Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. The people of today if alive during WWII would have quit somewhere in the middle of the Battle of Guadalcanal. Al-Qaeda is apparently right we are to weak, short sighted, and stupid to beat them. WRONG. When we defeated Japan we established a puppet state and kept a very tight reign on it. That is not happening in Iraq. The Islamic Republic of Iraq will someday become a state sponsor of terror and again threaten the security of the US. World class BULLSHIIT. You mirror the 1945 Monday morning quarterbacks that were making the same silly speculations about Japan in 1945 when they let the Emperor stay. Let us try something… lets actuality wait and see what happens with the new Iraqi government before we tuck or tails and run. You need to associate yourself with reality. Iraq has already declared that the official religion of the state will be Islam, and they have decided that the Koran will be the source for legislation. They are paving the way to their next conflivt with the US right now. A democracy has a tendency to change over time...People having the right to vote...that kinda thing ...have you looked around lately? This ain't your grandpa's country anymore

That's not a very encouraging prospect.

Agreed. Let's wait and see what happens first, instead of buying into the gloom and doom of CNN. That's exactly what they WANT you to do. That's why they are only reporting the bad stuff.

Quoted: You need to associate yourself with reality. Iraq has already declared that the official religion of the state will be Islam, and they have decided that the Koran will be the source for legislation. They are paving the way to their next conflivt with the US right now.

NO IT HAS NOT...

Complete and TOTAL BULLSHIT.

There is NO agreement on a Iraqi constitution so what you propose is simply not true.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. The people of today if alive during WWII would have quit somewhere in the middle of the Battle of Guadalcanal. Al-Qaeda is apparently right we are to weak, short sighted, and stupid to beat them. WRONG. When we defeated Japan we established a puppet state and kept a very tight reign on it. That is not happening in Iraq. The Islamic Republic of Iraq will someday become a state sponsor of terror and again threaten the security of the US. World class BULLSHIIT. You mirror the 1945 Monday morning quarterbacks that were making the same silly speculations about Japan in 1945 when they let the Emperor stay. Let us try something… lets actuality wait and see what happens with the new Iraqi government before we tuck or tails and run. You need to associate yourself with reality. Iraq has already declared that the official religion of the state will be Islam, and they have decided that the Koran will be the source for legislation. They are paving the way to their next conflivt with the US right now. A democracy has a tendency to change over time...People having the right to vote...that kinda thing ...have you looked around lately? This ain't your grandpa's country anymore That's not a very encouraging prospect.

True enough, but what they decide today, will change over the next few years.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No, but we did need to so we could cover up all the oil deals in Afganistan. At the pump today you have no idea how much I wish this was all about oil. Its about securing a source of oil other that Saudi. If no one sells us oil this country shuts down blows some shit up. fixed it for you. you think if every country boycotted selling us oil that the US would say: "Awwww SHIT, we're screwed now. I guess we should have been more...polite?"

Boycott by means of a more profitable markets in other countries.
Why the fuck do you think were paying so much more now.
Oh and we are blowing shit up.
The fight in Iraq isnt about Jihad/muslim/islam.
Its about who gets to sell the oil there.
One other thing Democracy isnt the cure
for that region and Bush isnt the man to fix the
world.Thats another Mans job and he aint'
coming for a while.

Quoted: And that article was published before the US offensive in Ramadi, right?  So what has happened to those 2000 insurgents now?  They bunch up, they die.

That article was published for the last weekend in July, 29,30, 31.  Just happened to pick up a USA today when I saw a marine wearing sunglasses, looking pretty cool, getting ready to start his third tour in Iraq.

They describe Ramadi as the capital of the insurgency.

And, if there's been a fallujah style cleansing of the city, it was kept pretty secret in the last week and a half.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You do realize that the vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?  You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq.  Somehow I don't think you understand these facts.   That sounds great.   Prove it with links to numbers/stories that confirm it. You know those Al Qaeda people in Iraq who are claiming most of the bombings?  They're not from Iraq.

I know that the actual suicide bombers are predominately saudi.  That in no way confirms your very general statement though.  What's the sunni makeup?  Baathists?  It's a mix.

