Quoted: Quoted: This is for all you Colt Bashers out there who wish that their AR could say this Read the Rollmark and Cry like the bitches that you are images.snapfish.com/3456%3B%3A6%3B23232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3C%3D363%3D437%3DXROQDF%3E2323%3B57%3C%3B6%3B39ot1lsi your post makes no sense

Oh yes it does. You just don't get it. Don't feel bad, not everyone can.

Quoted: Quoted: This is for all you Colt Bashers out there who wish that their AR could say this Read the Rollmark and Cry like the bitches that you are images.snapfish.com/3456%3B%3A6%3B23232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3C%3D363%3D437%3DXROQDF%3E2323%3B57%3C%3B6%3B39ot1lsi your post makes no sense

Yes it does, Bushmasters will never see a AR-15A2 Rollmark of any type

I'm sorry, but they flat out don't want to sell some of their products to me. That's their choice, and I'll respect it. I'm not going to seek out a dealer that's successfully skirting Colt's directive AND pay more for it.

Ever last one of my non-Colt ARs funcitons 100%. No issues whatsoever, and I don't meticulously clean or maintain any of them. Others may have a different tale, but given that what I have works AND the companies want me to have them AND they were cheaper, I'm hard pressed to see why buying a Colt makes much sense.

I realize they make fine rifles, but you people who refuse to acknowledge that OTHER manufacturers make reliable rifles at a reasonable cost are astoundingly naive - or snobbish - I'm not sure which.

Quoted: Here is another reminder that your Bushmaster's and RRA's  will never see emblazend on the magwell images.snapfish.com/3456%3B%3A6%3B23232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3C%3D363%3D437%3DXROQDF%3E2323%3B57%3C%3B6%3B39ot1lsi

Thank God they won't... Why would I want proof on my rifle that I paid for overpriced hype.

Quoted: Quoted: Here is another reminder that your Bushmaster's and RRA's  will never see emblazend on the magwell quote] Thank God they won't... Why would I want proof on my rifle that I paid for overpriced hype.

I'd bet you a months pay that I paid less for that rifle than you paid for yours

All you guys who built their own AR's at home and claim they work just as well as a Colt. You should alert the military, so you can give them your superior product and let them know how bad Colt really is.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is for all you Colt Bashers out there who wish that their AR could say this Read the Rollmark and Cry like the bitches that you are images.snapfish.com/3456%3B%3A6%3B23232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3C%3D363%3D437%3DXROQDF%3E2323%3B57%3C%3B6%3B39ot1lsi your post makes no sense yes it does, Bushmasters will never see a AR-15A2 Rollmark of any type

oooh, because for some reason that roll mark is so worth $300.

I'll take 1500 rounds of ammo instead thank you very much

I really do love discussions like this.

For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more!

Thanks for that!

Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that!

Envy what?

Paying to much?

I like this Rollmark too, it is on my Colt 6450




and I got this one too

tee-hee.



I have one of each and almost everything.  They all seem to get along with each other.  

I forgot one

Shouldn't all those Colts say "CAL 5.56MM"?

I'm a Bushy man

You wanna impress me show us your happy setting.

Show me a transferrable one of these that says Bushmaster/OLY/DPMS/... on it and is FACTORY, not a CONVERTED RR:
- Colt M16-A1 lower
- Colt Commando upper
- Gemtech M4-96D suppressor
- Bushnell HoloSight

Quoted: I'm a Bushy man

Kinda like…

AR15-A2 Gov’t Carbine
AR15-A3 Tactical Carbine

Really the AR15-A3 Hoodwink Carbines

Quoted: Quoted: There's no doubt that Colt makes a high-quality AR, and no question that they have outstanding quality. My only beef with them is that they are significantly overpriced.  The cost of the MP testing is at most $10-20, yet Colts often command a $300 premium over equally well-built products. I don't dislike the product at all, I love it - I just dislike their pricing. There are other factors involved.  Suffice it to say that they make a lemon here and there, but you re less likely to get one from them.  All the Colt's I've ever owned (3) have run right out of the box.  I can't say that for all of the others.

That's an empirical statement.

Do you have any ACTUAL NUMBERS (i.e. defect percentages from the various manufacturers) to back that claim up with?

Because I've never seen any.  

