Quoted: Quoted: Looks like when the shit hits the fan............shotguns rule Sure does look that way, the shotgun invokes a certain fear that you will likely be hit, and it won't be just a flesh wound. Thugs tend to keep out of thier range, and for good reason, they would get thier face or chest blown off. Sucking chest wound anyone?

Folks, I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but I think you will find that the main reason the shotgun is being seen in and around NO is because they hunt a lot of waterfowl around there. Meaning that lots of hunters own a 12 guage pump and have a couple of boxes of ammo handy. I don't know if deer regulations in certain areas around NO limit deer hunting to buckshot only (not uncommon...) but that would add to the utility of the shotgun as a hunting weapon.

I don't think we are seeing people toting a carefully chosen SHTF weapon. I believe what we are seeing is that the hunting guns are being pressed into service as defensive pieces. Folks are just grabbing what they have and using it however they can. The only alternative to the shotgun that many people have is a bolt action rifle, hardly ideal in a situation where you can encounter a gang of looters.

Don't read too much into the sighting of shotguns. In a scenario of widespread destruction and social breakdown, you are more likely going to see one of the millions upon millions of 870 shotguns pulled out of the closet and used as a defensive weapon than you are something like a Bushmaster.

Huge?  No, but she's just... perfect.  My kinda gal!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like when the shit hits the fan............shotguns rule Sure does look that way, the shotgun invokes a certain fear that you will likely be hit, and it won't be just a flesh wound. Thugs tend to keep out of thier range, and for good reason, they would get thier face or chest blown off. Sucking chest wound anyone? Folks, I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but I think you will find that the main reason the shotgun is being seen in and around NO is because they hunt a lot of waterfowl around there. Meaning that lots of hunters own a 12 guage pump and have a couple of boxes of ammo handy. I don't know if deer regulations in certain areas around NO limit deer hunting to buckshot only (not uncommon...) but that would add to the utility of the shotgun as a hunting weapon. I don't think we are seeing people toting a carefully chosen SHTF weapon. I believe what we are seeing is that the hunting guns are being pressed into service as defensive pieces. Folks are just grabbing what they have and using it however they can. The only alternative to the shotgun that many people have is a bolt action rifle, hardly ideal in a situation where you can encounter a gang of looters. Don't read too much into the sighting of shotguns. In a scenario of widespread destruction and social breakdown, you are more likely going to see one of the millions upon millions of 870 shotguns pulled out of the closet and used as a defensive weapon than you are something like a Bushmaster.

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=123&t=386774

Quoted: graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/09/01/national/01loot.l.jpg Huge?  No, but she's just... perfect.  My kinda gal!

Yessssh.................
As long as she brushed her teeth................. I'd hit round the clock............

Home/Land Security at it's finest.

I would carry a shotgun.

The ARs and the sniper rifles would be out of sight. Some of you guys look at the situation as a chance to show off; that isn't at all smart. For one thing, the police and federal troops might see you as a threat if you had as much firepower as they did. And it is 100 degrees, you would look silly in your combat gear.

Quoted: I think the woman in the last pic needs to learn a little about wepaons handle and muzzle discipline!!!

No, she has it trained on the cameraman's nuts.  You just can't trust those bastrards.

Quoted:

He's got a little summin-summin tucked in his belt there, too.  

It's amazing that the Left sees the looters as scavenging to survive while they view these people as the real threat to society...

Hell, I've been patrolling theperimeter at night just in case some of our imports ("evacuees") decides to come snooping around.  I keep diesel in the backhoe, too, so I don't have to rely on a friend who can keep a secret.

Quoted: ...thanks for the story Eric_Mayer. Do you know if it was the firefighters that shot the looters or were they accompanied by police/NG?

Firefighters shot them...

Eric  

I would be carring my SHTF weapons, because that is what I would be in if i was down there defending my home. Vepr-K 7.62x39 and 1911, along with body armor, I might be wearing cammo, I might be wearing jeans, but the body armor and weapons would not change.  I don't give a rats @ss about what the police would think about my weapon selection. I would also stash some other weapons aound my place, winchester defender pump gun and a FAL.  What kind of POS pawn shop would let a guy guard it with a sword, give him one of the guns.

From the other thread:

Quoted: An excerpt from a recent NYT story pasted here: Some frightened homeowners took security into their own hands. John Carolan was sitting on his porch in the thick, humid darkness just before midnight Tuesday when three or four young men, one with a knife and another with a machete, stopped in front of his fence and pointed to the generator humming in the front yard, he said. One said, "We want that generator," he recalled. "I fired a couple of rounds over their heads with a .357 Magnum," Mr. Carolan recounted Wednesday. "They scattered." He smiled and added, "You've heard of law west of the Pecos. This is law west of Canal Street."