Quoted: I support our troops and I support killing militant islamics, but I'm begining to loose faith in the mission. To me, at the moment it's begining to look like we lost nearly 2,000 American soldiers only to establish another Islamic republic which will eventually become another state sponsor of terror. Have we undone ourselves yet again by creating our next enemy (again)?

You come unglued rather easily. Take a break from your head. What is in your heart?

No, but we did need to so we could cover up all the oil deals in Afganistan.

There isn't enough oil in Afghanistan to pay your taxes.

Time is our worst enemy. I remember feeling a huge sense of pride when we invaded Iraq. Now I see many jumping off the ship in fear it is sinking. Would you be doubting yourself if it was like Desert Storm?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. The people of today if alive during WWII would have quit somewhere in the middle of the Battle of Guadalcanal. Al-Qaeda is apparently right we are to weak, short sighted, and stupid to beat them. I wouldnt say we should quit. I say we should fight this war like Gen Sherman fought. Fight a damn war like a war. Sorry, those tactics won't work and you know it.  This is a war fought like none before.  Terrorism sucks, plain and simple.  The only way to deal with them is to kill the terrorists and their sympathizors.  The trick is finding them.  Killing them is the easy part. It would work. These people understand brutality , in fact they respect it and respond to it properly. If a city harbors terrorists, then that city became the enemy. A villiage harbors terrorist, then raze that village down. We are letting them coddle the enemy. We are letting the enemy have a mouthpiece. Al JAzeeras satellite should have been knocked out years ago. We need to bust sheads the proper way and set up strongmen that we can manage and they can keep the people in line. You do realize that the vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?  You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq.  Somehow I don't think you understand these facts.

I understand that.
I only went by observation from a friend that was there a while back  training the Iraqi Army. His facts I t rusted.

I also understand that even though the Iraqis hate the insurgents quite a bit, we are not far from them in their list of folks they dont like. Its an insult to them that we have to  be there. If only they would get off their asses and do something about their situation, we could then leave. Until then we are staying, and I have no problem with that. I just have problems with the Iraqi peoples attitudes.

Again I am going from a viewpoint froma buddy I completely trust who was there working with the Iraqi Army. I was there in 91 but we worked with the Kurds in my unit. If most of Iraq were like the Kurds, this would all be over.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And that article was published before the US offensive in Ramadi, right?  So what has happened to those 2000 insurgents now?  They bunch up, they die. That article was published for the last weekend in July, 29,30, 31.  Just happened to pick up a USA today when I saw a marine wearing sunglasses, looking pretty cool, getting ready to start his third tour in Iraq. They describe Ramadi as the capital of the insurgency. And, if there's been a fallujah style cleansing of the city, it was kept pretty secret in the last week and a half. Late last week or early this week after the insurgency started, there was a new offensive launched by the marines and Iraqi forces.  It was even given a name, but don't remember what it was.

Yeah, it was a 1000 unit operation for border interdiction related, I believe, to the bombing of the marine LTV.  Had nothing to do with Ramadi

It's high time some jackass came by and posted something like this to try and act superior to you all.
Might as well be me

Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. Ask the Marines in ramadi how they're liking their job.  And how many more batallions they think they need. If we stay, I hope our resolve is strong because the hard core veterans of our forces are about to get to the point where they simply cannot be sent back in good conscience.  Some Marines are now on their third 7 month tour. Solutions are difficult, blame is easy, but solves nothing.  It's just depressing how much a toll this takes on the less experienced national guard and reserve troops.  Ohio has been hit hard. This was an adventure of the Bush administration pure and simple.  Hindsight is 20/20, and it's clear that not only was our intelligence horrible, but the competence of the review and investigation of it was sorely lacking. If you or I make a decision that costs huge amounts of money based on poor analysis of the available data, especially if we're directly responsible for the review of it, and the people collecting it, we get our asses fired.

