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Posted: 12/13/2005 6:53:16 PM EDT
I drove 18 laps at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on Friday during the Richard Petty Driving Experience "Kings Experience."

Never been a Nascar fan, just was visiting Vegas and thought that it might be fun to drive a stock car.

1st lap was 51.22 sec, avg 105.42 mph. top speed 120.

Last Lap was 44.40, avg 121.61 mph, top speed 137.

I've been 120+ on the freeway before, but this was different. 3-5 car lengths behind the "instructors" car at 120-137 mph brings a whole new meaning to tailgaiting for me. I now have some sort of feeling for what racers must feel when they are 180 mph bumper to bumper with 40 other cars.

It's more than floor it and turn left, then left, then left.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:04:43 PM EDT
I did basically the same exact thing at Dover Downs a few years back and I agree with you. Anyone who has any doubts about how hard it must actually be to drive a 2 hour race with 40 other cars in an oval without wrecking really should try this. You'll see things in awhole new light.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:09:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:09:55 PM EDT by MillerSHO]

Originally Posted By OSUBeaver:
I drove 18 laps at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on Friday during the Richard Petty Driving Experience "Kings Experience."

Never been a Nascar fan, just was visiting Vegas and thought that it might be fun to drive a stock car.

1st lap was 51.22 sec, avg 105.42 mph. top speed 120.

Last Lap was 44.40, avg 121.61 mph, top speed 137.

I've been 120+ on the freeway before, but this was different. 3-5 car lengths behind the "instructors" car at 120-137 mph brings a whole new meaning to tailgaiting for me. I now have some sort of feeling for what racers must feel when they are 180 mph bumper to bumper with 40 other cars.

It's more than floor it and turn left, then left, then left.




Of course it is.

But imagine what you said then add, floor it, turn left, wait late apex turn, take it wide and come in, watch out someone's trying to undercut you, keep your angle you'll power out on him on the straights.

Nascar has it's place, but I like real tracks.
I just wish everyone did so it was more popular and generated more money.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:35:03 AM EDT
I'll give any man who makes his living at big speed his due, but none of the 4 wheeled sports has anything on a motorcycle racer. They have it harder in terms of physical and mental load, price for mistakes is higher, and the racing is a shitload more competitive than car racing.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:45:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OSUBeaver:
I drove 18 laps at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on Friday during the Richard Petty Driving Experience "Kings Experience."

Never been a Nascar fan, just was visiting Vegas and thought that it might be fun to drive a stock car.

1st lap was 51.22 sec, avg 105.42 mph. top speed 120.

Last Lap was 44.40, avg 121.61 mph, top speed 137.

I've been 120+ on the freeway before, but this was different. 3-5 car lengths behind the "instructors" car at 120-137 mph brings a whole new meaning to tailgaiting for me. I now have some sort of feeling for what racers must feel when they are 180 mph bumper to bumper with 40 other cars.

It's more than floor it and turn left, then left, then left.




If you didn't get to turn that tiller wheel to the right in anger, then you wern't driving a race car. REAL race cars negotiate tracks that have left AND right turns.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:46:45 AM EDT
Go carts at 50-60mph with your ass 3-4 inches off the ground have a way of feeling very similar.

And to think, racing carts go 2 times faster.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:48:32 AM EDT
My friend did the Richard Petty thing and said it sucked. The pace car didn't speed up much at all.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:48:53 AM EDT
Hardest race car to drive I ever did was a mini sprint. Did 15 laps and I though my arms were going to fall off from constantly holding the wheel while drifting through left hand turns. It's a lot harder than I thoght it would be.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:49:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 3:57:11 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
LOL. I should have known anyone mentioning NASCAR would in short order draw a response from the "real racer" crowd.

The "real racers" are just pissed NASCAR races draw in 150,000 people and get wall to wall tv coverage while their "real races" draw in about 150 people who come out to see their ricers with 4 bangers and occasionally get aired a week or two later at 3 am on ESPN 2.

OK, after some good natured ribbing of my road racing buddies, would you care to give me a ballpark figure of what attending one of these things cost? I might just give one a try sometime.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:57:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:03:24 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
LOL. I should have known anyone mentioning NASCAR would in short order draw a response from the "real racer" crowd.

The "real racers" are just pissed NASCAR races draw in 150,000 people and get wall to wall tv coverage while their "real races" draw in about 150 people who come out to see their ricers with 4 bangers and occasionally get aired a week or two later at 3 am on ESPN 2.



NASCAR is the WWE/WWF of auto racing. I wouldn't be surprised if the crowds at WWE/WWF were the same crowds at NASCAR... I have nothing against NASCAR but it's not real road racing. The celebrities of NASCAR hire racers when it comes to Sears Point / Watkins Glen which are about as close to rally / road racing in NASCAR as you can get. I recall the richer teams hired experienced road racers to drive the Winston cup cars through the road courses.

