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Posted: 12/11/2005 1:24:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 1:24:49 PM EDT by SS109]
Has anyone bought the new ones? Are they any good? I heard that the only way they know that they are man-made is the lack of flaws. Any good sources?

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:25:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SS109:
HAs anyone bought the new ones? Are they any good? I heard that the only way they know that they are man-made is the lack of flaws. Any good sources?

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.



They aren't as good as the natural ones. Don't shine and have the same fire. Too pure and would only be appoprtiate for industrial use.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:31:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By SS109:
HAs anyone bought the new ones? Are they any good? I heard that the only way they know that they are man-made is the lack of flaws. Any good sources?

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.



They aren't as good as the natural ones. Don't shine and have the same fire. Too pure and would only be appoprtiate for industrial use.






Why is DeBeers shaking in their boots then?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:32:46 PM EDT
They've gotten down the trace chemical impurities that give diamonds the sparkle and shine so now the industrial diamonds are just as jewlry grade as the mined ones.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:34:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By SS109:
HAs anyone bought the new ones? Are they any good? I heard that the only way they know that they are man-made is the lack of flaws. Any good sources?

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.



They aren't as good as the natural ones. Don't shine and have the same fire. Too pure and would only be appoprtiate for industrial use.






Why is DeBeers shaking in their boots then?



man-made ones would be a loose suppiment. DeBeers send majority of their diamonds to different industries as a resource. It'll hurt their supply of cheap industrial diamonds and probably woun't affect jewelry grade diamonds. Just as their is no suppliment for true gold jewelry, the same can be said for diamonds.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:38:33 PM EDT
De Beers has been lobbying the UN and many dozens of national governments to regulate the "fake" diamonds and force them to be deliberately given impurities and markers inside to make them of less beauty.


To cut down on "counterfeiting"


Yeah right. Fuck De Beers and all other monopolies.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:47:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 1:49:18 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By SS109:
HAs anyone bought the new ones? Are they any good? I heard that the only way they know that they are man-made is the lack of flaws. Any good sources?

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.



They aren't as good as the natural ones. Don't shine and have the same fire. Too pure and would only be appoprtiate for industrial use.






Why is DeBeers shaking in their boots then?



man-made ones would be a loose suppiment. DeBeers send majority of their diamonds to different industries as a resource. It'll hurt their supply of cheap industrial diamonds and probably woun't affect jewelry grade diamonds. Just as their is no suppliment for true gold jewelry, the same can be said for diamonds.



DeBeers puts most of theirs in the vault so they can control the market on a commodity that is not rare and would not be valuable if a cartel did not control the supply and hugely inflate prices.

Synthetic diamonds are very good now.

Once the cartel cracks real or otherwise most diamonds ain’t going to be worth squat.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:48:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SS109:

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.



Amen!
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:49:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Current-Resident:
De Beers has been lobbying the UN and many dozens of national governments to regulate the "fake" diamonds and force them to be deliberately given impurities and markers inside to make them of less beauty.


To cut down on "counterfeiting"


Yeah right. Fuck De Beers and all other monopolies.




Never heard this in the industry.

There are two types of synthetic diamonds:

HPHT Russian
and the other one . . . carbon gas sublimation is what it is, I don't recall the name they gave it.

The Russian process produces mostly yellow and brown stones that have a particular type of imperfection, inclusion, that is metallic from the type of flux they yse to keep the diamonds from burning.

Carbon gas sublimation uses a carbon gas and produces a base stone that is perfectly square and contains no inclusions and no color. Notable for being too perfect. Have not heard that this process is producing anything more than a few stones, though. The company that is doing this is actually working towards replacing silicon wafers for computing with diamond wafers.

You can alter a stone, using the Pegasus method, to improve its color and clarity. This is a HPHT treatment that uses large presses to compact and change the structurce of an existing diamond.

There is no viable process which can replace the real thing . . . yet. The Russian process will always have problems, because of the process. The carbon gas process will always produce absolute perfection.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:50:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:55:43 PM EDT
superman can make them by squeezing coal. saw this once on tv..
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:55:44 PM EDT
So where I buy myself some of these diamonds?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:56:20 PM EDT
Gemesis and Apollo arent idiots either. They wont flood the market and kill the goose but they do have DeBeers running scared.

