Quoted: Quoted: I always thought the reason the Military got away from the Jeep was due to vehicle profile, the Hummer being lower to the ground because of the independant suspension vs the solid axles of the Jeep. Huh? Anybody got a better picture of a jeep sitting next to a hummer? www.jeepfreund.de/M_151/Ford_Mutt___Hummer.jpg Seems to me the M151 has a smaller profile than the hummer. Maybe I'm missing something. And as far as the suspension on the hummer, it'd done to proved more ground clearence than solid axles.

Isn't the M151 4 wheel independent suspension though? Lower overall vehicle height, while still keeping good ground clearence.

Quoted: Acceleration does matter in a combat vehicle. From a dead stop to about 425 yards, an unloaded Hummer will take about 20-21 seconds, and an F350 about 17. Considering that 425 yards may well be the distance that Hadji can make hits to with his AK, that 3-4 seconds starts to sound pretty good. Also, the GM 6.2L diesel is a crime against consumers, and the 6.5L is only slightly better. When I see a HMMWV with an Allison 5 speed and a 6.6L Isuzu, I'll be a little happier with the platform. Also, for some lame ass reason the military mandated that the HMMWV not be sold to civilians, at least not in any setup that is similar to an issue vehicle. Now they want a commercial platform, because they are tired of paying for the R&D on new or improved parts, and tired of buying custom made stuff when they could call a four wheel shop ship it to them in a pinch. They also do not surplus Hummers, excluding 800 or so that the USMC traded for some utilities work in the late 1980s. A commercial based vehicle would be a huge hit at DRMO auctions.

You can barely tell the differance between my 94 Hummer and a military one They are so close its scary. How are the MIL hummers differant than the chivies like mine?

Quoted: Quoted: Acceleration does matter in a combat vehicle. From a dead stop to about 425 yards, an unloaded Hummer will take about 20-21 seconds, and an F350 about 17. Considering that 425 yards may well be the distance that Hadji can make hits to with his AK, that 3-4 seconds starts to sound pretty good. Also, the GM 6.2L diesel is a crime against consumers, and the 6.5L is only slightly better. When I see a HMMWV with an Allison 5 speed and a 6.6L Isuzu, I'll be a little happier with the platform. Also, for some lame ass reason the military mandated that the HMMWV not be sold to civilians, at least not in any setup that is similar to an issue vehicle. Now they want a commercial platform, because they are tired of paying for the R&D on new or improved parts, and tired of buying custom made stuff when they could call a four wheel shop ship it to them in a pinch. They also do not surplus Hummers, excluding 800 or so that the USMC traded for some utilities work in the late 1980s. A commercial based vehicle would be a huge hit at DRMO auctions. You can barely tell the differance between my 94 Hummer and a military one They are so close its scary. How are the MIL hummers differant than the chivies like mine?

No side impact protection
no rollover protection
Non-DOT approved brakes
Non-collapsable steering
Engines that don't/ haven't been certified for emmisions specs for that year
No "parkP setting in the transmission (yes, this is a DOT mandated thing)

and there are about 20 other things.

All the ones that have made it out were sold with paperwork and titles that said "for off-oad use only", and the titles have since been laundered through states that do not have such a provision for a title like that to make them "clean" and witout the off-road use only label. However, AMG will tell anyone who listens they are non-DOT spec and unsafe, so guess how mu of a sling your ass will be in if you get in a wreck and some personal injury attorney finds out you were driving a vehicle that did not meet DOT safety specs with a laundered title.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think it may be Irish, although the F-350 is becoming a more popular military vehicle in most parts of the Brit Commonwealth and Afghanistan. Not in Afghanistan. Toyotas rule Afghanistan. The Fords will be a mistake here. Weight issue?  I guarantee it's not a build quality issue.   The ford chassis will be fine long after the yota is twisted and broken.

Yotas have ruled here for years, and I am a Ford fan. Even our SF here choose the Toyotas> The biggest reason it will fail is that anywhere here you can get Toyota parts, and every Afghani who know how to turn a wrench can keep a Toyota running.

The diesel Toyotas here are king and will be for some time.

Another technical-like vehicle

Army Ranger's RSOV

Military HMMWVs are also waterproofed. With a snorkel you can drive them underwater, or so I am told. Civis are saddled with standard, un waterproofed electronics. Although some H1s have been waterproofed (the joys of a huge budget!).

Quoted: Isn't that the Australian SAS one?

Aus SAS uses modified landrovers.  They have 6 wheels

Quoted: Military HMMWVs are also waterproofed. With a snorkel you can drive them underwater, or so I am told. Civis are saddled with standard, un waterproofed electronics. Although some H1s have been waterproofed (the joys of a huge budget!).

There are a few light military trucks that were 'underwater capable' that I know of, including the HMMWV.

The M151's -for example- had a deep water fording kit that would allow the jeep to drive underwater, -motor and all- provided the wheels still hit the ground and the fording tubes were above water level. In theory that meant that the driver could be completely submerged while he was fording a river or other water obstacle. Kind of cool.

The fording kit was basically a very tall intake tube and a tall exhaust extension that both rose above the vehicles highest point. The intake tube went through the hood and used a special gasket to seal it to the standard induction system. There was a fording valve that you turned on before you entered the water. This kit allowed intake and exhaust to flow from above the water level, but once the motor was underwater -and you stalled- it could not be restarted. Also if you went in too deep, you would get water in the intake and stall, but by then you would pobably have already drowned.

Typically a deep water fording kit on a Military Jeep or Hummer would allow roughly 58"-60" of water to be crossed. From those numbers you can see how it's possible for the driver to be completely underwater and still not reach the vehicles max fording capability.

