Quoted: I'm going to eat my neighbors and drink rainwater. I can last practically forever.

You don't think they'd get all stringy and gamey after a while?



Sheep

Quoted: Quoted: I'm going to eat my neighbors and drink rainwater. I can last practically forever. You don't think they'd get all stringy and gamey after a while? Sheep

You just have to tenderize them with a rake first.

Quoted: Quoted: Water....most everyone has abottle of bleach sitting in their laundry room. If you don't know how to make water safe to drink....please find out. You can drink water out of mud puddles if you have bleach. Hell, Texas in August, good luck finding even a mudhole.....

How the average rural Virginian will get water if TSHTF - - - or at least me.

1.  Locate rope
2.  Locate bucket
3.  Tie rope to bucket
4.  Kick cover off of well
5.  Lower bucket to extract liquid sustenance.

Maybe ya'll Texans can stop by . . . . I'll have plenty of extra for ya'll to borrow

All bullshit aside, during the last big hurricane we kept our household functioning using a dip bucket and the well.

Since we have a septic system, the toilets and sinks still flushed.  Baths were easy if you heated up the water.

One of the biggest things that we had going for us was our gas stove . . . we would have been in a hotel without it.

Disconnector

Quoted: Quoted: Almost 2.5 Gal per day? I guess if you have to bath, brush your teeth, wash dishs, etc. you are right. I believe the rule for basic survival is 1 gal per person per day but you can stretch that down to just over 1/2 gal per day. Dogs will drink lake or rain water. No, I agree with you, but I'm in Texas in August.  I have to store water for EVERYTHING.  There isn't even a river or spring to get gray water for dishes etc.  That's why I've been researching using pool water for different things. There is the very real possibility that every single drop I would need for ANY purpose I will have to store ahead of time.   Envy those living where there are rivers and wells.

Michigan- The great lake state. To bad we have Grabholm and Detroit.

I'm really well set up. I could go a while.

I'm hoping I make it at least a month - water and medicine will be the most important scarce resource.

I posted this on preban recently. I guess most of it applies here too.

Forget about hunting and fishing off the land for very long - almost all rivers today are stocked directly or indirectly from hatcheries which will die off fast in a true SHTF. And in one season there'll be almost no game left to hunt - no way there's enough natural game to support the tens of thousands of people who'll be out shooting game day and night.

Then there's the bronchitis, pneumonia, typhus, strep, enterogastritis, salmonella, dysentary and staph infections that will spread with no antibiotics or medical treatments.

There's a reason why the average life expectancy before electricity was less than 40.

And then if you're unlucky enough to be stuck in the big cities and do not leave when the SHTF you will really have your work cut out for you. In an urban setting, common street gangs, masses of looters and outright idiots will be the first major opponents you'd have to defend against. CQB/defend-your-base scenarios with sporadic episodes of fierce defensive fighting. Leaving your base of operations to go and "engage" them would be only slightly more suicidal than actually joining them. But after about a week or two they would devour themselves, leaving only the most organized and strongest streetgangs controlling the 'hoods. These large gangs may then begin to disintegrate as food, water and supplies begin to dwindle and they resort to a more urban/tribal existance.

Also, the large roving gangs that already operate on the fringe of society like Hell's Angels or underground "communities" like the Irish Travelers would probably be best suited to survive and move in an organized manner, overtaking smaller, inexperienced pockets of survivors around the countryside.  Seems to me these sorts of mobile gang-networks are already fairly self-sufficient, tightknit, probably well armed and probably have plenty of streetsmart-experience needed to survive a full SHTF breakdown of society. They're pretty much a minisociety unto themselves already.

Anyone unfortunate enough to come upon such groups would either be killed outright (no one likes competition) or "owned" into a prison-like existance where your name is 'Nancy' and you're traded around like a pack of cigarettes. Brutal tribalism in the absence of "civilization" is not good. Go to Zimbabwe if you want to see America after a total SHTF breakdown.