Now when you watch WRC, the crowds are smaller because you have so many different crowds at different checkpoints. Rally racing in the snow, desert, mud, gravel, and tarmac is a lot more exciting than running loops on nice paved roads. The Europeans must be putting some crazy shit into the water for them to race like that on ice and snow! yes they have 4-banger engines but they make more power than Mustang GTs, have AWD, and have 2 people in each car. When their cars flip over, the crowd flips it right side up and they keep on trucking. No doors? Not a problem, keep racing. Shocks flew out of the car? Duct tape and bungee cord it - keep on racing. Drove off a cliff? Are you alive and is the car driveable? If so, keep on trucking.

In NASCAR, they take a time out when it rains... At least in F1/Indy they swap to rain tires.
In NASCAR, celebrities cause accidents on purpose to win spots before the yellow flag is out.

If you ask the racers and mechanics what they feel about the Nextel cup cars, they'll tell you it is an antiquated dinosaur of a race car. It's kept cheap to keep the racing cheap.

F1/WRC/LeMans involves some high end equipment and telemetry - like electromechanical valves (solenoid actuated engine valves), independent rear suspension, AWD, fuel injection, headlamps and fog/driving lamps, turbine superchargers, etc...

I have nothing against WWE either - I watch Friday Smackdown

Those are just my opinions on auto racing, it doesn't mean I don't sometimes sit down with a beer on a Sunday to watch NASCAR though.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:59:35 AM EDT
like all sports watching it and playing it are two totaly different things.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:01:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 7:28:08 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By luger355:
like all sports watching it and playing it are two totaly different things.



+1

I prefer to participate. I cannot stand watching races. Even at the drag strip I concentrate on my car at the race. When I'm doing with my 1/4 passes (ETA: was thinking of dyno PULLS when I was typing this), I take a nap or leave for home. I don't stand around watching other cars unless they're my buddies or its a really wild setup. Everyone in MI has a 8-9 second race car so it gets dull.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:12:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:15:11 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
LOL. I should have known anyone mentioning NASCAR would in short order draw a response from the "real racer" crowd.

The "real racers" are just pissed NASCAR races draw in 150,000 people and get wall to wall tv coverage while their "real races" draw in about 150 people who come out to see their ricers with 4 bangers and occasionally get aired a week or two later at 3 am on ESPN 2.



NASCAR is the WWE/WWF of auto racing. I wouldn't be surprised if the crowds at WWE/WWF were the same crowds at NASCAR... I have nothing against NASCAR but it's not real road racing. The celebrities of NASCAR hire racers when it comes to Sears Point / Watkins Glen which are about as close to rally / road racing in NASCAR as you can get. I recall the richer teams hired experienced road racers to drive the Winston cup cars through the road courses.

Now when you watch WRC, the crowds are smaller because you have so many different crowds at different checkpoints. Rally racing in the snow, desert, mud, gravel, and tarmac is a lot more exciting than running loops on nice paved roads. The Europeans must be putting some crazy shit into the water for them to race like that on ice and snow! yes they have 4-banger engines but they make more power than Mustang GTs, have AWD, and have 2 people in each car. When their cars flip over, the crowd flips it right side up and they keep on trucking. No doors? Not a problem, keep racing. Shocks flew out of the car? Duct tape and bungee cord it - keep on racing. Drove off a cliff? Are you alive and is the car driveable? If so, keep on trucking.



All of that may be true, but it still doesn't interest me. If a car doesn't have a V-8 engine, produce 800 horsepower and hit top speeds of 190 mph, to me it ain't racing, it's just pretending to be racing. SCCA events I can at least understand, because they meet most of those qualifications. But I could just never understand why rally racing appeals to so many. Hell, any of us could jump in a little Japanese import and blast down a country backroad at speed (if you could call it that) and experience rally racing. It just doesn't seem to have as much appeal or the same element of excitement as NASCAR because it just seems like something anyone could do at anytime in almost any kind of car. In other words, rally to me is the shooting equivalent of a 10/22 carbine match at 50 yards whereas NASCAR seems more like a high power rifle match at 1000 yds using an accurized M-14.

Ah well, I guess it's whatever appeals to the individual in the end. But far more important to me than whether it turns right or left is what's actually doing the turning. Having a 40 car draft of Cup cars move past you in two seconds at 190 mph (with that distinctive earth shaking roar) just creates the type of instant excitement within me that a lone 4 banger going past you at 85 mph just can't equal, at least to me.