I understand that people that overpay for something then need to rationalize it (the psychological term is called cognitive dissonance, for the nerds out there), and that can either be done by convincing themselves that the quality is somehow better (despite an absence of actual evidence), or by other mechnisms, like the classic "it's just envy" rationalization.


Do any of you remember a thread from a few weeks ago, where someone who paid something like $1800 for a Wilson rifle was trying to convince everyone that it was somehow an much superior rifle, better in quality, reliability and workmanship - than Colt, Armalite, etc.   Same thing - whatever people need to tell themselves to feel better about their purchase is fine with me.

Like I said - I got nothing against Colt, and I think they make one of the very top product out there.  If the price difference is $50 or less, I'd pick Colt over Bushmaster or Rock River EVERY TIME - they are definitely an awesome product. But other than the MP testing, there is no discernable difference, and if you WANT to overpay, that's fine - whatever floats your boat.  Likewise, if someone wants greater re-sale value - because obviously lots of people are willing to pay the premium for Colt (whihc is the only reason they can charge it) - then it may also make sense.

But if people are claiming that there is an actual difference that is worth $300, then they need to provide some substantial evidence of what that difference is.  I haven't seen it for the Wilson Combat markup of $800 for some finishing and a nice green coating, and I don't see it for the $300 markup on a Colt for the MP testing.

Quoted: You wanna impress me show us your happy setting.

Quoted: If Colt makes the best AR: 1)Why does the US Military mostly use FN's? 2)Why does Blackwater use Bushmasters? Also Who makes the 1911's for the USMC SpecOps guys?

Now you're factoring in cost. For example:Let's say the military needs a M16 that rates at least a 100 score on their tests. If the Bushy rates a 102 at $500 and the Colt rates a 115 at $800, which do you think the military will buy?

My Estwing hammer is better than your Stanley hammer.  

Now I'm drooling. All that other colt stuff is just civilian crap.

Quoted: Everything has been said before.  I don't know why you and yours insist on bringing it up every 10 seconds. 1) Colt makes the best AR. 2) As long as you don't challenge us on number 1, we don't care what you use.  Just don't ask us why the bolt broke on you 6.5 inch DPMS pistol upper.

Please let me know where I can get one of these "Colt AR"s.
The last time I looked, Colt was only offering the "AR"s that people want to LE/MIL.
Everybody else is stuck with a "Match Target" models with fixed buttstocks with "post-ban" barrels and "compensators".

Quoted: Quoted: If Colt makes the best AR: 1)Why does the US Military mostly use FN's? for M16/M4s? they dont, they are still mostly Colts.  FN is making them now however.

A2s are FNs.
Colt never got a contract for the A2.
M4s and A1s, if you can find them.

Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that!

Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You should have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment.

Quoted: My only beef with them is that they are significantly overpriced.  The cost of the MP testing is at most $10-20, yet Colts often command a $300 premium over equally well-built products. I don't dislike the product at all, I love it - I just dislike their pricing.

I don't know DK, when you look at the likes of Les Baer and Wilson Combat where you can easily pay over $2000 for an AR that is not functionally any better than a Colt, I don't think think they are overpriced. In any case, as with the LE6920 gouging we saw recently, the pricing is driven by dealer's perception of the market. If you look, you can find Colts for what they shoult be, about $200 more than a comparable Bushmaster. Considering resale on a Colt is going to be much better than a Bushy in terms of depreciation, it's really not  bad investment at all.  There are definitely those who overvalue them, and price themselves out of the market of reasonable people, but I have always been able to find dealers who charge a fair price.

Quoted: Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that! Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment.

What he said...

Quoted: Please let me know where I can get one of these "Colt AR"s. The last time I looked, Colt was only offering the "AR"s that people want to LE/MIL. Everybody else is stuck with a "Match Target" models with fixed buttstocks with "post-ban" barrels and "compensators".

This is a complete falsehood, you have been listening to the BS information put out by mindless idiots who bash Colt without even knowing the facts.  Knesek,Kieslers, CDNN, hell even Atlantic all sell Colt LE carbines to the public where not prohibited by law. Almost every reputable gun shop in town here has a couple of LE6920s, 6520s and the like in stock.

You should not believe everything you read on the internet - research it yourself. Come to the Colt industry forum, we'll help you find an LE Colt for a good price if that's what you seek.