There is a small stream near by, and I have enough oats an oilive oil to keep me alive for about a year. Enough fire wood to last weeks and weeks. I would be here for the long haul. I am in the burbs too, so that seems to be a bit of an accomplishment.

Quoted: I'm hoping I make it at least a month - water and medicine will be the most important scarce resource. I posted this on preban recently. I guess most of it applies here too. Forget about hunting and fishing off the land for very long - almost all rivers today are stocked directly or indirectly from hatcheries which will die off fast in a true SHTF. And in one season there'll be almost no game left to hunt - no way there's enough natural game to support the tens of thousands of people who'll be out shooting game day and night. Then there's the bronchitis, pneumonia, typhus, strep, enterogastritis, salmonella, dysentary and staph infections that will spread with no antibiotics or medical treatments. There's a reason why the average life expectancy before electricity was less than 40. And then if you're unlucky enough to be stuck in the big cities and do not leave when the SHTF you will really have your work cut out for you. In an urban setting, common street gangs, masses of looters and outright idiots will be the first major opponents you'd have to defend against. CQB/defend-your-base scenarios with sporadic episodes of fierce defensive fighting. Leaving your base of operations to go and "engage" them would be only slightly more suicidal than actually joining them. But after about a week or two they would devour themselves, leaving only the most organized and strongest streetgangs controlling the 'hoods. These large gangs may then begin to disintegrate as food, water and supplies begin to dwindle and they resort to a more urban/tribal existance. Also, the large roving gangs that already operate on the fringe of society like Hell's Angels or underground "communities" like the Irish Travelers would probably be best suited to survive and move in an organized manner, overtaking smaller, inexperienced pockets of survivors around the countryside.  Seems to me these sorts of mobile gang-networks are already fairly self-sufficient, tightknit, probably well armed and probably have plenty of streetsmart-experience needed to survive a full SHTF breakdown of society. They're pretty much a minisociety unto themselves already. Anyone unfortunate enough to come upon such groups would either be killed outright (no one likes competition) or "owned" into a prison-like existance where your name is 'Nancy' and you're traded around like a pack of cigarettes. Brutal tribalism in the absence of "civilization" is not good. Go to Zimbabwe if you want to see America after a total SHTF breakdown.

That's like the world of FallOut (the game, y'all ought to know what it is, if not, you haven't done your homework! ). More like a TEOTWAWKI scenario.

Quoted: I'm hoping I make it at least a month - water and medicine will be the most important scarce resource. I posted this on preban recently. I guess most of it applies here too. Forget about hunting and fishing off the land for very long - almost all rivers today are stocked directly or indirectly from hatcheries which will die off fast in a true SHTF. And in one season there'll be almost no game left to hunt - no way there's enough natural game to support the tens of thousands of people who'll be out shooting game day and night. Then there's the bronchitis, pneumonia, typhus, strep, enterogastritis, salmonella, dysentary and staph infections that will spread with no antibiotics or medical treatments. There's a reason why the average life expectancy before electricity was less than 40. And then if you're unlucky enough to be stuck in the big cities and do not leave when the SHTF you will really have your work cut out for you. In an urban setting, common street gangs, masses of looters and outright idiots will be the first major opponents you'd have to defend against. CQB/defend-your-base scenarios with sporadic episodes of fierce defensive fighting. Leaving your base of operations to go and "engage" them would be only slightly more suicidal than actually joining them. But after about a week or two they would devour themselves, leaving only the most organized and strongest streetgangs controlling the 'hoods. These large gangs may then begin to disintegrate as food, water and supplies begin to dwindle and they resort to a more urban/tribal existance. Also, the large roving gangs that already operate on the fringe of society like Hell's Angels or underground "communities" like the Irish Travelers would probably be best suited to survive and move in an organized manner, overtaking smaller, inexperienced pockets of survivors around the countryside.  Seems to me these sorts of mobile gang-networks are already fairly self-sufficient, tightknit, probably well armed and probably have plenty of streetsmart-experience needed to survive a full SHTF breakdown of society. They're pretty much a minisociety unto themselves already. Anyone unfortunate enough to come upon such groups would either be killed outright (no one likes competition) or "owned" into a prison-like existance where your name is 'Nancy' and you're traded around like a pack of cigarettes. Brutal tribalism in the absence of "civilization" is not good. Go to Zimbabwe if you want to see America after a total SHTF breakdown.

