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Posted: 12/13/2005 11:43:21 AM EDT
Which type of lock is better, combination or electronic key pad?

M4-AK
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:55:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 11:56:35 AM EDT by Gary_631]
Combination hands down.
E-locks will go bad its just a matter of time. Have you ever had a VCR last more then 10 years?

My faimly has been selling safes for over 15 years, and e-locks count for about 4% of our sales and about 90% of our lock problems. Doesn't matter if it was a S&G, LaGuard, Kaba Mas, etc.. This year we have sold 5 elocks that I can think of, out of over 400 safes. We have replaced 3 of them so far.

If the e-lock goes down, you are left with drilling the safe and a nice bill. With the combo you have some tools and tricks you can use before you have to drill(auto dialer, or the combo has just sliped a number or two).
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:07:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gary_631:
Combination hands down.
E-locks will go bad its just a matter of time. Have you ever had a VCR last more then 10 years?

My faimly has been selling safes for over 15 years, and e-locks count for about 4% of our sales and about 90% of our lock problems. Doesn't matter if it was a S&G, LaGuard, Kaba Mas, etc.. This year we have sold 5 elocks that I can think of, out of over 400 safes. We have replaced 3 of them so far.

If the e-lock goes down, you are left with drilling the safe and a nice bill. With the combo you have some tools and tricks you can use before you have to drill(auto dialer, or the combo has just sliped a number or two).




Thats what I thought. I could never trust those lousy 9volt batteries. Are all combo locks made by S&G, or do some safe makers use a different brand?

M4-AK
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:03:32 PM EDT
Most safes use S&G, you will sometimes see LaGuard, but its rare. There are a few diffrent grades of S&G locks that most gun safes use. The brand of gun safes we are selling now have a cheaper S&G on the lower end models and a better one on the higher end models. The cheaper have parts made in China and we have been havning problems with them(numbers sliping), but that is a easy fix. The last four loads we got in, havn't had a problem at all with the locks, so looks like S&G has fixed it.

LaGuard = junk.

Alot of your china mart safe locks are made by who knows from china. I've taken a e-lock apart one we got in for a gardall import model. It was a joke, all you had to do is beat the side of the safe and the lock would open. This is the same lock I"ve seen on Sentry safes.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:05:44 PM EDT
What about a Cannon safe?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:20:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gary_631:
Combination hands down.
E-locks will go bad its just a matter of time. Have you ever had a VCR last more then 10 years?

My faimly has been selling safes for over 15 years, and e-locks count for about 4% of our sales and about 90% of our lock problems. Doesn't matter if it was a S&G, LaGuard, Kaba Mas, etc.. This year we have sold 5 elocks that I can think of, out of over 400 safes. We have replaced 3 of them so far.

If the e-lock goes down, you are left with drilling the safe and a nice bill. With the combo you have some tools and tricks you can use before you have to drill(auto dialer, or the combo has just sliped a number or two).



Hmm....at least 3 locksmiths I have talked to (who were not trying to sell me anything) have told me that electronic locks are more robust than dials.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:38:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:39:26 PM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By Gary_631:
Combination hands down.
E-locks will go bad its just a matter of time. Have you ever had a VCR last more then 10 years?

My faimly has been selling safes for over 15 years, and e-locks count for about 4% of our sales and about 90% of our lock problems. Doesn't matter if it was a S&G, LaGuard, Kaba Mas, etc.. This year we have sold 5 elocks that I can think of, out of over 400 safes. We have replaced 3 of them so far.

If the e-lock goes down, you are left with drilling the safe and a nice bill. With the combo you have some tools and tricks you can use before you have to drill(auto dialer, or the combo has just sliped a number or two).



Hmm....at least 3 locksmiths I have talked to (who were not trying to sell me anything) have told me that electronic locks are more robust than dials.



I had an S&G dial lock fail. I haven't had an E-lock fail, or heard of one fail. If this is a huge issue to you, get a double door safe. LG makes a good electronic lock.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:41:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:42:22 PM EDT by Gary_631]

Originally Posted By fizassist:
Hmm....at least 3 locksmiths I have talked to (who were not trying to sell me anything) have told me that electronic locks are more robust than dials.



