Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When a patient/customer makes an appointment it is not unreasonable for them to expect too see the doctor in a timely manner unless there are extenuating circumstances and under these circumstances a nurse or staff member should inform the patient/customer giving them the option to either wait or re-schedule the appointent. I agree 100% and try too. Indeed and judging from the posts in this thread I can only say that I am glad that Rebel_Marine is not my Primary Care Physician.  He appears to have issues.

Likewise I am sure.

Quoted: I see little relevancy to much of anything you've said either regardless of the fact that you bitched about having to wait.

See Thread Topic: "General •  General Discussion • Why do you ALWAYS have to wait at the doctor's office?"

Now if you want your own thread in which you can bitch about the abhorrent behavior of your patients/customers and/or your horrid life as a doctor I am sure you can figure out how to start one.

BTW:  You seem to have a great bedside manner.

Quoted: Free drug samples that the doc sends you home with are from the drug reps.  Free to you,  but he had to pay by listening to a cheesy marketing pitch sometimes very valuable presentation on current medical topics directly related to the same reason you're in there to see the physician.  By law, drug reps can ONLY discuss or present FDA approved clinical information that is UNBIASED and relevant to the physicians patient population. There are other times when it's nothing more that a social vist with the doctor just making sure he's happy with the service he's receiving from XYZ drug company.  It's always business though.

fixed it for ya!

If it cost enough out of pocket it would reduce the waiting time a lot.

It's free or low cost for most people so you have to wait.

Simple economics.

Dennis Jenkins

Quoted: and the general attitude seems to be that of "fuck you, you WILL wait and like it"? If ANY other business made customers wait the way the healthcare industry does, they'd be out of business in a heartbeat.  I can understand a periodic wait, but you fucking wait in the waiting room, then get to go into the room where you see the doc.....and wait some more.  If you need an x-ray or something you fucking wait in about 3 different places.  This never changes - you ALWAYS wait fucking forever. When I was in IT I did some work at hospitals and the staff NEVER wanted to collect metrics on scheduling or how long people were having to wait.  I just think they don't give a fuck.  The process could be improved, but it sucks.  And even little things take forever - my wife is pregnant and they left the room for her to change back into her clothes after an exam - alas, we had to wait 20 fucking minutes!  I could have sewn her a set of clothes in 20 minutes. The costs I am ok with, the weird and convoluted billing I am ok with, but waiting pisses me off.  I was threatened ONCE when I told the nurse I was leaving (for an important meeting) after waiting forever, that I would have to pay for the appointment if I left.  Once. Don't healthcare professionals know or care how fucking arrogant it makes them look?  It's just taken for granted that I have 45 fucking minutes to wait to see the doctor for 5 minutes.

Quoted: Quoted: I see little relevancy to much of anything you've said either regardless of the fact that you bitched about having to wait. See Thread Topic: "General •  General Discussion • Why do you ALWAYS have to wait at the doctor's office?" Now if you want your own thread in which you can bitch about the abhorrent behavior of your patients/customers and/or your horrid life as a doctor I am sure you can figure out how to start one. BTW:  You seem to have a great bedside manner.

Your point is legit, I'd get rid of you in short order. No doubt I've dealt with a few of your kind.
If you want to turn this into something personal take it to IM.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see little relevancy to much of anything you've said either regardless of the fact that you bitched about having to wait. See Thread Topic: "General •  General Discussion • Why do you ALWAYS have to wait at the doctor's office?" Now if you want your own thread in which you can bitch about the abhorrent behavior of your patients/customers and/or your horrid life as a doctor I am sure you can figure out how to start one. BTW:  You seem to have a great bedside manner. Your point is legit, I'd get rid of you in short order. No doubt I've dealt with a few of your kind. If you want to turn this into something personal take it to IM.

Great, maybe we can schedule a duel.

Of the many types of doctors out there, I'd like to point out 2 simple distinguations:

a) Doctor with good bedside manner = happy patiens in office, patients leave with a smile

b) Well educated / Smart Doctor / Thought leader in medicine = healthier patients with better longevity

Some doctors have both, but more often, are stronger in one area than another.

If you get one that has both qualities, be patient and happy that you'll be getting the best patient care available to you.  Good health is worth waiting for.

Why do you ALWAYS have to wait at the doctor's office?

Do what I did to my Doc, I asked her this same question a couple of years ago after waiting for over an hour

She told me a bunch of stuff that really didn't make a lot of sense to me, I nodded and agreed.
I then asked her what would happen if I made her wait........she said it would screw up her appointments for the rest of the day.
I let her know that even as a low life factory worker that I to had shit that needed to get done before I go to work and I think that I should not have to pay the office visit charge for waiting as long as I had to.