Oh, one other thing, my second favorite form of racing doesn't even involve making turns (unless something goes horribly wrong). I love drag racing too! Now that is some serious horsepower. It's amazing to see a top fuel dragster or funny car launch and cover the 1/4 mile in sub 5 second times. It takes your breath away. Of course I love the doorbangers also, with Pro Stock being one of my favorite classes.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:22:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:23:46 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
LOL. I should have known anyone mentioning NASCAR would in short order draw a response from the "real racer" crowd.

The "real racers" are just pissed NASCAR races draw in 150,000 people and get wall to wall tv coverage while their "real races" draw in about 150 people who come out to see their ricers with 4 bangers and occasionally get aired a week or two later at 3 am on ESPN 2.



NASCAR is the WWE/WWF of auto racing. I wouldn't be surprised if the crowds at WWE/WWF were the same crowds at NASCAR... I have nothing against NASCAR but it's not real road racing. The celebrities of NASCAR hire racers when it comes to Sears Point / Watkins Glen which are about as close to rally / road racing in NASCAR as you can get. I recall the richer teams hired experienced road racers to drive the Winston cup cars through the road courses.

Now when you watch WRC, the crowds are smaller because you have so many different crowds at different checkpoints. Rally racing in the snow, desert, mud, gravel, and tarmac is a lot more exciting than running loops on nice paved roads. The Europeans must be putting some crazy shit into the water for them to race like that on ice and snow! yes they have 4-banger engines but they make more power than Mustang GTs, have AWD, and have 2 people in each car. When their cars flip over, the crowd flips it right side up and they keep on trucking. No doors? Not a problem, keep racing. Shocks flew out of the car? Duct tape and bungee cord it - keep on racing. Drove off a cliff? Are you alive and is the car driveable? If so, keep on trucking.



All of that may be true, but it still doesn't interest me. If a car doesn't have a V-8 engine, produce 800 horsepower and hit top speeds of 190 mph, to me it ain't racing, it's just pretending to be racing. SCCA events I can at least understand, because they meet most of those qualifications. But I could just never understand why rally racing appeals to so many. Hell, any of us could jump in a little Japanese import and blast down a country backroad at speed (if you could call it that) and experience rally racing. It just doesn't seem to have as much appeal or the same element of excitement as NASCAR because it just seems like something anyone could do at anytime in almost any kind of car. In other words, rally to me is the shooting equivalent of a 10/22 carbine match at 50 yards whereas NASCAR seems more like a high power rifle match at 1000 yds using an accurized M-14.

Ah well, I guess it's whatever appeals to the individual in the end. But far more important to me than whether it turns right or left is what's actually doing the turning. Having a 40 car draft of Cup cars move past you in two seconds at 190 mph (with that distinctive earth shaking roar) just creates the type of instant excitement within me that a lone 4 banger going past you at 85 mph just can't equal, at least to me.

Oh, one other thing, my second favorite form of racing doesn't even involve making turns (unless something goes horribly wrong). I love drag racing too! Now that is some serious horsepower. It's amazing to see a top fuel dragster or funny car launch and cover the 1/4 mile in sub 5 second times. It takes your breath away. Of course I love the doorbangers also, with Pro Stock being one of my favorite classes.



I agree - there are different types of racing and its appreciated by many.

I've raced against several sub-10 second cars on the 1/4 and they're fast... fast like rockets taking off before my car even makes it to 2nd gear.

NASCAR: 357 CID V8s making 800 hp, with restrictor plates to prevent the cars from driving too fast. Out-dated chassis and drivetrain, about as complex as a 1960 Ford/Chevy/Dodge. The cars are so alike that it's no longer exciting - and far from stock. The Ford Fusion isn't anything close to the Fusion you buy (the stock car part of NASCAR no longer exists).

Rally Racing isn't as high speed but try rally racing in a Nextel cup car, you won't get far. Poor handling, poor traction (800 hp w/ RWD is not a good idea in mud/ice/snow).

LeMans has some wild cars with 3 or so different classes racing at the same time (Porsches are like in the slowest class and the prototypes flash their high beams to pass) - that's different as well. When can you see OHV V8s in the same class as OHC V12s or camless V12s?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:25:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:33:00 AM EDT by DavidC]
You need to run a road course like the one they set up at Gateway in St. Louis; it uses one of the high bank curves so you get the opportunity to drives the twisties and take on the wall. I've run at a lot of tracks , from Sears Point to Watkins Glen, and I've put the car in the dirt more than once, but the only time I've ever said to myself "Oh Shit" was on the high bank at Gateway.

It was the first time I had ever run on a banked oval, and it had taken me quite a few laps to really get a feel for the physics of driving the steeply banked turns, especially when since when standing on the infield you can see the skid marks where other cars have gone straight into the wall at the tiop of the turn.

