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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:14:59 AM EDT
[#1]
1. Had been arrested in 2004 on a warrant for attmepted murder in Louisiana: CHECK 2. Had been Arrested in 2004 on a Warrant for Criminal Vandalism or Damage: CHECK Turd warning right here folks |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:17:26 AM EDT
[#2]
I kind of doubt that it was a "narcotics checkpoint" I have a feeling this was either: Commercial interdiction (looking for drugs, illegal aliens, uninspected fruit etc. A NAFTA deal, esp that close to the TX/LA border. ) A search of a specific vehicle arising from a regular traffic stop. I had something similar to me happen a couple of years ago. Working a wreck, just about to finish, when a Toyota Corolla crests the hill, sees all the flashing lights, and LOCKS the brakes, slides off the roadway, thru a fence, and slams against a dumpster. 5 people instantly bail and run like hell. Three officers and about half a dozen firefighters just look and think WTF? Turns out the car was stolen, they were coming from a bank robbery in another city, and these geniuses thought we were a roadblock lying in wait for them. That ol' cocaine paranoia. 
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:21:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Well now you know what might happen if you do. God forbid in this country a man runs frim a check point, fires at the police, gets killed and has no fault in his own demise. Only in America. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:23:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Did they get his dog?
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:48:38 AM EDT
[#5]
wait what? I was trying to say that even though the guy WAS a scumbag, we shouldn't overlook the fact that checkpoints are bad. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:52:22 AM EDT
[#6]
I was not trying to diprove your argument. I'm saying that if you run from a police check point, whether you agree or not, you still may be chased. The reson they are there is to catch assholes like this guy. I meant no comparison between you and him. Sorry If my message offended you. 
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:53:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Maybe so. But would you have come out shooting at police when you were pulled over? Fact is, this idiot was LOOKING for an armed confrontation with the "JBTs" for a long time. He finally  |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:59:49 AM EDT
[#8]
no way will i ever shoot at cops - shit, im going to school to be one. I'm just saying, I will avoid checkpoints. The reason I don't like stories like this is because it gets people in the mindset of "people who don't like checkpoints are bad" SemperParatusEMT - no offense was taken. i just wanted to make sure you didnt think i was some sort of nutjob defending this clown. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:03:38 AM EDT
[#9]
I am an American citizen - I will not suffer the unconstitutionality of checkpoints. But I will gladly accept the PRIVALEGE of driving. If you dont want to "suffer" checkpoints, why drive. I mean, here is an example of why checkpoints work. A heavily armed fugitive was moments from being caught at one. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:05:12 AM EDT
[#10]
If he had MRE's then that surely made him a Survivalist
 I've got a monkey wrench........ can I be a mechanic? |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Not if it takes a drunk or drug addict off the road. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:11:21 AM EDT
[#12]
NP.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:12:48 AM EDT
[#13]
The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.  Purple Nissan??? WTF??? 
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:12:50 AM EDT
[#14]
I hate media spin - labelling - just another leftist scheme that people fall into..............they label this obvious bad guy as a "survivalist" to push animosity between "survivalists" and others just as they use labels to separate everyone else who is progun, conservative, Christian, libertarian, or independent thinking in any way, shape or form. Nevermind that this guy was probably not a "survivalist" in any way, shape, or form. If so - he was a very POORLY trained survivalist............