This war is a stroke of genius by the Bush administration. Without having to officially go to war with Islam we have done just that and as others have pointed out, split the Middle east into splinters with the capture of Afghanistan, Iraq and our aliance with Israel. The problem is being solved on the Grand Stategy level and not on the piss-ant, tit-for-tat level. We spent the 30 years previous to 9-11 denying the existance of the problem and we may have 20 years to extinguish it.

For nearly a thousand years Islam has only been peaceful when under a boot and we brought the boots.

My opinion is

We are kicking but and doing things a nation could only have dreamed of in the time span we have done. We are #1 and I am filled with pride. I know we will be victorious. I dont doubt that at all.

I doubt the people we are supposed to be freeing. I dont feel they are capable and I feel they are not worth one American life.

Win the WOT? By any means necessary.
Create a free democacy in the Middle east? That really isnt up to us, we can provide the means and no one can  do it better than the US. But ultimately the deciding factor will be the people we give the opportunity to, and I dont see them wanting it bad enough. If they did they would have got their freedom the way we earned it. We cannot expect any people to end up like us if they dont take the initiative. Initiative is the key and the Iraqis have none.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You do realize that the vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?  You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq.  Somehow I don't think you understand these facts.   That sounds great.   Prove it with links to numbers/stories that confirm it. You know those Al Qaeda people in Iraq who are claiming most of the bombings?  They're not from Iraq. I know that the actual suicide bombers are predominately saudi.  That in no way confirms your very general statement though.  What's the sunni makeup?  Baathists?  It's a mix. And saudi's are Iraqi's now?  The only attacks that they can do at this point are suicide bombings and ambushes.  And those are being done mostly by foreign fighters.  You even admit they are mostly saudi.

Come on.  Don't play the straw man game with me.  You claimed the 'vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?', and have provided no information to back that up.
You claimed 'You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq', also with only anecdotal evidence, and that provided by me!   These are generalizations you still haven't supported.
While most of the suicide bombers are saudi, not all 'insurgents' are suicide bombers.  

What I want from you is:

1.  A breakdown, by nationality, of the 'insurgency' as defined by organized resistance to coalition forces.  Provide this, and then we can decide if your 'vast majority' comments are true.
2.  A recent thorough polling of the Iraqis and their views of the insurgency, or a reasonable facsimile.  

This should have been provided as backup when I first asked for it, if it's available.

No we did not invade Iraq to make America safer. It was a political move and our armed forces are the ones paying the price for a bad decision.



Roy

DAMN!


I post a pic of a way-too-happy retard in full stride, and you guys didn't miss a beat.

Quoted: DAMN! I post a pic of a way-too-happy retard in full stride, and you guys didn't miss a beat.

Good picture... of you.

Bed time.

Quoted: My opinion is We are kicking but and doing things a nation could only have dreamed of in the time span we have done. We are #1 and I am filled with pride. I know we will be victorious. I dont doubt that at all. I doubt the people we are supposed to be freeing. I dont feel they are capable and I feel they are not worth one American life. Win the WOT? By any means necessary. Create a free democacy in the Middle east? That really isnt up to us, we can provide the means and no one can  do it better than the US. But ultimately the deciding factor will be the people we give the opportunity to, and I dont see them wanting it bad enough. If they did they would have got their freedom the way we earned it. We cannot expect any people to end up like us if they dont take the initiative. Initiative is the key and the Iraqis have none.

I agree.  We haven't even begun to tap the national will on this, and that's because of the message, the messenger, and the mire, not our own lack of will.  We'll save face in Iraq if whatever skeleton of government we leave behind survives, even if individuals are killed.  I don't think we'd allow a taliban style disaster there.  That would be too harmful to our interests.

