Arfcom Army...Time For It To Become A Real Entity...? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Arfcom Army...Time For It To Become A Real Entity...? (Page 2 of 7)

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:18:43 AM EDT

[#1]

Sounds good to me.

Just as long as I (as an agent of said company) can in no way possible be held legally or financially linked to or responsible for injuries or damage caused by any fellow "Goatboy Security Specialists", the company itself or any subsidiaries thereof.

ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:20:04 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I like the idea.

I think trying to reverse the 1903 Dick Bill would be more effective at restoring a true 'militia' to the citizens of this country, but considering the lack of participation in the political process by the sheeple combined with 'there ain't no way in hell we are giving away power' mentality in Washington, it would never happen.

So, back to the idea. I'm in. I already have a squad trained, equipped, and ready to go SIR!!

Reversing the Dick Act would mean the end of the National Guard, which as a result of the Dick Act became the recognized "militia", and I just don't see that happening.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:22:35 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
img164.imageshack.us/img164/2607/newownerofarfcom20fn.jpg

SteyrAUG
You have a better idea?

No, but you don't have to be EricTheHun to see where this one's going legally.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:24:29 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Sounds good to me.

Just as long as I (as an agent of said company) can in no way possible be held legally or financially linked to or responsible for injuries or damage caused by any fellow "Goatboy Security Specialists", the company itself or any subsidiaries thereof.

I think coming up with a way to insulate other "security specialists" and even the "parent organization" from the private contractors it uses should be fairly easy.

How many lawyers do we have? I can think of a dozen or so right now.

Even if the parent organizations exists soley for the purpose of maintaining the records of current operators that might get it done.

What would probably have to happen is these "operators" exist as essentially "free agents" and take security jobs as they can. In some cases these operators will even be employed by themselves, or their own businesses in cases of "emergency."

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:24:34 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
img164.imageshack.us/img164/2607/newownerofarfcom20fn.jpg

SteyrAUG
You have a better idea?
No, but you don't have to be EricTheHun to see where this one's going legally.

That's what I'm thinking too.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:25:29 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
img164.imageshack.us/img164/2607/newownerofarfcom20fn.jpg

SteyrAUG
You have a better idea?

No, but you don't have to be EricTheHun to see where this one's going legally.

Well if you would take the time to read it, I'm not suggesting the creation of Blackwater II.

I wen't into a little more detail so that maybe you would understand the concept in the post above.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:26:14 AM EDT

[#7]

'I'm in' tag.

But I'll tell ya something...

Short version: I'd almost bet a month's pay we gotta get an official license.

Long version: Back in my Ranch Rescue days, a couple of us were leaving - no make that running away - and were going to form a Security Co.

I worked on a ranch for a long while. I communicated with Cliff ICantrememberhislastname in Austin -he's in charge of TX security licenses - or some such position of authority.

I was trying to get a straight answer on 'when is an official security license required.' Such as, if a bunch of folks went to a guys property and helped him keep trespassers off, etc.

I wrote Cliff 2 letters, and never got a response.

I called and spoke to him twice, and after that he wouldn't answer (secretary screened) my calls.

I never got a straight answer.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:26:44 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds good to me.

Just as long as I (as an agent of said company) can in no way possible be held legally or financially linked to or responsible for injuries or damage caused by any fellow "Goatboy Security Specialists", the company itself or any subsidiaries thereof.

I think coming up with a way to insulate other "security specialists" and even the "parent organization" from the private contractors it uses should be fairly easy.

How many lawyers do we have? I can think of a dozen or so right now.

Even if the parent organizations exists soley for the purpose of maintaining the records of current operators that might get it done.

What would probably have to happen is these "operators" exist as essentially "free agents" and take security jobs as they can. In some cases these operators will even be employed by themselves, or their own businesses in cases of "emergency."

I think maybe not brandishing firearms openly in public while a nincompoop Mayor threatens to confiscate them in a disaster may be a bit easier.

They can't confiscate what they can't see.

I'm not poo-pooing your idea out of hand, I like the idea - I'm just thinking about it from the legal standpoint.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:28:04 AM EDT

[#9]

Originaly Posted by SteyrAUG:
I think coming up with a way to insulate other "security specialists" and even the "parent organization" from the private contractors it uses should be fairly easy.