I just know what I work with and have seen. The S&G 6120s have been a nightmare, I've gotten so sick of replacing them. The Kaba Mas locks havn't been out for long, but they seam better then the 6120s but they still have problems. The LaGuard locks even tho they are the lowest end of the low, we have had less problems out of them. Usly on the laguard its the keypad that goes bad. I will say this much, the newer Elocks are better then the old ones, but give me a dail any day. The dail locks arn't perfect, but just have had less problems with them.

The last time S&G did a big kick with there e-locks and said the fixed all there bugs, we order over 50% of our safes in with them. This was over 5 years ago. It was like clock work, about year a 1/2 after we sold them, they started going bad. Lucky with those models you could drill in the bottom of the safe and just push the bolt up with a long metal rod and the safe was open. They have came out with a new 6120 and you can do that to open them anymore.

The elocks are more robust in how they can be used, you can change the combo very easly, you can have diffrent user codes, and they are very fast to get into a safe with.

Right now where in the wait and see on the new gen. of elocks that are coming out. The ones we replaced this year have been the S&G 6120.

The brand of gun safes we sell is switching from the Kaba Mas lock to the LaGuard b/c of the problems they have with the Kaba Mas. But like we tell people at our store, do you want a 2 year warranty(e-lock). or a lifetime(dial) on the lock?

I will get some pics of a Dial lock and a Elocks insides and post them tomarrmo. I know we have some 6120s and maybe a LaGuard.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:35:11 AM EDT
Thanks for the info. I second the question, who makes the dial on the Canons?

M4-AK
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:47:50 AM EDT
I had an electronic lock go out on my safe. It was no fun being locked out until the safe company could send a repair man out to fix the problem. If I were to buy again, I would definitely go with a mechanical lock.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:54:47 AM EDT
I have an S&G e-lock that I have had for around 5 years without any problems, other than it doesn't have much lift power. If somebody was to say....force the door shut with something pushing on it or it gets a little bit out of level so the door is pushing on the lockers, the lock won't open the bolts until you relieve the pressure.

Dan
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:57:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 5:58:17 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By wildearp:


haven't had an E-lock fail, or heard of one fail. If this is a huge issue to you, get a double door safe. L




Can you fix the other lock from the inside?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:01:23 AM EDT
To me I just don't have faith in the electronic locks. It maybe totally unfounded fear of them, but I just feel better about an all mechanical one.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:11:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 7:28:21 AM EDT by Gary_631]
Looks like the elocks are laguard, I can't tell what the dials are from there website. Only cannon safe we have on hand doesn't have a dail on it do to it going thought a fire.

*edit*
Ok got a pic of inside of 4 different locks. 3 S&G group II locks of different grades, and a S&G 6120 Elock. My camera at work sucks only 1.3MP so you can't see the detail well. For the dials it goes left to right for higher to lower grade.


This pic is a closer look inside of the 6120. Its hard to see but the little black nut on the shaft that runs the bolt up and down is what breaks on most of the locks. I've also seen the motor go bad and the chips also die.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:30:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dan12:
I have an S&G e-lock that I have had for around 5 years without any problems, other than it doesn't have much lift power. If somebody was to say....force the door shut with something pushing on it or it gets a little bit out of level so the door is pushing on the lockers, the lock won't open the bolts until you relieve the pressure.

Dan



+1 This is my only complaint about elocks. If you turn the handle before the lock retracts the latch, you jam the latch and have to re-enter the code.

Otherwise, the elock wins hands-down in my book. It's much faster and can be operated easily in total darkness.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:35:06 AM EDT
Go with the combination. I have the electronic type. If you have a fire in your house at least you can still get your guns out. My keypad would have melted off @!&*%
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:43:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:49:31 AM EDT
I prefer the combination lock myself. Just can't bring myself to trust an electronic keypad.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:50:36 AM EDT
I have a Cannon with a combination lock with the key day lock and I was told by a lock smith friend of mine that he has had more trouble calls on the electroinc ones than he has ever had on the combination ones. I have never had a problem with mine.
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