Quoted: Quoted: Please let me know where I can get one of these "Colt AR"s. The last time I looked, Colt was only offering the "AR"s that people want to LE/MIL. Everybody else is stuck with a "Match Target" models with fixed buttstocks with "post-ban" barrels and "compensators". This is a complete falsehood, you have been listening to the BS information put out by mindless idiots who bash Colt without even knowing the facts.

Like SteyrAug for example.

Quoted: Quoted: Please let me know where I can get one of these "Colt AR"s. The last time I looked, Colt was only offering the "AR"s that people want to LE/MIL. Everybody else is stuck with a "Match Target" models with fixed buttstocks with "post-ban" barrels and "compensators". This is a complete falsehood, you have been listening to the BS information put out by mindless idiots who bash Colt without even knowing the facts.  Knesek,Kieslers, CDNN, hell even Atlantic all sell Colt LE carbines to the public where not prohibited by law. Almost every reputable gun shop in town here has a couple of LE6920s, 6520s and the like in stock. You should not believe everything you read on the internet - research it yourself. Come to the Colt industry forum, we'll help you find an LE Colt for a good price if that's what you seek.

No true.

He did not say they were prohibited by law… he was pointing out COLT forbids sales by their dealers of these rifles to non LEO customers. Thereby pissing on gun owners once again.

No matter what, some people will never understand the difference between a Ferrari and a Corvette. Just because they are equal in performance, does not make them equal to those that know and appreciate quality.

Quoted: Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that! Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You should have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment.

Stop being such a Drama Queen. You know as well as I do Colt sells rifles with all the evil features to the public. I just bought one a little while ago. As far the FCG pin size, that was a decision made a long time ago they chose to make, if that's your argument, it's very weak. It's obvious you are just trying to stir the pot here. It's annoying, but that is about it.

At least Colt didn't cave in to the anti gunners on a cataclysmic scale like Bushmaster did with settling the DC shooter lawsuit by paying the plaintiffs off. They set an extremely harmful legal precedent by admitting that gun manufacturers are responsible for ALL crime commited with the firearms they made, this hurt the gun lobby more than Colt could ever do.  So why don't you bitch about Bushmaster's heinous actions? Because you are trolling and everyone knows it.

Quoted: No matter what, some people will never understand the difference between a Ferrari and a Corvette. Just because they are equal in performance, does not make them equal to those that know and appreciate quality.

And some people think a label makes something different when it ain’t.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's no doubt that Colt makes a high-quality AR, and no question that they have outstanding quality. My only beef with them is that they are significantly overpriced.  The cost of the MP testing is at most $10-20, yet Colts often command a $300 premium over equally well-built products. I don't dislike the product at all, I love it - I just dislike their pricing. There are other factors involved.  Suffice it to say that they make a lemon here and there, but you re less likely to get one from them.  All the Colt's I've ever owned (3) have run right out of the box.  I can't say that for all of the others. That's an empirical statement. Do you have any ACTUAL NUMBERS (i.e. defect percentages from the various manufacturers) to back that claim up with? Because I've never seen any.

No.  The Colt has been thoroughly tested and the results recorded, but no one has done that with the others.

My test results are what I have seen at high round count training packages, as well as that of trainers who see a million rounds a year go downrange.  They note that Colt's are less problematic.  A S.A.W. Reliability Package on an LE6920 is probably the most reliable M4 type rifle in existence.  Yes, there will be ones that won't work, but all in all, your chance of getting a shooter will be highest.

Quoted: Quoted: My only beef with them is that they are significantly overpriced.  The cost of the MP testing is at most $10-20, yet Colts often command a $300 premium over equally well-built products. I don't dislike the product at all, I love it - I just dislike their pricing. I don't know DK, when you look at the likes of Les Baer and Wilson Combat where you can easily pay over $2000 for an AR that is not functionally any better than a Colt, I don't think think they are overpriced. In any case, as with the LE6920 gouging we saw recently, the pricing is driven by dealer's perception of the market. If you look, you can find Colts for what they shoult be, about $200 more than a comparable Bushmaster. Considering resale on a Colt is going to be much better than a Bushy in terms of depreciation, it's really not  bad investment at all.  There are definitely those who overvalue them, and price themselves out of the market of reasonable people, but I have always been able to find dealers who charge a fair price.