After my first 20 minute session on the track I felt a lot more comfortable running, so I decided to let it hang out a bit more during the second session. I came into the turn about the middle of the track at ~135 MPH, planning on taking it easy through the turn and powering through the end of it for the long straight before the turn onto the inner road course.

Unfortunately, a somewhat less experienced driver in front of me had a panic attack and decided to try braking in the middle of the turn. That's the banked oval equivalent of putting three rounds in your revolver, spinning the cylinder, pointing it at your head, and pulling the trigger. When you hit the brakes, the back end of the car starts to come around and you are going to spin into the wall.

My only way out is to go under him; fortunately, I was in the right gear to keep my car in the sweet spoot of the power band, rather than loafing through the turn, but it meant I had to do something I was really uncomfortable with at that speed.

To move down the track on a banked oval you have to point the car at the wall and accelerate; the harder you push, the quicker you drop down the track. If you get off of the throttle, the car drifts up the track as you slow. My car was on Kumho V700 race tires, not full slicks, and I didn't know if the tires could handle the power in the turn, but I didn't really have a choice; I accelerated hard and managed to get underneath the idiot in front of me. I was clocked at just under 190 coming out of the turn onto the straight.

This all happened in just a few seconds, but I was so drained by the experience, I took the turn into the pits and sat out the rest of the session, torn between going back out for a few leisurely laps or waiting for the idiot who had braked in the turn and beating the crap out of him. His car had slowed enough so he stopped just as he touched the wall in the turn, and he wasn't hit by anyone, so he followed me into the pits a few minutes later.

The experience gave me a lot more respect for the NASCAR driver; it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:26:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'll give any man who makes his living at big speed his due, but none of the 4 wheeled sports has anything on a motorcycle racer. They have it harder in terms of physical and mental load, price for mistakes is higher, and the racing is a shitload more competitive than car racing.


+1.

I was in the best shape of my life when I was racing hare scrambles (combination of moto-x and enduro). It's kinda like riding a bull and holding onto its horns for two straight hours.

Going 20-40mph through the worst terrain you can think off.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:29:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidC:
The experience gave me a lot more respect for the NASCAR driver; it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks.



+1 but that goes for all types of auto racing.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:47:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidC:

The experience gave me a lot more respect for the NASCAR driver; it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks.



All forms of racing are harder than it looks. Especially when most only see it on TV, without the noise, heat, smells, and off camera drama that occurs every lap for some competitor.

I still consider myself to be a NASCAR fan, but it has faded a lot over the years.

The original draw of NASCAR was that it was "stock" car racing. I remember on Speed they showed some footage of qualifying for the 1960 Daytona race. They showed some guy wrenching on his Impala with its Carter AFB carb (that it probably came with, only now it was modded), iron intake, stock valve covers, etc.

See, back then it was about the cars. The cars they raced, you could own too. Even as they became further from the factory cars in the late 60s to early 70s, you could still buy a real street version of just about anything run by NASCAR.

You bet there were stars as well, but they raced to sell cars for the manufacturers, not to sell Viagra or Tide detergent. That came later.

Now it's all about the drivers - 24/7. NASCAR marketing has done well - they created a TV friendly format of racing in a nice neat package for viewer consumption. Other forms of racing, while great fun and entertainment, just don't fit into a neat 3-4 hour package (think rallye, drag racing, 24 hour races, etc.).

The cars are as close to their street counterparts as a Sopwith Camel is to an F-22. And worse yet, the bodies are all the same basic shape with decal packages to make them look like a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. This emphasizes the engines a little, but really is a push to make the driver the focus of the sport. To me this whole idea is disingenuous, but if they had to run the cars as they come from the manufacturer, it would probably be the end.

As it is, there is so much NASCAR related stuff on TV that it is sure to burn people out sooner or later.

While I appreciate the big-money racing and R&D programs, my favorites are definitely the sportsman racing - whatever format it is.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:53:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By OSUBeaver:
I drove 18 laps at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on Friday during the Richard Petty Driving Experience "Kings Experience."

Never been a Nascar fan, just was visiting Vegas and thought that it might be fun to drive a stock car.

1st lap was 51.22 sec, avg 105.42 mph. top speed 120.

Last Lap was 44.40, avg 121.61 mph, top speed 137.

I've been 120+ on the freeway before, but this was different. 3-5 car lengths behind the "instructors" car at 120-137 mph brings a whole new meaning to tailgaiting for me. I now have some sort of feeling for what racers must feel when they are 180 mph bumper to bumper with 40 other cars.

It's more than floor it and turn left, then left, then left.




Of course it is.