Dumbass. He should have shot all three of them dead.

Armed thugs brazenly confronting people demanding their property just need a killun'.

They probably weren't deterred and instead just preyed on others instead. And they COULD have returned, with more numbers and more firepower.

He really should have shot them.

Quoted: From the other thread: Quoted: An excerpt from a recent NYT story pasted here: Some frightened homeowners took security into their own hands. John Carolan was sitting on his porch in the thick, humid darkness just before midnight Tuesday when three or four young men, one with a knife and another with a machete, stopped in front of his fence and pointed to the generator humming in the front yard, he said. One said, "We want that generator," he recalled. "I fired a couple of rounds over their heads with a .357 Magnum," Mr. Carolan recounted Wednesday. "They scattered." He smiled and added, "You've heard of law west of the Pecos. This is law west of Canal Street." Dumbass. He should have shot all three of them dead. Armed thugs brazenly confronting people demanding their property just need a killun'. They probably weren't deterred and instead just preyed on others instead. And they COULD have returned, with more numbers and more firepower. He really should have shot them.

More likely the Times reporter simply made the story up...

A true coon-ass would have at least winged 'em.

Quoted: From the other thread: Quoted: An excerpt from a recent NYT story pasted here: Some frightened homeowners took security into their own hands. John Carolan was sitting on his porch in the thick, humid darkness just before midnight Tuesday when three or four young men, one with a knife and another with a machete, stopped in front of his fence and pointed to the generator humming in the front yard, he said. One said, "We want that generator," he recalled. "I fired a couple of rounds over their heads with a .357 Magnum," Mr. Carolan recounted Wednesday. "They scattered." He smiled and added, "You've heard of law west of the Pecos. This is law west of Canal Street." Dumbass. He should have shot all three of them dead. Armed thugs brazenly confronting people demanding their property just need a killun'. They probably weren't deterred and instead just preyed on others instead. And they COULD have returned, with more numbers and more firepower. He really should have shot them.

Not worth shooting someone over a generator.  He could always get another one.  Is it really worth taking a precious human life just to have electricity?  

They kill him for the generator, they're merely trying to survive.  He kills them to protect it and he's a murdering racist.

i sense the irony - the facetious tone in your post.  wonder what the take would be on it after the fact if you ice some looter?

(edited to add:  i had to look at her picture twice to see that she was carrying a weapon!)

Quoted: I would carry a shotgun. The ARs and the sniper rifles would be out of sight. Some of you guys look at the situation as a chance to show off; that isn't at all smart. For one thing, the police and federal troops might see you as a threat if you had as much firepower as they did. And it is 100 degrees, you would look silly in your combat gear.

Or they might take it from you...........

^^^


My favorite pic out of this mess so far.  

tag

Quoted: Not worth shooting someone over a generator.  He could always get another one.  Is it really worth taking a precious human life just to have electricity?   They kill him for the generator, they're merely trying to survive.  He kills them to protect it and he's a murdering racist.

In those conditions, if you shoot a looter, just drag his body out into the middle of the street and let him float away, the dogs and gators will take care of the problem.

The generator owner wouldn't be killing over the generator, he'd be killing due to the threat of armed violence initiated by openly armed individuals making an imperative demand accompanied by the implied threat of deadly force.

The NOPD and National Guard are currently seizing these good folks' guns.

www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/print077896.html

Orleans Breaking News

Thursday, September 08, 2005

Makeshift militia patrols Algiers neighborhood
Armed to the teeth, but they haven't fired a shot

By Susan Langenhennig
West Bank bureau

Just after dusk on Tuesday night, with the rumble of helicopters and airplanes still overhead, Gareth Stubbs took his spot in a rocking chair on the balcony of an Algiers Point house, a shotgun, bottle of bug spray and a can of Pringles at his feet.

It was night No. 9 of his vigil, the balcony turned into a makeshift watch tower, with five borrowed shotguns, a pistol, a flare gun, an old AK-47 and loads of ammunition strategically placed next to the blankets and pillows where Stubbs, Vinnie Pervel and Gregg Harris have slept every night since Hurricane Katrina slammed into Southeast Louisiana.

In the bedroom off the balcony, its lace curtains blowing through the open windows, Pervel's 74-year-old mother pulled her rosary from her pocket, a shotgun resting near the antique cherry wood bed and the .38-caliber pistol her son gave her nearby. "Oh dear, what would Father John think," Jennie Pervel laughed as she fingered the beads.

