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Posted: 12/13/2005 8:45:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:48:11 AM EDT by Dance]
Some interesting snippets of manufacturing in the USA from Pat Buchanan.

Who Killed GM

Willys built the jeeps that carried Ike's armies across Europe. Ford built the Sherman tanks. Packard made the engines for JFK's PT boat and for the P-40s of Claire Chennault's Flying Tigers. Studebaker built the Weasel armored personnel carrier.

Chevrolet built the engines for the Flying Boxcar, Buick for the B-24 Liberator, Oldsmobile for the B-25 Mitchell Col. "Jimmy" Doolittle flew in his "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" raid in 1942.

Nash-Kelvinator built the Navy Corsair and Hudson the Helldiver that succeeded the Dauntless dive-bomber that sank four Japanese carriers at Midway. But no company matched the contributions to victory of General Motors, the greatest company of them all.

Now, most of those companies with the legendary names – Packard, Hudson, Studebaker, Nash, Oldsmobile – are gone. Of the "Big Three" that survive, Chrysler is German-owned, and Ford and GM are bleeding, and their debt has fallen to junk-bond status. Delphi, the auto-parts supplier for GM, just declared bankruptcy.

Thanksgiving week – its share of the U.S. market down from 46 percent, 30 years ago, to 26 percent today – GM announced the closing of nine more American plants and the dismissal of 30,000 more workers.

Many reasons are given for the decline of the U.S. auto industry. The Volkswagen "Beetle" that invaded America in the late 1950s, the Toyotas and Hondas that followed, the Korean Kias coming in today are, we are told, cheaper and more reliable, and deliver better mileage. But there is a more basic reason for America's industrial decline.

A sea change has taken place in the mindset of our elites. The economic patriotism of Hamilton and Henry Clay, of Lincoln and T.R. and, yes, of the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age, who forged America into the mightiest industrial machine the world had ever seen, is dead.

To the economic patriots of the Old Republic, trade policy was to be designed to benefit, first, the American worker. They wanted American families to have the highest standard of living on earth and U.S. industry to be superior to that of any and all nations. If this meant favoring American manufacturers with privileged access to U.S. markets and keeping foreign goods out with high tariffs, so be it.

But that Hamiltonian America-First vision that guided us for 150 years no longer informs our politics. Economic patriotism is dead.

For the Davos generation of leaders puts the Global Economy first. They are all good internationalists. If it's good for the Global Economy, it must be good for America. Theirs is a quasi-religious faith in that same free-trade ideology for which Hamilton, Clay, Lincoln and T.R. had only spitting contempt.

And like Marxists who refuse to question their dogmas, despite manifest signs of failure, our free-traders believe that everything that is happening to America has to be happening for the best.

That U.S. manufacturing that once employed a third of our labor force now employs perhaps 10 percent does not matter. That the most self-sufficient nation in history, which produced 96 percent of all that it consumed, now depends on foreigners for a fourth of its steel, half its autos and machine tools, two-thirds of its textiles and apparel, and most of its cameras, bicycles, motorcycles, shoes, televisions, videotape machines, radios, etc. does not matter.

That tens of thousands of foreign workers are brought in each year by U.S. employers to take high-tech jobs, that U.S. factories are shut down daily here while opening in China, that professional work is being outsourced to India, that we borrow $2 billion a day to finance consumption of foreign goods – none of this matters. The nation does not matter. The country does not matter. For we are all now in a Global Economy.

And so, as the jobs and skills of U.S. manufacturing workers disappear, and the taxes they pay into Social Security, Medicare, and federal and state governments fall, and the cost of their pensions is passed on to taxpayers, and the government goes deeper into debt to cover rising social costs corporations used to carry, other countries quietly observe.

Fifty years ago, a trade deficit of 6 percent of GDP, a hemorrhaging of manufacturing jobs and a growing dependence on foreign nations for the vital necessities of our national life would have been taken as signs of the decline and fall of a great nation.

Our elites tell us that we have simply not read Thomas Friedman, we do not understand that the old Hobbesian world is history, that we have entered a new era of interdependence, where democracy and free markets will flourish and usher us all into a golden age – and we Americans will lead the way.

If they are right, we are Cassandras. If they are wrong, they are fools who sold out the greatest country in all history for a mess of potage.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:49:20 AM EDT
TAg. GM built some truly crappy cars..
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:51:52 AM EDT
I like Pat for a lot of things, but I don't read him for economics.

He's also stated that free trade was the downfall of the British Empire.