All when the perpetrator had nothing to do with said labels - just more media stereotyping. A criminal who had firearms in his possession - thats it. But its okay - Hitler effectively labelled the Jews - lets let our leftist media blackball everyone that fits into THEIR evil image as being a "survivalist" or "gun owner" or "rightwing",etc, etc. Fuck the media. (rant mode off) |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:17:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Paperz please:
Narcotics checkpoint Sobriety checkpoint Safety (seatbelt) checkpoint Weapons checkpoint |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:18:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Duh.... You are a master of the obvious. I would turn around too. I got better things to do than go through checkpoints. If I had known it was there, I would have taken a different route or stayed home. I don't feel any need to indulge the authorities unnecessarily.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:18:41 AM EDT
[#17]
You're kidding right? I think you forgot the little face with crooked looking eyes at the end of your sentence. The fact that a narcotics checkpoint might take a druggie or drunk off the road does not justify it. Pretty soon I'll be hearing things like, "If it saves one life.." or "we owe it to our children" bullshit to justify even more laws. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:31:35 AM EDT
[#18]
WTF? Over? Did I stumble into DU today? Does the Constitution mean anything to you? Do you believe that you have the right to come and go as you please, or should Uncle Sam be able to take a look at your "papers" before you can go anywhere? Is this America? I can't (and WON'T) defend the idiot subject of this thread. But checkpoints SUCK, and most definitely are NOT the kinds of things our Founding Fathers intended for this FREE freakin' country. If you think that checkpoints are a good thing for our collective safety, then perhaps you might think that the 2nd Ammendment is NOT a good thing for our safety... |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:15:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Maybe he was going camping and planned to do some shooting while he was there. Who knows why the guy snapped. I don't neccessarily think he was on his way to do anything evil though. It's obviously possible, but I don't think the fact that he had "lots of guns and some food" points to that. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:21:17 PM EDT
[#20]
nevermind, I misread someones statement.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:22:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Stop me if I'm somehow missing something here, but it seems that the checkpoint worked. If I understand this checkpoint was set up in some sort of effort to catch drug runners or other serious criminals. If that is the case, it would seem to have been a success in this case. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:34:04 PM EDT
[#22]
NOT much of a survivalist, was he.
Lebrew |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:35:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Living in Beaumont, the news reports are skewed of course. It was interdiction, he did not just turn around. He bailed off the side of the freeway thru the grass onto the service rd and then pulled into the parking lot of a Goodyear plant and attempted to go out the backway. It was kinda obvious he was trying to avoid the police. Thankfully none of the officers were killed, or any bystanders as he was doing this in a semi populated neighborhood. Sounds like to me he was definitley out to take care of some business somewhere as he supposedly had quite a bit of ammo for the weapons along with a gasmask. This guy simply went crazy no doubt about it and noone will no why. By the way from what I understand he shot himself before being taken into custody and not a "mysterious" death. Officers did an excellent job in my opinion as noone got hurt except the bad guy.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:35:27 PM EDT
[#24]
The concern lies in that fine balance between government's lawful power - and the God given rights of citizens. Its America - not some totalitarian state with brownshirts.......its finding that proper balance.
Curious to see how courts have ruled on the Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. As Coast Guard, we can conduct a Customs boarding with only probable cause -no search warrant on the water for that TYPE of boarding. Said authority is granted under the US Code of Federal Regulations. The thing with roadways is that they are normally state property - though some states consider one's vehicle to be an extension of their domicile. A lot of confusion on the issue of what is lawful it seems. If you OWN a private road, I wouldnt expect a checkpoint - but so long as state roads are state property - what is the "line" between right and wrong? Judges define what is legal - for good or bad :( So this can't be reflected against a cop patrolling their normal beat, etc. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:36:18 PM EDT
[#25]
They should make a rule about shooting yourself in the head if you are a "survivalist," IMO. 
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:47:03 PM EDT
[#26]
ONE checkpoint, out of TENS OF THOUSANDS across the country, catches ONE bad guy, and some members here immediately point their fingers, smile smugly and proclaim "See? Check points really are a good thing!"
Sad. But not surprising. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:47:09 PM EDT
[#27]
There is a rule, it goes "If you shoot yourself in the head, YOU LOSE" 
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Posted: 8/25/2005 12:59:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Ok, let's make this simple and it doesn't even get to ruffle the feathers of the anarchists (something that I think would be a hoot btw).