Well long story short .............the $40.00 co-pay was wavied, and every visit since then I dont wait anymore

Quoted: Quoted: When a patient/customer makes an appointment it is not unreasonable for them to expect too see the doctor in a timely manner unless there are extenuating circumstances There are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances. I don't know what kind of doctors you guys plan on going to but I got a feeling when the S truly HTF that you might wish you had another at the time.

I've gone to the emergency room in the middle of the afternoon when only 2 or 3 other folks were there, and had to wait a total of four hours, with the doctor coming by eventually after hour number 2.  The nurses and doctors were standing around chatting for the last hour, while I was waiting on my discharge papers to be completed.  They don't give a shit about how long they make you wait.

I will say that when I went to the emergency room with chest pains last year, everything moved a lot quicker.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see little relevancy to much of anything you've said either regardless of the fact that you bitched about having to wait. See Thread Topic: "General •  General Discussion • Why do you ALWAYS have to wait at the doctor's office?" Now if you want your own thread in which you can bitch about the abhorrent behavior of your patients/customers and/or your horrid life as a doctor I am sure you can figure out how to start one. BTW:  You seem to have a great bedside manner. Your point is legit, I'd get rid of you in short order. No doubt I've dealt with a few of your kind. If you want to turn this into something personal take it to IM. Great, maybe we can schedule a duel.

Aha!
That leaves me with choice of weapon, I believe!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When a patient/customer makes an appointment it is not unreasonable for them to expect too see the doctor in a timely manner unless there are extenuating circumstances and under these circumstances a nurse or staff member should inform the patient/customer giving them the option to either wait or re-schedule the appointent. There are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances. I don't know what kind of doctors you guys plan on going to but I got a feeling when the S truly HTF that you might wish you had another at the time.

If you're going to quote me please do not quote me out of context.

Can anyone else provide some serious input about my prostate exam?

Quoted: Can anyone else provide some serious input about my prostate exam?

If he reached around with both hands wiggling them in front of you and saying, "tada" while you got your exam, you might have been violated.


I don't know bud, sounds pretty damn bogus to me. Sure not the way I was trained. I'll bet he had a great bedside manner though.

Quoted: Can anyone else provide some serious input about my prostate exam?

I have been a neutural observer in many DRE procedures as part of my previous line of work.  It's a relatively quick and simple procedure where he inserts a gloved and lubricated finger into your rectum until it reaches the area of your prostate.  He then feels around the prostate glands (which is about the size of a walnut) for any abnormalities in size, texture, or shape.  Based on his professional analysis, he should be able to indicate to you how healthy your prostate is.  There are additional tests however that can tell you even further if you have anything to worry about such as a PSA test (prostate specific antigen test) which is a good indicator of any signs of developing prostate cancer.   Overall, the DRE should only take under a minute and the PSA test is a lab test that may take a day or so to get the results.

What else would you like to know?

Guys... You shouldn't joke about prostate exams.  Having these regularly can help prevent the early progression of prostate cancer which is one of the TOP killers of men over the age of 65 in the US.  Before it was decided that Prostate Exams should be given at routine intervals after the age of 50, many men died of prostate cancer because they were either not diagnosed or diagnosed to late.  It's the equivalent of breast cancer in women.  There's noting to joke about it with men.  It's serious stuff.

Tag for doctor's responses.  I double dog dare ARDOC to include a juicy tidbit of what keeps him truly waiting!

Patty

Quoted: Quoted: Can anyone else provide some serious input about my prostate exam? I have been a neutural observer in many DRE procedures as part of my previous line of work.  It's a relatively quick and simple procedure where he inserts a gloved and lubricated finger into your rectum until it reaches the area of your prostate.  He then feels around the prostate glands (which is about the size of a walnut) for any abnormalities in size, texture, or shape.  Based on his professional analysis, he should be able to indicate to you how healthy your prostate is.  There are additional tests however that can tell you even further if you have anything to worry about such as a PSA test (prostate specific antigen test) which is a good indicator of any signs of developing prostate cancer.   Overall, the DRE should only take under a minute and the PSA test is a lab test that may take a day or so to get the results. What else would you like to know?

From above:

This reminds me of something that maybe you guys can answer: Several years ago I had prostatitis. I had 2 prostate exams. One was "normal" - pull the cheeks apart, lube the finger with K-Y, and stick it in. Fair enough - not my or my doctor's favorite part of the day.

The next time I went, my doctor was on vacation so I saw this indian dude. He lubed up his whole hand with K-Y rather than just the finger. Then, rather than pulling my ass cheek to the side, he worked his hand up and down my asscrack, slowly working his way to my asshole. Once he was there, he slid the finger in. Honestly, I felt a little violated, like it was fucking foreplay or something with him sliding his hand up and down like that.