The moron mismanagers, the accountants, and a corporate culture which manages to extinguish any spark of creativity and ingeniuty are what has killed GM.

We can rail against Unions as much as we want. GM still pays thier mismanagers, and even gives them bonuses, while year after year they lose market share. You'll never see them tie compensation to sales or to stock price because the mismanagers would end up having negative salaries and would have to pay GM.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:53:17 AM EDT
Unions.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:58:47 AM EDT
The American Consumer has killed American self-sufficiency, plain and simple. Even IF Amreican companies provided quality products we all wanted they would fail because we'd demand they do it at 1/3 their absolute lowest cost of production.

The American Consumer's willingness to trade his economic loyalty for cheap goods has done the damage.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:59:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:
Some interesting snippets of manufacturing in the USA from Pat Buchanan.

Who Killed GM



But that Hamiltonian America-First vision that guided us for 150 years no longer informs our politics. Economic patriotism is dead.





Economic patriotism is dead because of obscene personal income taxes. Blame taxes (40 - 50%, fed, state, local, city, gas, etc.............. it all adds up)

The 'quality' factor contributes too ...
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:02:03 AM EDT

I have owned at least one of each generation of Firebird-Trans/AM in the last 28 years.
In 2002, GM killed their F-Body line, not because it wasn’t popular, but because they damned it with faint hearted support.

I’ve watched what has happened to the performance line in GM over 3 decades and I’m here to tell you that the corporate GM honchos were/are self-defeating idiots.

It would take several pages to detail the corporate mis-steps, political infighting, resistance to change and ignorance of customer desires, and that is just in the Camaro/Firebird/Corvette lines.

My 2002 Collector Edition T/A is the last muscle car I will ever buy from GM, damn their corporate hides, I’ve finally had enough!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:03:16 AM EDT
Pat is wrong here.

Unions
Socialists
Poor Management
Lawyers
EnvironmentalistsRidiculous congressional interference


Whichever order they are taken in, they have destroyed American Manufacturing in general, not just cars.

Free trade is perfectly fine, if your hands are not tied behind your back by the above six factors. China does not have FIVE of the six. They do have socialists, but those socialists are not stupid, they see the writing on the wall.
India does not have Four to Five of the six.
Korea
Vietnam

Look at any article of clothing you own. 98-99 PERCENT of garments sold in the US come from OVERSEAS.

Where was all the bitching when those jobs left the country??????

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:03:51 AM EDT
We are not union......the company I work for has plants in Mexico........American have lost jobs to keep the Mexican plans runnning full bore..as long as "The Board " gets its money they can just fuck us Americans all they want........Patriotism has been bought out!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:05:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By imposter:
Unions.



The Unions didn't kill GM. Read my post above. Read crazyquik's post below and take your self-serving union-bashing attitude and shove it.


The moron mismanagers, the accountants, and a corporate culture which manages to extinguish any spark of creativity and ingeniuty are what has killed GM.

We can rail against Unions as much as we want. GM still pays thier mismanagers, and even gives them bonuses, while year after year they lose market share. You'll never see them tie compensation to sales or to stock price because the mismanagers would end up having negative salaries and would have to pay GM.



Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:07:35 AM EDT
Bad management / Unions / Bad cars.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:11:14 AM EDT
Pat Buchanan has NO CLUE when it comes to economics. GM has been the worst managed company in the US for the past 30 years.

Idiots in charge, not lack of patriotism, have killed GM.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:12:51 AM EDT
How in the fuck is it always the unions? Do you union bashers even know what you are talking about, or are you just repeating what you have heard? Jeezus, I am tired of all the union bashing that goes on here. Even if GM and other large corporations didn't have union labor they would still be going overseas and to Mexico because Americans demand low prices, even if it means that they are cutting their own throats.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FNBrowning:

Originally Posted By imposter:
Unions.



The Unions didn't kill GM. Read my post above. Read crazyquik's post below and take your self-serving union-bashing attitude and shove it.


The moron mismanagers, the accountants, and a corporate culture which manages to extinguish any spark of creativity and ingeniuty are what has killed GM.

We can rail against Unions as much as we want. GM still pays thier mismanagers, and even gives them bonuses, while year after year they lose market share. You'll never see them tie compensation to sales or to stock price because the mismanagers would end up having negative salaries and would have to pay GM.






Well, if that's true, then please explain how and why Toyota-----with 10 non-union manufacturing plants in the U. S. (using American workers and parts from American suppliers) is successful-----while GM is in it's death throes. Yes, of course, it's in good part product----but don't you think that unions might not at least have something to do with it?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:14:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
Pat Buchanan has NO CLUE when it comes to economics. GM has been the worst managed company in the US for the past 30 years.