you need to look at how the Amish live here in IN. and how long they live without electricity. just my .02 cents

Quoted: I'm hoping I make it at least a month - water and medicine will be the most important scarce resource. I posted this on preban recently. I guess most of it applies here too. Forget about hunting and fishing off the land for very long - almost all rivers today are stocked directly or indirectly from hatcheries which will die off fast in a true SHTF. And in one season there'll be almost no game left to hunt - no way there's enough natural game to support the tens of thousands of people who'll be out shooting game day and night. Then there's the bronchitis, pneumonia, typhus, strep, enterogastritis, salmonella, dysentary and staph infections that will spread with no antibiotics or medical treatments. There's a reason why the average life expectancy before electricity was less than 40. And then if you're unlucky enough to be stuck in the big cities and do not leave when the SHTF you will really have your work cut out for you. In an urban setting, common street gangs, masses of looters and outright idiots will be the first major opponents you'd have to defend against. CQB/defend-your-base scenarios with sporadic episodes of fierce defensive fighting. Leaving your base of operations to go and "engage" them would be only slightly more suicidal than actually joining them. But after about a week or two they would devour themselves, leaving only the most organized and strongest streetgangs controlling the 'hoods. These large gangs may then begin to disintegrate as food, water and supplies begin to dwindle and they resort to a more urban/tribal existance. Also, the large roving gangs that already operate on the fringe of society like Hell's Angels or underground "communities" like the Irish Travelers would probably be best suited to survive and move in an organized manner, overtaking smaller, inexperienced pockets of survivors around the countryside.  Seems to me these sorts of mobile gang-networks are already fairly self-sufficient, tightknit, probably well armed and probably have plenty of streetsmart-experience needed to survive a full SHTF breakdown of society. They're pretty much a minisociety unto themselves already. Anyone unfortunate enough to come upon such groups would either be killed outright (no one likes competition) or "owned" into a prison-like existance where your name is 'Nancy' and you're traded around like a pack of cigarettes. Brutal tribalism in the absence of "civilization" is not good. Go to Zimbabwe if you want to see America after a total SHTF breakdown.

Hmm....

1.  6+ month stock of medicines.  Check.

2.  Large defendable property with resources and clear fields of vision/fire in every direction.  Check.

3.  Plenty of family and arms for all of them.  Check.

4.  Belt fed 1919A4 with crank an 2000+ rounds belted ammo on roof of house.  Hmm...need to work on that one.

Quoted: you need to look at how the Amish live here in IN. and how long they live without electricity. just my .02 cents

They actually do indirectly benefit from "herd immunity".  We vaccinate nearly all children against polio, measles, whooping cough, pnemonia, influenza, diptheria, etc so that deadly diseases don't sweep through the whole population (including the Amish) thus protecting even those few scattered folks who don't get vaccinated. Same with many crop and livestock diseases.

Living in an "island" of colonial-era trappings they are surrounded and benefitted by modern civilization in which "a rising tide lifts all boats" even if they don't want to admit it.

I'm not saying people CAN'T live without electricity - it's much harder to though - especially in the midst of an ongoing tribal-warfare environment that would occur in a true SHTF scenario.

Quoted: Hmm.... 1.  6+ month stock of medicines.  Check. 2.  Large defendable property with resources and clear fields of vision/fire in every direction.  Check. 3.  Plenty of family and arms for all of them.  Check. 4.  Belt fed 1919A4 with crank an 2000+ rounds belted ammo on roof of house.  Hmm...need to work on that one.