So serious question - is there a "standard" or commonly accepted way of doing this? I honestly don't think they guy was a pervert or anything, but that it was a matter of technique. I'd rather not have my whole asscrack massaged, and it just seemed too weird to me. Besides it was actually kind of hard to clean up afterward with all that K-Y on my ass, up to my shirt.

Quoted: This reminds me of something that maybe you guys can answer: Several years ago I had prostatitis. I had 2 prostate exams. One was "normal" - pull the cheeks apart, lube the finger with K-Y, and stick it in. Fair enough - not my or my doctor's favorite part of the day. The next time I went, my doctor was on vacation so I saw this indian dude. He lubed up his whole hand with K-Y rather than just the finger. Then, rather than pulling my ass cheek to the side, he worked his hand up and down my asscrack, slowly working his way to my asshole. Once he was there, he slid the finger in. Honestly, I felt a little violated, like it was fucking foreplay or something with him sliding his hand up and down like that. So serious question - is there a "standard" or commonly accepted way of doing this? I honestly don't think they guy was a pervert or anything, but that it was a matter of technique. I'd rather not have my whole asscrack massaged, and it just seemed too weird to me. Besides it was actually kind of hard to clean up afterward with all that K-Y on my ass, up to my shirt.

A standard prostate exam is called a DRE (Digital Rectal Exam).  No digital does not refer to computers, but rather to the digit (a finger).  All that is needed to adequately perform a DRE is ONLY 1 finger in your rectum.  Doctors should be well trained to feel for any abnormatlities on your prostate this way, and it is the most common way of doing a prostate exam.  Any other excessive amount of lube on other fingers or ass massaging is not necessary, however, every doctor, I'm sure, has his own style of making this most comfortable for the patients.  I guess some doctors like to take the less direct approach and work their way in slowly.  It's not sick and perverted, just their technique.  So long as he doesnt shove his whole fist up there, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can anyone else provide some serious input about my prostate exam? I have been a neutural observer in many DRE procedures as part of my previous line of work.  It's a relatively quick and simple procedure where he inserts a gloved and lubricated finger into your rectum until it reaches the area of your prostate.  He then feels around the prostate glands (which is about the size of a walnut) for any abnormalities in size, texture, or shape.  Based on his professional analysis, he should be able to indicate to you how healthy your prostate is.  There are additional tests however that can tell you even further if you have anything to worry about such as a PSA test (prostate specific antigen test) which is a good indicator of any signs of developing prostate cancer.   Overall, the DRE should only take under a minute and the PSA test is a lab test that may take a day or so to get the results. What else would you like to know? From above: This reminds me of something that maybe you guys can answer: Several years ago I had prostatitis. I had 2 prostate exams. One was "normal" - pull the cheeks apart, lube the finger with K-Y, and stick it in. Fair enough - not my or my doctor's favorite part of the day. The next time I went, my doctor was on vacation so I saw this indian dude. He lubed up his whole hand with K-Y rather than just the finger. Then, rather than pulling my ass cheek to the side, he worked his hand up and down my asscrack, slowly working his way to my asshole. Once he was there, he slid the finger in. Honestly, I felt a little violated, like it was fucking foreplay or something with him sliding his hand up and down like that. So serious question - is there a "standard" or commonly accepted way of doing this? I honestly don't think they guy was a pervert or anything, but that it was a matter of technique. I'd rather not have my whole asscrack massaged, and it just seemed too weird to me. Besides it was actually kind of hard to clean up afterward with all that K-Y on my ass, up to my shirt.

Lube tip of gloved finger.
Push pulpy part of tip of index finger against anus until it relaxes
insert, bend tip, insert further.
Check prostate, check for masses on way out
guaiac stool

Offer patient a cigarette.

My dad is a Gastro doc.  Trust me he has plenty of stories.

I have a uniqe perspective on this, as having been a patient, a son of a doc who tells me the other side, and employee of the surgery department of two hospitals.

Many doctor visits do only requier a few minutes.  And of course there are always the delays to the doctor's time.  I have been to some docs that repeatadly had me wait two hours.  Now, I know his doctor cause I saw him that morning in surgery as I did every morning.  This fella needed to learn that his morning surgeries were severly cutting into his afternoon office work.  That kind of office management of course is terrible.  Anyone who goes through that has a valid complaint.

If you are going to see a doc who happens to be on call that week, well, then you could be in for a wait even though that doc happens to usually be on time.  His staff should be informed of where he is and they should let those waiting know that there is going to be a delay and offer the choice of a reshedule or to wait it out.  When my dad is on call, he sees no patients at his office.  It cuts into his revenue, but he does so to keep things simple.

