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Posted: 7/23/2001 8:13:35 AM EDT
[url]http://members.fortunecity.com/spygearmerch/itm00379.htm[/url] [img]http://members.fortunecity.com/spygearmerch/image25.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:17:50 AM EDT
Is this what the red X in the box was ??? Where did it go ??? I SEE ANOTHER CANADIAN CONSPIRACY HERE !!!!! maybe the red X in the box never existed at all..... [x]
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:18:09 AM EDT
jailbait
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:20:57 AM EDT
RocknRoll City
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:27:13 AM EDT
You buy, you fry BATF style.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:28:39 AM EDT
Not to be a party pooper, but the price seems to good to be true. I know it says it is BATF documented and all, but something ain't right.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:37:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:38:13 AM EDT
Anyone know if anyone has ever been arrested or prosecuted for purchasing one? Or is it kind of like preban uppers on postban lowers? Inquiring minds....
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:40:12 AM EDT
"PRE-NOVEMBER 1981 (with documentation & BATF Letter" doesnt mean sh*t a unregistered DIAS is a unregistered DIAS like a 20 year old letter is gonna keep your ass out of jail
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:45:02 AM EDT
All I know is they said they would even send this thing over the border to Canada when I emailed them, which is illegal.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 8:45:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 10:32:06 AM EDT
Here some info I found on the subject: THE “PRE-81” DROP-IN AUTO SEAR The “pre-81” DIAS - commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns - a serious felony. IT IS A FELONY TO POSSESS BOTH A PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR AND AN AR15 - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - it’s one or the other, but not both. Obviously, this rule makes possession of a pre-81 DIAS useless - if you cannot own the rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 10:39:37 AM EDT
What if you owned one, and kept it 1000 miles away from your home and weapons, at say, a vacation home? Not that I would ever do such a thing.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:03:46 AM EDT
Major Murphy As long as there is no proof with your name on the bill or any check (aka get someone else you trust to buy it and pay them back) to buy the sear and they can't locate it your plenty safe. What I would is get the Auto sear, put it in a ziplock with all the other M16 parts required at your vacation home and burry it somewhere you can find it, wait 2 months and if the BATF doesn't come a knocking chances are your safe, just don't go shooting with it anywhere public.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:10:56 AM EDT
I would never do such a thing. All of us, however, have good friends somewhere, that are non-gun-owners. THEY could buy these beauties, and become your SHTF buddies. Not that I would EVER do, or endorse such a thing.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:18:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: Here some info I found on the subject: THE “PRE-81” DROP-IN AUTO SEAR The “pre-81” DIAS - commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns - a serious felony. IT IS A FELONY TO POSSESS BOTH A PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR AND AN AR15 - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - it’s one or the other, but not both. Obviously, this rule makes possession of a pre-81 DIAS useless - if you cannot own the rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight.
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Scarecrow - Where did you find that? I wrote that artical several years ago when it was originally posted as a FAQ to the FUN Supply Boards before they closed down. Every once in a while I'll get an email about sears to my old address, but I just figured people had copied the text and passed it around - not that it was still on an active page. Unfortunately at the time I wrote it, I was not aware of US v. Cash and a few other important cases that drastically affect the legality of the possession of an unregistered DIAS...regardless of whether it was made prior to the 1981 BATF ruling or not. In Cash, the 7th Circuit Court of appeals ruled that BATF did not have the power to declare a DIAS a machinegun, but exempt DIAS made prior to the ruling. In other words, BATF can rule a DIAS is a machinegun, but they cannot pick and choose which DIAS's are machineguns and which are not. The 1981 date, the court said was only effective for a tax-paid (free) registration of sears made prior to the ruling. That is, if you had a sear that was made prior to the 1981 BATF ruling, you could register it as a machinegun for free instead of paying the normal $200 making tax. This period of free registration ended however, in 1986 when the future manufacture & registration of all MGs for civie use/possession was prohibited by statute. Therefore DIAS's fall into either one of two categories - either registered or unregistered. The 1981 date is no longer useful, as if the DIAS wasn't registered by 1986, it is forever an unregistered machinegun and thus illegal. Now, Cash is only effective in the 7th US Circuit. It is not yet applicable in any other jurisdiction. However, it should be noted that Cash was a very logical decision with a well known and respected judge, Frank Easterbrook, writing the opinion. WHEN (...and I say "when", because its only a matter of time) the issue is tested in another Circuit, they will follow Cash. Believe me, you do NOT want to be the test case in another jurisdiction for this issue - you'll lose big.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:24:05 AM EDT