A Crank? a CRANK?

I think if the S really does ever HTF, having 'spare parts' (parts kit?) and machine tools stashed away is a more effective route.

Well, to be honest. Probably as long as I have ammo. Frankly, (hate to be an ass, but its a probably the truth in a real life, live or die SHTF situation) a firearm and ammo is the key to obtaining anything I need keep my family alive.  

During Y2K :

A neighbor was stocking up on 55 gallon drums of rice, dried beans, and water. He asked me :

"What are you doing to prepare?"

I replied that I didn't do much, just bought another 1k of .223 rounds. He asked if I had food and water.  

I said "A little but nothing like you have". He smiled and said that those bullets were going to be hard to eat when the SHTF.

I said: "Steve, if the SHTF and it gets that bad, I'll just come get yours. Thats why I bought the ammo."

Steve lost his smile.  

Quoted: Well, to be honest. Probably as long as I have ammo. Frankly, (hate to be an ass, but its a probably the truth in a real life, live or die SHTF situation) a firearm and ammo is the key to obtaining anything I need keep my family alive.   During Y2K : A neighbor was stocking up on 55 gallon drums of rice, dried beans, and water. He asked me : "What are you doing to prepare?" I replied that I didn't do much, just bought another 1k of .223 rounds. He asked if I had food and water.   I said "A little but nothing like you have". He smiled and said that those bullets were going to be hard to eat when the SHTF. I said: "Steve, if the SHTF and it gets that bad, I'll just come get yours. Thats why I bought the ammo." Steve lost his smile.

Like I said

In an urban setting, common street gangs, masses of looters and outright idiots will be the first major opponents you'd have to defend against.

Guess which one is you.

Quoted: Well, to be honest. Probably as long as I have ammo. Frankly, (hate to be an ass, but its a probably the truth in a real life, live or die SHTF situation) a firearm and ammo is the key to obtaining anything I need keep my family alive.   During Y2K : A neighbor was stocking up on 55 gallon drums of rice, dried beans, and water. He asked me : "What are you doing to prepare?" I replied that I didn't do much, just bought another 1k of .223 rounds. He asked if I had food and water.   I said "A little but nothing like you have". He smiled and said that those bullets were going to be hard to eat when the SHTF. I said: "Steve, if the SHTF and it gets that bad, I'll just come get yours. Thats why I bought the ammo." Steve lost his smile.

The thing is though, if you're going to resort to some tactics like that, make DAMN sure, before you go ahead, order won't be restored in the not-too-distant future (by government, vigelantes, or newly formed factions) because you'll be strung up from a tall tree with a short rope. Also, make damn sure there's no vigelante group coming after you, because once again - tall tree, short rope (no, you can't defend yourself from group; your house is nothing a 3-man slingshot and a well placed molotov-cocktail can't fix (one good thrower if you don't have a solid perimiter)).

Quoted: Quoted: you need to look at how the Amish live here in IN. and how long they live without electricity. just my .02 cents They actually do indirectly benefit from "herd immunity".  We vaccinate nearly all children against polio, measles, whooping cough, pnemonia, influenza, diptheria, etc so that deadly diseases don't sweep through the whole population (including the Amish) thus protecting even those few scattered folks who don't get vaccinated. Same with many crop and livestock diseases. Living in an "island" of colonial-era trappings they are surrounded and benefitted by modern civilization in which "a rising tide lifts all boats" even if they don't want to admit it. I'm not saying people CAN'T live without electricity - it's much harder to though - especially in the midst of an ongoing tribal-warfare environment that would occur in a true SHTF scenario.

We are not tribe types. I have not been a member of a tribe. Indians yes, me no. We are and have been individuals so your comparison to Africa just does not work as far as a SHTF senerio here.

I have enough ammo on hand to get water