Where the benefit of understanding needs to be applied is when the doc has a patient in the office to relate some recently discovered bad news.  Fatal illness etc,.  Then the whole family needs the explanation and shoulder to cry on.  Compound the time when working through an interpreter.  Make it longer if the patient was at the hospital and is critical.  These visits can rarely be timed.  You show up for your afternoon appointment and well those who were before you get to go first, since they were there waiting it out, then you have to wait.  Of course the staff can inform you of this.

My dad is 59 and comes from the older school of practicing medicine.  He tells you that you have to have emergency surgery at another facility, he is walking with you to the heli-pad to see you off in the middle of the night.  We have been family to some of his patients and he has even taken a carpenter's built deer blinds in return of services.  Shoot we had the fella come hunt out of them.

I do try to remember these things when I see a doc, but repeated long waits at the same place means some problems need to be taken care of.  Like the surgeon I talked about.

Quoted: I've gotten up and walked out of doctor's offices and dentist's offices on several occasions already. Once I feel I've waited an unreasonable length of time, I just blow my stack and bolt. I think anything more than 30minutes wait is completely rude on behalf of the doctor's office. WTF is an appointment for ?

This is because the Doctor is out to lunch or flirting with his nurses. I have seen the behind the scenes alot and have alot of Doctor friends. They laugh about it. I have sat back and talked at length with Doctors who have patients waiting. I know I am not the only one. Sad actually.

Damn, I go to the doctor a lot and the longest I've waited is 15 minutes past my appointment time. I guess I'm lucky that I go to the Mayo Clinic for all my medical needs.
Emergency room longest wait was 25 minutes.

Quoted: Lube tip of gloved finger. Push pulpy part of tip of index finger against anus until it relaxes insert, bend tip, insert further. Check prostate, check for masses on way out guaiac stool Offer patient a cigarette.

But every doctor's office is a business. No business can exist without customers.

True, but people sometimes have to suffer with doctors or live in pain or even die.  They're guaranteed patients no matter how badly they treat them.  There's no other choice for us.  They have a group of customers where most can not do without their services, and the medical industry is not a free market.  The AMA works hard to make sure they maintain their monopoly to limit the number of doctors to create this tremendous demand and lack of services.

In the past 20 years, I have never waited less than two hours at the doctor my wife goes to.  I want to take her elsewhere, but she likes him so I have to take her to him.  He's a nice guy, but completely clueless when it comes to why there's a problem with making people routinely wait two or more hours each visit.  His excuse is that because his father did it and all of his friends that are doctors do it that it must be acceptable.  Instead it's laziness on his office staff's part.  They make all of the morning appointments at 10AM and the afternoon appointments at 1PM.  They leave 8-10 open for patients that were there the day before but didn't get to see the doctor before he left.

The thing that bugs me more than the sometimes four+ hour waits is when it's 5PM on Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday and you're still waiting, you will not see the doctor.  He leaves for the day whether or not there are patients waiting.  It's worse on Wednesday at 2PM when he leaves to play golf (with the owner of the company I work for, so I know what he's doing).  Twice in a row my wife after her stroke, she didn't get to see the doctor before he left.  She couldn't remember her own name or any other words so she had to see a doctor, and we waited about seven hours total over three days.  Also, I have to take time off of work to spend money on the doctor, so taking that much time off is very painful.

With the disrespectful manner I see doctors treat patients, I'm very surprised you don't see more patients "go postal."  I guess I'm just old and miss the days when the doctor would drive his Buick to come see you.z

Regarding the "doctor responding to an emergency".  I'll allow it happens...SOMETIMES.  But, what should one think when it is 2 out of 3 times?  B.S.  As far as an emergency itself, I'll ask When was the last time a doctor came to you to respond to your emergency?  Is it that your emergency doesn't count as someone else's?  Or, is it B.S.  (we're talking about General Practicioners here; I can see if a surgeon has to run to the hospital for one of the patients he/she performed surgery on).  Though, what is emergency staff for?  And, if you have an emergency at home, what are you told?  Not to come into the office like it was 50 years ago.  You will be told to go to an hospital emergency room.  So, I call B.S. on the emergency.

The real reason for all this is doctor greed.  The more patients they take on, the more their monthly/quarterly check from the insurance company.  I'm talking about the payments they receive from the insurance company just for having you on their list, whether or not they see you.  Didn't know that was done, did you?  So, the more patients, the greater likelihood of office crowding.  And, of course there is their arrogance.  They have set themselves up as gods, and the suckers go along with it and worship them.  So, they can do no wrong.  B.S.

I'm waiting for someone to say," Oh, but the pain and suffering, and they have your life in their hands."  Sounds like the Mafia, too.