He didn't attract police attention until he committed a traffic violation. That, boys and girls is what we JBT call probable cause. He started shooting at officers through the rear window of his truck while attempting to evade a lawful stop for a traffic violation. He could have been going camping , he could have been going to shoot-up a daycare or a girlfriends house, he could have been going for a long day of plinking at a firing range. We'll never know because HE set up this scenerio and chose his own ending.Of course the news is going to sensationalize this story. Of course the antis are going to make a big deal about this, IT PROVES THEIR POINT. Bitching about check points of any variety is not going to change what HE did. Somehow condoning his activities prior does not negate his value to thir anti-gun agenda. We should be pissed at him and everyone like him for fitting the ant-gunners mold of lawful gun owners (which HE wasn't btw). In ND we publish with at least 24 hours notice the area or location of DUI check-points. You basically pull up, say hello and long as the officers don't detect an alcohol stink or see anything in plain view, you drive on by after a brief slow-down and chat. If you pull off the road in a legal manner and go the opposite direction (even when I worked in TX) We simply shrug and watch you drive off. It's the morons who turn U-turns on the freeway or exit by crossing over the median that gets our attention. Rattle your sabres all you want but, please be pissed at the right person and that person saved the tax-payers a lot of money by shooting himself. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:08:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Show me a checkpoint where you can make a turn to avoid it without committing a traffic violation.
Where? What percentage of the population gets the newspaper anymore? I know the circulation of the local papers here is a couple of hundred thou in a metro area of a couple million. Is it also buried back in the obits?
So we need your approval to continue on our journey? How fascist.
The ones I've seen in the northeast do not permit anything but a U-turn. How convenient.
Hey, all it cost us was another little bit of our freedom. (Don't paint this as condoning drunks or nuts, the problem here is using the actions of a loon to justify intrusive, and frankly, obnoxious, checkpoints. If someone is weaving, then pull em over and nail their ass. If you want to go fishing, buy a boat.) |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:10:45 PM EDT
[#30]
First off, I agree the guy is probably a worthless piece of shit and I'm glad no tax dollars are going to him. But I can't believe that you think checkpoints are ok since you give 24 hours warning. How does that change anything? Why not just "warn" us that on Mondays everybody is liable to get searched. But it's ok since you warned us. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:15:02 PM EDT
[#31]
He evaded in a motor vehicle and fired shots at police officers. A)You do not run from the police, in all probability had he not gone nuts he most likely would have been ok or at the very least maybe UCW for the pistols, which if he had a CCL he would have been ok. B)You especially DO NOT shoot at officers.
This one was just publicized because of the outcome. Proactive police work does way more good than bad, it just is not publicized because most of the time nothing bad happens, just one more bad guy off the street. This guy chose his own demise, which was probably what he wanted anyway. This site sometimes astounds at how anti it can get about things. Especially towards police officers. There are bad police officers granted, but come on this guy was trying to kill them it was plainly obvious, that IS NOT ok. He went nuts, for whatever reason, if it had not been this that set him off it would have been some poor rookie small town cop making a traffic stop by himself, that could be dead and little kids without their dad. Same could have resulted from this. They went home to their families, he did not(due to his own choices), they did their job they protected the citizens, protected themselves and upheld the law of the State of Texas. End of story, if you're gonna bash police officers at least do it where deserved, not when they defended themselves and citizens in a proper manner and kept who knows who else in what area from being killed. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:15:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Was it a real check point or one of those fake check points where the post signs warning of a drug check point then try to find a lawfull reason to stop the cars that exit the freeway in response to the signs? |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:16:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Your posts on LEO issues command respect. However, your statement above reflects precisely what I fear from those who act under the auspices of government. From your point of view, the checkpoint was a success because it removed a cancer from society. From my point of view, checkpoints like these are a failure because they subject society to government intrusion, interference, and harassment simply because we are travelling, not because of any perceived crime. It's like the government saying an operation to remove a wart on your finger was a success after your arm gets amputated. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:18:18 PM EDT
[#34]
True. Ever seen the video of the man in Georgia who used a M1 Carbine to murder the Georgia patrol officer? Or the guy who used the Mk-90 to murder the Ornag county deputy at the 7/11? Or the Texan that murdered a traffic cop with a mini-14 over a seatbelt ticket?Or ASSweb moderator Bulldogradio (steve anderson) who ambushed a deputy with an illegal converted full auto AK type rifle on the way home from a miltia meeting? |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:21:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Correct. you set up signs warning of a "drug checkpoint" that doesnt exist. then you watch fro people throwing drugs out the window in response to the signs. You also watch for people who exit the freeway in response to the sign, then try to find a lawfull reason to stop the vehciel and ask for consent to search it. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:31:08 PM EDT
[#36]
And we all WONDER WTF we have "Us vs. Them" threads............Law Enforcement is a tough job that often gets looked over and is always under the eye of the media and the public. Being a law-abiding citizen is normally an easy job. But taking all things into account - we do NOT need LEO's on a power trip - most aren't - most do an excellent job of upholding the law properly - but I fear one testerone filled LEO as MUCH as I fear a madman with an "assault rifle"........for all the JBT apologists........STFU - you havent seen a cop lose his situational awareness............People I work with almost got shot by trigger happy PD.........for no reason. Good training and good officers leads to good results. Shitty training and Shitty officers - leads to manslaughter charges at your local DA's office. LEO's who do there job everyday in harms way should be held high in public regard - shitbags who slip through the system - deserve the axe. No if's, and's, or but's.......