Idiots in charge, not lack of patriotism, have killed GM.



+1


Piss-poor management is the biggest and most consistent problem of GM over the past several decades.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:18:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:22:30 AM EDT by AeroE]
GM built crappy cars, and if they ever quit, the word didn't get out. They failed to change quickly to compete with the Japanese. I'm still not willing to spend my money there in hopes they have improved.

Ford built some awesome vehicles in the early 90's, but I fear they have back slidden a ways recently.

And Chrysler has to forever live with the legacy of the Horizon.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:20:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FNBrowning:
I have owned at least one of each generation of Firebird-Trans/AM in the last 28 years.
In 2002, GM killed their F-Body line, not because it wasn’t popular, but because they damned it with faint hearted support.



Actually, the firebird was one of GM's slowest selling cars. Besides, the current generation corvette is very desirable and performs well. Let's not forget cars like the GTO and Impala SS, both of which either beat or come close to the performance of your car, at least in a straight line.

This whole thread is chock full of ridiculous tripe. Of course GM market share is down in an environment with more manufacturers than ever, all producing relatively competitive cars. Let's not forget that it is still the LARGEST CAR COMPANY IN THE WORLD.

The GM naysayers are stridently lamenting the 'death' of this company. Some of you guys are as bad as the people who hype stocks into wild swings, regardless of the underlying business plan of the companies involved.

Are there problems at GM? Of course, and they'd better get them fixed. I don't hear anyone complaining that Microsoft is 'dead' because their revenues are declining in some areas.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:29:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
I like Pat for a lot of things, but I don't read him for economics.

He's also stated that free trade was the downfall of the British Empire.

The moron mismanagers, the accountants, and a corporate culture which manages to extinguish any spark of creativity and ingeniuty are what has killed GM.

We can rail against Unions as much as we want. GM still pays thier mismanagers, and even gives them bonuses, while year after year they lose market share. You'll never see them tie compensation to sales or to stock price because the mismanagers would end up having negative salaries and would have to pay GM.



Management is to blame for compromising their designs by using cheap parts, skimping on important features and generally penny pinching.

But the unions are to blame(and prior management for caving to the unions) for the extra few thousand bucks per car that GM has to pay compared to what toyota or honda have to pay for healthcare and pensions. This handicap is a large part of the reason why the company has to skimp on the costs of the parts. That's $2000 or so per car that can't be put towards better materials for interiors for instance, one of the areas where american manufacturers are notably lagging. That extra cost that GM and Ford have to pay makes it much harder to compete. Now maybe the execs shouldn't get paid so much when the company is having problems, but I'm not a shareholder, so I don't get to decide.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:30:09 AM EDT
GM killed GM, there is NO excuse for a nation with the best engeneering and business schools in the world to build poor quality cars and continue to do so.
French cars we're crap till a decade ago but are pretty good now so it can be done.

I hate it when people blame the unions or the workers, this was a management problem and don't understand that the shareholders never demanded action to be taken.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:41:59 AM EDT
GM killed GM..

Years of putting out defective cars and not recalling them. Dealerships ignoring the problems since the manufacture(GM) always has a way out of coverage.

If you want coverage you have to buy extended warrantees.

For years it went along with the insurance companies and put a hold on muscle cars. Putting crappy motors in Camaro's, and Firebirds.

Remember the 305... What a dog.. Oh.. The enviromentally friendly bull of the late 70's.

Remember the Firebirds with the 250 inline six..

Oh.. Almost forgot..

I miss my Vega...

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:43:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 8mm:
Bad management / Unions / Bad cars.



Don't know about Unions, but there was bad management and bad cars. After WWII, the only game in town for US consumers was US products, and the manufacturers knew it. The engineers took a back seat to the accountants and cutting costs became the way to do it. Cheaper meant crappier. When Europe and Asia finally rebounded from the war, they began exporting cars to the US that were not all big assed gas guzzlers and pieces of crap. Detoit has been chasing them ever since, and losing. This applies not just to autos, but a lot of US manufacturing.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:48:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:
GM killed GM, there is NO excuse for a nation with the best engeneering and business schools in the world to build poor quality cars and continue to do so.
French cars we're crap till a decade ago but are pretty good now so it can be done.

I hate it when people blame the unions or the workers, this was a management problem and don't understand that the shareholders never demanded action to be taken.



