Posted: 7/4/2005 10:09:04 AM EDT
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Why are we here? And I don't just mean modern humans or even life on Earth. I mean why is the universe here at all? Religious creations stories attempt to answer that question. The problem is the Hebrew creation story (common to the Big 3 religions) is so unlikely based upon what we do know about the Earth and the Universe it cannot even qualify as likely "theory" as defined by science and can't even qualify as decent science fiction. But for many a "creation" story is the most acceptable idea to them and they look no further. The Hindu creation story is probably most compatable with what we know given our current understanding of the universe but Hinduism still leave much to be desired when it comes to answering the "big question." And to be fair, not even science has the answer. After all science is NOT a belief system, it is simply the search for the truth and the best explanation based upon what is "known" and science doesn't profess to know everything. As it is NOT a belief system it doesn't fill in the blanks or knowledge gaps, it leaves them blank. What we do know is this. We have an expanding universe that we have observed. The matter (that we can see anyway) at the farthest observable points are all moving away from a common center point. Prior to the observation of this fact we simply accepted a steady state inifinite universe that "might" have always existed. But the implications of this observation were obvious, at one time the expanding Universe was smaller and if you go back in time far enough all matter (and even space itself actually) began at a single point converted from pure energy (E=mc2). This means time and space had a beginnning. I should point out that the Big Bang was NOT an explosion of matter into space (as is a common misconception). The Big Bang was the creation of space itself and it's expansion. Matter as we think of it would not occur for some time after the Big Bang and complext element such as lead or gold would have to wait for the first stars to die and manufacture them. Now there are two likely ends of the Universe. One it will continue to expand forever and eventually all the stars will burn out after the abundant supplies of hydrogen are exhausted and the Universe will one day be a cold, dead and infinite place where life can no longer exist anywhere. The universe has been around about 18 Billion years and it will be Billions of years before that happens. The second possible outcome (if enough matter exists) is that the expansion of the Universe will gradually slow and the inherent gravity of matter will begin to draw everything back to it's original starting point (The Big Crunch) and likely convert back all the matter back to pure energy (E=mc2). An offshoot to this idea is the "pulse theory" where that pure energy results in another Big Bang and the creation of a new universe. According to the idea of "pulse theory" this could be the 1rst, 3rd or 500th universe ever created in a cycle of creation and destruction. But no matter which is true (and to be honest it really won't matter because we won't survive to see it) it still doesn't answer the Big Question. Now we also know that complex life is probably pretty rare. Earth is 4.5 Billion years old and will probably exist for 12 Billion years but complex life has really only existed for 500 Million years and will probably only last another 500 Million years. So Earth will have hosted complex life for only about 1/12 of it's existence and the rise of intelligent self aware life is even rarer. While micro organisms may be abundant in the Universe complex, intelligent life may be impossibly rare. It is even possible that we are the ONLY species in the entire universe to become this self aware. So why did it happen? We understand how, but don't understand why. No matter if this is the first only universe, or the 6th or 1,000th in a series of pulsing creation and destruction (each of which may develop intelligent life or this may be the lone exception) the Big Question remains. It would be sadly tragic if for Trillions of years universes were created and destroyed and this ONE TIME a species developed that was self aware and it never happened before or never happened again. Why does the mechanism for creation of a Universe exists at all? Why did it happen? If it is just a random occurance of celestial mechanics life is truly a Cosmic Joke. We happened, became self aware, began to understand and are destroyed. But even if you take "man" out of the equation, why did the Universe happen? I really hope there is something more that we simply don't grasp yet. I'd like to believe there is other life that is similar to us in self aware intelligence and that after death something else happens. But even if we simply "die" I'd take comfort in the commonality of other self aware species that continue on to seek understanding of their existence. And the big question in understanding that existence is "why" did the Universe happen. |
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Could it be that, as C.S. Lewis noted, we only live in the "Shadowlands"? And that the "real world" is yet to come? John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. I am looking forward to seeing that Mansion of the Lord. 