We just have to play a lot smarter, goad the terrorists, and the people who breed them with their spiteful extremism, out of hiding, and deal with them.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. The people of today if alive during WWII would have quit somewhere in the middle of the Battle of Guadalcanal. Al-Qaeda is apparently right we are to weak, short sighted, and stupid to beat them. I wouldnt say we should quit. I say we should fight this war like Gen Sherman fought. Fight a damn war like a war. Sorry, those tactics won't work and you know it.  This is a war fought like none before.  Terrorism sucks, plain and simple.  The only way to deal with them is to kill the terrorists and their sympathizors.  The trick is finding them.  Killing them is the easy part. It would work. These people understand brutality , in fact they respect it and respond to it properly. If a city harbors terrorists, then that city became the enemy. A villiage harbors terrorist, then raze that village down. We are letting them coddle the enemy. We are letting the enemy have a mouthpiece. Al JAzeeras satellite should have been knocked out years ago. We need to bust sheads the proper way and set up strongmen that we can manage and they can keep the people in line. You do realize that the vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?  You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq.  Somehow I don't think you understand these facts.   I understand that. I only went by observation from a friend that was there a while back  training the Iraqi Army. His facts I t rusted. I also understand that even though the Iraqis hate the insurgents quite a bit, we are not far from them in their list of folks they dont like. Its an insult to them that we have to  be there. If only they would get off their asses and do something about their situation, we could then leave. Until then we are staying, and I have no problem with that. I just have problems with the Iraqi peoples attitudes. Again I am going from a viewpoint froma buddy I completely trust who was there working with the Iraqi Army. I was there in 91 but we worked with the Kurds in my unit. If most of Iraq were liek the Kurds, this would all be over. The majority of Iraqi's are like the Kurds.  The problem is in the sunni triangle.  The rest of the country seems to be relatively quiet.

I still dont feel to secure in the Shia majority. Right now they are being pacified, lets hope they keep that way because they are a big problem waiting to happen. We have to keep the Iranian Mullahs influence away from them.

I still think the Kurds should mobilize against the Sunni, and the Shia mobilize against the Sunni and wipe them out entirely. I can see an Iraq with two Autonamous zones , one Kurd, one Shia. I dont see a Sunni part of a stable Iraq. They are aproblem and always will be a problem.

THIS WAR AS ALL PREVIOUS WARS WILL WITH TIME.  THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THE TERRORIST WILL HIT US AT HOME AGAIN AND ATTENTION WILL BE DIVERTED FROM THE IRAQI FRONT BACK TO THE US FRONT.  FEW PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT AFGHANASTAN BUT THE MOMENT WE BOGGED DOWN A LITTLE IRAQ PARTY LINES DIVIDED AND WENT BACK TO THE SAME OLD SHIT,  BLAME SOMEBODY ELSE FOR WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE DOES AND TAKE NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY THING.  YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT OPENING THE FRONT IN IRAQ WAS TACTICAL GENIUS.  WE DIVERTED OUR ENEMY'S ATTENTION FROM THE HOMELAND TO A DISTANT BATTLEFIELD AND WE GOT RID OF A DICTATOR AND PLANTED THE SEED OF DEMOCRACY IN A REGION THAT HAS BEEN SUPPRESSED FOR CENTURIES.  THE IRAQIS WILL HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR NEW FREEDOM.  WILL THEY COPY OUR REPUBLIC,  WILL THEY BE A TRUE DEMOCRATIC STATE,  WILL  THEY BE STRICT ISLAMIC STATE?  THAT IS THEIR FREEDOM OF CHOICE FOR THEIR FUTURE.  I BELIEVE THEY WILL BE A FREE DEMOCRATIC ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.  THIS WONT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT,  IT TOOK US TEN OR SO YEARS TO GET OUR CONSTITUTION IN ORDER AND HAD NOT BEEN FOR THE HELP OF THE FRENCH OUR REVOLUTION WOULD HAVE FAILED BUT FRANCE HUNG WITH US,  FOUGHT WITH US,  SUPPLIED US AND SUPPORTED US UNTIL WE GOT ON OUR FEET.  MANY FORGET THESE ISSUES OF HISTORY AND TEES ME OFF WHEN I HEAR WASTED MONEY AND LIVES FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE.  PEOPLE MUST REALIZE THIS WAR IS FAR FROM OVER AND WE HAVE STRATEGICALLY PLACED OUR SELVES AROUND IRAN WHO I BELIEVE WILL BE THE NEXT FRONT ON THE WAR (HOPEFULLY SOONER THAN LATER BEFORE THE NUKES ARE DONE).  WE INVADED NORMANDY AND THE WORLD CHEERED US ON AND I HOPE WHEN WE INVADED IRAN THE WORLD WILL CHEER US ON.  AND WHEN THIS WAR IS FINALLY OVER,  HOPEFULLY BEFORE OUR CHILDREN BECOME OF AGE,  SOME WILL THANK US, SOME WILL CRITICIZE US,  BUT ALL WILL RESPECT US.  BUT THE N AGAIN WHAT DO I KNOW I AM JUST A TRUCK DRIVER,  A CRAZY PETROLEUM TRANSPORT TECHNICIAN.