Back to the subject at hand - the perp got what he deserved - find that proper balance - and preserve it.........LEO bashing usually comes when Officers cross the line. The thin blue line is there for a reason. Utilize it. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:31:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Driver's licenses, use of public funded roadways, etc. has been labeled as priveleges (sp?, sorry worked night shift and haven't gone to bed yet). So, I can slow down traffic, stop traffic and say hello. As long as I don't start pulling people out of their cars at random, I'm ok according to YOUR elected officials, YOUR elected judges, and the bulk of the people who vote on such things. I can say hello or ask to stop someone to talk to them about a legal concern as long as I don't unnecessarily hinder their right to travel freely and as long as I stop everybody. You know, I can't profile anymore, remember?
If you don't like checkpoints, try to get rid of them. Get involved, vote, petition, whatever it takes to LAWFULLY exercise the bulk of your constitutional rights. Bitchin' about them on a web-thread doesn't change the fact that everyday, we, the heartless JBT, get phonecall after phonecall asking us to do something about drunk-driving, drug-trafficking, child-abduction, __place your pet peave here___, and everything else. Having taken an oath to serve, we do what we can and try to occasionally use our imaginations to do what we've been asked to do. If it's wrong legally, our State's Attorney usually shakes their head and say "Bad Cop, No Donut" and we don't do it. I have yet to hear of one phone call, yet alone numbers of them, for us to STOP using checkpoints. I understand that the bulk of society is a group of sheople who wouldn't know their rights to a bullet through the head. So, here's another idea. Drive through every checkpoint you can. Do everything according to traffic code and be polite. If you are unlawfully detained, searched, arrested, whatever, SUE the living crap out of everybody. Laws are changed by two things, legislation and legal precident. Fighting convictions through appeals and civil tort changes things a lot faster than digital whining. Oh btw, I neglected to include that we also make notifications of checkpoints using not only newspaper but also local TV and radio stations. Can't help it if you only trust FOX News (like me), The Shotgun News (picked mine up today  ) or a website like this one.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:31:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Definitely seems to be an "us and them" situation when the question of checkpoints is discussed. I have NOTHING to hide. Yet next weekend (Labor Day) I may be subjected to a checkpoint because our state HP says they're going to be doing that to catch drunk drivers. I don't drink. I am insured. I have insurance. My vehicle registration is paid up. So WHY should I have to be detained for an amount of time to prove all of this? This kind of thing pisses me off in a big way. I will be driving all over my area because I play in bands on the weekends at bars/clubs. So I have no choice but to take those roads. And it's just plain BS that I have to be subjected to this just because some idiots drink and drive. This country
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:35:10 PM EDT
[#39]
This occurred about 15 miles form my home.
