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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:07:11 AM EDT
[#1]
If they show up between dusk and dawn, yes. Might get sued though. But the law is designed for only things that might actually happen in real life... not for "what ifs" posed by disbeleving out of staters... |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:10:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Still not seeing how you meet (2) in 9.42 for an ordinary trespasser who is just standing on your porch . . . help me out here.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:17:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Some guy standing on your porch whom you do not reasonably believe to have criminal intent does not meet 9.42 (2). That's why we still have Jehovah's witnesses in TX. The dipshit in question (DIQ) met requirements of 9.42 (2). |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:18:26 AM EDT
[#4]
If y'all re-read the TX statute, you may want to take note of the keyword 'Reasonable'. This word, 'Reasonable', is subjective and tends to open the clause up to interpretation.
Any interpretation, by a DA, would involve defining 'reasonable' by comparison to precedents set in prior case law. If a DA decides that his definition of 'reasonable' does not match yours, you will likely stand trial for some sort of homicide. Killing some idiot for breaking your porch light, may not stand the DA's test of 'reasonable'. It might, but again, it might not. It is generally accepted that lethal force is permitted if you 'reasonably' feel your life is in danger or your are in danger of 'serious' bodily injury. Another subjective term, 'serious'. You can take out all the tangos you want....but unless it is a clear cut case that someone intends to kill you or someone else.....you will likely stand trial for homicide in some form. It's all subjective. You pays yer money and takes yer chances. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:18:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Would have been an exciting time at my house.......... 'nuff said.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:25:25 AM EDT
[#6]
He destroyed a porch lamp. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:25:55 AM EDT
[#7]
[Burns]"EEEXCELENT"[/Burns] |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 10:49:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Hand the USP to your wife, I'm guessing the repo man doesn't work alone. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 10:52:41 AM EDT
[#9]
I would certainly consider breaking the light to be equivalent to cutting the phone lines or turning off the power. It is action with obvious malicious intent. I would immediately switch from assuming he was confused or on drugs to assuming he intended my family grave harm, and respond accordingly. Jim |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 11:00:48 AM EDT
[#10]
It is my belief that it would have been a good shoot...trespassing, banging on the door, yelling crazy shit, breaks out the porch light, etc.
Luckily, he didn't, and probably saved himself an assload of trouble...but this 'unlicensed repoman' needs to be taken out of the equation IMHO. If this had happened at my home, I would have assumed it was a home invasion [since I know for a fact that all my payments are current] and shot the fucker. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 11:12:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Open the door, tell him he is a dick sucking faggot and when he coes throught eh door bust a cap in his ass..
Actually, bust about 30 or in my case, 40 caps in his chest. Gee officer, I must habve left the door unlocked and he came in. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 11:14:26 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 8/9/2005 11:23:52 AM EDT
[#13]
im in fort worth, come by my house and try this shit and you will get shot !
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Posted: 8/9/2005 11:38:50 AM EDT
[#14]
now way in hell is it worth shooting this guy if he's not making an attempt to enter your house.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:02:57 PM EDT
[#15]
You have a house full of wife and kids, why give the initiative to him if you're already in the right?? It's 0330 for christsakes. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:13:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Crime report for vandalism (the porch light). Insist on prosecution, hound the DA every day until he files charges.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:19:16 PM EDT
[#17]
I forgot tomention the rottweilers.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:21:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Drive that stupid mofo out of the business. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:34:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Not in Texas pard. Criminal Mischief at night = get DRT. Justifiable homicide. Not saying it's right, just that it's technically legal. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:47:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Only if the shooter "reasonably believes that (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury." So it's not a slam dunk acquittal, and in any event the legal costs and civil suit are going to make your life and finances a shambles for a while. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:56:55 PM EDT
[#21]
This took place in either Dallas or Tarrant Co (not sure if it is south of DFW airport or the DFW metromess), or possibly in Johnson or Ellis Co. The DAs here are not going to have the interpretation of "reasonable" that you seem to think they do. There is A LOT of just this sort of precedent in TX. I remember one case where a guy standing outside of a coed's apartment window was shot and killed for just standing there. No billed by the GJ, no charges from the DA (Travis Co, late 80s IIRC). And if you think that breaking a light isn't justification, you don't have a good defense attorney. The homeowner now is facing an aggressive party at his door who has taken an effort to conceal his identity and purpose when the homeowner tried to identify him. The homeowner now has no idea who is outside his door or even how many and for what purpose. Given the late hour and the beligerent nature of the intruder, he was more than justified. Remeber, he's got a family inside too. The continued aggressive actions of the intruder attempting to find a way into the house was further justification. In Texas, protection of property is justification for lethal force in some circumstances in addition to the protection of life and limb. By both statute and case law, this event met the standard. I don't care what is "generally accepted" when you have statutory and case law that trumps what is "generally accepted." Again, I'm not saying that it's right, but that is the law here. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:58:50 PM EDT
[#22]
How long have you lived in Texas? I'm just telling you that there have been numerous events like this that have not resulted in any criminal charges. Civil matters are a whole other issue. And from the situation described, it meets the criteria. ETA: Your criteria only applies to the use of force in regard to burglary, robbery, agg robbery, or theft and relates to the recovery of property taken by such. The prevention of criminal mischief and the additional offenses listed do not require the conditions you quoted. There is no property to be recovered if the offense is prevented by using force, and his conduct would certainly place a reasonable person in fear of leaving the house to try other means of preventing what was an illegal act on the part of the intruder. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:09:56 PM EDT
[#23]
He said SOMEONE, not refering to the person in this story.