There may well be doctors that are prompt and efficient at seeing their patients close to the appointment time, but in over 40 years, I have never experienced one.

Making the paying customer wait is SOP in the medical field.  If a business professional can't make good decisions concerning scheduling his time, I also question his decision making skills in every facet of his business.

"I've got these sky high expenses and insurance", cry me a river.  EVERY business these days have sky high expenses and insurance.

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine Offer patient a cigarette.

Unless it's other than a routine visit (physical, eye checkup, etc) I walk out after waiting 15 minutes past the appt. time.  I leave my business card with the receptionist & ask her to "Please tell the Dr. I was here", noting the time I left on the card.  

It doesn't help with teh wait time, but I feel more in charge of my schedule & the look on the receptionist face is priceless.  I guess not too many folks walk like that....

It's the little things in life that bring enjoyment, and I am easily amused.

ISMO

The reason you wait is so the Dr won't have to.

They figure their time more valuable than yours. (obviously)

If they wanted to, they could schedule things differently, but then, they may lose some of their precious MONEY they love so much.

.............the other day (couple months ago)  I had to go to a doc. to get a scrip for a sinus infection.  I have to pay to have the man authorize me to get the "antibiotic du-jour".  

So, I choose urgent care, because I know I will be in line, and seen in order.  I found that the local urgent care had an appointment system.  I sent an email, was called within the hour, set the appointment, and was seen within 5 minutes of my appointment time.

Fucking amazing.  Maybe they need to include some customer service classes in med school.

Quoted: I've gone to the emergency room in the middle of the afternoon when only 2 or 3 other folks were there, and had to wait a total of four hours, with the doctor coming by eventually after hour number 2.  The nurses and doctors were standing around chatting for the last hour, while I was waiting on my discharge papers to be completed.  They don't give a shit about how long they make you wait. I will say that when I went to the emergency room with chest pains last year, everything moved a lot quicker.

OK, first off - the ER is NOT first come, first served.  That's why there is a triage.  Higher acuity patients get priority.  And it should be no other way.

Secondly, the employees that you see at the ER nurses station are not physicians 90% of the time, they are NURSES.  They can't write scrips, they are waiting for the doc to write your discharge instructions.

If they did not adequately explain this to you, then they messed up.

Of course you are going to get priority triage if you have CP.

Hope that helps.

All the Docs I know bust their asses (Dentist is pretty good too) and I have no problem waiting (I always take a book with me everywhere I go, if I get delayed, no problem, just start reading - lowers BP too...

Where I DO take exception is waiting for a lawyer, especially when they have no qualms about billing per page of fax, per envelope, per paper clip. It's one of the reasons one profession has (and deserves) enormous respect and the other has (and most often deserves) nothing but contempt.

Yes, there are some bad Docs, but I have been nothing but pleased with every last one that I have had occasion to interact with over the years.

One thing that I do, as a patient, is have my shit together when showing up for a visit, list of meds printed out (if more than one or two), chief complaint clearly defined, keep chitchat to a minimum. Try to make their jobs as easy as possible.

I called yestday to get an appointment with an orthopedic.

Put on hold for 13 minutes listening to how "important my call is"

Woman finally picks up. I inform her (politely) that I have been on hold for 13 minutes and is that normal. She actually laughed and said that it was good. "Usually the wait is 20 minutes or more."

I said "ok, thanks, I think I will find another doctor. She chuckled again and said "ok, bye."

Did not care one bit.

I only wish I could have such poor customer service and attitude and yet still be successful.

Medicine is the only service industry where this is possible.

Quoted: Where I DO take exception is waiting for a lawyer, especially when they have no qualms about billing per page of fax, per envelope, per paper clip. It's one of the reasons one profession has (and deserves) enormous respect and the other has (and most often deserves) nothing but contempt.

Typical mis-directed anger.  Here is your solution. Just don't  ever deal with a lawyer again. It's simple. It's your choice.

Lawyers all suck until you need one - then, they are your best friend. Of course, until your case is done and then they suck again and you forget to pay them what they are rightfully owed.

Who do you think wrote 99% of all criminal laws? Who enforces those criminal laws?

Imagine the country with no laws and no court system (all run by lawyers) - and then quit whining.

The Healthcare Industry and physicians in particular are the most regulated general business in the US.  You can not compare medical practice to running any other business.  To think so simply means that you have no clue.  A few points to remember - price controlled by the US Government, more required licenses and certifications than you can imagine,  the burden of liability,  the responsibility of making critical choices, HIPPA, Medicare, Medicaid regulations.  On and on and on.  When was the last time anyone considered suing their plumber or painter.  For a $35.00 office visit the patient can sue almost anytime for anything.

