[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR15.com CSI: Forensics 101 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/14/2005 10:42:06 AM EDT
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Ok... hypotheticals: Reading the Revenge thread reminded me that I wanted to start this one... Someone brutally rapes and murders your wife and kid(s). You track the guy, you know his routine, and you formulate a plan of action to make him "go away". One of the things you also need to take into account, though, is making sure there is no way you can be traced to the guy's murder (assuming you leave a corpse). For arguements sake we'll say you decide to use one of the guns in your "collection". I know this part is probably pretty dumb, but in reality so is trying to buy a gun on the black market... or killing someone for that matter. The gun you use is a suppressed P22. You collect the brass. The deed is done. What forensic evidence is left behind? Woudl the "CSI" be able to determine the type of weapon used to the point where they know it was suppressed? If they could determine the weapon was suppressed could they somehow trace it to you using the information you are obligated to provide in order to own a suppressed weapon? Does a .22LR bullet fragment enough that they couldn't trace it to a specific owner's weapon? |
That only works if you have the FIRED bullet. If you have the fired bullet, just melt it down. Sanding down the unfired round won't do much, as it would be grooved as soon as it was fired. |
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Hypothetically, I wouldn't want to use a gun anyway. If this bastard hypothetically did these hypothetical things to my wife and kids, then I would need the following, hypothetically of course. 1" pvc pipe (about 1 foot long) 7 cholla cactis balls a broom stck a knife (dull) 1 pound of epsom salt 1 quart of chlorine 1 quart of amonia 1 set of pliers 1 set of tree timmers 1 55 gallon can 5 gallons of gas 1 rock and 4 matches All of this is hypothetical, for discusion of course. Scott |
they always forget the fire ants |
So your best bet is to take along a big-assed, sharp knife and cut the bullets out of the fucker after you shoot him? 
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Why would you mess with the bullet,and decrease your chances of accomplishing whatever mission was involved? Why would you use a papered,legal silencer for an illegal action? Take a torch to the weapon and silencer,destroying the bore and breech, then toss it in the ocean. Ditto for the brass. Report the silencer stolen. Best idea would be to do it with an unpapered weapon of some sort,purchased via personal transaction with someone otherwise unconnected with you,so that no 4473 could trace your possession of a weapon capable of firing the recovered bullet with the markings it contains. |
I was going to say, in frangible and HP rounds is there much left to compare rifling? |
What they suspect and what they can prove are two different things. But you're right, you'd be top on the list. UNLESS you made outward talk (to the press, the police, etc) about how you weren't interested in revenge, you just want to get on with your life blah blah blah... |
True but when BGs family makes it their life long goal to destroy you, it may not matter. CH |
Google is your friend, found this: Link
Maybe we could all buy Old Painless some pig heads  |
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I can name you a hundred different ways to kill someone without touching a firearm. Let me just say, before this gets locked, 1. That it's really hard to convict someone without a body. 2. It's really hard to convict someone without a murder weapon. An icicle comes to mind, melt the ice. 3. I would leave no exposed skin/hair and maybe even go to the extreme of shaving all hair off. 4. Destroy everything associated with the incident, clothing, vehicle, tires, shoes, gloves - everything. 5. Have an ironclad alibi. If two people know about something, that's one too many. Never leave witnesses. My old Ranger Instructor told me that. |
Wonder if ice shotshells would work or an ice shotgun slug, at close range it wouldn't matter as it would for a rifle bullet. Shotguns have no rifling marks, only thing left behind would be a plastic wad perhaps |
| Have a friend mail order a barrel and toss it on top of a semi truck's trailer after use? In some movie with Ed Harris he was protecting a girlfriend and took the murder weapon and disassembled it into the slide, barrel, and frame and put tossed them up on top of different semi trailers at a truck stop to spread the weapon around teh country. |