I agree completely that of course it's a market, and Colt's pricing is entirely driven by the demand of peopel who are WILLING to pay the $200-$300 markup over brands like Bushmaster and RRA.

I'm jsut saying that I cannot see an actual REASON - like additional cost or better quality (beyond the $10 cost for the additional testing) - for the price difference.  I'm not trying to suggest that Colt is somehow evil for charing the price - Colt is being perfectly rational in a capitalist market.  I don't have any beef with the Colt company (which perhaps was unclear in my original post).

I'm just saying that I personally am not going to pay $200 - $300 MORE for a product, unless I can understand what exactly makes it WORTH $200-$300 more.  And that's what Colt owners have yet to convince me of.  



(As an aside, if in fact Colts differentially hold their value better than competitors in the futre, that might also be a small reason, but it has to be weighed against the NPV of the price difference over time.  In other words, if you pay $200 more for a colt, and you can sell it for $200 more 10 years later, that was a stupid move, since you put $200 in limbo for 10 years that you could otherwise have been earning interest on.  So the re-sale question is only valid if it is factually correct that Colts drop in value at a differential rate from other manufacturers, and that differential has to be greater than the interest possible on the difference over that time period.  Otherwise the re-sale argument is also a bit of a wash.)

Quoted: Please let me know where I can get one of these "Colt AR"s. The last time I looked, Colt was only offering the "AR"s that people want to LE/MIL. Everybody else is stuck with a "Match Target" models with fixed buttstocks with "post-ban" barrels and "compensators".

Straw Man argument.  There are plenty of places to get an LE Colt.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please let me know where I can get one of these "Colt AR"s. The last time I looked, Colt was only offering the "AR"s that people want to LE/MIL. Everybody else is stuck with a "Match Target" models with fixed buttstocks with "post-ban" barrels and "compensators". This is a complete falsehood, you have been listening to the BS information put out by mindless idiots who bash Colt without even knowing the facts.  Knesek,Kieslers, CDNN, hell even Atlantic all sell Colt LE carbines to the public where not prohibited by law. Almost every reputable gun shop in town here has a couple of LE6920s, 6520s and the like in stock. You should not believe everything you read on the internet - research it yourself. Come to the Colt industry forum, we'll help you find an LE Colt for a good price if that's what you seek. No true. He did not say they were prohibited by law… he was pointing out COLT forbids sales by their dealers of these rifles to non LEO customers. Thereby pissing on gun owners once again.

Did you just wake up or do you just believe the shit you read on the internet

Quoted: I got my colt thru a private deal and it was cheaper than anyother for me. I  also like to have my firearms work with out haveing it worked on by me or a gunsmith, it's the only one Ive bought other than my glocks that not only had the sights straight but actually worked. My builds and teh builds I do for my friends all have colt bolt and carriers other lowers and uppers. If Colt makes the best AR: 1)Why does the US Military mostly use FN's?   FN makes the 20"ers because they are cheaper and good enouph but they are still tested like colts are, and the others are not Wrong. LMT rifles are all MP tested. 2)Why does Blackwater use Bushmasters? because they're cheaper and good enouph to them, which still isn't good enouph for me Also Who makes the 1911's for the USMC SpecOps guys? they do their own in house pistols useing diff people parts

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that! Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You should have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment. Stop being such a Drama Queen. You know as well as I do Colt sells rifles with all the eveil features to the public. As far the FCG pin size, that was a decision mad a long time ago they chose to make, if that's your argument, it's very weak. It's obvious you are just trying to stir the pot here. It's annoying, but that is about it.

I know nothing of the sort. What I know is that SteyrAug had to beg, borrow and steal to fulfill orders for his Colt LE rifle GP, and that he was unable to fill orders for people who were not LEO's and did not have letterhead from their departments.

I know that I have never once seen a Colt "LE" (why do the designate them LE anyways?) rifles on the shelf in any gun store or gun show that I have been to.

Here are the rifles that colt has deemed accecptable for your use:

www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/rifles.asp

If you ever picked up a colt revolver (python, cobra, etc.) you would probably know. I had a beautiful stainless 4" revolver that had the sweetest action you ever saw.  I would love to have one of each but the budget won't allow it.  