Vinnie Pervel and Harris, who own the 1871 Victorian house on Pelican Street, rigged a car battery to two floodlights and aimed them into the deserted road below. With the floodlights off, the home's gas lanterns formed golden hallows on the porch, the only illumination other than the periodic sweep of searchlights from the military helicopters buzzing overhead.

It's been a terrifying nine days for the four, scrambling for food, water and gasoline for their generator and an arsenal of weapons they feared they would need if complete lawlessness broke out in the historic neighborhood of renovated 19th century homes. The neighborhood having survived the storm without flood damage, Pervel and Harris, both former presidents of the Algiers Point Association, worried that looters and others seeking high ground would invade the community.

Yet they have not had to fire a shot.

And that's a good thing for them. They were not sure if any of the borrowed weapons even worked.

But their fears were based on actual experiences. The day after the hurricane, Pervel was carjacked as he tried to check on his other properties in the neighborhood. Two guys clubbed him on the head with a sledgehammer, grabbed his keys and stole his van, which he had filled with hurricane supplies, a full tank of fuel and his credit cards.

The next afternoon, as Pervel and his mother, Harris and Stubbs stood on their porch, a gunfight between armed neighbors and "looters" erupted on the corner of Pelican and Valette streets, half a block away. The neighbors, whom Pervel would not identify, shot two of the men. "We screamed to Mrs. P., 'Hit the deck,' and she did," Harris said.

"We just couldn't comprehend it, a gun battle in front of your house," said Stubbs, a native of Wales, who lives across the street from Pervel and Harris but has stayed since the storm with them at their "Fort Pelican." "You would walk outside, and your knees were wobbly and your lips would go dry."

After the violence, the men decided they needed protection. Other residents who had stayed during the storm were armed and taking turns checking on neighbors, some of them elderly, who remained in their houses. It was decided that everyone would keep an eye on his block, sharing essential supplies. Pervel, Harris and Stubbs joined them, keeping watch on Pelican and nearby streets.

"There's about 20 or 30 guys in addition to us. We know all of them and where they are," Harris said. "People armed themselves so quickly, rallying together. I think it's why the neighborhood survived."

But Pervel, Harris and Stubbs had a problem. They were without weapons other than a 40-year-old shotgun with no shells. Pervel, who had stayed in contact with many evacuated neighbors through the NOLA.com Web site and by his still-working telephone, got permission from residents to retrieve their guns and supplies from nearby houses.

"I never thought I'd be going into my neighbor's house and taking their guns. We wrote down what gun came from what house so we can return them when they get back," he said.

One neighbor used his dog, T-Bone, as a lookout, chaining him at night to a fire hydrant on a corner. The dog barked if anyone approached, Stubbs said.

The first few nights after the hurricane, Stubbs said they heard gunfire popping all around and saw people walking with flashlights through the streets. A tree had fallen at their corner, spilling a recycling bin full of cans. At the sound of a can rustling, the balcony watch group would flip the switch to the car battery, flooding the street in light, blinding whoever was below.

"We angled the lights so they wouldn't see us on the balcony," said Stubbs, rocking in the chair, smoking a cigarette.
With the area dry and mostly evacuated, they saw only one New Orleans police officer in the first four days after the storm.

"We kept hearing on the radio, 'The military is coming, the military is coming, troops on the ground,' and we kept thinking, 'Where are they?'" Stubbs said. "We really felt alone."

During the day, Pervel's phone rang constantly, with residents calling from Texas, Mississippi, Florida, asking him to check on their homes, feed their pets. The men also made daily visits to deliver food and water to elderly neighbors. "I asked this one 84-year-old lady if she'd eaten, and she told me all she had was a can of Vienna sausages," Harris said. "I wanted to cry when I heard that."

By Tuesday, they'd checked on human beings as well scores of cats and dogs, a parrot, pet rats, two mice and a guinea pig.

"There are several guys in the neighborhood. They had this little task force. They knew everyone who stayed and where we were," said a resident who would only give her first name, Betty. "If it hadn't been to all those guys, making a statement to the looters, I don't know what would have happened.

"Our great fear was fire. If one started, it would have spread so quickly throughout the neighborhood," she said. On Tuesday, she made rounds through the neighborhood, feeding cats and dogs left stranded on the streets.

By Sunday night, tension in the neighborhood had started to release, Harris and Stubbs said, as more and more military vehicles were spotted patrolling the streets. "We really all breathed for the first time when we saw an armored personnel carrier come through," Harris said.

On Tuesday night, two Humvees crept down the road, flashing their lights at the balcony as Pervel lay down on his blanket, removed his glasses and rubbed his eyes. With the military on patrol, maybe the balcony watch group could finally get some sleep.

Susan Langenhennig may be reached at [email protected]