Forensic evidence: at least a bullet. At most your Drivers license or DNA depending on how close you were to the deceased. Would the CSI be able to determine? I think yes. getting away with crime is getting DAMN hard these days I think. Especially for somone "on the grid" like you. Some homie from the hood who's been in several shootings might have a better chance. Could they determine it was suppressed? - depends on the suppressor. If it was a dry can, I don't see how they'd tell. If it was wet the bullet might have lubricant on it but hard to say. Does the bullet fragment? Not hardly. .22's don't move fast enough to really fragment. Mostly they get all mashed up and stuff but don't fragment. Your best chance is to hit a heavy bone and hope it get's all mangled. If you (hypothetically) go that route your best bet is to use something like a Walther P22 (Except you won't be able to hit shit with it caues it's so inaccurate) get an aftermarket barrel, do the "Deed" with the aftermarket barrel, put your original back and melt the aftermarket barrel into a little ball of steel with a torch. No fingerprint to compare to. Oh and you should probably replace the breech end and firing pin as well just to be sure. Buy them at a gunshow with cash as well. Chances of getting away clean are pretty low I'd guess though. Best to nuke from orbit, then it won't matter. |
Hypothetical question, if you turn the firearm used in such a way to one of the Gun Buy Back programs across the country, does that prevent police from using that gun as forensic evidence? Gun buy backs are supposed to be don't ask/don't tell type of things. |
Aw come on man, don't go mentioning gun shows, cash and crime in the same post! Why don't we just climb up on the roof and shout "Gun Show Loophole" so the anti's can hear it? Fuck. We've mentioned suppressors, gunshows, frangible ammo, and who knows what else on a site devoted to "assault weapons" while discussing how to get away with murder. Jesus Christ. |
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Use a 1911 or some such. Buy a slide and barrel somewhere, use assumed name or just buy them at a gun shop. Shoot him, change the slide and barrel back to the original. Hammer them flat, dispose of them. As said by others, lose everything used in the crime. Keep nothing else. Larry |
hey, at least nobody has mentioned the EE. whoops
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You could also get a knife and stab somebody and grind/cut the knife into nothing afterwords to get rid of the evidence. Should they call for a ban on tin snips or dremmels and department stores next? Really if you just use common sense, you can get away with it without any advice given from anybody. |
You guys are hi tech . Find yourself  a S&W Victory model lend lease british in .38 S&W , most of these are already bored out for .38 spl. The .38 spl bullet dia. is .357 , the .38 S&W "somewhat bigger " I'd have to go look it up ...but it is . Oswald had one and killed officer Tippet w/ it . the rifling marks SHOULD not ever be the same . It's a revolver , no brass no FP indents , One shot and one shot only . From behind right between the ears . "smells like somebody died" ... "Jezzuz Johnny" . I you want to use an automatic Just put it in a Crown Royal Bag to be damn sure there is no stray brass . Personaly I'd feel inclined to center punch the shit out of the serrial # SLEDGE HAMMER the thing in uselessness put it in a small feedbag full of rock salt , draino and lose it in some nice briney marshy area . What was it youre going to do agian ? "Three can keep a seceret IF two of them are dead" I think some motorcycle club said it ...Sunny Barger maybe  |
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Damn... 2 page already... that was flippin fast. I like the "toss the parts on the tops of various tractor trailers" and the "toss shell casings from the range at the scene". That's awesome. The reason I was wondering about whether they could determine if a (dry) suppressor was used is whetehr they could 1: Tell how close the gun was to the person when it was fired by how "mangled" the bullet is and 2: based on #1 hwo much GSR is on the person. I woudl assume there woudl be significantly more GSR on aperson show at close range when a suppressor is not used since the suppressor contains a lot of the GSR within the baffles. I'm guessing here. I don't really know shit about suppressors in that regard. ETA: Why would this be an IBTL? Because we're talking about hypothetical murder and giving "instructions" on how to do it without leaving a mess? It's only hypothetical. Here this should make it all nice and better...
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I think you would have less problem w/ the ballistics stuff then you would from the grunt police work. I.E. Motive, Knowledge of Victim, probable cause etc.... I wonder how many crimes have been solved by the majority of the evidence coming from the wound/weapon. I fully admit I am out of my league, but just speculating here. |
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Well, a patient person woudl wait for things to cool off a bit... I'd think at least a year or three. That's enough time for people to think you've "movied on". This is assuming the person isn't convicted and sentenced. If the person was in jail then it'd make things rather difficult... probably have to tak the long way and go to "prison guard school" to get close to him. If he isn't convicted then odds are he's still getting into nasty shit and his death would yield a laundry list of suspects, most of them likely to be unsavory types anyway... so your alibi, while not airtight, will at least float on water... 
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