of Sheepledom Made By The Know-It-All Self-Appointed Liberty Defenders)
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:54:10 AM EDT
Member
Joined :: October 2005
Post Number :: 145

Member
Joined :: September 2005
Post Number :: 474


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:14:08 AM EDT
Joined :: October 2002
Post Number :: 5590

Pale Pony, you've only been here since late '02????????


Oooooookaaaaaaayyyyyy NOOB
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:24:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cnow:
the other day i was thinking about what James Madison said in the quote above, specifically the part about the enslaved press, and i realized that my view and understanding of an enslaved press was too limited. to me...enslaved press= controlled by the government, like in communist controlled countries... the press having no option but to print only what the govt allowed. i think things are different. i think the press are willing participants now.



So your shift key apparently works...why not use it when appropriate?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:10:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By cnow:
the other day i was thinking about what James Madison said in the quote above, specifically the part about the enslaved press, and i realized that my view and understanding of an enslaved press was too limited. to me...enslaved press= controlled by the government, like in communist controlled countries... the press having no option but to print only what the govt allowed. i think things are different. i think the press are willing participants now.



So your shift key apparently works...why not use it when appropriate?





That's because the lack of capitalized letters denotes an edgy sarcasm befitting one who shirks the common rules and can lead us towards Nirvana with his iconoclastic tendencies! w00t!


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:12:23 AM EDT
The infiltration is now complete....
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:15:25 AM EDT
Shhhh ... that's supposed to be a secret!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:19:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Yawn.

Back in late 2001, people were so hysterical about PATRIOT that by now we should all have been living in camps with barcodes tattooed across our foreheads.




WTF, are some of you guys still on the outside?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:02:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



Not really. The press isn't in lockstep with the government, they are in lockstep with the enemies of our countryBoth foreign and domestic.



There fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gigmike:

Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



It makes it a lot scarier.



...still waiting for someone to point out the unconstitutional or rights violating parts of the patriot act...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:29:08 AM EDT



i love how the "well, i haven't seen the effects yet, so you are all just paraniod" crowd.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:34:46 AM EDT
Wow alot of DUers here today.
Welcome aboard,hoepfully you'll learn something about truly protecting freedom and get into guns.
PS- "LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS" is another good quote,lets just tell our enemies Foriegn and Domestic every trick we have so we can all be truly free from those evil secrets...oooh scary!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:41:34 AM EDT


And stupidity is the beginning of self-destruction.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:47:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 6:50:46 AM EDT by clement]
Was I accused of being a DUer? HA! I feel like one of the crowd now.

(nm that I just used this thread to take a shot at the BCRA, a bill which was pretty heavily voted against from the republican members of the house (41 yes vs. 176 no) (dems were 198 yes vs. 12 no))

(nm also that I was quoting scalia)
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:38:47 AM EDT
I guess the Secret Service are a bunch of tyrants
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:53:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



Not really. The press isn't in lockstep with the government, they are in lockstep with the enemies of our countryBoth foreign and domestic.



There fixed it for you.



That phrase used to only be used in conjunction with an oath to defend the Constitution....

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:43:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 9:44:07 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



No ending up dead because of vacuous clichés scares me a lot more.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:47:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



No ending up dead because of vacuous clichés scares me a lot more.



Here's another one for you then.

"Those who would give up essential liberties for a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:57:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



No ending up dead because of vacuous clichés scares me a lot more.



Here's another one for you then.

"Those who would give up essential liberties for a little security will deserve neither and lose both."



Here's another one for you then.

The dead don't have liberty.

Mike 12/17/2005 1:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:09:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



No ending up dead because of vacuous clichés scares me a lot more.



Here's another one for you then.

"Those who would give up essential liberties for a little security will deserve neither and lose both."



Here's another one for you then.

The dead don't have liberty.

Mike 12/17/2005 1:57 AM EST



I'm sure you'll be happy to turn in your guns to "Federal Authorities" after they ban private ownership of arms for your own protection. Maybe you'll feel safer knowing that the terrorists can't have guns because the government took all the guns away.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:14:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I'm sure you'll be happy to turn in your guns to "Federal Authorities" after they ban private ownership of arms for your own protection. Maybe you'll feel safer knowing that the terrorists can't have guns because the government took all the guns away.