He means that if SOMEONE had paid their bill this would be a non-story. Someone does not have to mean the his friend.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:10:42 PM EDT
[#24]
+10 |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:13:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Good on your friend for keeping his cool and staying inside.
I would have went outside... Imagine the headlines.... "Hive mind, why does this large man in my cell want to make man love to me???" eek! 
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:20:08 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm glad he didn't shoot too. Even given the climate here, I personally don't think it's a good idea to shoot in that circumstance. But that's given what we know now, after the fact and with time to think it through. When it's 0330 and some nut you don't know is ranting outside your door, breaks the light when you attempt to ID him, scratches around outside the house, and mamacita and the critters are upset? The dude showed a lot more restraint than some people I've seen and heard about. Even driving marked units and in uniform it's generally not a good idea to go walking around somebody's house, much less with the added details of his conduct and the time of night.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:21:57 PM EDT
[#27]
so do you think you're going to shoot him and go to bed????? Why shoot a guy that poses no actual thtreat? He's outside of your house. You're armed. You're fairly safe. Call the cops. If he tries to enter, dump a mag. I don't care what state you're in...if you shoot a dude outside of your house and there's no sign of attempted entry, you're spending the rest of the night/day talking to investigators - at a minimum. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:28:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Better safe than sorry. If you're on my property at night and frightening my family, I'm announcing that you have ten seconds to leave or I will take approriate action to ensure that you are no longer a threat. If they don't believe me, then it really sucks to be them. Darwin award recipient in the making if you pull this kind of shit in Texas. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:31:47 PM EDT
[#29]
How are the girls doing? |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:34:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Are you saying this knowing what transpired after the guy broke the light, or are you saying it "in the moment" which is what the DA/investigator is going to do? From your answer you are responding to what happened after with the benefit of knowing all of what transpired and what we are accepting as the truth of the event as related. For all the homeowner knows, there are two or three other guys out there. I don't think anybody believes that they are just going to go back to bed, an investigation is going to happen. And even if you shoot somebody INSIDE your house, there's going to be a lengthy investigation. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:35:54 PM EDT
[#31]
I remember reading about a Repo man in Texas who was shot dead on private property in the middle of the night while trying to reposess a vehicle. The homeowner thought someone was stealing his car. The homeowner faced no charges because of Texas' night time raider(s) laws which were originally created to prevent cattle rustling (theft).
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:37:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Could be that, too. For everyone else, take it easy on AR, for Pete's sake! A simple mistake is a simple mistake! Sheesh! 