But imagine what you said then add, floor it, turn left, wait late apex turn, take it wide and come in, watch out someone's trying to undercut you, keep your angle you'll power out on him on the straights.

Nascar has it's place, but I like real tracks.
I just wish everyone did so it was more popular and generated more money.


F1 and Rally
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:56:15 AM EDT
All NASCAR needs is a theme song/music for the introduction of each racer, along with some "street" brawls to determine outcomes for accidents.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:59:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:06:30 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By luger355:
like all sports watching it and playing it are two totaly different things.



+1

I prefer to participate. I cannot stand watching races. Even at the drag strip I concentrate on my car at the race. When I'm doing with my 1/4 pulls, I take a nap or leave for home. I don't stand around watching other cars unless they're my buddies or its a really wild setup. Everyone in MI has a 8-9 second race car so it gets dull.






Everybody around here has one too, until they actually race it. Most 8-9 second cars I've ever seen on the street were actually mid 13 second cars at the track.


Since when is a "pass" (or "run") called a "1/4 pull"?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:04:14 AM EDT
while the car stuff is fun, motorcycle track days are better and cheaper. get a sportbike, a full suit, helmet, gloves, boots and take some classes that allow you to ride around the track at whatever speed you care to attempt.

i did road atlanta on several sport bikes over the years before they filled in gravity cavity at the end of the +1 mile back straight.

the car thing may be interesting, but leaned over with your knee dragging at 130 is a whole different story..

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:06:44 AM EDT
Face it NASCAR is the leader in motorsports and the F1 crowd just can't stand it. I tried to watch some F1 races and just could'nt get interested after watching the same driver and team win week in and week out. F1 is nothing more than a "who's got the most money" wins.
NASCAR is more equal in it's competitiveness.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:06:57 AM EDT
I could never get the attraction of watching someone drive around a circle (or hairpin, dirt road, mud track, whatever).

But driving one? Id be interested. I dont watch football or baseball either, but If a pickup game comes up, Im there.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:09:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:10:27 AM EDT by CTKurt]

Originally Posted By unclez:
Face it NASCAR is the leader in motorsports and the F1 crowd just can't stand it. I tried to watch some F1 races and just could'nt get interested after watching the same driver and team win week in and week out. F1 is nothing more than a "who's got the most money" wins.
NASCAR is more equal in it's competitiveness.


Yeee hawwwww. Git er dunnnn...

j/k i like nascar too
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:13:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
LOL. I should have known anyone mentioning NASCAR would in short order draw a response from the "real racer" crowd...OK, after some good natured ribbing of my road racing buddies, would you care to give me a ballpark figure of what attending one of these things cost? I might just give one a try sometime.



Less than the cost for a NASCRAP ticket, I can guarantee that. My last ticket for an entire weekend of ALMS racing was LESS than $60...And that included a garage pass for 1 day.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:16:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:20:24 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By RobarSR60:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
LOL. I should have known anyone mentioning NASCAR would in short order draw a response from the "real racer" crowd...OK, after some good natured ribbing of my road racing buddies, would you care to give me a ballpark figure of what attending one of these things cost? I might just give one a try sometime.



Less than the cost for a NASCRAP ticket, I can guarantee that. My last ticket for an entire weekend of ALMS racing was LESS than $60...And that included a garage pass for 1 day.




That's because they know that's all they can charge if they want any spectators. FWIW, I'm not a big NASCAR fan (not since they stopped using "stock cars"). Watching racing in general is boring, unless it's Top Fuel.

To me, watching shooting is boring too, with certain exceptions. For example, watching a Cowboy Action shoot might equate to NASCAR, or an IPSC match to F1 or other road racing, but Top Fuel is like going to Knob Creek.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:25:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
Watching racing in general is boring, unless it's Top Fuel.


Top Fuel is ok when they can get them down the track without blowing up or smoking the tires.
I had much rather watch the Pro Stocks.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:26:30 AM EDT
137MPH !!!???

I drove faster than that on the Autobahn for five years and there was a hell of a lot more traffic.
Didn't need no harness or helmet, neither.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:27:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By unclez:

Originally Posted By gus:
Watching racing in general is boring, unless it's Top Fuel.


Top Fuel is ok when they can get them down the track without blowing up or smoking the tires.
I had much rather watch the Pro Stocks.



Yeah, but the good news is the Pro Stocks usually run just before Top Fuel or Funny Car. It's all there in one place, and you don't have to sit there crunched in the grandstands all day.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:15:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 7:22:03 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By luger355:
like all sports watching it and playing it are two totaly different things.



