Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:39:02 AM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:



Probably.

Honestly, I can't wait. Then maybe they'll leave my pits alone.


my brothers college roommate bought one of those when they graduated as Pit Bulls were banned by his homeowners association.

Everybody pretty much calls it an APBT. He's had complaints for owning a banned dog many times from the H.A. even though it's not... And they are BIG, strong dogs too.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:41:38 AM EDT
[#2]

Pitbulls have been the subject of the same sort of fearmongering as an AK47.. I mean, clearly only gangsters, thugs, and criminals have AK47s, right?

No?

But, you mean, popular opinion and sensationalist news stories LIED to me? That sometimes the killer evil pitbull that mauled someone was actually a lab, and that the assault rifle was actually a mini-14?

Dogs are dogs. You have to be careful no matter what, and it becomes more important with dogs of uncertain lineage. Pitbulls were originally bred as dog fighting dogs. This means two things... One, they originally had incredibly tightly controlled lines as only champions would be bred out. Two, they were bred to fight DOGS, not people. They weren't guard dogs or attack dogs, but FIGHTING dogs. First bulls (hence the name), then other dogs.

Part of dog fighting (which was, and is, a terrible thing) is having a well trained, and easily handled dog. If you raised a game, strong dog for combat would YOU want to get into the ring with two of them to pull them apart? Of course not. Ergo, pit dogs were bred to be exceedingly loving towards humans, and while they may be strong-willed and game, they're not trained to attack another person.

Would I leave my pitbull, who's the most lovign dog I've ever known (somehwat biased on that) alone with a child? Yes, absolutely. I know my dog's line, and I know how my dog was raised.  I have no fear that my dog won't attack a human being. Would I leave my dog alone in a room with a cat? Never. His preydrive is way out of line for that, and I know it.

www.badrap.org

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:43:51 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:


Do you think you could tell the difference between a pit bull and a St. Bernard with any degree of accuracy?


that's got nothing to do with the stats and is an argument that is so full of ridiculiousness (yea I made that up) that you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to use it.



Those are the divisions in the stats.


a simple fact of life is that when it comes to dogs with bad behavior any muscular built dog with big head becomes a pit bull.


I don't think you really have the evidence to prove that. It doesn't match with my experience and the pictures that I have seen, when pictures of the offending dogs were available. As I recall the latest incident in San Francisco, as one example, the owner described them as pit bulls.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:44:42 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Pitbulls have been the subject of the same sort of fearmongering as an AK47.. I mean, clearly only gangsters, thugs, and criminals have AK47s, right?

No?


wellllll............................
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Those are the divisions in the stats.



which is exactly the problem. People don't know the difference between a APBT, Stafford, hell rednoses get called pitbulls 50%of the time.

And all the evidence you need to to look at the reports of it.. For instance when that girl got mauled in the SF appt building the dogs were pits on the news, they weren't. I watch TV and there's a pit bull attack with a picture of a rottie. Anytime a dog bites somebody it won't be reported.. if a big dog that looks at all like a PBT it's a pit bull attack.

You say it doesn't match what you've seen... can you distinguish the dogs apart just on looks alone? I would bet money the answer is no


EDIT: I suck at the quote feature.. hang on a sec..

Nevermind you can figure out what's supposed to be where
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:24:24 AM EDT
[#6]
When I firts posted, I expected exactly the responses I have rec'd....exactly.  Those of you who continue to defend the breed and your ownership of them continue to post the same tired arguement.  You compare them to firearms, you claim all dogs bite, you claim that it is the moronic owners and the poor breeding that leads to bad dogs.  The core issue has not changed one damn bit:  American kids keep being killed by pit bull dogs...or whatever you choose to call them, at a frightening rate.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:27:28 AM EDT
[#7]

You wanted the truth, didn't you?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 11:51:27 AM EDT
[#8]
no he wanted people to agree with him that they are the devil's breed.... Designed by satan himself to eat babies.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:22:43 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
The last list I saw showed the Dalmation as the number one biting dog in the country followed closely by the Lab and Golden Retriever.