I agree with Major Murphy, and I do not endorse the illegal possession of such devices. And I would never have someone else buy it for me who doesn't own a gun, neither would I make one using these diagrams as follows: [url]http://members-http-1.rwc1.sfba.home.net/gryphon223/ar15/fullauto/[/url] , because that would be wrong and a violation of the law upheld by our country's and agencies that take great care of keeping such illegal devices off the street like the FBI for example.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:36:17 AM EDT
Ok, would the thing fit in a Carbon-15? I only ask because the carbon 15 is an almost completely proprietary design, and nothing but the trigger group would interchange with a real AR15... I don't know if it would be listed as an AR15. Wouldn't this circumvent the law, if I used the DIAS in something other than an AR? As much as I hate my carbon, I'm stuck with it, but if this thing'd work and I can skate through a legal loophole, I'd do it. Besides I'd never endorse the knowing assembly of an illegal machine gun in a SHTF situation... I have a cellphone and 911 on speedial.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:42:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RYANG: Ok, would the thing fit in a Carbon-15? I only ask because the carbon 15 is an almost completely proprietary design, and nothing but the trigger group would interchange with a real AR15... I don't know if it would be listed as an AR15. Wouldn't this circumvent the law, if I used the DIAS in something other than an AR? As much as I hate my carbon, I'm stuck with it, but if this thing'd work and I can skate through a legal loophole, I'd do it. Besides I'd never endorse the knowing assembly of an illegal machine gun in a SHTF situation... I have a cellphone and 911 on speedial.
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the thing is tehre is no way to ciremvent the nfa its either a mg or it isnt so if i twould work in a varbon 15 and made it FA it would be a nfa controled device. if it didnt amke it into a mg WTF would u make one
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:47:15 AM EDT
Spell check, man!
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:49:30 AM EDT
I belive the Carbon 15 would legally be considered a AR 15.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:52:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2001 11:55:23 AM EDT by RYANG]
I figured... just curious if the thing would work. The loophole I would've exploited would be the ownership issue. Obviously if I make the thing a machinegun, then I'm breaking the law, no matter how I converted the weapon. But, if the carbon wasn't legally considered and AR, then at least I could legally own the two at the same time. I'd just make certain things easier, is all.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 12:00:43 PM EDT
see this here [img]http://members.home.net/gryphon223/ar15/fullauto/Dias_Pic2.jpg[/img] Now you can see how it works in the receiver to give you an idea, now to use a auto sear properly you need to be able to install M16 lower parts in your receiver, if you cannot then its not a good idea. And I do not promote the use of such a item in your gun if in fact it would be illegal.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 12:04:35 PM EDT
All the lower parts on a carbon 15 are the same as an AR15.Except the lower itself.Actuall just the pin spacing itself is diffrent.A carrier and bolt would work also.A regular stock [tele] will also work if you modify the lower.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 12:46:00 PM EDT
Would the sear work well in a armalite lower if such a addition where to be legal?
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 1:03:12 PM EDT
Hmmmmm....The title of this thread + your statements discouraging doing this + the statement"nether would I make one using these diagrams as follows" + all your previous posts trying to elicit information on conversions. Just makes me wonder?????[:\]
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 1:17:31 PM EDT
Please, I would never produce anything illegal... as I have mentioned in the past. And as for my wording on the topic its simple, you know alot of people wish they could have a fully automatic weapon and this is kind of a tease.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 1:17:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phoenix5: Hmmmmm....The title of this thread + your statements discouraging doing this + the statement"nether would I make one using these diagrams as follows" + all your previous posts trying to elicit information on conversions. Just makes me wonder?????[:\]
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And lets not forget his "take pictures and show me all your guns" post.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 1:20:39 PM EDT
Jerry since when does wanting to see all your guns make me something bad? I love guns, I love seing guns![:P] And I'm sure alot of people will agree with me that they love seing them as much as I do.[uzi]
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 2:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2001 2:32:08 PM EDT by Scarecrow]
[url]http://www.jrhenterprises.com/gunparts.html[/url] is Also selling the DIAS but for a tad bit more also selling M16 parts that go with it. Wonder if this is the same company? [img]http://www.tacticalinc.com/xfer/xarsear-1a1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.fulton-armory.com/LightningLink507.jpg[/img]
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