BTW, I also love my first pistol...a 70 series colt govt. model.  I would be out shooting it everyday if the weather would cooperate.

Quoted: Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You should have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment.

I bet you have spent more money on stuff made in China than I have spent on my Colts.

I bet you have spent more money on stuff made/sold by companies run Demonrats than I have spent on my Colts.

And I don't waste a lot of time getting gun owners to fight amongst themselves.  I would rather bait the anti-gun nuts instead.

Who is the biggest collaborator?  Me or you?

Colt has a place in American firearms history.  Like it or not.  That means something to some, and nothing to others.  I kinda think its cool.  I don't care if you do or not.  

I like my Colts and my Bushmaster as well.

But at the end of the day, the Colt will fetch a bit more $$.

Why don't you bitch about Romanian AK's and how they don't support the second amendment?  Or Wolf ammo?

DK, consider that higher tolerances will cause a higher rejection rate, and that higher quality, newer machine tools which are more accurate cost more.  One reason Olympics are cheap is because the tooling is old- some of it is older than anyone who works there.

So you have to buy more forgings to get the good ones.  Now, when something fails the MP, you throw the whole batch out, instead of sending out to a customer.  

Not to mention that Colt's come with the proper FSB, which requires greater inventory and complexity to the construction process, and superior handguards which use a two layer heat shield... they are a lot more complex than other makers.  The use a wide range of parts.

Now add in that you operate in a state that wants to ban your product, and rely on the military not changing suppliers for political reasons.

I think that will answer a few questions.

Bottom-line: In the end, AR15's will sell for what the market will bear. Obviously the majority of buyers feel that the Colt is worth a couple of hundred more dollars, otherwise Colt would not be selling any AR15 rifles and they would be forced to lower their price to compete. Also, if Bushmasters were perceived as being the same value as the Colt, Bushmaster could raise their prices by a couple of hundred bucks to the same level as the Colt and not see an impact on their sales volume.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that! Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You should have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment. Stop being such a Drama Queen. You know as well as I do Colt sells rifles with all the eveil features to the public. As far the FCG pin size, that was a decision mad a long time ago they chose to make, if that's your argument, it's very weak. It's obvious you are just trying to stir the pot here. It's annoying, but that is about it. I know nothing of the sort. What I know is that SteyrAug had to beg, borrow and steal to fulfill orders for his Colt LE rifle GP, and that he was unable to fill orders for people who were not LEO's and did not have letterhead from their departments. I know that I have never once seen a Colt "LE" (why do the designate them LE anyways?) rifles on the shelf in any gun store or gun show that I have been to. Here are the rifles that colt has deemed accecptable for your use: www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/rifles.asp

Come to DFW.

Gunmaster
Bachmanns
Bullet Trap

All have LE Colts on the shelf. Granted, you will pay brick and mortar gun shop markup, but they are there and available. On internet retailers LE Colts are everywhere.

Honestly if that is your argument, you were out before you even got out of the dugout.

However if you really believe this, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona you may be interested in....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's no doubt that Colt makes a high-quality AR, and no question that they have outstanding quality. My only beef with them is that they are significantly overpriced.  The cost of the MP testing is at most $10-20, yet Colts often command a $300 premium over equally well-built products. I don't dislike the product at all, I love it - I just dislike their pricing. There are other factors involved.  Suffice it to say that they make a lemon here and there, but you re less likely to get one from them.  All the Colt's I've ever owned (3) have run right out of the box.  I can't say that for all of the others. That's an empirical statement. Do you have any ACTUAL NUMBERS (i.e. defect percentages from the various manufacturers) to back that claim up with? Because I've never seen any. No.  The Colt has been thoroughly tested and the results recorded, but no one has done that with the others. My test results are what I have seen at high round count training packages, as well as that of trainers who see a million rounds a year go downrange.  They note that Colt's are less problematic.  A S.A.W. Reliability Package on an LE6920 is probably the most reliable M4 type rifle in existence.  Yes, there will be ones that won't work, but all in all, your chance of getting a shooter will be highest.

I'm sorry - but you are talking nonsense.   If you have numbers, please provide them.  Unsubstantiated claims about data (all company do in-house QC - that's not what I am talking about - I am talking about failture and defect rates after they leave the factory) and anecdotal observations are NOT data.