The government stats show that pit bulls account for about half of all deaths.



And if you (wolfman) had read the text to go along with those statistics, you would know that they basically say "Well, shucks, we pretty much called anything that looks kinda like a Pit Bull or something a Pit Bull mighta knocked up a "pit bull type dog". Don't quote that idiotic stat sheet unless you read the text.

GT



You can find the full text of one of the reports here: www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf and another here; www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm

The latter document lists the following breeds as being the leaders:
Pit bull type dogs
Rottweiler
German Shepherd
Husky
Malamute
Doberman Pinscher
Chow Chow
Great Dane
St. Bernard
Akita

I will grant you that a dog's lineage is nearly always in question, and news reports can be inaccurate. However, the difference between these varieties of dogs is easily distinguishable. I don't think too many people are going to confuse something from the Great Dane line with something from the pit bull line.



Ok dude, if you are gonna not only tie the knot and put the noose around your neck, I will go ahead and oblige you by pulling the lever.

The exact text, which you have obviously not read, reads verbatim:

the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy
than those by other breeds, our methods may
have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities
by breed.


Third, because identification of a dog’s breed
may be subjective (even experts may disagree on the
breed of a particular dog), DBRF may be differentially
ascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.


Thanks for playing, come again soon.

See that red stuff. Biased. Both on the CDC part (although they at least admit that their stats are probably flawed) and on your part. Your debate fu is weak Maynard. Read that report (it's even printed in english) and come back when you have a clue.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:35:30 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Firearm… leave it loaded on your front porch all day. Even if someone walks by it will not shoot them.


Pitbull… leave it on your front porch all day. If someone walks by it will attack them if IT decides to.


Pitbulls & Firearms are NOT the same thing. One is capable of self motivated action.


ANdy



What he said.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:41:19 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Firearm… leave it loaded on your front porch all day. Even if someone walks by it will not shoot them.


Pitbull… leave it on your front porch all day. If someone walks by it will attack them if IT decides to.


Pitbulls & Firearms are NOT the same thing. One is capable of self motivated action.


ANdy





What he said.



No. Fucking. Duh.

Dog and gun, not the same thing. Although the bans seem to work on the same basis. It looks like an evil soul stealing assault rifle! We must ban it! Every shooting is obviously an assault rifle! No other guns are as vicious!

The media sucks. Some APBT owners suck. I happen to like mine. I figure if it was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt, it's good enough for me.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:43:31 PM EDT
[#12]
To me the only good Pit is a dead Pit.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:43:38 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
The last list I saw showed the Dalmation as the number one biting dog in the country followed closely by the Lab and Golden Retriever.



Is that a straight count or a per capita.  Lab is the most popular breed and Golden is in the top 4 in the US.  Straight numbers aren't statistically significant.  
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:46:14 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
To me the only good Pit is a dead Pit.



Howsabout you stay outta my yard and away from my dogs. Then I don't have to swap shots or dig a hole? I'll keep em in my yard, you stay out. Every one is happy.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:50:08 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
To me the only good Pit is a dead Pit.



Howsabout you stay outta my yard and away from my dogs. Then I don't have to swap shots or dig a hole? I'll keep em in my yard, you stay out. Every one is happy.



That's sweet but the Pit bite calls I've been on have all been someone elses Pit on the loose. Which of course NEVER bit anyone before.

But they do make a neat flopping around dance when they get hit by 230 gr.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:54:17 PM EDT
[#16]
My brother has a pitbull. Great dog. While I was housekeeping for him he crawled up on my chest and almost suffocated me...He's sort of fat.

Yep, PB's are DEADLY!

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:57:16 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
To me the only good Pit is a dead Pit.



Howsabout you stay outta my yard and away from my dogs. Then I don't have to swap shots or dig a hole? I'll keep em in my yard, you stay out. Every one is happy.