+1

I prefer to participate. I cannot stand watching races. Even at the drag strip I concentrate on my car at the race. When I'm doing with my 1/4 pulls, I take a nap or leave for home. I don't stand around watching other cars unless they're my buddies or its a really wild setup. Everyone in MI has a 8-9 second race car so it gets dull.






Everybody around here has one too, until they actually race it. Most 8-9 second cars I've ever seen on the street were actually mid 13 second cars at the track.


Since when is a "pass" (or "run") called a "1/4 pull"?




When i say 8-9 seconds I meant 8-9 seconds. These were not streetable cars (Camaros that idle at incredibly high RPMs, where you can feel their exhaust through your closed window insulated modern car) that actually ran about 9 seconds on the 1/4. They were on trailers to/from the track. By the time I got out of 1st gear he was done with the race. Every track I've been at (Milan, Lapeer, Ubly) had at least 10-30 of these cars. It gets incredibly dull because a 14-15 second car is about the slowest car on the track. And yes, the track guy actually put me up against these beasts.

There are 5 people on my street that each have one of these hot rods. You can hear its lopey idle from 1/2 mile away.

Back in NJ, 14.00 isn't that bad, slowest is about 16-18 seconds. The cars at the track in MI are significantly faster. My car is a 14.9-15.0 00 Crown Vic.

The 13 second cars at the tracks in NJ are usually bone stock WRX STis and some mildly modified Mustang GTs / Cobras (pre-03 04). I know I ran against a stock Mach I that did about 13.9 on the 1/4 at Lapeer (which is by the infamous Pit)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:28:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By luger355:
like all sports watching it and playing it are two totaly different things.



+1

I prefer to participate. I cannot stand watching races. Even at the drag strip I concentrate on my car at the race. When I'm doing with my 1/4 pulls, I take a nap or leave for home. I don't stand around watching other cars unless they're my buddies or its a really wild setup. Everyone in MI has a 8-9 second race car so it gets dull.






Everybody around here has one too, until they actually race it. Most 8-9 second cars I've ever seen on the street were actually mid 13 second cars at the track.


Since when is a "pass" (or "run") called a "1/4 pull"?




When i say 8-9 seconds I meant 8-9 seconds. These were not streetable cars (Camaros that idle at incredibly high RPMs, where you can feel their exhaust through your closed window insulated modern car) that actually ran about 9 seconds on the 1/4. They were on trailers to/from the track. By the time I got out of 1st gear he was done with the race. Every track I've been at (Milan, Lapeer, Ubly) had at least 10-30 of these cars. It gets incredibly dull because a 14-15 second car is about the slowest car on the track. And yes, the track guy actually put me up against these beasts.

There are 5 people on my street that each have one of these hot rods. You can hear its lopey idle from 1/2 mile away.

Back in NJ, 14.00 isn't that bad, slowest is about 16-18 seconds. The cars at the track in MI are significantly faster. My car is a 14.9-15.0 00 Crown Vic.

The 13 second cars at the tracks in NJ are usually bone stock WRX STis and some mildly modified Mustang GTs / Cobras (pre-03 04). I know I ran against a stock Mach I that did about 13.9 on the 1/4 at Lapeer (which is by the infamous Pit)




OK, that makes better sense. I got so tired after 20 years of drag racing having people always tell me about their "10 second" cars, which invariably turned out to be an `83 Camaro with a 305 in it.

Back in the day, you would have seen almost nothing BUT fast (11 seconds or quicker) cars at Englishtown or Atco, but alas, drag racing has been invaded and ruined (for me) by FWD rice burning fart boxes. I've since sold my race car and a lot of my parts (more to go!) and gotten completely out of the racing scene.

Sorry for the unwarranted BS call!!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:30:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 7:31:25 AM EDT by metroplex]
No prob gus!

I tried numerous times to race at Atco but never got the chance before I moved. I've mainly raced at Island and E-Town. There are swarms of ricer FWD NOS-burning cars now at E-Town.

Island wasn't too bad. There were some nice cars there, like a 94-96 Impala SS w/ a 6-speed. My friend's supercharged 99 Police Interceptor beat it every single time, but just barely at 14.0-14.3 in the 1/4.

I was thinking of "dyno pulls" when I wrote the 1/4 "pull", you're right, it's a "1/4 pass" LOL. I have no idea why I was thinking of dynos at the time...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:46:25 AM EDT


Originally Posted By metroplex:

I prefer to participate. I cannot stand watching races. Even at the drag strip I concentrate on my car at the race. When I'm doing with my 1/4 pulls, I take a nap or leave for home. I don't stand around watching other cars unless they're my buddies or its a really wild setup. Everyone in MI has a 8-9 second race car so it gets dull.