I believe that the differences in the ethnic and religious people of Iraq will tugg and pull one another towards a moderate constitution and government. There is stregnth in diversity, if only the Iraqis rise to the challange.

Ouch. I guess trucks don't come with a Caps Lock key.

Everyone accepted the Afghanistan invasion, even France and Germany who have troops there, because there was a direct link between Al Qaeda and Afghanistan. Besides, the Taliban had pissed off the world by destroying the Bhuddas, so they were probably asking for it.

Such a direct and obvious link did not exist in Iraq. Iraq was a pre-emptive strike, in effect, with an accompanying variety of both domestic and international support for the endeavour. Whilst it is true that the fight there has attracted a large number of fighters who are no longer a threat to the domestic US, it is also true that (a) It has increased the numbers of people who would like to cause harm to the US, and (b) Not -all- threats to the US are in Iraq now. London should be a timely reminder of that fact.

I believe the current administration had the right idea, but went about it the wrong way, completely forgetting that the war isn't won with bullets and holding ground, but it is a war of perception from the US voters, the international community, and those who might wish America harm.

I believe that Iraq will turn out for the best, eventually. If there are any long-term winners from this whole deal, actually, I think it's the next generation of Iraqis. They got rid of a dictator, they are receiving the new version of the Marshall Plan, and have guaranteed security from the one remaining Superpower in the world. The country is improving as a place to live.

At any rate, we have made our bed, and now must sleep in it. I think all the dollars and manpower could have probably been better spent on the intelligence services, and a few well-placed kidnappings/blackmails/assasinations and the ilk, but that option is past. We will be in Iraq as long as it takes, and that's going to be a long time, I fear.

As for 'Iran next', or Syria, or whatever, with what army? We're short enough just trying to hold Iraq together. Actually, it might be a way of getting Russia back in the superpower business. After that little Kosovo stunt, they've not had very much good news. Certainly only they would be in a position to take Iran these days. I can't think of any other country with the logistical and military ability to do it. That includes the US.

So to answer the original question... I think the US is marginally safer than it was before, but it was done using an axe instead of a scalpel, and so we are not at the level of safety that I think we had the potential to be.

NTM

Quoted: No, but we did need to so we could cover up all the oil deals in Afganistan.

lol. Please tell me you left the /joke tag off of that.

Quoted: The only reason we are still there is because the men of Iraq won't stand on their own two feet and take their country back from these demonic, head sawing, body mutilating murderers. ...but then again, what do you expect when you fight for another persons freedom. You know going into it that they lack the nuts to do anything about it themselves, hell, that's why you're there.

You're full of shit. They are doing just that, by the tens of thousands - and you call 'coward' a whole society of people who for 25 YEARS have 14 seperate 'Internal Security' services feeding anyone who had any balls into SHREDDERS. wtf. I mean WTF.

And nevermind the historically-ignorant crap you posted about people not standing up after you fight for them - who the fuck do you think is standing there with us? Troops from Japan. Poland. Danes. Brits. Salvadorans fer fucks sake.