That's sweet but the Pit bite calls I've been on have all been someone elses Pit on the loose. Which of course NEVER bit anyone before.

But they do make a neat flopping around dance when they get hit by 230 gr.



They also soak up the 9mm.

I don't have kids. I want my dogs to go after people who come into my yard. That's what dogs are. An additional layer of defense.

My problem is the assholes that spout off " If I find out someone has a Pit, I'm going over to kill it."

If you are shooting my dog in my yard, you obviously intend to harm me as well. If you are willing to use deadly force to get to me, I can and will use deadly force to prevent that.

Stay outta my yard, and we have no problems. Pretty simple if you ask me.

GT
and by the way, if one of my dogs so much as snaps at someone inappropriately, I will have shot the dog, long before the report takers (I mean cops) manage to show up.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 1:48:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 1:56:19 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
As far as dogs "flopping around on the ground" after being shot, big tough talk like that really rubs me wrong.

If you gotta do a job, then do it.

Running around gloating about how you love to shoot dogs is pretty fucking sad.

Stay away from my neighborhood, sicko.



I don't love to shoot dogs. You just have to every now and then.


And of course you follow it up with the coup de grace.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 2:18:20 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
When I firts posted, I expected exactly the responses I have rec'd....exactly.  Those of you who continue to defend the breed and your ownership of them continue to post the same tired arguement.  You compare them to firearms, you claim all dogs bite, you claim that it is the moronic owners and the poor breeding that leads to bad dogs.  The core issue has not changed one damn bit:  American kids keep being killed by pit bull dogs...or whatever you choose to call them, at a frightening rate.





Interesting, we keep getting the same tired counter-argument from you and your ilk. When you first posted, I expected exactly the arguments and responses that I received....exactly. You guys read from the same talking points almost verbatim every time.


So what's your solution? Ban the breed and exterminate it completely? Do you honestly think the drug dealers, ghetto tough guys, thugs, and idiots that have driven the breed into the ground won't move on to another, even more powerful breed such as the Presa Canario et al? What will you say when "American kids keep being killed" by Presa Canarios?

Oh wait.....   I know. You'll just call the Presa Canarios "pit bulls" and be done with it so your fragile worldview isn't shattered into pieces...      "or whatever you choose to call them"   Even though the Presa Canario is nothing like an American Pit Bull Terrier you'll still call it a pit.....


Here's a solution! Instead of outright banning the American Pit Bull Terrier, let's just regulate it out of existence. We can pass strict regulations regarding the control, housing arrangements, care, and feeding of animals of the breed, establish owner liability and require owners to purchase a high-limit insurance policy at exorbitant prices.

Oh crap, that won't work either. The people responsible for the negative image of the pit bull through their negligence are just that: negligent. They won't bother to carry the insurance policy or follow the regulations. The thugs et al who have continually fucked up don't give a damn about personal responsibility or laws in the first place. I don't think this solution will work either.






When I firts posted, I expected exactly the responses I have rec'd....exactly


By the way, I always get such a big kick out of the above type of statement when I see it in an intarweb debate. Makes me snicker everytime.....   "you have fallen for my diabolical scheme and posted exactly the responses I knew you would!!"
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 2:30:26 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As far as dogs "flopping around on the ground" after being shot, big tough talk like that really rubs me wrong.

If you gotta do a job, then do it.

Running around gloating about how you love to shoot dogs is pretty fucking sad.

Stay away from my neighborhood, sicko.



I don't love to shoot dogs. You just have to every now and then.


And of course you follow it up with the coup de grace.





Well good. And for the record, I welcome and encourage anyone to shoot and kill an APBT (or any other dog) that attacks people.

Back in a different time when people took personal responsiblity for their animals any APBT that displayed aggression towards humans was ruthlessly culled. Actions like that tend to breed human-aggressive traits out of a breed, ya know? Kill off the losers and the rest of the breed gets a cleaner gene pool.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 2:30:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 3:00:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 3:19:17 PM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:


Wasting your time arguing with them… you can't explain the concept of ANIMATE and INANIMATE things to some people.