The reason people blame the unions is because you can't sell a quality product at a competitive price when you have to pay $2000 a car more than your competitors for pensions and healthcare.

It's not that they can't build good cars, just not at a competitive price with a couple thousand dollar handicap.

When they focus on building a good car instead of cost, they can make some great cars, see solstice and corvette and others. Problem is, they can not make money that way.

The unions are the root problem, because they are the reason the costs are higher for GM than their competitors.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:53:53 AM EDT
tag for home
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:57:06 AM EDT
The not-quite-a-joke saying about GM is that it is not a car company, but a health insurance company and pension hedge fund that happens to also build cars.

For every full-time employee on their payroll right now, they are paying medical benefits for 4 retirees and their dependents. The unions fought for this, and managment gave it. There is plenty of blame for each group.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:07:36 AM EDT
GM killed GM.

GM builds crap as with most American auto designers. Flame away but this is fact.

Take a Civic or Tercel or whatever. Compare that to a Ford Focus or a Chevy Cavalier. Well, there is no comparison. I'll never buy anything GM, because I care about quality and can afford the extra $4K-$5K it takes to get it. Yes they sell a ton of cars. But sooner or later the American public will/have bought more Japanese vehicles because they are a BETTER CAR.

Trucks are a little different story, simply because the Japs don't produce the trucks that we Americans need. Ya can't really throw a big friggin' boat on the back of a Tundra and expect to go cross state with it, do ya? First hill and all is gone.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:14:20 AM EDT
I see. It's my patriotic duty to simply pay whatever an American firm demands for a product. In order to be helped in my duty all foreign competing products should be withheld or taxed to the same price as the American product, which of course fosters competition which we love unless it is we that are not competing well.

Got it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:14:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:15:23 AM EDT by clement]
Everyone here is dumb, money killed GM. If GM had an unlimited pool of money they wouldn't be in trouble now would they?

Try and argue with me over THAT!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:20:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
How in the fuck is it always the unions? Do you union bashers even know what you are talking about, or are you just repeating what you have heard? Jeezus, I am tired of all the union bashing that goes on here. Even if GM and other large corporations didn't have union labor they would still be going overseas and to Mexico because Americans demand low prices, even if it means that they are cutting their own throats.



I suppose you as the anti-consumer are busy finding the most expensive price you can pay so that product maker can pay all the benifits his employees may desire and researching the component makeup and origin of each and every purchase you make.

The consumer is doing exactly what it he has done since Grog offered to trade Mog some berrys for his sharp rock.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:21:48 AM EDT
So if GM were expertly managed, made in USA, exciting and innovative, fuel-efficient, non-union made and everything else, would all you guys buy it at double or triple the cost of what a GM vehicle is now?

Our companies simply cannot make products as cheaply as they can overseas (r by a foreign company who offsets USA costs with ultra-cheap costs elsewhere). And when it comes down to it Americans will take crappy and CHEAP way before paying the extra cost to buy American.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:24:47 AM EDT
I still own 2 out of the 4 toyotas I ever bought. My fifth car was a Volkswagen
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:26:38 AM EDT
GM is going down because

a) their cars suck apparantly (I've never owned one)

and more importantly:

b) US tax laws are more favorable to foreign car companies producing their cars domestically then US car companies selling US cars internationally. E.g. DaimlerChrysler based in Germany rather then ChryslerDaimler based in the US.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:28:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FNBrowning:

The Unions didn't kill GM. Read my post above. Read crazyquik's post below and take your self-serving union-bashing attitude and shove it. hr



Saying that it was NOT the UAW that was one of the major reasons for US Automotive industry trouble is like saying it is NOT the Unions who are destroying Kalifornia's and/or (mis)manage that state.

Kalifornia's recent special initiative vote should indicate who actually runs that state.

Do you actually think GM's management operated with autonomy from the UAW?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:28:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
So if GM were expertly managed, made in USA, exciting and innovative, fuel-efficient, non-union made and everything else, would all you guys buy it at double or triple the cost of what a GM vehicle is now?
.................



So all the cars that have the features above and are priced competitively with current GM products are crap (that doesn't even make sense)? They are all manufactured with child labor in asian sweat shops overseas?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:30:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
So if GM were expertly managed, made in USA, exciting and innovative, fuel-efficient, non-union made and everything else, would all you guys buy it at double or triple the cost of what a GM vehicle is now?

Our companies simply cannot make products as cheaply as they can overseas (r by a foreign company who offsets USA costs with ultra-cheap costs elsewhere). And when it comes down to it Americans will take crappy and CHEAP way before paying the extra cost to buy American.