WRONG!

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:33:32 AM EDT

[#10]

I'm in!

I think the idea has merit and would work. If this idea doesn't take off I may start a FL version. When it comes down to it, they are simply going to avoid corp. entanglements and go after the little guy. The LEO is just going to take a look at the ID and go to the next one. And if you have a semi professional looking uniform even better.

-DP

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:37:31 AM EDT

[#11]

there are plenty of places to bump fire underwater!

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:39:35 AM EDT

[#12]

Tagged

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:41:42 AM EDT

[#13]

Here's just a small example of what your getting into here...

J. 1. Effective on and after July 1, 1988, all persons and agencies newly licensed pursuant to Section 1750.1 et seq. of this title, or who renew an existing license, shall obtain and maintain liability coverage in accordance with the following minimum standards:

a. general liability insurance coverage for bodily injury, personal injury and property damage, with endorsements for personal injury including false arrest, libel, slander and invasion of privacy, or

b. a surety bond that allows persons to recover for actionable injuries, loss or damage as a result of the willful, or wrongful acts or omissions of the principal and protects this state, its agents, officers and employees from judgments against the principal or insured licensee, and is further conditioned upon the faithful and honest conduct of the principal's business.

2. Liability coverages and bonds outlined in this section shall be in the minimum amounts of One Hundred Thousand Dollars ($100,000.00) for agencies, Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000.00) for armed security guards and Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00) for security guards and self-employed private investigators who employ no other investigators.

3. Security agencies and investigative agencies shall ensure that all employees of said agencies have met the minimum liability coverages as prescribed in this section.

4. Insurance policies and bonds issued pursuant to this section shall not be modified or canceled unless ten (10) days' prior written notice is given to the Council. All persons and agencies insured or bonded pursuant to this section shall be insured or bonded by an insurance carrier or a surety company licensed in the state in which the insurance or bond was purchased, or in this state.

5. In lieu of the requirements of this subsection, the Council may accept a written statement from a corporation which is registered with the Oklahoma Secretary of State attesting that the corporation self-insures the general operation of business for the types of liability set out in paragraphs 1 and 2 of this subsection.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:44:07 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

And there's the rub.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:56:46 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

And there's the rub.

Yip Yip... Aint gonna happen just cause of that. There are to many people on here that cannnot be controlled as is. Much less giving them a license to say the are kind of something..

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:58:28 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

And there's the rub.

Yip Yip... Aint gonna happen just cause of that. There are to many people on here that cannnot be controlled as is. Much less giving them a license to say the are kind of something..

+1 will be vilianized like the minute men from AZ.

Posted: 9/10/2005 10:58:49 AM EDT

[#17]

Project Mayhem? Where's Tyler?

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:08:28 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds good to me.

Just as long as I (as an agent of said company) can in no way possible be held legally or financially linked to or responsible for injuries or damage caused by any fellow "Goatboy Security Specialists", the company itself or any subsidiaries thereof.

I think coming up with a way to insulate other "security specialists" and even the "parent organization" from the private contractors it uses should be fairly easy.

How many lawyers do we have? I can think of a dozen or so right now.

Even if the parent organizations exists soley for the purpose of maintaining the records of current operators that might get it done.

What would probably have to happen is these "operators" exist as essentially "free agents" and take security jobs as they can. In some cases these operators will even be employed by themselves, or their own businesses in cases of "emergency."
I think maybe not brandishing firearms openly in public while a nincompoop Mayor threatens to confiscate them in a disaster may be a bit easier.

They can't confiscate what they can't see.

I'm not poo-pooing your idea out of hand, I like the idea - I'm just thinking about it from the legal standpoint.

Just so there isn't any confusion.

I'm not suggesting an ID card so members can begin to conduct black ops the moment winds top out over 50 mph. I'm not talking about a "get out of jail free" card that will allow you to go shopping at Wal Mart with a AR-15 slung over your shoulder.

I'm talking about EXTREME examples such as in NOLA where they have gone door to door and searched homes and confiscated firearms.