My wifes best friend breeds pit's… they are generally good dogs, show dogs too. BUT… she keeps a baseball bat in the kitchen. When I asked he why she said it was in case one of the dogs turned, which one did one day. He was playing with her two kids , playing fetch, when he decided HE wanted to play rough and jumped up and bit her son on the hand rather than wait for the ball to be thrown. She had to beat the dog unconncious to get him to let go. THAT is the danger with Pit's, they bite hard and WILL NOT let go. She still breeds Pits and swears by them.


ANdy



My pit bulls are pretty much the friendliest dogs you might meet. They are crap as watch dogs, other than looking scary. I don't have kids, nor do I allow the little snotmonsters into my home. Again, my Pit Bull is about as dangerous as your "assault rifle".

Though if you do something to make my dogs bite you, what makes you think I am going to ask them to stop?

Pit Bulls and Americans. Tenacious beyond all imagination.

Once again, if it was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt, it's good enough for me.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:39:08 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As far as dogs "flopping around on the ground" after being shot, big tough talk like that really rubs me wrong.

If you gotta do a job, then do it.

Running around gloating about how you love to shoot dogs is pretty fucking sad.

Stay away from my neighborhood, sicko.



I don't love to shoot dogs. You just have to every now and then.


And of course you follow it up with the coup de grace.



That wasn't the way you put it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:47:39 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Exactly the point I made earlier. "A Frightening Rate" of an average of 20 or less per year over 20 years time of recorded data, in a population of nearly 300 million people.

Again, I compute the data.
0.000006% chance per year of this happening.
Statistically insignificant.

While tragic, it's hardly a "frightening" public menace, except to people who are inordinately "frightened" people anyway.  
250% more people die every year from bee-stings!





Is it really? Those are the stats for fatal attacks.  What about statistics where a child has a face torn off or an armed ripped up? What's the rate of that?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:57:02 PM EDT
[#27]
It is recommended that you do not leave children unattended with any dog.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:27:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:16:35 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That my friend is a silly word when speaking of animals.  They have no concept of 'trust' or breaking it.



Again, if I felt that way about any dog, I wouldn't have it. They do have a concept of what is family and what isn't and who should be attacked and who shouldn't. I am certain of that.


 Small kids are one thing, a toddler is something much different.  My 19 month old will play and giggle and have fun with my Husky but she will also rip his hair out, poke his eyes, smack his face, and do things that really push his limits.  He's done nothing but that yelp/bark/jump up mix they do but that doesn't mean that I trust him alone with her.  


Nearly all of the dogs that I have owned have suffered much worse than that, without complaint. They will come and ask me for protection from the kids, but that is about it.


I have no concept of trust in a dog.  He's big enough to seriously injure her should she push him over the line, and she's too young to fully understand what hurts him and annoys him.   I know he is trained well and what I can expect from him in normal circumstances and I also know that he has a limit somewhere.  I'm old enough to see when it is approaching by his body language, she is not.


Maybe you need better dogs. None of mine have ever gotten to the "body language" stage --even when the kid was obviously hurting them.


They are not ever in the same room together alone, but then again I rarely leave a 19 month old in a room alone.


I have four kids and four grandkids. The youngest of my kids is 26. From experience, I can tell you that if you own a dog, sooner or later, the kids will be alone with the dog.




Ok, whatever you say bud.  Trust whatever animal you want to trust.  I'm sure no trusted pet has EVER bitten a child.  

For fuck sakes.  The dog mind readers out there amaze me.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:41:50 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:
That's sweet but the Pit bite calls I've been on have all been someone elses Pit on the loose. Which of course NEVER bit anyone before.

But they do make a neat flopping around dance when they get hit by 230 gr.