Quoted: Only God know's the REAL reasons (there's more than one I'm sure) we are there.  Stupidity and very poor thought process of the US leadership.   The Bull is in the China shop and now we got to pay for all the glass we broke. We were INVADERS of a soveign country.  No WMD's.  What a royal F.U.   I pity our English friends as they too got sucked in and came to our side - THANK YOU BRITS, I'll Remember we owe you one. The weirdest thing is this, the Democrates failed to exploit this MASSIVE misjudgement of the Republican Administration.     Neither party has anything to brag about. Support the soldiers - SURE.  This ill-conceived war?  I don't think so.   The most sickening part (besides the unnecessary deaths of THEM and US) is that come next election, the Wicked Witch of NY will be our next leader.

And who the fuck is THIS Moby ?  "progunvoter" my ass.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. The people of today if alive during WWII would have quit somewhere in the middle of the Battle of Guadalcanal. Al-Qaeda is apparently right we are to weak, short sighted, and stupid to beat them. BFD. We'll kick there ass again, too. We disrupted the Euro corruption train, disrupted Saddam's WMD programs, disrupted his hositng of a string of famous terrorists, disrupted his payouts of $25,000 to the families of Pali suicide bombers, and put "PAID" to his murderous ass for the sacking of Kuwait and menacing of OUR Oil. Not too leave out Kaddafi pissing himself and turning over his nuke hardware. "Morons. I've got morons on my team." WRONG. When we defeated Japan we established a puppet state and kept a very tight reign on it. That is not happening in Iraq. The Islamic Republic of Iraq will someday become a state sponsor of terror and again threaten the security of the US.

Quoted: This was an adventure of the Bush administration pure and simple.  Hindsight is 20/20, and it's clear that not only was our intelligence horrible, but the competence of the review and investigation of it was sorely lacking. If you or I make a decision that costs huge amounts of money based on poor analysis of the available data, especially if we're directly responsible for the review of it, and the people collecting it, we get our asses fired.

Can someone point out to me a SINGLE newb that's joined Arfcom since say Sept 04 that ISN'T a Defeatist Democrat POS?

And I want to give motown_steve a special thanks for giving these LLLiberal cretins a stage to post their garbage in.

Quoted: I support our troops and I support killing militant islamics, but I'm begining to loose faith in the mission. To me, at the moment it's begining to look like we lost nearly 2,000 American soldiers only to establish another Islamic republic which will eventually become another state sponsor of terror. Have we undone ourselves yet again by creating our next enemy (again)?

Yes.

Quoted: While I applaud the removal of S.H. and all that came with him, I remain hopeful that the only barrier that stands in the way of this being our last 'invasion' is one of technology. Namely, a way to safely and economically extract oil from a nuclear wasteland.

Robotic roving drill platforms are already within our techno-grasp. And a few feet of glass is no obstruction.

Quoted: And I want to give motown_steve a special thanks for giving these LLLiberal cretins a stage to post their garbage in.

Man I love your posts… you must take straight caffeine  in an IV drip. Sic em.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. Ask the Marines in ramadi how they're liking their job.  And how many more batallions they think they need. Really?  Why don't you post a link to back up your statement.

He can't, because they aren't doing so.

Fast_Jimmy, THIS Marine would like to meet you for lunch. I've got a nice fist sammich for you.

Quoted: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=373645 Like I have said before killing terrorists is just a short term solution in the war on terrorism.  Spreading the seeds of democracy is the long term solution.

+1

Making one of the shithole terror supporting nations a stable working democracy is the goal.  It is the only way to take the offensive in the WOT.  Iraq was a convenient target, the same way Normandy was.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isolationism doesn't work.  Plain and simple.  It got us 9-11-2001. All you ever heard about in the MSM is bad things.  You never hear about the 1000 good things that are going on.  A lie said enough times starts to sound like the truth.  Talk to someone who has been to Iraq to find out how things are going.  They are going pretty well.  Do a little research and look up the occupation of germany.  The US military has done a hell of a job, and continues to do so. Ask the Marines in ramadi how they're liking their job.  And how many more batallions they think they need. Really?  Why don't you post a link to back up your statement. Fair enough.   Here's a link: www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050729/infantrycover.art.htm And a quote from the story: Clerics have routinely preached violence against Marines. Early this month, loudspeakers from the Saman Mosque in Ramadi blared: “My God: Victory to the enemy of America!” Marines estimate that there are roughly 2,000 potential insurgent fighters here, rallied by a hard core of perhaps 150 full-time combatants skilled at sniping and roadside bomb ambushes. Suicide car bombers are also a threat. “They kill us. We kill them,” Smith says grimly. He could easily use two more battalions of about 850 Marines each, he says.