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:46:23 PM EDT
[#33]
That one was out of Harris County in the 90s from what I remember, and there was a string of them. There have been no-bills on guys shooting young hoods that stole hubcaps, lots of shootings of car thieves, and various other issues that were absouletly no threat to life or limb. For whatever reason, some people that don't live here seem to have a hard time accepting the law as it exists in Texas. Again, I'm not saying that I agree with it, but that's the way our law is written, interpreted, and enforced. Sorry if you don't like it or agree with it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:46:57 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm saying that if I was presented with the exact same situation as described, I'd be well-armed and call 911. If the guy tries to enter, he's dead. Otherwise, the cops can deal with him. I'll go even further....If you want to steal my car....go right ahead. The cops are on the way and I have insurance. BFD. It's simply not worth the trouble to shoot someone. As the saying goes: "Imagine the paperwork" The key difference here is that I don't have the burning urge to shoot someone just because I'm "in the right" although I do realize that this is a common arfcom fantasy |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:50:21 PM EDT
[#35]
You are the official ARFCOM party pooper.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:53:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Believe it or not, I generally agree with you. But I think you have to keep in mind the state of events as they were unfolding and what the impression of the homeowner was, as well as the laws in Texas as opposed to wherever. For me, I'm pretty much with you. Let him walk around the house, but the minute he attempts to gain entry apply the minimum amount of force needed to remove the threat. Of course in my case he will have to have dismounted about 100 yards off from the house and advanced into several lights, and I'm sure that Buffy, Lady, Teaser, Gretchen, and Heidi will have made him feel welcome to the hacienda. The porch lights will have been the least of his worries. Whatever survives and drags itself onto patio will probably not be in much of a mood to do anything but bleed. ETA: For about the 43rd time, I'm not saying that I agree with the justification of shooting him. I'm just surprised that he wasn't shot. And I'm really not fantasizing about shooting somebody, that's what Christy Canyon is for  .
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:58:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Sounds like the only thing he should change is his choice in ammo
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:06:14 PM EDT
[#38]
+1 Repo man....meet ZEUS....Zeus....sick balls!!
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:06:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Are there any Mainers that can help me find the Penal Code like this for our State? Maine I did a google search for it, and wasn't able to find anything like this that is availble for Texas. You guys have got me wondering what is allowed in my state when it comes to using deadly force. Sorry to hijack the thread. M4-CQBR |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:08:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Really thought the Travis County incident was more recent. Detail I rember is that she shot him in the back. I think she got off, but if I rember it did go to at liest grand jurry. Lets face it, shooting someone in the back as they are running away from you in AUSTIN is about as extream of test on the Texas law as you can get.
IMHO Texas law is such that most of the time, there should be clear and present danger. Nightime limits your ability to access the situation, so the clear an present danger is MUCH smaller hurtle. Someone trying to break into my house during the daytime "MIGHT" be a clear and present danger, but at night is a no-brainer. Why the repo man was trying to break into the house leaves me clueless. I go with "unlicensed repo man" is a nice way to say burglar. In my chl class, the instructor did mention that theft in itself is almost never an excuse to shoot. As long as you have insurance there is another way to "recover" your property. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:25:22 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:31:04 PM EDT
[#42]
IIRC there was a case in Texas where a repoguy showed up at 3am to repo this guys truck and the owner saw him and shot him with some old rifle. The guy took off in his truck and died about 5 minutes later, the owner was cleared of everything.
Ben |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:37:20 PM EDT
[#43]
12 gauge 00 buck , no freaking questions asked. as soon as he came into my property and started to deastroy sheeuuut. too bad so sad , stupid f*(k! oh by the way my first and only words to come outta my mouth to th police is " officer i did nothing wrong" and will not answer anymore questions without my "shark" being present.
meat |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 2:57:37 PM EDT
[#44]
DUH! 
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Posted: 8/9/2005 3:35:19 PM EDT
[#45]
The Travis County one that I am referring to took place when I was at UT Austin. Got there in 89, left in 93. It would not surprise me if there was another one. The only reason I remember a lot about this one is that my girlfriend lived in the same complex. These things happen quite a bit in Texas. And the nighttime requirements are there due to the more restrictive environment. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#46]
That was down around Houston I think. Might have been one of the suburbs like Deer Park or Pasadena, or at least in SE Houston. There's not a whole lot of the UHaul Army down there, and they don't play around. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 3:38:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Might want to try the Maine Hometown forum, or just move to TX and make it easy on yourself. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 3:39:25 PM EDT
[#48]
I thought you could just shoot someone on your property in Texas after dark.
I say the guy should be prosecuted fot trespass, (going into back yard) and vandalism. (breaking the light) Maybe even disturbing the peace. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 3:40:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Not in Texas! |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 4:01:05 PM EDT
[#50]
I chose my words carefully, said "someone" to refer to the deadbeat, and "you" in the general sense when illustrating an example, didn't mean "you" in the poster's sense. It's common and acceptable English. Another example, "When you gotta go you gotta go!". Now is "you" referring to "KA3B" specifically? No. Unless he has to go ETA: see definition 2. at www.meriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=you&x=0&y=0 "2. One" |
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