Way to re-enforce the stereotype of cops going around shooting dogs!
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:44:02 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
-------------------------------------------------
what's the rate of that?
---------------------------------------------------


I don't know.
You tell me.
Hysterics and conjecture don't hold water.
Show me some facts, and compare the numbers of these "face ripping" attacks to the number of people in the general population of the US, and tell me what the percentage of chance it will happen is.
Just like I did.

If it's even anywhere near a hundredth of a percent, it would be astounding.
Face it, you're making a big deal out of something that's less likely than getting struck by lightning.
It's an emotional argument that isn't borne out in fact.

I suppose that "It's for the children" will be the next argument.
Or maybe "If only one person was saved by this", etc, etc.
Every emotional liberal argument in the book.

I happen to have a severe dislike for spiders and snakes.
That doesn't mean I'm running around trying to stir up an anti-snake campaign with hype that they are a national menace.
Ban the water moccasin!



Notice his use of the word "child" for maximum emotional effect, instead of just using the word "kid" or "person".  Just like DIFi.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:57:30 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
A question for those here who own pit bulls and defend the "breed" (term used loosely) in the numerous pit bull bashing story threads here at ARFcom:

- If you have a pit bull, do you have any kids?

- Do you let the kids play with the dog?

- Would you feel comfortable leaving your 2 year old -- or your 6 six year old -- alone in a room with your dog while you were in the next room for a few minutes?

I'm worried about leaving my labrador retreiver with my son whose 1.5 years old, and my lab is the most gentle and wonderful dog a guy could have.

Serious questions, although I know the potential for emotion on this topic is high so I'm putting on the anti- suit as we speak.




"Fight or flight"  mentality from the dog is natural.
If any child puts a dog into a corner it will either fight or flight.
It's only natural. The responsibility lies with the dogs owner....always 100%

Your sons safety is more important than your dogs liberty


Taffy
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:28:06 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

That my friend is a silly word when speaking of animals.  They have no concept of 'trust' or breaking it.



Again, if I felt that way about any dog, I wouldn't have it. They do have a concept of what is family and what isn't and who should be attacked and who shouldn't. I am certain of that.


 Small kids are one thing, a toddler is something much different.  My 19 month old will play and giggle and have fun with my Husky but she will also rip his hair out, poke his eyes, smack his face, and do things that really push his limits.  He's done nothing but that yelp/bark/jump up mix they do but that doesn't mean that I trust him alone with her.  


Nearly all of the dogs that I have owned have suffered much worse than that, without complaint. They will come and ask me for protection from the kids, but that is about it.


I have no concept of trust in a dog.  He's big enough to seriously injure her should she push him over the line, and she's too young to fully understand what hurts him and annoys him.   I know he is trained well and what I can expect from him in normal circumstances and I also know that he has a limit somewhere.  I'm old enough to see when it is approaching by his body language, she is not.


Maybe you need better dogs. None of mine have ever gotten to the "body language" stage --even when the kid was obviously hurting them.


They are not ever in the same room together alone, but then again I rarely leave a 19 month old in a room alone.


I have four kids and four grandkids. The youngest of my kids is 26. From experience, I can tell you that if you own a dog, sooner or later, the kids will be alone with the dog.




Ok, whatever you say bud.  Trust whatever animal you want to trust.  I'm sure no trusted pet has EVER bitten a child.  



Who, besides you, said that?


For fuck sakes.  The dog mind readers out there amaze me.


I would tell you to call me back when you have 19 years experience instead of 19 months, but you still wouldn't be close, even then.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:29:00 PM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
It is recommended that you do not leave children unattended with any dog.



Recommended by whom?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:32:53 PM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Those are the divisions in the stats.



which is exactly the problem. People don't know the difference between a APBT, Stafford, hell rednoses get called pitbulls 50%of the time.

And all the evidence you need to to look at the reports of it.. For instance when that girl got mauled in the SF appt building the dogs were pits on the news, they weren't. I watch TV and there's a pit bull attack with a picture of a rottie. Anytime a dog bites somebody it won't be reported.. if a big dog that looks at all like a PBT it's a pit bull attack.