Local car that runs 9.8s





Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:48:19 AM EDT
Sounds like a hoot!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:16:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'll give any man who makes his living at big speed his due, but none of the 4 wheeled sports has anything on a motorcycle racer. They have it harder in terms of physical and mental load, price for mistakes is higher, and the racing is a shitload more competitive than car racing.

Dave



I've raced motorcycles (a CBR600F3). A notable racetrack I've raced on is Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin.

Driving a car is a piece of cake (ANY car), on any track.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:17:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 8:17:45 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]
I have an announcement:

Racing on an oval track is tough.

Racing on a road course is tough.

They are tough in different ways.

Any idiot can't just run up and drive NASCAR at the top level. Neither can any idiot run up and drive at top level in SCCA, F1, etc.

If you think NASCAR is easy, try flinging one of those big heavy cars around a racetrack sometime. It aint NEARLY as easy as they make it look on TV.

Neither is driving an F1 car, SCCA car....etc.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:19:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'll give any man who makes his living at big speed his due, but none of the 4 wheeled sports has anything on a motorcycle racer. They have it harder in terms of physical and mental load, price for mistakes is higher, and the racing is a shitload more competitive than car racing.

Dave



I've raced motorcycles (a CBR600F3). A notable racetrack I've raced on is Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin.

Driving a car is a piece of cake (ANY car), on any track.



Motorcycle racing IS more physically demanding, but I would hardly call piloting a racecar proficiently "a piece of cake".
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:24:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'll give any man who makes his living at big speed his due, but none of the 4 wheeled sports has anything on a motorcycle racer. They have it harder in terms of physical and mental load, price for mistakes is higher, and the racing is a shitload more competitive than car racing.

Dave



I've raced motorcycles (a CBR600F3). A notable racetrack I've raced on is Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin.

Driving a car is a piece of cake (ANY car), on any track.



Motorcycle racing IS more physically demanding, but I would hardly call piloting a racecar proficiently "a piece of cake".



I've done it but maybe its just me that gets bored with racing four wheels. Another thing I've noticed is that setup is key with the car (I can evaluate and set it up properly). Setup means money (for the right parts).

Having said that, in my experience, in a 100% race car, the driver is 30% and the car is 70%. On a motorcycle the rider is 80% and the bike is 20%. I've gotten beat by better riders who were riding half the bike I was . But I've never gotten beat by a better driver in a lesser car.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:31:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By unclez:

Originally Posted By gus:
Watching racing in general is boring, unless it's Top Fuel.


Top Fuel is ok when they can get them down the track without blowing up or smoking the tires.
I had much rather watch the Pro Stocks.



Yeah, but the good news is the Pro Stocks usually run just before Top Fuel or Funny Car. It's all there in one place, and you don't have to sit there crunched in the grandstands all day.




Man, I love the quarter-mile!!!
Of course, I live about 4 miles from Bandimere, so I suppose it's natural that I would.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:50:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By unclez:

Originally Posted By gus:
Watching racing in general is boring, unless it's Top Fuel.


Top Fuel is ok when they can get them down the track without blowing up or smoking the tires.
I had much rather watch the Pro Stocks.



Yeah, but the good news is the Pro Stocks usually run just before Top Fuel or Funny Car. It's all there in one place, and you don't have to sit there crunched in the grandstands all day.




Man, I love the quarter-mile!!!
Of course, I live about 4 miles from Bandimere, so I suppose it's natural that I would.



The1/4 mile is a rush! I've only done it on a motorcycle. I had a 2.88sec 60ft time and still managed a 12.98sec at the end (121mph terminal)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:52:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OSUBeaver:
I drove 18 laps at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on Friday during the Richard Petty Driving Experience "Kings Experience."

Never been a Nascar fan, just was visiting Vegas and thought that it might be fun to drive a stock car.

1st lap was 51.22 sec, avg 105.42 mph. top speed 120.

Last Lap was 44.40, avg 121.61 mph, top speed 137.

I've been 120+ on the freeway before, but this was different. 3-5 car lengths behind the "instructors" car at 120-137 mph brings a whole new meaning to tailgaiting for me. I now have some sort of feeling for what racers must feel when they are 180 mph bumper to bumper with 40 other cars.

It's more than floor it and turn left, then left, then left.




Having said everything I said earlier, about motorcycles and cars, I would still love to do this!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:18:11 AM EDT
Sounds like you had a blast. Kudos to you for actually going out to the track and experiencing it for yourself. I'd like to try the Richard Petty driving school some day.

If you enjoyed it so much, you ought to consider doing the Radical driving school out in Pahrump next time you're down here in the Vegas area.

And if you really want the ultimate track experience, get a motorcycle. I enjoy watching and/or participating in all forms of motorsports, everything from kart track to rally racing to formula one. But it's hard to find anything that can beat the rush of motorcycle roadracing.