If you do not have the DATA - i.e. somethign like defect rates from the different manufacturers - then you CANNOT make statements as to the "chances of getting a shooter" from one company versus another.

People's perceptions of Bushmaster's quality are skewed, because there are so many more Bushmasters in the market recently, for instance.  In 2003 for example, Bushmaster made over 3 times as many ARs as Colt.  If they had the EXACT SAME defect rate, you should see more than 3 broken new Bushmaster rifles for each broken new Colt rifle.  However, most people - if they even see twice as many broken Bushmasters than Colt, immediately draw the completely incorrect conclusion that Colt must have better quality.  In fact, if you were to observe twice as monay broken NEW Bushmasters than NEW Colts, the correct conclusion would be that Bushmaster has BETTER quality than Colt, assuming they made more than twice as many rifles that year.  (Of course, that's only with 2003 numbers - obviously Colt manufactured far MORE AR's than bushmaster in the past, but Bushmaster manufacture far more recently - and there's no accounting for how many old Colts are "safe queens, etc.).

My point is merely that unless you have access to real numbers about failure and defect rates, anecdotal stories are worthless.  They do not provide any generalizable data.



I'm also compelled to ask about your credentials, because you talk as if you are heavily inolved with testing and using ARs under tough conditions, but I thougth you had a regular job, or were in college or something - so I'm wondering where all this technical knowledge comes from that allows you to speak with great authority about the reliability of one bran over another.

I'm only asking becausee you are making claims about KNOWING the quality and reliability differences.  I am merely saying that I DON'T KNOW.  So I'm curious what qualifies you to make these claims.

Quoted: Quoted: No true. He did not say they were prohibited by law… he was pointing out COLT forbids sales by their dealers of these rifles to non LEO customers. Thereby pissing on gun owners once again. Did you just wake up or do you just believe the shit you read on the internet

I suggest you ask SteyrAug if this is some Internet fantasy…

Keep drinking the Kool-aid.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I really do love discussions like this. For some reason all the Colt bashing just seems like Colt-envy and makes me treasure mine all that much more. Not that I don't love all my Bushys, Olys, Stags and DPMS rifles, but the noteriety just makes my Colt LE6920 really warm my heart all that much more! Thanks for that! Why does supporting a known enemy of the second amendment make you happy? You should have your head shaved and be made a public spectacle. You might as well donate the money you paid for your Colt to the Brady Bunch. You're basically collaborating with the enemies of the second amendment. Stop being such a Drama Queen. You know as well as I do Colt sells rifles with all the evil features to the public. I just bought one a little while ago. As far the FCG pin size, that was a decision made a long time ago they chose to make, if that's your argument, it's very weak. It's obvious you are just trying to stir the pot here. It's annoying, but that is about it. At least Colt didn't cave in to the anti gunners on a cataclysmic scale like Bushmaster did with settling the DC shooter lawsuit by paying the plaintiffs off. They set an extremely harmful legal precedent by admitting that gun manufacturers are responsible for ALL crime commited with the firearms they made, this hurt the gun lobby more than Colt could ever do.  So why don't you bitch about Bushmaster's heinous actions? Because you are trolling and everyone knows it.

You're dead wrong and you know it. Bushmaster settled out of court with the plaintiffs in the DC Sniper case because if they were sued beyond what their insurance would cover it would have done serious financial dammage to their company. Besides, they were already being sued by the Colt (not only do they refuse to sell to civilians, they attack those who do! ). Bushmaster's settlement with the plaintiffs in the DC Sniper case had absolutely no adverse effect on second amendment rights in any way shape or form. Bushmaster accecpted no liability, they just did what every business does when they are being sued: they tried to make it go away quietly.  Now we have the Lawful Commerce in Arms act which protects Bushmaster and Colt (although they don't deserve it) from lawsuits.

Try again.

It's too bad that CJanNH isn't here

Quoted: I know that I have never once seen a Colt "LE" (why do the designate them LE anyways?) rifles on the shelf in any gun store or gun show that I have been to. Here are the rifles that colt has deemed accecptable for your use: www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/rifles.asp

You haven't looked very hard then......................seek and you shall find, or just ask someone

TFL