Crapola - go google that reporter's name and see the string of defeatist claptrap he writes - or even better, the story of the female Pali suicide bomber which he did nothing to notify the Israelis about. he's an amoral POS, just like you.
Ramadi and the rest of that quadrant was and is under a huge operation right now, with plenty of troops crawling all over it - where do you thing the Marine casualties of last week came from? Did you think they were just picked off while minding their own business?
Also note that the POS reporter did NOT put that in quotes - those are the reporter's words.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And that article was published before the US offensive in Ramadi, right?  So what has happened to those 2000 insurgents now?  They bunch up, they die. That article was published for the last weekend in July, 29,30, 31.  Just happened to pick up a USA today when I saw a marine wearing sunglasses, looking pretty cool, getting ready to start his third tour in Iraq. They describe Ramadi as the capital of the insurgency. And, if there's been a fallujah style cleansing of the city, it was kept pretty secret in the last week and a half. Late last week or early this week after the insurgency started, there was a new offensive launched by the marines and Iraqi forces.  It was even given a name, but don't remember what it was. Yeah, it was a 1000 unit operation for border interdiction related, I believe, to the bombing of the marine LTV.  Had nothing to do with Ramadi

Fucking completely wrong. The Operation is throughout that entire quadrant, including the area Ramadi is in, and it started BEFORE the Marine Amtrac was hit. That unit was participating IN that Operation at the time.

But if you watch only LLLiberal bullshit MSM, where they are deliberately misrepresenting the operation as a RESPONSE to that attack, you'd be here spouting just wtf you are.

It's called Operation Quick Strike, it's across and throughout Anbar province, and it kicked off BEFORE the Marine Reserve unit snipers and amtrac were hit. There were conducting Ops as PART of Quick Strike.

Can someone point out to me a SINGLE newb that's joined Arfcom since say Sept 04 that ISN'T a Defeatist Democrat POS?

Me!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You do realize that the vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?  You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq.  Somehow I don't think you understand these facts.   That sounds great.   Prove it with links to numbers/stories that confirm it. You know those Al Qaeda people in Iraq who are claiming most of the bombings?  They're not from Iraq. I know that the actual suicide bombers are predominately saudi.  That in no way confirms your very general statement though.  What's the sunni makeup?  Baathists?  It's a mix.

That doesn't even make sense - you don't even know what those labels mean, do you.
Saudi, Jordanian, Syrian, Kuwaiti, Afghani, Libyan, Egyptian and Brit NATIONALS have been picked up / killed while fighting against US troops in Iraq.

Sunnis are a major branch of Islam. There are Sunni Saudis, Sunni Turks, Sunni Syrians.
Sunnis were the minority in charge of Iraq under Saddam. They brutally repressed the majority Shiite (another major branch of Islam) population.
The Ba'ath Socialist Party ruled Iraq, under Saddam. That group ALSO rules Syria and is doing everything they possibly can to destabilize Iraq in a desperate attempt to save their OWN asses in their OWN country.
Not all Sunnis are Iraqi.
Not all Sunnis are Baathists
Not all Baathists are Iraqi.

There IS a hardcore remainder of the former regime - Iraqi Baathist Sunnis - trying to kill our people, destabilize the country so they can RESUME Power.
There is a seperate element of Shiite following Iranian Mullah orders, taking their arms and money to kill our people and destabilize the country so they can ASSUME Power.
ETA - that rotten-toothed fuckface Muqtada Al Sadr is an Iranian Puppet / usurper, trying to shove aside the established Shiite leadership in Iraq - it was his hotheads that we fought at Al-Najaf and in the Shiite slum 'Sadr City' in NE Baghdad - named after his Dad(? uncle?)
And there are swarms of foreign-national jihadists, there to kill our people, destabilize the country and try to bring about the Sharia-state / Islamic Caliphate of old.