Roadracing at its best:



Nothing compares to the feeling of dragging your knee and elbow at 100+ mph:



Or getting it a little bit sideways and smoking the rear tire through a corner:



Takes some serious throttle control to power a 325 lb machine out of a corner with close to 250 hp on tap:



This is me having a blast at Las Vegas Motor Speedway's Classic road course last month:



NASCAR is great, and I realize not everyone can or wants to ride a motorcycle, but motorcycle roadracing is about as good as racing gets, both to watch and to participate. Especially for those of us that can't or don't want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to break onto the NASCAR scene. Roughly speaking, a brand new 170hp 370lb race bike that will do 0-60 in about 2.8 seconds, complete the quarter mile in the mid 9's, and top out at over 190mph will cost you around $10K. As a bonus, it will be completely street legal and will average around 40 miles per gallon. Protective gear will run another $1500 and a typical track day will cost $100-$200 for registration and fuel. If you're really fast, throw in another $1000 for race tires, race license, and registration for a weekend of real racing. Before too long, if you're really good, you'll be running times that are pretty close to the middle-of-the-pack professional racer.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:10:55 PM EDT

Sounds like you had a blast. Kudos to you for actually going out to the track and experiencing it for yourself.



Thanks to those of you that get it. Sheesh you'd think half of the people in this thread would be professional racers since they are obviously so gifted. Is it like the WWE? Maybe, probably only second to monster trucks. I don't even watch NASCAR, nor will I start. That doesn't mean it isn't fun for your everyday Joe to get behind the wheel of 600hp. Whether it be in a straght line, around the block, on dirt, in mud, around a road course. Ya, somebody's neighbor's buddy's cousin has a car that races in the Xtreme Rally Drag Circle Track Enduro Big Penis 5000 Race or whatever the hell that could do 14 second laps at Talladega if he wanted but it's just too boring.

All I know is there were a couple talkers in my group that were going to set the world on fire since they had insert XXX brand sports cars and drove fast all the time. Then reality set in and the were getting the rolled up green "please put your purse down and drive" flag to indicate they needed to maintain a closer following distance if they wanted to go faster. Yes, I got the flag too during a few of my first eight laps.

BTW motorcycle racing is fun for me to watch on TV, but I'm too chicken to give up two perfectly good wheels and drag body parts on the asphault.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:16:30 PM EDT
NASCAR must be hella fun to do, but I dont like to watch it. Too boring.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:35:10 AM EDT
Don't get me wrong-I didn't mean to say that car racers have it easy.

I can't put it in words what it feels like to ride a motorcycle through a corner... You whistle in hard on the brakes, back wheel is skimming the ground as you pop a few downshifts. Set it up wide, late apex, roll in to full lean angle, the bike squirms under the load on the suspension and pavement patches, gently pick the bike up while rolling throttle open. 1/2 way up, feel that big-ass 190 section tire bite and squirm as it keeps traction. Keep feeding more throttle and and fight the urge to run wide as the bike tries to wheelie and the bars gently (or not so gently) shake in your hands.

Shake, stir, repeat.

My favorite track to do riding schools/track days is Mid-Ohio. It's really technical with a lot of run-off for safety, and a nice long, fast straight to let you catch your breath. Probably the biggest difference between NASCAR racing and other forms of road racing is that NASCAR races don't deal with elevation changes or decreasing radius and off-camber corners.

I got a chuckle about the "9 second cars in MI" remark. A coworker did the Richard Petty school as an anniversary present from his wife. He talked about going back for the advanced school and was really hyped up when he got back. The funny thing is that he already rides a bike, and for the price of his advanced driving school, he could drive the 2 wheeled street legal equivalent to work every day.

Back in 1996, I had bought a then-new SRAD GSXR750. At the AMA National Mid Ohio round that year, a local rider took the same $9,000 bike, put a pipe and shock on it, and won. He beat out Honda's Miguel Duhamel who was on an RC45 that took millions to be competitive, and the rest of the paddock. The kicker is that when he got done with the race, he could have bolted the lights and plate back on it and ridden into town for an Ice Cream. Try doing that with a Taurus.

While there aren't many 9 second cars on the road, there's a shitload of 9 second bikes that do it. The scary thing is that these bikes are TERRIBLE drag racing platforms as delivered but they still go that fast. They sit too high, wheelbase is too short, gearing is wrong, spring rates are wrong etc.


Again, I'll won't take anything away from people who race seriously, NASCAR, WRC, Pocket Bike, or Scooter racing. Motorcycling is the real deal though-accessible, affordable, much more relevant to the public than the current state of NASCAR.


Dave
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