I'm talking about something that just may prevent them from confiscating YOUR firearms for no other reason than they have declared an "emergency."

And I have news for you, in almost any situation where you will NEED your firearms they will probably declare an "emergency." Post hurricane/tornado/flood, civil unrest/riots, etc.

And in those situations, absurd as it is, something like an official looking ID badge and the explanation that you are "privately contracted" for security purposes may well mean the difference between being forcibly disarmed and left alone to go about your business.

I think most of us know which we'd prefer.

And we ALL know damn well that the Constitution SHOULD prevent such considerations. And most of us know it doesn't. I'm only advocating "whatever works" because any situation where they are going door to door and taking weapons really sucks.

Once the disaster is over you can then argue your Constitution case if you have the money and inclination.

What I'm telling you from experience is that a polyestor uniform from Propper and a ID badge will get you a pass in most cases. A plausible I"m on a mission from Arfcom" cover story doesn't hurt either.

Hopefully NONE OF US would ever need such a thing.

But few of us really believed they would actually go door to door and disarm people who are fending for themselves. We now know, anything can happen.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:09:23 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Originaly Posted by SteyrAUG:
I think coming up with a way to insulate other "security specialists" and even the "parent organization" from the private contractors it uses should be fairly easy.

WRONG!

I can play this game too.

NO. You're wrong.

Furthermore, I know you are but what am I?

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:11:39 AM EDT

[#20]

All joking aside I think its a good idea in these uncertain times.

I'm for it

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:15:29 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Here's just a small example of what your getting into here...

Oklahoma Security Guard and Private Investigator Act

Oklahoma Statutes
Cite As: 59 O.S. § 1750.5 (OSCN 1998)

Yeah, those requirements are for STATE LICENSED Oklahoma Security Guard and Private Investigators.

They have NONTHING to do with PRIVATE CONTRACTORS. We aren't talking about "D" and "G" licenses here.

Also do you have ANY IDEA how fucking easy it is to get a "D" license? You can if you want but they are pretty fucking useless, so is a "G" for that matter.

You'd be better of with a basic carry permit and being a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:19:13 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

And there's the rub.

Yip Yip... Aint gonna happen just cause of that. There are to many people on here that cannnot be controlled as is. Much less giving them a license to say the are kind of something..

NOBODY IS GRANTING LICENSE.

Providing ID badges and keeping a database of members DOES NOT GRANT LICENSE.

You are a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR aka FREE AGENT who secures SECURITY CONTRACTS on his own.

Sometimes you just may HIRE YOURSELF.

Some of you guys are just missing the entire concept.

We aren't creating Blackwater II.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:24:49 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

And there's the rub.

Yip Yip... Aint gonna happen just cause of that. There are to many people on here that cannnot be controlled as is. Much less giving them a license to say the are kind of something..

NOBODY IS GRANTING LICENSE.

Providing ID badges and keeping a database of members DOES NOT GRANT LICENSE.

You are a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR aka FREE AGENT who secures SECURITY CONTRACTS on his own.

Sometimes you just may HIRE YOURSELF.

Some of you guys are just missing the entire concept.

We aren't creating Blackwater II.

What you fail to comprehend here is that you are still acting in the roll of a SECURITY CONTRACTOR, which in eveery state requires that you and the company that you work for are licensed. It does not matter if you are a sub contractor to the company, that company still has to be licensed as does the individual. Unless you work retail security then it's different. The second you call yourself a security contractor, you have to have that little license from the state.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:30:03 AM EDT

[#24]

I know this is a bad time to ask, but how do you tag a page and retrieve that tag?

You guys have something going and I would like to look further into it

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:43:06 AM EDT

[#25]

Yeah, $25 for a badge that wouldnt allow me access to the Pit o' Balls, at the local Chuck E Cheese.

Do we get a theme song everytime we roll up on mother nature inflicted areas?
I was thinking about "Deliverance" by Opeth, either that or the little rap that the "Nerds" did in defiance of motion 13.

Oh yeah, I would also like my membership dues to provide me with a somewhat new pair of Hi-Teks, a gallon of dip for my flea ridden dog, and some outdated HUSTLERS, like mid 80s,when girls still had bush, I like that.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:45:44 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ETA: And there needs to be a way to ensure this quasi-security company in no way shape or form can be construed by the powers that be to constitute a front group for any organized "militia", paramilitary group or "domestic terrorist cell".