DeBeers= John Bobbit

Gemesis= Lorena with a knife.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:08:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 2:09:01 PM EDT by Kharn]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Gemesis and Apollo arent idiots either. They wont flood the market and kill the goose but they do have DeBeers running scared be found in a ditch.



Fixed for ya.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:10:06 PM EDT
Excellent. I think I would pay the same price to Apollo rather than giving DeBeers one more dollar.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:11:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:19:56 PM EDT
Have any of the national chains started selling these?

I would imagine De Beers is going to do all they can to "punish" anyone they know selling the "substitutes"
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:38:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Gemesis and Apollo arent idiots either. They wont flood the market and kill the goose but they do have DeBeers running scared be found in a ditch.



Fixed for ya.

Kharn



Honestly, I was going to say that too.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:07:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Abbot_Hayes:
So where I buy myself some of these diamonds?


+1
When/where/how can I buy man made diamonds?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:11:24 PM EDT
Id still expect people to let themselves get reamed to buy a "real one" due to some BS the salesman at the stroe tells them.

"It costs more so it must be better"
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:18:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 3:20:15 PM EDT by GAcop]
This is a pretty good read.


www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html



Diamonds are really just a semi-precious stone.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By SS109:
HAs anyone bought the new ones? Are they any good? I heard that the only way they know that they are man-made is the lack of flaws. Any good sources?

I would love for the DeBeers Cartel to go down in flames.



They aren't as good as the natural ones. Don't shine and have the same fire. Too pure and would only be appoprtiate for industrial use.



You have seriously been drinking the DeBeers Kool-Aid.

Gemesis, based in Florida, can only produce colored diamonds in yellow, pink and blue. They cannot produce clear diamonds. There are ways to tell the from natural diamonds, and they can be purchased online at diamondscultured.com.

Apollo, based in Boston, produces clear diamonds. Pretty much the only way to tell from natural diamonds is that they are flawless. I don't know where they can be purchased.

Diamonds are for suckers. They are only valuable because DeBeers chokes off the worldwide supply, and they are only desired because DeBeers has women convinced that if their fiancee doesn't spend a ridiculous amount of money on a small rock, he is a cheap piece of shit.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:42:12 PM EDT
I did a search a while back, and while they are cheaper than the real thing, they were not impressivly cheaper. I could not find a place to buy direct at the time, so all you could get were sold through jewlry stores. From what I heard, they were charging double to tripple what they paid, but still made them half the price of comparable stones.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:48:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
superman can make them by squeezing coal. saw this once on tv..


In his ass cheeks
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 3:52:42 PM EDT
I went to the Apollo website and they didn't have a link to their retail partners but they let you ask for them or apply to distribute them.

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:01:17 PM EDT
Go to J C Penny's and look at the Moisenite. Very close to the diamond in hardness and it really does sparkle.

Our friend who is a jewler said that they had to get special equipment to tell the diff between the two.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:08:52 PM EDT

Diamonds are for suckers. They are only valuable because DeBeers chokes off the worldwide supply, and they are only desired because DeBeers has women convinced that if their fiancee doesn't spend a ridiculous amount of money on a small rock, he is a cheap piece of shit.
Boy, did this hit the nail on the head!
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:16:45 PM EDT
Synthetic emeralds are another stone that is beter in all aspects than the naturally occurring stones. But I think I saw on TV that they are required by law to contain a chemilcal identifier since perfect emeralds are more valuable than their clear, carbon cousins.. So I am tolfd anyway.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:23:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Originally Posted By st0newall:
Chuck Norris can make them by squeezing coal in his ass cheeks




- fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:25:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
Synthetic emeralds are another stone that is beter in all aspects than the naturally occurring stones. But I think I saw on TV that they are required by law to contain a chemilcal identifier since perfect emeralds are more valuable than their clear, carbon cousins.. So I am tolfd anyway.



I believe the owner of the process for synthetic emeralds voluntary put the identifier in because they don’t want to destroy the emerald market.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:26:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
Synthetic emeralds are another stone that is beter in all aspects than the naturally occurring stones. But I think I saw on TV that they are required by law to contain a chemilcal identifier since perfect emeralds are more valuable than their clear, carbon cousins.. So I am tolfd anyway.



