November 21, 2005

Tanks a lot
Donated Cold War-era armor makes its way to Iraqi army

The core combat power of the Iraqi army’s first armored division will be the T72M1, a mutt of a tank. The tanks originally were built in Poland and the Czech Republic and had been mothballed in Hungarian tank depots. Now manufactured in the Czech Republic, donated by the Hungarian government and refurbished by U.S. contractors, a fleet of nearly factory-fresh T72 main battle tanks is making its way to Iraq, due to stand up in December with Iraq’s 9th Motorized Rifle Division.

The T72M1 is the T72 upgraded with more steel on the hull’s front slope and composite armor in the turret front.

With the Cold War over, 77 Hungarian T72s — variants of the Soviet T72 tank — were put in storage until that Eastern European country offered them to Iraq for free.

Washington, D.C.-based Defense Solutions has a $5 million contract with Iraq’s Ministry of Defense that includes refurbishing the tanks. The cost of shipping them to Iraq will be donated by other NATO nations.

After the tanks’ automotive and fire control systems are brought back to original manufacturer standards, the spiffed-up tanks are shipped by rail from the factory in Hungary to a port in Slovenia.

Then, a roll-on/roll-off ship, sailing under the Greek flag, takes them to Kuwait, where the tanks will be loaded onto flatbed trucks and moved to a base in Taji, north of Baghdad. The tanks should be in use before the December elections, Iraqi military officials said.

Lt. Col. Fred Wellman, spokesman for the Multi-National Security Transition Command, said the Iraqis were thrilled to be getting the equipment “they’ve always dreamed of having.”

When do I get mine....for free

Dang, I wouldve gladly accepted that donation. I might not be able to fit all 77 in my backyard though

Damn, the Hungarians missed out on an opportunity to sell to our members. I would have bought one for that price and paid shipping!  

I would have had the best lawn decoration in the city.

Yeah,we could use it in our Tank vs.Tornado test!

Group buy?

Gulf war 1.  Remember the photos of T-72s that literally popped their top when hit?  Aren't these tanks obsolete 3X over?
The T-72M1

The T-72

The date on the article made me freak out. I have stuff due before that date.

Like this?



T-72M1/M2 Moderna (Main Battle Tank):    

As the USSR slowly fell apart, each splinter state began to sell their arms world-wide in a massive attempt for instant cash.  Thousands of T-72's were sold and modified according to each nations taste.  The Moderna is a Czech derivative which mounts reactive armour, a third party fire control computer fire system with laser rangefinder, thermal imaging, and perhaps the most unusual feature; a pair of 20mm Oerlikon KAA autocannons on the back of the turret for anti-personal/aircraft use.  An advanced passive IR detection system allows the crew to know if the tank is under IR notice, or 'painted'.

Why did we buy them T72's? when we have these in mothballs?

Quoted: Like this? altnet.ru/~military/btvt/tank/2000/russia/t72/T72M2Moderna.jpg T-72M1/M2 Moderna (Main Battle Tank):     As the USSR slowly fell apart, each splinter state began to sell their arms world-wide in a massive attempt for instant cash.  Thousands of T-72's were sold and modified according to each nations taste.  The Moderna is a Czech derivative which mounts reactive armour, a third party fire control computer fire system with laser rangefinder, thermal imaging, and perhaps the most unusual feature; a pair of 20mm Oerlikon KAA autocannons on the back of the turret for anti-personal/aircraft use.  An advanced passive IR detection system allows the crew to know if the tank is under IR notice, or 'painted'.

that looks pretty damn cool.

Quoted: Gulf war 1.  Remember the photos of T-72s that literally popped their top when hit?  Aren't these tanks obsolete 3X over? The T-72M1 altnet.ru/~military/btvt/tank/2000/russia/t72/T72M1.jpg The T-72 hem.passagen.se/helind/gallery/35/t72.jpg onlineathens.com/images/032003/war2.jpg dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/albums/album12/100_1974.highlight.jpg www.psywarrior.com/ds2.jpg

Ha spare parts for their new tanks!

Quoted: Quoted: Gulf war 1.  Remember the photos of T-72s that literally popped their top when hit?  Aren't these tanks obsolete 3X over? The T-72M1 altnet.ru/~military/btvt/tank/2000/russia/t72/T72M1.jpg The T-72 hem.passagen.se/helind/gallery/35/t72.jpg onlineathens.com/images/032003/war2.jpg dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/albums/album12/100_1974.highlight.jpg www.psywarrior.com/ds2.jpg Ha spare parts for their new tanks!

Did you notice the upside down turret.

Quoted: Gulf war 1.  Remember the photos of T-72s that literally popped their top when hit?  Aren't these tanks obsolete 3X over?

Doesn’t every tank in the world “pop its top” when hit with a 155mm DU sabot round?

I remembered when the T-72 first appeared and how nervous we were about them.  Then the Israelis creamed a bunch of them and we weren't so scared anymore.  