And there's the rub.

Yip Yip... Aint gonna happen just cause of that. There are to many people on here that cannnot be controlled as is. Much less giving them a license to say the are kind of something..

NOBODY IS GRANTING LICENSE.

Providing ID badges and keeping a database of members DOES NOT GRANT LICENSE.

You are a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR aka FREE AGENT who secures SECURITY CONTRACTS on his own.

Sometimes you just may HIRE YOURSELF.

Some of you guys are just missing the entire concept.

We aren't creating Blackwater II.

What you fail to comprehend here is that you are still acting in the roll of a SECURITY CONTRACTOR, which in eveery state requires that you and the company that you work for are licensed. It does not matter if you are a sub contractor to the company, that company still has to be licensed as does the individual. Unless you work retail security then it's different. The second you call yourself a security contractor, you have to have that little license from the state.

Actually that is NOT entirely true.

Being a "security contractor" and being a "private contractor who is hired to provide some security capacity" are not necessarily the same thing.

Call yourself an official "house sitter" if that makes you happy.

And you are still missing the larger picture.

In a time of crisis NOBODY is gonna run a credit check on you.

ID and a cover story with the goal to KEEP YOUR PROPERTY.

So long as you don't turn into Canteen Boy and don't try and secure the local Piggy Wiggly from looters you are gonna be fine.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:46:50 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I know this is a bad time to ask, but how do you tag a page and retrieve that tag?

You guys have something going and I would like to look further into it

Well you just did.

Now all you have to do is become a Team Member so you can hit "My Active Topics."

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:48:06 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Yeah, $25 for a badge that wouldnt allow me access to the Pit o' Balls, at the local Chuck E Cheese.

Do we get a theme song everytime we roll up on mother nature inflicted areas?
I was thinking about "Deliverance" by Opeth, either that or the little rap that the "Nerds" did in defiance of motion 13.

Oh yeah, I would also like my membership dues to provide me with a somewhat new pair of Hi-Teks, a gallon of dip for my flea ridden dog, and some outdated HUSTLERS, like mid 80s,when girls still had bush, I like that.

With that attitude you are never gonna survive the Arfcom selection process.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:49:22 AM EDT

[#29]

I would be interested. I would need to read up on the specific laws regarding "private contractors." You seem to know alot more about this than us.

For instance, are private contrators allowed to carry in NOLA?

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:50:29 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Yeah, $25 for a badge that wouldnt allow me access to the Pit o' Balls, at the local Chuck E Cheese.

Do we get a theme song everytime we roll up on mother nature inflicted areas?
I was thinking about "Deliverance" by Opeth, either that or the little rap that the "Nerds" did in defiance of motion 13.

Oh yeah, I would also like my membership dues to provide me with a somewhat new pair of Hi-Teks, a gallon of dip for my flea ridden dog, and some outdated HUSTLERS, like mid 80s,when girls still had bush, I like that.

With that attitude you are never gonna survive the Arfcom selection process.

What tha??? I thought that would ensure it.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:55:31 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know this is a bad time to ask, but how do you tag a page and retrieve that tag?

You guys have something going and I would like to look further into it

Well you just did.

Now all you have to do is become a Team Member so you can hit "My Active Topics."

Ah....enlightening. Keep me posted on what you plan on doing. You think getting this together helps my chances of getting a CCW too!!!

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:58:16 AM EDT

[#32]

Posted: 9/10/2005 12:10:11 PM EDT

[#33]

So...when can we start?

Posted: 9/10/2005 12:21:17 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
We aren't creating Blackwater II.

Maybe we should call the organization "Greywater"

Or maybe "O'Dwyer Contracting"

Posted: 9/10/2005 12:29:04 PM EDT

[#35]

I'm in. Give me some ammo and some body armor and 2k$ a month and I'm in.

I'll even provide the looter shooter.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:09:14 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I would be interested. I would need to read up on the specific laws regarding "private contractors." You seem to know alot more about this than us.

For instance, are private contrators allowed to carry in NOLA?