Quoted: The Healthcare Industry and physicians in particular are the most regulated general business in the US.  You can not compare medical practice to running any other business.  To think so simply means that you have no clue.  A few points to remember - price controlled by the US Government, more required licenses and certifications than you can imagine,  the burden of liability,  the responsibility of making critical choices, HIPPA, Medicare, Medicaid regulations.  On and on and on.  When was the last time anyone considered suing their plumber or painter.  For a $35.00 office visit the patient can sue almost anytime for anything.

What does regulation have to do with poor customer service?

Most doctors I know get closer to $90.00 per visit and more if it is an extended visit. Yes, I understand medicare has significant limitations.

Your point seems to be that it is harder for doctors to make money due to the regulations, etc. so they have to overbook to make a buck? Maybe, but that is true for many professions. I work with a lot of doctors and most of them make significantly more income than the mean. Yes, they deserve it. But that does not change the fact that they could schedule less appointments, make less money, and give better customer service.

Based on the couple of times I've been to the doctor in the past several years, and my neighbor's observations as well, I get the distinct impression that many doctors have decided it's better to book patients in "blocks" rather than actual individual appointment times.  In other words, my neighbor walked into the doctor's office at a few minutes before 11:00, the time of the "appointment" he had made.  He was a little surprised to see so many people in the waiting room.  After signing in and sitting for a while, he began to chat with some of the other waiting patients.

"What time is your appointment for?

"11:00"

"Really?  Mine to."

"Me too."

"Same here."

I guess they have several blocks of time throughout the day... 9:00, 11:00, break for lunch, 1:00, 3:00.  As has been mentioned before, this allows them to always have a full queue of patients from which to draw from so as to keep the doc busy all day.  Of course, this is obnoxiously rude and inconsiderate... my time is just as important as theirs.  If I make an appointment, I WANT an APPOINTMENT.

I'm going to the urologist today.  My "apppointment" is for 3:00.  We'll see what happens.

--Mike

Quoted: Quoted: Where I DO take exception is waiting for a lawyer, especially when they have no qualms about billing per page of fax, per envelope, per paper clip. It's one of the reasons one profession has (and deserves) enormous respect and the other has (and most often deserves) nothing but contempt. Typical mis-directed anger.  Here is your solution. Just don't  ever deal with a lawyer again. It's simple. It's your choice. Lawyers all suck until you need one - then, they are your best friend. Of course, until your case is done and then they suck again and you forget to pay them what they are rightfully owed. Who do you think wrote 99% of all criminal laws? Who enforces those criminal laws? Imagine the country with no laws and no court system (all run by lawyers) - and then quit whining.

LOL! Oh yes, do tell us about what a bangup job your profession has done with criminal laws.

I have respect for Doctors because they contribute to society, rather than exist solely as a self-serving parasitic leech, creating an arcane system requiring the services of said leeches to comply with incomprehensible laws designed to line the pockets of said leeches, no matter the outcome.

Thanks to their ilk, we now have to pay an idiot tax on everything, so named because some idiot injured themself (by flossing with a radial arm saw), and a slimebag ambulance chaser drug it into court where a (handpicked) jury awarded a hillion jillion dollars to said idiot and hired leech, and the cost is passed on to the rest of us, the downtrodden radial arm saw owners of America*.

How about the "Tobacco settlement" where BILLIONS were supposed to help people quit & instead the (1/3 or 40%) went to TEAM LEECH and the rest disappeared into politicians' pet projects.

While we are on the subject of politicians: roughly 1/2 the members of Congress are lawyers. Tell us all about how great a job they do, how they are selflessly doing this for the good of the country.

And criminal law? "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" Great job by "The Flying Leeches" to get a murderer off scot-free! Bravo! Encore!

Lawyers are the touchiest "profession" on the planet, likely because the near-universal condemnation of its practitioners and practice is so very close to the truth.

Your legal "profession" (hah!) came to the startling conclusion that what is yours is not really yours (Eminent Domain), something that any rube could sort out, but apparently escapes the "wisdom" conveyed in law school. Not only can your brilliantly crafted laws legalize the theft of personal property, but untold leeches will also get a piece of the action as new legal documents are drawn up legitimizing the theft.

The legal profession makes used car salesmen look like boy scouts. Lawyers make a rabid, starved Pit Bull look like Snuggles.

Lawyer>>>   <<< Snuggles




*DRASOA

    I don't see how my Doc does it.  His office is always packed but I think the longest I've been made to wait in 14+ yrs. is somewhere around 15 min.  When you make a routine appt. it may take 2 wks. to get in but if you are sick his staff will tell you to come in during his lunch hour or after normal office hours and he will see you then.  
   

I didn't have time to read beyond page 2, but as a doctor its crystal clear that most of you people don't have a fucking clue.