The T-72 is the logical choice for the Iraqi Army.  They've had them in the past and so they have mechanics (and probably equipment and tools) to maintain them in the field.  Getting them our old armor would require a lot of American training and effort that we won't have to spend.

Okay, the twin 20mm cannon is pretty damn cool. I LIKE that.

Hey M1 guys, would you guys like a 25mm Bushmaster on your tank as well?

Quoted: Why did we buy them T72's?worldweapon.ru/images/tank/m60/sm60_08_a1.jpg when we have these in mothballs?

Because they are trained to use Soviet-era (Russian) armaments and know how to maintain them. h.gif  

What do the Iranians use?

Probably not much better!

Damn, those tanks are for the 8th Mechanical Division. My unit is up armoring a ton of trucks for that unit. I got to meet a BN CO in that division yesterday. Really nice guy, shouldnt have a prob killin the insurgents.

Quoted: What do the Iranians use? Probably not much better!

I used to do Iranian OOB.  The Rooshins view Iran as a lucrative customer for their armaments.  Under the Shah, they got pretty much whatever they wanted in U.S. hardware.

This is a good representation:

www.sarbazan.com/iigf.htm


Armor in Iranian Army today:
Chieftain (Shir1) MBT
M48/M48A5 MBT
M60A1 MBT
M47/M47M tank
Zulfaqhar MBT
T-72 MBT
Type 72-Z MBT
T-62 MBT
T-54/T-55 MBT
Type 59 MBT
Type 69-2 MBT
Safir-74 MBT
Scorpion light tank
Tosan light tank
EE-9 Cascavel recce
BMP-1 IFV
BMP-2 IFV
BTR-50 APC
BTR-60 APC
M113A1 APC
M113 TOW TD
Boragh APC
Cobra APC

heh just more shit for us to shoot up in 5-10 years again

Yep, these Iraqi units will support the flanks during our attack into Qom.

Can you imagine how well the Iraqis would join together if they could take Iran when Saddam was unable to?

The Iraqi Shiites are taking aid from Iran but both groups still hate each other.

those burned out tanks are T55's, btw

My guess Syria and Iran are a little more concerned.....

SRM

Quoted: My guess Syria and Iran are a little more concerned..... SRM

Couldn't agree more.

G

Quoted: Gulf war 1.  Remember the photos of T-72s that literally popped their top when hit?  Aren't these tanks obsolete 3X over? The T-72M1 altnet.ru/~military/btvt/tank/2000/russia/t72/T72M1.jpg The T-72 hem.passagen.se/helind/gallery/35/t72.jpg onlineathens.com/images/032003/war2.jpg dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/albums/album12/100_1974.highlight.jpg www.psywarrior.com/ds2.jpg

Those destroyed tanks are not T72s, they are T55s
(except, maybe the smaller pic...I cant tell for sure)

Quoted: Those destroyed tanks are not T72s, they are T55s (except, maybe the smaller pic...I cant tell for sure)

The smaller pic is hard because the turret is upsidedown.

Quoted: those burned out tanks are T55's, btw

What the N.Koreans use.  To bad we are not invading, it would be a turkey shoot.

Quoted: Gulf war 1.  Remember the photos of T-72s that literally popped their top when hit?  Aren't these tanks obsolete 3X over? The T-72M1 altnet.ru/~military/btvt/tank/2000/russia/t72/T72M1.jpg The T-72 hem.passagen.se/helind/gallery/35/t72.jpg onlineathens.com/images/032003/war2.jpg dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/albums/album12/100_1974.highlight.jpg www.psywarrior.com/ds2.jpg

The T-72s are indeed obsolete, but the blown up tanks in your pictures are T-55s. Notice the much higher dome of the turret and the different barrel profile of the main gun.

ETA: Didn't read page two... The one with the upside down turret is also a T-55. The thicker portion being at the muzzle of the barrel gives it away.

Quoted: Why did we buy them T72's?worldweapon.ru/images/tank/m60/sm60_08_a1.jpg when we have these in mothballs?

But we don't have those in mothballs anymore. We gave some away, and Clinton sent many into the ocean to be used as reefs.

If the crews are decently trained, and they get some real ammunition for a change, specced-up T-72s ought to be quite capable against pretty much any opponents that they're liable to go up against.

NTM

Quoted: Quoted: Why did we buy them T72's?worldweapon.ru/images/tank/m60/sm60_08_a1.jpg when we have these in mothballs? But we don't have those in mothballs anymore. We gave some away, and Clinton sent many into the ocean to be used as reefs.

That's not good.

In the event of a war with a country like China, M-60's would be useful.

Not up the standards of an Abrams, but that M68 gun is still capable of killing almost everything that the Chinese have.

T-72s are not "obsolete"...maybe against modern militaries such as the US military, Germany and England..but even against say a Russian force the T-72 would still be a threat...same goes for Iraqis vs. Syria, Iran, Turkey....   From the US perspective most everything out there is obsolete, except for a few things like the Leopard 2, T-90...aaaaand yea..  T-72s do the job