Well gee isn’t that really uncreative and very cliché strawman.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:20:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clement:
Add in BCRA and the govt already has the power to enslave the press if they want. Just threaten them with revokation of their 'press exemption' to keep them in line. WTF has happened to our country that we need permission from the government to even mention the names of a candidate.


This is a sad day for the freedom of speech. Who could have imagined that the same Court which, within the past four years, has sternly disapproved of restrictions upon such inconsequential forms of expression as virtual child pornography, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, 535 U. S. 234 (2002), tobacco advertising, Lorillard Tobacco Co. v. Reilly, 533 U. S. 525 (2001), dissemination of illegally intercepted communications, Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U. S. 514 (2001), and sexually explicit cable programming, United States v. Playboy Entertainment Group, Inc., 529 U. S. 803 (2000), would smile with favor upon a law that cuts to the heart of what the First Amendment is meant to protect: the right to criticize the government.


-Justice Antonin Scalia

Indeed



Scalia nailed that one,

Sen. Mitch McConnell & Judge Ken Starr should have prevailed in that case !
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:49:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I'm sure you'll be happy to turn in your guns to "Federal Authorities" after they ban private ownership of arms for your own protection. Maybe you'll feel safer knowing that the terrorists can't have guns because the government took all the guns away.



Well gee isn’t that really uncreative and very cliché strawman.



So you don't see the similarities?

Btw, the grammar Nazis are going to rip you a new one.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:12:48 AM EDT
Isn't that a funny thing?

All this talk about the patriot act and NSA snooping around has got some people's tin foil hats tightening up their scalps...

When the American government breaks the law, tortures, and conducts shady operations hidden away from any external monitoring... it's always to protect the American way of life! The American government is filled with Americans, and Americans NEVER do anything to harm other Americans! That's why we voted them into government with our highly effective electoral system. We can trust our government to do whatever evil means nessecary to protect ourselves. If you don't beleive that, you are a pinko communist traitor. I feel safe with my M4gery and false sense of security it provides, the 2nd ammendment is all the protection I need from my government... stupid civil liberty unions don't do anything, go ban easter or something!

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:11:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Isn't that a funny thing?

All this talk about the patriot act and NSA snooping around has got some people's tin foil hats tightening up their scalps...

When the American government breaks the law, tortures, and conducts shady operations hidden away from any external monitoring... it's always to protect the American way of life! The American government is filled with Americans, and Americans NEVER do anything to harm other Americans! That's why we voted them into government with our highly effective electoral system. We can trust our government to do whatever evil means nessecary to protect ourselves. If you don't beleive that, you are a pinko communist traitor. I feel safe with my M4gery and false sense of security it provides, the 2nd ammendment is all the protection I need from my government... stupid civil liberty unions don't do anything, go ban easter or something!




I mean really. When has the Federal Government EVER abused power?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:30:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Kind of makes parts of the patriot act seem a little scarier, doesn't it?



No ending up dead because of vacuous clichés scares me a lot more.



Here's another one for you then.

"Those who would give up essential liberties for a little security will deserve neither and lose both."



Here's another one for you then.

The dead don't have liberty.

Mike 12/17/2005 1:57 AM EST

give me liberty, or give me death.


sorry, couldnt resist.
in my original post, i was commenting on the media as a whole, with the exception of maybe a couple individuals. i find the lack of coverage of able danger and the fires in france interesting. also i think it is interesting that our borders arent being secured as they need to be, letting illegal aliens enter, yet at the same time our govt is trying to increase its legal power to spy on us, the CITIZENS that put them in office. do you see the contrast? taking measures to monitor citizens while ignoring illegal foreigners and their entry into this country, in my estimation, is outrageous and shows a blatant disregard for our best interest in this matter. uh, i got off track. i just find it interesting that media voices from both sides give their parties passes alot of the times. and alot of the times the media is just plain silent.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:31:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 11:32:27 PM EDT by cnow]
oops.
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