Personally I think the Gama Goat was the most capable military vehicle, and the Detroit Desiel motor was a strong puller.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I always thought the reason the Military got away from the Jeep was due to vehicle profile, the Hummer being lower to the ground because of the independant suspension vs the solid axles of the Jeep. Huh? Anybody got a better picture of a jeep sitting next to a hummer? www.jeepfreund.de/M_151/Ford_Mutt___Hummer.jpg Seems to me the M151 has a smaller profile than the hummer. Maybe I'm missing something. And as far as the suspension on the hummer, it'd done to proved more ground clearence than solid axles. Isn't the M151 4 wheel independent suspension though? Lower overall vehicle height, while still keeping good ground clearence.

You are correct, the m151 has independent suspension on all 4 wheels. They use propeller shafts -basically small driveshafts- all around vs solid axles and housing. They were very capable in the right hands too but lacked power with the small 4 cylinder motor.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Acceleration does matter in a combat vehicle. From a dead stop to about 425 yards, an unloaded Hummer will take about 20-21 seconds, and an F350 about 17. Considering that 425 yards may well be the distance that Hadji can make hits to with his AK, that 3-4 seconds starts to sound pretty good. Also, the GM 6.2L diesel is a crime against consumers, and the 6.5L is only slightly better. When I see a HMMWV with an Allison 5 speed and a 6.6L Isuzu, I'll be a little happier with the platform. Also, for some lame ass reason the military mandated that the HMMWV not be sold to civilians, at least not in any setup that is similar to an issue vehicle. Now they want a commercial platform, because they are tired of paying for the R&D on new or improved parts, and tired of buying custom made stuff when they could call a four wheel shop ship it to them in a pinch. They also do not surplus Hummers, excluding 800 or so that the USMC traded for some utilities work in the late 1980s. A commercial based vehicle would be a huge hit at DRMO auctions. You can barely tell the differance between my 94 Hummer and a military one They are so close its scary. How are the MIL hummers differant than the chivies like mine? No side impact protection no rollover protection Non-DOT approved brakes Non-collapsable steering Engines that don't/ haven't been certified for emmisions specs for that year No "parkP setting in the transmission (yes, this is a DOT mandated thing) and there are about 20 other things. All the ones that have made it out were sold with paperwork and titles that said "for off-oad use only", and the titles have since been laundered through states that do not have such a provision for a title like that to make them "clean" and witout the off-road use only label. However, AMG will tell anyone who listens they are non-DOT spec and unsafe, so guess how mu of a sling your ass will be in if you get in a wreck and some personal injury attorney finds out you were driving a vehicle that did not meet DOT safety specs with a laundered title.

In addition to what was said above:

batteries are located under the front passenger seat with 4 pipes vented down.
no front and rear clearance lights - wide load vehicles over 80.
front and rear signals are non DOT approved.
no rear bumpers -'84-'92 trucks.
no dash pad protection
no ctis and most are not CTI ready meaning no CTI hub

The basic HMMWV does not have the AMG Mine protection shield (mine does =P) and undercarriage protection.

There are legally titled Humvees out there, the ones with the Form 97. My '85 M998 is titled and insured for highway use though the policy states it's an AM General "JP" jeep. I bought it strictly for offroad use but I can drive it On the highway if I wanted to but don't plan on using it on highway for liability concerns, plus I have other vehicles and a couple H1's to drive around town.

The Ford F250/350 truck is a pretty neat platform for certain applications but it is NOT a Humvee.
There is a big difference. Kind of like comparing a Honda/Acura NSX to a Ferrari.

There  is a place in Ocala FL called American Growler that is building a new diesel powered 4 wheel independent suspension/steering vehicle that fits in the Osprey. It is a nifty little ride.

I HAD the Gamma on my military license, although we were never EVER allowed to swim it.  Per the 'old guys' it would capsize and sink in anything short of absolutely calm water.  Other than that, it was very cool!  Of course, the M113 would also sink if you didn't have the drain plugs in place - we lost a troop that way ...

The M151, while great fun to drive, was a roll over deathtrap!  I used to scare the excrement out of the LT by taking corners a little tooo fast ..   Remember the add on roll over cages they mandated to be installed to improve safety?

The main reasons our Scouts switched to the Hummer from the M113/M901 was due to cost and speed.  1 Bradley = 4 Hummers with armor protection up to 7.62 in cost.  The M113 couldn't keep up with the Abrahams, so we had to move into something else...  Of course, I think it was so the Admin weenies could take our vehicles for their own use (and they did too..)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ooops, maybe I shoulda looked up the specs. I thought the Hummer had a 6. Good ole GM 6.5l Turbo-Diesel technology. What is it, like 190hp and 400tq? 6.0L Power Choke Turbo Diesel 325HP@3300 RPM 570lb.-ft@2000 RPM The Duramax should have similar numbers, no? But I don't think .mil uses it.

We are not going to use the Duramax on the HMMWV. AM General is tooled up for the 6.5. In fact, they have an engine division called GEP, General engine products and are making the current 6.5 Optimizer engines for current Humvees and fleet H1's.

Quoted: ....I have also heard that GM is prohibited from selling close copies of the military HMMWV to civilians, hence the $100k+ price tag of the H1. Although that information is a little more shaky (been a while and I can't remember where I heard that).

Partially incorrect, AM General sold a limited number of "civilian" Humvees/military conversions in '92. They were made in mid '92-dec.'92 and are called limited edition or desert storm edition. I have one such truck and it's basically a Humvee with a slightly decent interior and DOT approved equipment.

The price tag is reflected by the nature of how the HMMWV/H1 is made, it's a handbuilt truck. Current AMG price on a basic Humvee is 85k.