I believe the owner of the process for synthetic emeralds voluntary put the identifier in because they don’t want to destroy the emerald market.



Why would they or anyone care? Sell them and be done with it? Make a killing selling perfect stones at 1/4 the price!

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:34:36 PM EDT
I recall watching a documentary on diamond production. The man made diamonds would "glow" when placed under a UV light while natural diamonds were black, or did not glow. According to this program this was the easiest way to tell between the two.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:37:35 PM EDT
Briolite Diamonds are great...here are a few tests. I read before I got a tennis bracelet for my wife...

I took my new Briolite diamond to a few jewelry stores in a mall. I went to a total of three stores. All well know chains. The first one was a very nice gentleman whom I ask what he thought the ring was worth. He ask me how much I had paid for it, and I told him that I had won it. As he was telling me he was not suppose to give out estimates, he then told me well I have one right in front of me here that is worth $3,500 and this would be several thousand dollars more than that one!! I then told him it was a Briolite diamond. His reaction was great. He asked to see it again. When he looked at it this time knowing it was a Briolite, he then said he could kind of tell because Briolite looks too perfect to be a diamond, because most commercial diamonds are dulled because of internal cracks called inclusions. He was a very nice man, and before I left, he admitted to me that he had been in the jewelry business for 52 years and it would be virtually impossible for anyone to tell the difference. He thanked me for bringing it by and giving him the opportunity to see it live in person.

Then I went to the manager of another well know store. I told her immediately that I had won this diamond. She grabbed my hand and said "You are kidding me!" Yes, I said and it's a Briolite. Her reaction was similar to the other gentleman. "May I please see it", she asked. Then she too tested it for diamond. Told me that they had not too long ago, had a meeting on this very subject. She had each of her sales reps to come and look at it. They were in awe. Then she pulled out a 8,000 dollar diamond out of her case and asked me to put in on to compare the quality. She even admitted that her expensive diamond had a inclusion in it! Told me the Briolite had a lot more brilliance to it, but yet a really expensive diamond would!! The lady also stated she had been in the business over 20 years and that it was kind of sad to see a stone that was so close to the look of a diamond. She too thanked me for bringing it in, and would hardly let me out of the store.

The next store was one that caters to the rich. When I went in I told the sales person I was looking to upgrade. She looked at my hand, and said , "Did you buy it here", I told her no, and it's a Briolite! She said, thanks for sharing, do you mind if I test it for a diamond. No, go ahead. She also told me that they did have a Briolite tester, but she did not know how to use it. After her examination of the ring, she said it is very good for a fake, and she could tell it was because it looked too perfect, and most diamonds have flaws in them.


P.S.- My wife loves her bracelet, and it looks like the finest diamonds on earth were used to make it.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:44:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
Synthetic emeralds are another stone that is beter in all aspects than the naturally occurring stones. But I think I saw on TV that they are required by law to contain a chemilcal identifier since perfect emeralds are more valuable than their clear, carbon cousins.. So I am tolfd anyway.



16 CFR § 23.23: Misuse of the words “ruby,” “sapphire,” “emerald,” “topaz,” “stone,” “birthstone,” “gemstone,” etc.

(a) It is unfair or deceptive to use the unqualified words “ruby,” “sapphire,” “emerald,” “topaz,” or the name of any other precious or semi-precious stone to describe any product that is not in fact a natural stone of the type described.

(b) It is unfair or deceptive to use the word “ruby,” “sapphire,” “emerald,” “topaz,” or the name of any other precious or semi-precious stone, or the word “stone,” “birthstone,” “gemstone,” or similar term to describe a laboratory-grown, laboratory-created, [manufacturer name]-created, synthetic, imitation, or simulated stone, unless such word or name is immediately preceded with equal conspicuousness by the word “laboratory-grown,” “laboratory-created,” “[manufacturer name]-created,” “synthetic,” or by the word “imitation” or “simulated,” so as to disclose clearly the nature of the product and the fact it is not a natural gemstone.

Note to paragraph (h): The use of the word “faux” to describe a laboratory-created or imitation stone is not an adequate disclosure that the stone is not natural.

