[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pilot Error! UPDATE: Got a New Job (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/28/2005 12:29:35 AM EDT
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This could be a very long story, but i'll try to keep it very short. I'm a pilot with my MEI rating, and formerly worked for what some would call the "best" flight school in the country if not the world. I had been working there for nearly two years when I hit a streak of bad luck. It was a training flight, and we were VFR on top. It was myself and a female student. The student was having a very difficult time understanding the concept behind NDB instrumentation. I placed her on a bearing that would put us between Bravo airspace and restricted airspace as we flew south bound. The winds were out of the west that day and we entered into restricted airspace by 4 nautical miles. It was totally my fault, and I felt stupid for making a mistake. It was my first mistake in an airplane, and I didn't take it very well. Needless to say...I was given the option to resign or be terminated. I chose to resign. Tonight, while playing poker with my former co-workers, I was told and have proof, that my name had been brought up and discussed during a team meeting between flight instructors by management. This is a big no no. They are allowed to discuss the situation to help prevent future occurences, but are not allowed to use my name. What should I do? I'm really upset about this. It's not like everyone didn't already know, but the management knows better and should have handled the situation in a more professional manner. Your opinions are very welcome. Thanks. 
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Sorry to hear it. I know how you feel. When i had my finger cut off in the Navy, my name was tossed around by the Command after i left. THey used to say shit like "don't mess around or you'll end up like <my name>." The truth of the story was drastically different than what they were saying. But none the less, their story fit their motives. Sorry to hear it. Should i assume you were with Emery Riddle or FIT Flight School? I know a girl who is an instructor for FIT's Flight Program. Her an my sister were in the same sorority (cult  ).
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| Because you violated the airspace they are using that as an excuse to make you go away, I would say fight it because training is just that, mistakes amd TCA or "Class B" incursions happen every day even to the most experienced pilots. They probably did not like you, not reason enough to get fired, and since the violation was balck and white and on paper, I would say let them terminate you and get an aviation attorney one who specializes in this. |
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This is an employment issue, not an aviation issue. Who says they can't talk about it? Is there a fed reg or statute or something? Generally, so long as its true, people can talk about you all they want. |
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I got fired from a good job over a really bullshit reason. Me and a new guy butted heads over one too many firearm safety violations on his part and I got canned. I went to work for the competition and I told them everytime I build a rifle and get it shipped, that's one up your ass. One door shuts, another opens. |
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Do a google search for Blatnik Vs. Avery Dennsion. In that case, an employee was fired for sexual harassment, then was 'defamed' afterwards when the circumstances surrounding his firing were discussed in an employee meeting. It might be relevant to your case. <---not a lawyer, and doesn't even play one on the internet, but did manage to stay awake for a few minutes during a law class once........ |
Defamation only occurs when people say things about you that are not true and the person either knew, or should have known its not true, and you suffer some sort of damage. Here, everything that was discussed is true, isn't it? |
Actually, whether the defamation was true or not doesn't matter so much as the intent of the statements. If you got fired because they videotaped you screwing a chicken - clear proof of a clear offense - AND THEY TALKED ABOUT IT TO 'make an example' OF YOU, then it could be defamation. Your company MAY have qualified privilege to make statements against you - but if they do so with malicious intent, they're still liable for defamation. <---Still not a lawyer. |
Actually they were very nice about the mishap. They only wanted to make sure I wasn't taking pictures or something stupid like that. They said not to worry about it. |
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| That really sucks. If you can find another job reasonably easy with the same income, I say leave it alone and get a new job. If your going to have difficulty finding new employment, then fight to get your job back, but then again, do you want to still work for assholes? |
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In the real world if they did not ask EVERYONE who did what you did to resign or be terminated they will likely lose in a court fight. I'd think about getting an attorney. Right to work or not, this may be an arbitrary, hence discriminatory firing. ETA I'm re-reading your story and am having trouble with a couple of phrases. "String of bad luck". Was this referencing JUST this one incident? Any other incidents? "Needless to say". Does this mean you fully expected to be fired because you knew it was policy? |
If thats the case, leave it alone! |
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First, realize people are gonna talk. Deal with it and get over it. As to getting violated, you have the NASA form's protection, but I'm guessing your intention is to work into an ATP situation? If so, I'd avoid rocking the boat. You left ER for your own reasons. Lot's of people hate that place (just ask Clyde Morris!). Find another fllight school and continue to build time...... Why did ER take it so badly though, was it the violating of restricted airspace (NASA?) or was it the way you handled it (not well from your account, did you unload on the student?? What happened?). Bottom line, I am wondering if this is a key here? Needing more info here is what is making me speculate, and I may be TOTALLY wrong. All in all, find another school and go back to teaching. Or go fly some freight if you hate teaching. You obviously have a lot of time and $ invested being a multi engine instructor. And take all this advise for what it's worth (what you're paying, really). In my case, a low time, rookie PPL (yeah, I'm sure the airport bums are still talking about my screw up, a botched crosswind landing (aborted, all ended well). Witnessed by two members of the CAP squadron I was contemplating joining no less..... ah well, live and learn...... Regards, T Bone (Detroit). |
what kind of restricted airspace was it?