As a "private contractor", especially in this instance, is an unlicensed individual you would need to a carry permit to be lawfully armed in most states when you are NOT on your own private property. You may also be armed on the property of owners who give their permission for you to be armed.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:09:57 PM EDT

[#37]

www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/

Posting the above link as it will take me a while to read through everything - maybe some one else has some time also...

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:17:58 PM EDT

[#38]

The ATF is gonna love this. Maybe we should start meeting up with those in our respective areas? Good idea SteyrAUG.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:19:58 PM EDT

[#39]

Hmmm... Good idea. Complicated, but workable.

If we solve all the details, I'm in.

ARFCOM Security and Civil Defense Corporation.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:31:02 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
The ATF is gonna love this. Maybe we should start meeting up with those in our respective areas? Good idea SteyrAUG.

Now that's some funny shit.

I was interviewed by 2 ATF agents from McAllen, TX a few years ago (because of that DA Nethercott).

I asked a few questions regarding working security and licenses.

One of the agent's response was 'you need to do it right and get a license.'

And that led me to contact Cliff Whateverhisnamewas in Austin (as above).

Frankly, I think it's a slippery slope.

.Gov wants to license the fuck out of you, in the hopes of not allowing whackos to participate. Not to mention the funds.

.Gov just doesn't trust the 'common folk' can do this job without their approved training, licensing, etc.

Hell I even paid the cash for a name - Environmental and Protective Services. You probably can look it up.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:43:09 PM EDT

[#41]

I think it would just be easier, and less likely to garner unwanted attention, to form local 'neighborhood watches.' The neighborhood could be as big as a state, or larger.

I suggested this here about 2 years ago, and got no takers. Local folks get together and build a disaster plan.

It might be a BO convoy to somewhere, a rally point, etc. Then put in motion the actions necessary to ensure survival.

ARFCOM folks have survival weekends in other parts of the U.S., why can't we have one here in TX - say in Sam Houston forest (CHL is legal there).

IM or email if this seems appealing.

I'm not looking to fight the government. I'm looking to stay alive, regardless the natural disaster.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:46:18 PM EDT

[#42]

do we get full dental?

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:57:30 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
do we get full dental?

After 6 months.

Posted: 9/10/2005 1:59:03 PM EDT

[#44]

What, nobody thinks this is a good idea? (Big neighborhood watch)

Don't make me link you to the RR photo of me that I can't get Foote to remove...

Posted: 9/10/2005 2:01:14 PM EDT

[#45]

Speaking of IDs, a number of years ago, I got through a Police line by showing the LEO my Z-Card(Merchant Mariners Document)

The Local team had won the Stanley Cup or something and traffic into town was being diverted.

The cop in question started the conversation by smarting off at me. (Hey, Bub!) I answered by keeping my cool and telling him politely that I would address him as 'Officer' as long as he addressed me civilly and handed him my Z-card.

I explained in a nice way that I wasn't some frothing at the mouth rabid sports fan, but a simple Merchant Mariner headed home after a long trip and wanting to see my family.

He actually apologized somewhat and radioed ahead and I got home without a long, ardous detour.

He even actually addressed me as 'Captain'!

The old Z-Card trick.

Posted: 9/10/2005 2:24:56 PM EDT

[#46]

I'm in.
Tag

Posted: 9/10/2005 2:45:43 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
I'm in.
Tag

+1

Posted: 9/10/2005 2:46:15 PM EDT

[#48]

"Goatboy Security Specialists" . "we're from arfcom and we're here to help......ourselves to your food"

so is Sgtar15 and his dolls going to be the quick reaction force?

Posted: 9/10/2005 2:47:52 PM EDT

[#49]

Does that 'thing' kneeling with the moustache have Gophers?

Gophers = boobs that go for the waist = gravity tits.

Posted: 9/10/2005 3:12:07 PM EDT

[#50]

As stated on one of the previous post, the state by state regs would be very hard if not impossible to meet. For example: CT Statutes

There is that whole performance bond and $300,000 Libility Insurnace thing too.

Other than that... I'm in !!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Arfcom Army...Time For It To Become A Real Entity...? (Page 2 of 7)

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