(c) It is unfair or deceptive to use the word “laboratory-grown,” “laboratory-created,” “[manufacturer name]-created,” or “synthetic” with the name of any natural stone to describe any industry product unless such industry product has essentially the same optical, physical, and chemical properties as the stone named.

16 CFR § 23.24 Misuse of the words “real,” “genuine,” “natural,” “precious,” etc.

It is unfair or deceptive to use the word “real,” “genuine,” “natural,” “precious,” “semi-precious,” or similar terms to describe any industry product that is manufactured or produced artificially.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:49:11 PM EDT
DeBeers will probably brand them to maintain their worth, and pay lobbyists that demand man-made stones can not be called Diamonds, just like non-French sparkling wine is allowed to be called Champagne.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:50:44 PM EDT
So what, do you know that there are "cultured" pearls, and natural pearls? I saw necklace a string of natural 6mm salt water pearls at Cariers in Beverly Hills Calif, they wanted $40,000. The same string would cost about $1,000 if it were "cultured." So DeBeers should be really concerned, their stash of diamonds could be worth a whole lot less.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:03:28 PM EDT
I'd love a manufactured diamond the size of my fist if it were affordable. I think diamonds are beautiful.

If not for anything else, I kinda buy into the whole DeBeers conspiracy theory and I would love to see them taken down.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:17:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 5:18:40 PM EDT by MrsGloftoe]
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:25:53 PM EDT
Maybe this will also cut down on the annoying monotone Shane company adds on the radio.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:36:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WX:
Go to J C Penny's and look at the Moisenite.



Exactly what I was going to say.

But I think diamonds are stupid.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:43:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:

Originally Posted By WX:
Go to J C Penny's and look at the Moisenite.



Exactly what I was going to say.

But I think diamonds are stupid.



I saw some Moissanite rings at JC Penney the other day. I sure as hell couldn't tell the difference between them and diamond.

To compare:

3-stone 2 tcw Diamond ring: $3300

3-stone 2.15 tcw Moissanite ring: $1750
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:

Originally Posted By WX:
Go to J C Penny's and look at the Moisenite.



Exactly what I was going to say.

But I think diamonds are stupid.



I saw some Moissanite rings at JC Penney the other day. I sure as hell couldn't tell the difference between them and diamond.

To compare:

3-stone 2 tcw Diamond ring: $3300

3-stone 2.15 tcw Moissanite ring: $1750




And I can still put together a real diamond ring at the price and sell it to you cheaper. At $1,750 it's not any great savings. You're basically getting a fake Diamond for the price of a genuine wholesale diamond. No big deal.

That said, I'd love to see the Diamond market crash. It would drive the market on my genuinely rare stones through the roof.

But in the end, it's just not going to happen. DeBeers will do the same thing they did with the Arkansas Diamond mine. Buy it and then shut it down. Anybody who thinks DeBeers worries about jack or shit needs their head checked.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:53:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:06:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:33:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 7:33:39 PM EDT by Nimrod1193]

Originally Posted By hatebreed:

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:

Originally Posted By WX:
Go to J C Penny's and look at the Moisenite.



Exactly what I was going to say.

But I think diamonds are stupid.



I saw some Moissanite rings at JC Penney the other day. I sure as hell couldn't tell the difference between them and diamond.

To compare:

3-stone 2 tcw Diamond ring: $3300

3-stone 2.15 tcw Moissanite ring: $1750




And I can still put together a real diamond ring at the price and sell it to you cheaper. At $1,750 it's not any great savings. You're basically getting a fake Diamond for the price of a genuine wholesale diamond. No big deal.

That said, I'd love to see the Diamond market crash. It would drive the market on my genuinely rare stones through the roof.

But in the end, it's just not going to happen. DeBeers will do the same thing they did with the Arkansas Diamond mine. Buy it and then shut it down. Anybody who thinks DeBeers worries about jack or shit needs their head checked.



I know that the prices are retail and that I could find (and have found) rings with both stones at better prices. I was simply making the point that a Moissanite looks just as nice as a diamond and is nearly as hard (9.25 vs 10 on the hardness scale) for roughly half the price.
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