I don't know where this is coming from. You will pay MORE for a Honda / Toyota /Subaru / Nissan than you will for an equivelent American designed/built auto. It is cheaper to buy American! Unfortunately for me.

Yes there are the KIA's and Hyandia's, but I don't consider those real players yet. Quality costs money and Amercian cars are cheap and affordable. Hmmmmm...
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:35:25 AM EDT
Another vote for unions.

They negotiated themselves into a corner.

Assembly line workers making $20-40 AN HOUR, PLUS $40 an hour in benefits!!!!!

Approx $1500 of a new car's price goes to pay for pension/health car benefits.

HMMMMMM.... GM is on the verge of collapse, but yet Toyota is EXPANDING here and is building new plants.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:37:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:38:22 AM EDT by pale_pony]
I don't know about anyone else, but the reason I will never buy another General Motors product (until they fix this little problem...) is BIG BROTHER!

Edited to add: This is now standard equipment on ALL GM MODELS
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:40:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
So if GM were expertly managed, made in USA, exciting and innovative, fuel-efficient, non-union made and everything else, would all you guys buy it at double or triple the cost of what a GM vehicle is now?
.................



So all the cars that have the features above and are priced competitively with current GM products are crap (that doesn't even make sense)? They are all manufactured with child labor in asian sweat shops overseas?



I'm saying everyone lists their reason GM is dying as if they would suddenly buy GM if that problem went away. The bottom line is if you fix all the problems the cost (already high) will do nothing but go up in comparison to foreign cars with equivalent features. And that being the case no American will pay more just to buy American.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:41:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
So if GM were expertly managed, made in USA, exciting and innovative, fuel-efficient, non-union made and everything else, would all you guys buy it at double or triple the cost of what a GM vehicle is now?

Our companies simply cannot make products as cheaply as they can overseas (r by a foreign company who offsets USA costs with ultra-cheap costs elsewhere). And when it comes down to it Americans will take crappy and CHEAP way before paying the extra cost to buy American.



A good GM car would not cost double or triple what a good honda or toyota cost though.

GM has good technology and some decent designs, they just skimp on fit and finish to compete on price. A GM up to the quality of standards of the competition wouldn't be all that much.

All that said, I would buy the cheapest thing that offers the quality and features I'm looking for. I've got better things to do with my money then spend thousands of dollars extra for the same quality but an american nameplate on a car that was made in mexico or canada, when i can keep those thousands and get a japanese nameplate that was built in america. If and when they can match the quality of the competition at the same or similar price, then I will buy one.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Don't like it's impossible for them to do it though, because it isn't, the competition IS doing it, and very successfully at that.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:42:49 AM EDT
Economic patriotism. What a laughable excuse.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:45:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brahmzy:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
So if GM were expertly managed, made in USA, exciting and innovative, fuel-efficient, non-union made and everything else, would all you guys buy it at double or triple the cost of what a GM vehicle is now?

Our companies simply cannot make products as cheaply as they can overseas (r by a foreign company who offsets USA costs with ultra-cheap costs elsewhere). And when it comes down to it Americans will take crappy and CHEAP way before paying the extra cost to buy American.



I don't know where this is coming from. You will pay MORE for a Honda / Toyota /Subaru / Nissan than you will for an equivelent American designed/built auto. It is cheaper to buy American! Unfortunately for me.

Yes there are the KIA's and Hyandia's, but I don't consider those real players yet. Quality costs money and Amercian cars are cheap and affordable. Hmmmmm...



If you found an American car with the features and reliability of those "higher priced" foreign cars, it would be double the cost. And no, I'm not talking about bullshit DVD entertainment systems for the little mushheaded kids.

I just gave my buddy a ride top pick up his Toyota pickup he had in for an oil change and checkup. 284,000 miles (hard-ass miles at that) and they said it needed a touch of transmission fluid. Meanwhile my '01 F-150 is about to shit its transmission any day and it has been babied. There are good and bad stories to all but this one says it all to me.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:57:00 AM EDT
I too used to be a big believer in the USA built vehicles, no more. Take the Honda, Toyota, and compare that to the equivlent Ford, GM, Chysler; and after 10 years and 100,000 which vehicles would be worth more. I've seen people buy Hondas with 250,000 miles on it. For a USA built car, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Basically for USA built cars, they are disposable.

John Z Delorean, the father of the Ford Mustang in the mid-60s often said that USA car companies are ruled by bean counters rather than engineers.