I usually run within 15 minutes of appointment times. But on occassions when I am running late either due to emergency or patients that are more complicated than a 15 minute office visit, I tell the complainer (as I am smiling) that I will provide them with the names of the patients I have just finished with and if they care to interview those folks and examine the records they can help me decide just who to cut short so that I can be on time for the rest of my appointments.

Seriously Pete, Fuck you and dont fucking come back.  Wont miss you a bit.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see little relevancy to much of anything you've said either regardless of the fact that you bitched about having to wait. See Thread Topic: "General •  General Discussion • Why do you ALWAYS have to wait at the doctor's office?" Now if you want your own thread in which you can bitch about the abhorrent behavior of your patients/customers and/or your horrid life as a doctor I am sure you can figure out how to start one. BTW:  You seem to have a great bedside manner. Your point is legit, I'd get rid of you in short order. No doubt I've dealt with a few of your kind. If you want to turn this into something personal take it to IM. Great, maybe we can schedule a duel. Aha! That leaves me with choice of weapon, I believe!

I will be there with my Barret 82 as your second and watch your six.

First why dont you bitch to your insurance company?

Second, if you dont like the service go somewhere else.  

Quoted: Seriously Pete, Fuck you and dont fucking come back.  Wont miss you a bit.

What a constructive, thoughtful, and eloquent reply.  

Quoted: Quoted: Seriously Pete, Fuck you and dont fucking come back.  Wont miss you a bit. What a constructive, thoughtful, and eloquent reply.

As good as yours.  Thank you.

PS. Please never come back, we really wont miss you a bit.  I would have discharged your ass from my practice the second you raised your voice.  Go somewhere else.  No problems.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Seriously Pete, Fuck you and dont fucking come back.  Wont miss you a bit. What a constructive, thoughtful, and eloquent reply.   As good as yours.  Thank you. PS. Please never come back, we really wont miss you a bit.  I would have discharged your ass from my practice the second you raised your voice.  Go somewhere else.  No problems.

And thus the arrogance proves itself.    How dare the lowly patient even think of complaining about something to the high and mighty physican.  Consider yourself lucky we will take your money at all, proletarian......

Reading is fundamental - I have stated numerous times in this thread that I am not attacking doctors personally, but you have taken it that way.  I was complaining about a systemic problem that is not just there periodically, but always seems to present itself.  Perhaps your profession is as incompetent with reading comprehension as it is with tenets of good customer service and business?

When someone attacks my profession I am able to acknowledge that there are many scumbags out there and then I move on without getting my wittle feelings hurt.  I see that you lack that same breadth of thought.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where I DO take exception is waiting for a lawyer, especially when they have no qualms about billing per page of fax, per envelope, per paper clip. It's one of the reasons one profession has (and deserves) enormous respect and the other has (and most often deserves) nothing but contempt. Typical mis-directed anger.  Here is your solution. Just don't  ever deal with a lawyer again. It's simple. It's your choice. Lawyers all suck until you need one - then, they are your best friend. Of course, until your case is done and then they suck again and you forget to pay them what they are rightfully owed. Who do you think wrote 99% of all criminal laws? Who enforces those criminal laws? Imagine the country with no laws and no court system (all run by lawyers) - and then quit whining. LOL! Oh yes, do tell us about what a bangup job your profession has done with criminal laws. I have respect for Doctors because they contribute to society, rather than exist solely as a self-serving parasitic leech, creating an arcane system requiring the services of said leeches to comply with incomprehensible laws designed to line the pockets of said leeches, no matter the outcome. Thanks to their ilk, we now have to pay an idiot tax on everything, so named because some idiot injured themself (by flossing with a radial arm saw), and a slimebag ambulance chaser drug it into court where a (handpicked) jury awarded a hillion jillion dollars to said idiot and hired leech, and the cost is passed on to the rest of us, the downtrodden radial arm saw owners of America*. How about the "Tobacco settlement" where BILLIONS were supposed to help people quit & instead the (1/3 or 40%) went to TEAM LEECH and the rest disappeared into politicians' pet projects. While we are on the subject of politicians: roughly 1/2 the members of Congress are lawyers. Tell us all about how great a job they do, how they are selflessly doing this for the good of the country. And criminal law? "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" Great job by "The Flying Leeches" to get a murderer off scot-free! Bravo! Encore! Lawyers are the touchiest "profession" on the planet, likely because the near-universal condemnation of its practitioners and practice is so very close to the truth. Your legal "profession" (hah!) came to the startling conclusion that what is yours is not really yours (Eminent Domain), something that any rube could sort out, but apparently escapes the "wisdom" conveyed in law school. Not only can your brilliantly crafted laws legalize the theft of personal property, but untold leeches will also get a piece of the action as new legal documents are drawn up legitimizing the theft. The legal profession makes used car salesmen look like boy scouts. Lawyers make a rabid, starved Pit Bull look like Snuggles. Lawyer>>> www.diggerhistory.info/images/asstd/leech.jpg  www.grudge-match.com/Images/snuggles.gif <<< Snuggles *DRASOA

Haha...ha...ha....