"String of bad luck" was a bad choice of words. They told me either to resign or be fired. I took the resignation. Thought it was best for my career. 
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Actually I handled the situation very professionally. I took the whole blame, so that the student would not receive shit over it also. I did everything by the numbers and then some. Overall it was the best/worst situation that could have happened. I chatted with my union rep. and he said it came down to being example time of the year and it was just bad timeing on my part. Wrong place wrong time I guess. A lot of people stood up for me, which was nice, but to no avail. |
Kennedy Space Center Restricted Airspace. No rocket on the platform. Thats why it wasn't a big deal. Like I said it was only 4 nautical miles. I had no visual references to the outside since we were VFR on Top. I should have payed more attention to my GPS/ADSB. GOD I'M STUPID!
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Oh, bullshit! Without outside references, and attending a student, it's a MISTAKE at WORST. Just for the hell of it, have you spoken to a lawyer? I hate the bastards, but I would, anyway.... 
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Since they let you resign let it go. Florida law requires no reson for termination unless your're in a protected class. It's a bad idea to continure stay with a job if they don't like you. They'll get rid of you one way or another. I'm not in the business anymore but it appears that the DAB area is not a good area for entry level pilots due to the glut of low-time commercial pilots. Good Luck and keep your wing down and you bobber up. |
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Stuff like that gets discussed in the locker room or break room all the time anyway. Even if they didnt use your name everyone would have known who it was. Also it seems they were using you as an example to make things better so there was no malice directed toward you. Time to walk away. We have stuff like this at the hospital all the time when a doc fucks up. Its easier to let it go, the more fuss you make the worse it gets. |
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I have not spoken to any lawyers yet. I was told to keep quiet to everyone until I find out whether or not I have been violated. I got my copy of the NASA form back the other day. So the worst thing they can do to me now is to violate me. They cannot suspend my license or revoke it. So at least I can keep on doing my thing. I've got a interview lined up and it's looking good. I don't think I will have a problem getting the job since my friend is the assistant chief pilot. Wish me luck! taulce1  PS - I've decided to let the situation go at Embry-Riddle. It's just not worth it. |
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I'll put it bluntly. Fuck ER. They are not the best flight school in the world, country, or state. They just think they are. Yes, you made an error. I have too. I was over the Grapevine (Socal mountains) in IMC and got blown about 5 nm off of my assigned course. When I got back to my school, there were rumors circulating about me and my abilities. I went ballistic, then tried to squash it. Then I decided not to give a fuck, and it went away. They fired you, move on, and one day your boss at ER will be your F/O. |
+1 |
+1 I've been there. I think you're thinking about an "Employment at Will" state though. Right to Work has more to do with unions I think. Unless a law was broken, there's not much you can do. They don't need a reason to let you go. That's just the way it is I'm afraid. |
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Good news guys. After a month of down time, I've finally got a new job. Still flight instructing, but at a new location. It's a small operation compared to my last job, but it will get the job done. I don't plan on being there very long before moving on to the airlines. Cloud Dancer Aviation is the name of the place. I hope it's a good place to work. I'll keep you updated.
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+1 ERAU is a rich kids playground. At least that is the way it is on the Prescott campus. They have some good teachers and instructors but ERAU as a whole doesnt care about you unless you have lots of money. I have heard many stories of employees and students getting screwed by them. |