What's the bean counter's solution to competition, close down plants and cede market share.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:00:45 AM EDT
First off, the GM management could have told the unions to screw off. Instead, in the 50s and later the 60s when they were high on the hog and were closing in on 50% of the US market, they negotiated fat contracts with the UAW.

They were riding the gravy train untill they drowned in it.

Now the US market share is in the mid 20s.

Thier CEO made 10 million dollars last year. Their stock yeilds a 9% dividend. They might face a 5 billion dollar loss next year.

Anyone that knows jack about cars realizes GM is always a half-decade late. Pontiac Solstice would have been nice...in 1997 when the Z3 came out or 2001 or 2002 alongside the Toyota MR2 Spyder.

Gas prices are rising and they are unveiling new SUVs without diesel or hybrid technology. This is the same company that sold electric cars 15 years ago BTW. Now they are so far behind the hybrid curve they are in an informal alliance with BMW and Izuzu to leverage the collective capacity to get some stop-gap hybrid technology on the road. By the time it hits Toyota and Honda will be on thier 2nd gen though.

The Chevrolet HHR competes with the PT Cruiser...but would have been nice 7 years ago.

The SSR, what a joke. An expensive, waste of engineering talent and resources joke.

The rebirth of Cadillac has been wonderfully done. Can we say the same for the Pontiac Aztek? Everyone who signed off on that monstrosity should have been fired.

"It is a matter of record that poor styling or improperly timed styling has proved financially disastrous to some automobile manufacturers." - Harley Earl, one of the few GM execs, along with Bunkie Knudson, Ed Cole, John Delorean, etc who knew what the hell was going on.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:06:35 AM EDT
The average Toyota sells for ~3500 more than the average GM.

GM and Toyota have comparative gross margains, but there is nearly an 8% difference in thier profit margain, GM's being negative too. Negative profit margain, now there is a way to run a company! I wonder how many MBAs it took to figure that out

If they are comparative input cost, it means that Toyota gets $3500 from the consumer in good faith. They can then leverage this into all sorts of fun stuff.

GM squanders 5 years and untold hundreds of millions on the Pontiac Solstace when they could have rebadged an Opel Speedster instead.

Good thing they haven't had time to ruin Saab yet.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:06:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 11:08:14 AM EDT by MillerSHO]
Screw GM.

My friggen power window won't go up as of yesterday on an 01 Tahoe.

Peice of shit.

Tons of other issues that still are TSB's that NEED TO BE RECALL's but they won't do it.

Never again.

As a long time chevy lover I'll never one again unless it's 67-69 Camero.

Might as well buy a ford, cheaper overall cost.

Stuff breaks on chevys just as much as it does on fords.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:09:37 AM EDT
Nothing to see here folks. This is just the free market working as expected. When the U.S. economy switched from small artisans to big factories in the industrial revolution, it was the end of the world for some people. Now, as the economy is again shifting from big factories to smaller technology firms, the sky is falling again. Point is that no economy has been ruined by free trade and capitalism, though quite a few have been destroyed by the tariffs and protectionism Buchanan advocates. With the free market, there are always going to be some losers, even in the best of times. Its called creative distruction and its simply part of the process.

And it wasn't free trade that ruined the British Empire. The British simply decided that it wasn't worth it to plant their flag across the world. Despite "losing" her empire, Britian still gets everything it needs from its former colonies. The good simply go by way of muli-nationals rather than the East India Company merchantmen.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:13:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By imposter:
Unions.



+1
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:57:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:14:58 AM EDT by luger355]
piss poor MANAGEMENT killed GM.

remember boys and girls shit runs down hill not up hill
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:02:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By imposter:
Unions.



+1
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:18:00 PM EDT
I can tell you why Delphi went bankrupt, inferior QC. I got a free Bose WaveRadio because the Delco/Bose changer in my car was broken straight from the factory. It took 3 visits to a 3rd party audio shop to fix it on Chevrolet's dime, but on my time! I still have the WaveRadio.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:22:13 PM EDT
What killed GM?

The last twenty years of producing complete and utter SHIT.

That's what.

SG
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:27:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
I can tell you why Delphi went bankrupt, inferior QC. I got a free Bose WaveRadio because the Delco/Bose changer in my car was broken straight from the factory. It took 3 visits to a 3rd party audio shop to fix it on Chevrolet's dime, but on my time! I still have the WaveRadio.



I can assure you that giving away one Bose Wave radio, which costs probably $5 to produce and they sell for +$300, was not the cause of their bankruptcy.
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