Interestingly enough, the guy worked part-time at a Beaumont gun shop that we frequent, although I do not remember ever seeing him there. He had a dishonorable discharge from the Marines. He had shot-up his place of employment in Louisiana and was out on bail. First news reports were sketchy, but it is not clear why he ran from police. Of course, as soon as he busted that first cap, the end was inevitable. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:39:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Usually - no one has anything to hide. Of course, if you live in a liberal state there IS the possibility that you possess a firearm in your vehicle. If it is discovered during a routine check while you are SOBER, you will be a felon and send to jail as such. Enjoy your felony prison time for attempting to protect your RKBA.......because your local state or municipality does not recognize said rights!! Most cops won't do this - but some ARE antigun and wil go that extra mile to advance their career by stripping your car apart for some bullshit reason. So enjoy while you spend ten years getting ass raped by Bubba. Its cool - at least you obeyed the law of the land....Sucks to be you!! Feel free to right your congressman or Judge about said officer. Did I mention we are becoming a NANNY STATE! |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:45:15 PM EDT
[#41]
SO, if I understand the reply, any officer that participates in a checkpoint is on the same level as a bad cop that shoots people for no reason? I can't comment on why your friends had the confrontations with LEO that you've commented on so, I won't speculate. However, I won't be called a "bad cop" because I happen to post a viewpoint condoning checkpoints. Checkpoints that we are asked to conduct BY THE PUBLIC. If we ignore their requests, we get shit on. If we ignore requests by some to do absolutely nothing until something really bad happens, we get shit on and sued for not "protecting and serving". Catch 22.
If I'm going to get shit on anyway, I'll do it doing something proactive that's designed to save lives and not sit back idly twiddling my thumbs waiting to clean up some bodies. Death notifications suck, I hate doing them but have to occasionally because some people also believe that they have the constitutional right to drink excessively, take mind / mood altering narcotics (legal and illegal) and drive a vehicle. ETA: That "balance" mentioned is subjective. It depends on who is making that "balance". A balance to you might be sitting on my ass waiting on calls. That balance might be unconstitutional weapons confiscation by some bleeding heart idiot or career minded politician. I am NOT a JBT apologists, not that I'm saying you labeled me that directly. I'm more concerned I gaurantee by those in my ranks that abuse the authority they are given than you are. Don't think that they don't get "come to Jesus meetings" on a more frequent basis than any other terd. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:45:26 PM EDT
[#42]
What if you pull up to a check point and refuse to roll down your windows, are you breaking any law?
What would the JBT's do? Draw down and arrest you for not complying? |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:45:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Thank God I live in a state where I can keep my 1911 in my glovebox (where I usually have it), on my seat, on my side, under my seat, on my dash, etc. And it's loaded, cocked, and locked too. But cops make me nervous cause there's always some rookie hot-head itching to be a badass. So I'll likely keep my .45 in the glove box, and keep my "papers" handy on the seat next to me. Wouldn't want to have to get in the glove box for said papers and have some JBT startin' sh#t when he sees my peice...
P.S. cmoth and other LEO's: I don't think of all cops as JBT's. I work with/for over 100 at my PD. Most are cool. But some are dickwads. And I don't blame you personally for checkpoints. You gotta do what your superiors order you to do. But I have a problem with such state-is-god creations as checkpoints. I would love NOTHING more than to help you guys to catch all of the dopers and drunk-drivers running the roads. I desipise those guys! In all of my travels, one may even end-up killing me eventually. But I'm not happy about losing some liberties to accomplish this task. Where there are laws, there is abuse. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:49:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Just checking in.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 1:49:32 PM EDT
[#45]
I was not labelling you at all.........I'm upset with a certain mindset........a couple guys I work with needlessly had a gun drawn down on them by an overexcited Boston cop........he may be in the process of losing his badge.......We do LE too - but no mind to that - this local cop decided to go from meere officer presence to making threatening statements while pointing his issue sidearm at their head. Its "cool" though.....I mean NO disrespect to LEO's who do a hard job every day - which is 90% of them.....but how do the psychos slip through the academy? Seriously! |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 2:01:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Like a camping trip involving some shooting and eating in the wilderness area? |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 2:07:07 PM EDT
[#47]
I hope I'm not pulled over going to the range any time soon after this. That guy was a lightweight, a coupla rifles and a coupla handguns? Bah, my kid takes more then that to the range when he goes with me. I usually have 20 or 25 guns, coupla K of ammo, and my CCW piece. Officer Bob would think he hit the motherlode. And the guy was a dumb shit criminal, glad he's worm food now instead of reading about him shooting up a school or other media frenzy place.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 2:11:52 PM EDT
[#48]
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!  dude, give the guy a little credit... one of his targets would have been hit if this really was Nationwide shooting. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 2:12:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Yep, and gun bans are totally badass, if they prevent even one criminal from obtaining a firearm. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 2:16:48 PM EDT
[#50]
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