Sounds like someone got the short end of a divorce proceeding! Too much hostility to be explained by anything else.

Your response proves your small minded view. Like I said, just don't deal with lawyers, and you will be fine.

Yes, there are outrageous examples you can give - just like any profession - how about the doctor that cut off the wrong foot? Operated on the wrong patient?

How about cases I have personally seen - doctor tries to remove vein in leg and instead removes femoral artery causing need for leg amputation.

What about the doctor that does an amazing job placing a cardiac stent, but forgets to put patient on blood thinner (basic medicine 101) causing patient to clot and die?

Based on this, I guess ALL doctors are quacks who kill people - right?

(and before you even go there, I defend doctors and hospitals - and when a case has no merit, I take it to trial and win for the poor doctors - I guess you are right - I am the lowest form living off of others)

Like I said before and you chose to basically ignore - imaging the country with no laws - do you like it.

You know, the Constitution, (the ultimate law of the land) was written mostly by lawyers. That same document gives you the right to put forth such idiotic opinoins without worrying about retribution. Stupid, stupid lawyers.

First why dont you bitch to your insurance company?

What good does it do to complain to the insurance company when it's the doctors that are the ones screwing over their patients?

Second, if you dont like the service go somewhere else.

The medical cartel severely limits the number of doctors so that there's not enough to go around.  For many(most?) of us there is no choice but to go to doctors that treat their patients horribly and without respect.  If there were better doctors around here, I would certainly take my wife to them rather than to the lazy drunk she sees now.  If there aren't any better doctors in the area, then you can't go somewhere else.  Also, there's no incentive for the doctors to do better since there's no competition.z

Quoted: Haha...ha...ha.... Sounds like someone got the short end of a divorce proceeding! Too much hostility to be explained by anything else.

Negative, counselor, have seen enough of the damage wrought by an out of control legal system though to call a spade a spade.

Your response proves your small minded view. Like I said, just don't deal with lawyers, and you will be fine.

I deal with lawyers as little as the law permits (ironic, n'est ce pas?)

Yes, there are outrageous examples you can give - just like any profession - how about the doctor that cut off the wrong foot? Operated on the wrong patient?

Agreed, the AMA should be more vigilant about yanking the licenses (permanently) of bad Docs.

How about cases I have personally seen - doctor tries to remove vein in leg and instead removes femoral artery causing need for leg amputation. What about the doctor that does an amazing job placing a cardiac stent, but forgets to put patient on blood thinner (basic medicine 101) causing patient to clot and die?

Great, yank the Doc's license and cover medical bills & rehab. $20 million for pain & suffering & loss of companionship (of which the lawyer takes 40%)? That's legalized theft.

Based on this, I guess ALL doctors are quacks who kill people - right? (and before you even go there, I defend doctors and hospitals - and when a case has no merit, I take it to trial and win for the poor doctors - I guess you are right - I am the lowest form living off of others)

The system which facilitates the cases going to trial in the first place is broken. It's a legalized lottery, the ambulance chaser only has to hit a few big scores, and the defenders are very well paid to fight them off, back and forth the briefs fly, all the while the meter is running, and who pays for it?

The Doctors, the Hospitals, the Equipment manufacturers and, in the end, the Patients.

Like I said before and you chose to basically ignore - imaging the country with no laws - do you like it. You know, the Constitution, (the ultimate law of the land) was written mostly by lawyers. That same document give you the right to put forth such idiotic opinoins without worrying about retibution. Stupid, stupid lawyers.

The framers of the Constitution were far more than back of the Yellow pages advertising lawyers, they were surveyors, physicists, architects, inventors, farmers, merchants and soldiers. Many had served in the Revolutionary War, and were signers of the Declaration.

The Declaration of Independence speaks of the "Laws of Nature" and self-evident truths, not the arbitrary (and often contradictory / increasingly incomprehensible) laws of man.

The modern law of the land has long lost its once-noble intent (as the founders envisioned) and has become little more than a feeding trough for those admitted by the bar to partake of its bounty, ignorant of the cost to the nation. This nation is in dire economic peril, as other countries focus on innovation and economic development, we are told that we can litigate our way to prosperity.

Doubtless the epitaph for the United States will be penned by lawyers.


ETA: I am deeply wounded that my "Pit Bull / Snuggles" reference did not incite a tangential literary melee.