You say it doesn't match what you've seen... can you distinguish the dogs apart just on looks alone? I would bet money the answer is no


EDIT: I suck at the quote feature.. hang on a sec..

Nevermind you can figure out what's supposed to be where



If you are talking about the incident where the woman got attacked in a hallway by two dogs, all the news reports that I saw identified those dogs as presa canarios right from the get-go. I never saw any reports that identified them as pit bulls.

If you are talking about the more recent case where a 12-year-old (or so) kid was killed, the owner herself identified those dogs as pit bulls.

In most cases that I have read about the owners themselves have identified the dogs as pit bulls.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
The last list I saw showed the Dalmation as the number one biting dog in the country followed closely by the Lab and Golden Retriever.



The government stats show that pit bulls account for about half of all deaths.



And if you (wolfman) had read the text to go along with those statistics, you would know that they basically say "Well, shucks, we pretty much called anything that looks kinda like a Pit Bull or something a Pit Bull mighta knocked up a "pit bull type dog". Don't quote that idiotic stat sheet unless you read the text.

GT



You can find the full text of one of the reports here: www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf and another here; www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm

The latter document lists the following breeds as being the leaders:
Pit bull type dogs
Rottweiler
German Shepherd
Husky
Malamute
Doberman Pinscher
Chow Chow
Great Dane
St. Bernard
Akita

I will grant you that a dog's lineage is nearly always in question, and news reports can be inaccurate. However, the difference between these varieties of dogs is easily distinguishable. I don't think too many people are going to confuse something from the Great Dane line with something from the pit bull line.



Ok dude, if you are gonna not only tie the knot and put the noose around your neck, I will go ahead and oblige you by pulling the lever.

The exact text, which you have obviously not read, reads verbatim:

the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy
than those by other breeds, our methods may
have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities
by breed.


Third, because identification of a dog’s breed
may be subjective (even experts may disagree on the
breed of a particular dog), DBRF may be differentially
ascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.


Thanks for playing, come again soon.

See that red stuff. Biased. Both on the CDC part (although they at least admit that their stats are probably flawed) and on your part. Your debate fu is weak Maynard. Read that report (it's even printed in english) and come back when you have a clue.



I read it. I have also read the news reports and, in most of the cases I have seen, the owners themselves identified the dogs as pit bull. The most recent death of a kid in SF is just one example.

Of course, you could argue that the owners don't know what kind of dog they have.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:53:30 PM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's sweet but the Pit bite calls I've been on have all been someone elses Pit on the loose. Which of course NEVER bit anyone before.

But they do make a neat flopping around dance when they get hit by 230 gr.



Way to re-enforce the stereotype of cops going around shooting dogs!



No, cops or anyone else don't wan't to shoot dogs, or anthing else. Sometimes it has to be done.

Animal control or the shelters seldom come out, if at all and pick up a dog who's bitten someone. So do you let it run loose or put it down?


Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:04:32 PM EDT
[#38]

Originally Posted By wolfman97


Ok, whatever you say bud.  Trust whatever animal you want to trust.  I'm sure no trusted pet has EVER bitten a child.  


Who, besides you, said that?

I would tell you to call me back when you have 19 years experience instead of 19 months, but you still wouldn't be close, even then.



You said you trust your dog.  You did, not I.  I said that pleanty of trusted dogs have hurt kids.

I'm really not trying to start a pissing match and probably should hold the language sometimes.  You can feel free to trust whatever or whoever you want.  19 years aint going to convince me to leave any toddler with a large dog.  I don't agree with that position, it's to be avioded as far as I am concerned.  

You can do as you like, I honestly don't care.  It was just a statement of my position on the issue.  You then seemed to imply that I am in the wrong and have a mean dog out of thin air. I never said my dog has threatned the child, I said she wouldn't know what the signs were if she saw them.

I have plenty of advise from many other parents and grandparents as I don't live on the moon so I won't be needing your number.   Thanks anyway.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 11:55:22 PM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:
You said you trust your dog.  You did, not I.  I said that pleanty of trusted dogs have hurt kids.