Sometimes they work together. Sometimes, like they did a few weeks ago at Qaim, they try very hard to kill each other.

They all have to be dealt with in different, overlapping ways. And every foreign jihadi that flocks to Iraq to throw themselves on our guns is one less to sneak across the mesican border.

The way I see it, (and who am I? just some working stiff trying to better myself and family), is that there are a few things that are hindering the stability in Iraq. (Granted, these are NOT the only things, just a few in the "World According to s1rGr1nG0)

First, the Iraqi's need to get up off thier ass and fight for what is thiers. The insurgents have to hide somewhere and someone knows where that is. Turn those fuckers in, or better yet, kill them yourself.

Second, it's hard to feel good about your county when you only have running water and electricity for a few hours a day. That directly relates to #1 because the fucking insurgents target infrastructure to keep the people down.

Third, EDUCATION! The insurgents have an endless supply of "Matyrs" because, to be honest, the people in the region are not that educated. Show them that there is a better way to live. I'm NOT saying give everyone a dvd-surround-sound-uber-internet-ready-toaster. I'm saying show them that raising your family and working to provide for them are much better alternatives to strapping a couple pounds of explosive to your body and blowing up your neighbors.
How do you do that? Education.

Just my .02 Right? Wrong? Who knows...

Quoted: Come on.  Don't play the straw man game with me.  You claimed the 'vast vast majority of Iraqi's hate the insurgent terrorists worse then anything?', and have provided no information to back that up. You claimed 'You also realize that the vast majority of insurgents in Iraq right now aren't even from Iraq', also with only anecdotal evidence, and that provided by me!   These are generalizations you still haven't supported. While most of the suicide bombers are saudi, not all 'insurgents' are suicide bombers.   What I want from you is: 1.  A breakdown, by nationality, of the 'insurgency' as defined by organized resistance to coalition forces.  Provide this, and then we can decide if your 'vast majority' comments are true. 2.  A recent thorough polling of the Iraqis and their views of the insurgency, or a reasonable facsimile.   This should have been provided as backup when I first asked for it, if it's available.

Screw you, you wanna-be taskmaster - who the fuck are you to throw out bullshit then demand a 10,000-word time-waisting rebuttal to your arrogant ignorance.

Here, go choke on a few of these -

Anger Against Iraqi Insurgents Grows - Mar 4 2005
www.ksdk.com/printfullstory.aspx?storyid=76135

More Iraqis tipping off security forces on insurgent actions - Apr 3 2005
www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050403/news_1n3tips.html

And WTF do you call the big turnout at the Iraqi Elections and their defiant upraised blue fingers?

And just a few months ago there was a Liberal-MSM Poll of Iraqis that the Beeb could barely choke out the responses on, showing a majority of Iraqis were angry at teh "Insurgents". I'll have to google it up just to cram down your lying ignorant bullshit-vomiting throat.

Quoted: No we did not invade Iraq to make America safer. It was a political move and our armed forces are the ones paying the price for a bad decision. Roy

See what I'm saying?  Who are these assclowns?

My answer to the original question posted here is YES...

I completely support the war, and if anyone really belives that because we have not found the "WMD's" in Iraq truly means that they were never there, I say you are a dumb ass. Saddam knew we were coming for months, and was surrounded by "allies" who were more than happy to assist in hiding the WMD's and then redistribute them into Iraq in the form of IED's and the like.

Now, having said that, I belive that the Bush administrations stratagies going in were half-assed, and they now need to go back to the drawing board and re-assess their/our strategy in Iraq.

Suspend the fucking Space program, and use the Hundreds of Billions of dollars to instead supply the troops with body armor, ammunition, tanks/armored vehicles and all that good shit.

Redeploy all of the "Peace-keeping" forces out of Kosovo and everywhere else, and into Iraq so we have the manpower to get the job done.

Use whatever money we have left-over to fund a alternate source of energy research program.

Fuck drilling in Alaska, there aint enough oil there to sustain the US for 10 years.

Then move onto Iran...