None of mine ever have.


I'm really not trying to start a pissing match and probably should hold the language sometimes.  You can feel free to trust whatever or whoever you want.  19 years aint going to convince me to leave any toddler with a large dog.  I don't agree with that position, it's to be avioded as far as I am concerned.  

You can do as you like, I honestly don't care.  It was just a statement of my position on the issue.  You then seemed to imply that I am in the wrong and have a mean dog out of thin air. I never said my dog has threatned the child, I said she wouldn't know what the signs were if she saw them.

I have plenty of advise from many other parents and grandparents as I don't live on the moon so I won't be needing your number.   Thanks anyway.



What can I tell you? The first thing is that, as your own child grows older, you will discover it is pretty hard to keep track of them all the time. Sooner or later, they will be alone with the dog -- unless the parents are absolutely manic about it.

The second is that decades of experience with my own dogs has convinced me that they would make a willing and conscious decision to sacrifice their own lives for the sake of the kids in the family. If you think they can't be "trusted" then I think you either got bad dogs or you underestimate them. I could give you a number of examples from my own experience where family dogs took all kinds of punishment from children and would still defend the child against impossible odds.

I think they are able to make conscious decisions in this regard. I could tell you a number of stories of my own but one of the most convincing that I have run across was written by a Nobel laureate who said his own experience convinced him that dogs could think and be "trusted."  He said that, as a child he and his father drove to some place a few miles away from home. When they were returning home a sandstorm pretty well obliterated their view of the road. But they knew where they were going, so they still kept up a respectable speed. They got close to home and were met by the family dog who ran alongside the truck, barking at them madly. They didn't know what the dog wanted, so they just kept driving. The dog got more and more agitated until, finally, it threw itself in front of the front tires and was killed instantly.

They stopped the truck and got out, wondering why the dog did it. As they were looking at the dog's body, the dust cleared a little and he realized that his brother had come out to greet them on his bicycle and had fallen down and was laying in the road just a few yards ahead of them. If the dog had not deliberately sacrificed its own life, they would have surely killed his brother.

From my own experience with dogs, I don't find that story surprising at all. I would expect that every dog I have ever owned would be willing to make the same kind of sacrifice, and they have proved it on several occasions. I have had relatives who had dogs that went after kids in the family but those were clearly dogs that were unlike mine and that I wouldn't have trusted. Something was clearly wrong with those dogs. They also wound up dead after the first incident.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 12:49:10 AM EDT
[#40]
We owned one for 13 years.  She was as gentle as can be with people, but was a cat killer.  She was three or four years old when we got her from some bikers that were being evicted.  They taught her to kill cats and there wasn't any way we could train her not to.  We always had a fenced yard so the cats were safe as long as they stayed out of the yard.  A lot of cat owners didn't believe us when we warned them so at last count the score was pit bull 14, cats 0.

Our children were older when we had her so she was never around small children and we always kept her outside and away from visiting children.  All dogs are pack animals and don't see children as any kind of leader so it's a good idea to train, train, train and always be watchful no matter what the breed.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:36:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:45:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Google brings up a lot of hits for news stories with the words "pit bull attacked"

news.google.com/news?q=pit%20bull%20attacked&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-28,GGLG:en&sa=N&tab=wn
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:55:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:17:55 AM EDT
[#44]
It's impossible to derive the worldwide bite incident rate based on report statistics because it ignores dog contact ratios, which is impossible to extrapolate from this data.   For instance, of the 50 million people in Korea, very few get bitten by dogs because dogs are not kept as pets (they're eaten).  The same might be true for 1 billion plus in China and 900 million in India.

However, what I can extrapolate from the data, on an anecdotal if not empirical basis, is that pit bull attacks are reported more frequently than other types of dog bite attacks.  You can blame biased reporting, incorrect breed identification, etc., but my conclusion is inescapable.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:48:26 AM EDT
[#45]
Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top