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An "afterlife" would be really, really nice and would make almost everything we know "acceptable." And that is certainly the attraction of "religions." However, the afterlife based upon Hebrew based religions is extremely unlikely. |
Scientifically, ANY afterlife based upon a religion is, by definition, extremely unlikely. The problem is, of course, that the question you asked cannot be solved by science, now can it? And no, the answer really ISN'T 42!
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Steyr... This is one of those subjects I have thought about several times and each time I come to the same conclusion... I have absolutely no idea. We will never know for sure... at least not in my lifetime. I have stopped wondering about things that I will never be able to answer. No one can say for sure why we are here, since... logically, there is no answer that fits. All I know is that we ARE here... wherever here is... and we stick around until we die. After we die, I have no idea what happens but I am almost positive some part of us exists after death. No matter what answer you get, there are always more "why's", and that is why I gave up pondering our existence. |
Not what I meant. The "religions" themselves are unlikely given the science and history we now know. I wasn't seeking scientific "evidence" of Heaven. If the religions themselves were more historically and scientifically founded then one could "accept" the unknowns as "likely." For example we expected black holes to actually exist long before we had the evidence to prove them. This is because the idea of black holes were well founded. |
This is the logical answer. But it is mans nature to wonder. As it is unlikely we will survive the end of the Universe we will probably never know. |
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How it all began is simple - "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" How it ends is simple - "Behold I make all things new". Why are we here is simple if one accepts the Bible - To glorify God. Sums it all up if one really wants to know the true answers. All one has to do is believe. Unfortunately some don't and have to keep wondering. Either Christ was who He claimed to be, He rose from the dead, He is sitting at the right hand of God ,and all the above is true or He was a liar and died, never to rise. The answer is in which version of Christ one accepts. It's that simple. |
I would disagree in one respect. The question you asked, "Why are we here?" cannot be answered by science other than to answer the question "How did we get here?". As such, the existence of religion is eminently likely.
Oh, I see. No. I regret I cannot prove Heaven exists, nor can science prove nor disprove it. I make no secret that on a human logic level, that can be very troublesome, but that's why it's called faith. Some call that a copout, and it really isn't. A very strange thing, faith. Once you get it, you KNOW it, and many things that made no sense before suddenly make SOME sense. You also find you have a certain bond to others with that faith, even if their religion is different. I don't think I'm explaining it very well. It's simply one of those things you simply KNOW when you get it. |
"The Universe: Some facts to help you live in it..." Area: Infinite. Imports: None. There can be no imports into an infinite area as there is no outside to import things in from. Exports: None. See imports. Rainfall: None. There can be no rainfall as in an infinite space there is no up for rain to fall down from. Population: None. We accept that there must be an infinite number of worlds in the universe, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. We also know that not all these worlds are inhabited, so there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Since any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as makes no odds, we can therefore conclue that the population of the universe is also zero, and anyone you may happen to bump into is simply the product of a deranged imagination." |
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But for many a "creation" story is the most acceptable idea to them and they look no further. |
We "used" to think the universe is infinite. Now we don't know. For all practical purposes it is, but it may actually have a finite size. We don't know. |
You are correct, science does not have the answer either. But known science and history are enough to invalidate the religions that offered the creation stories. Simply put we know a LOT of the stuff simply isn't true. As a result the rest is suspect.
That should have read I was NOT seeking evidence of Heaven. |
That's where you're wrong. If I've learned one thing from the hive-mind, it's that chest-thumping ARF members have all the answers, and know everything about everything....and will be happy to tell you. I didn't think it was possible to aquabump, or to make a metallic sound by hitting an illegal on the noggin. I didn't know you could build a fort out of ammo cans, or get away with doll playing as a 40+ year old man. I didn't know alot of things before coming to ARF, and I'm sure if we hand it to the big minds of GD, our purpose in the universe will be explained in short order. |
God must be fucked up, he can't spell any better than you. No wonder I don't believe. |
Not true. Newton, for instance, viewed scientific understanding as a means to better understand God Himself. The error is to look to science as a basis from which to judge things that science cannot even begin to quantify. Until we can bring folks back from the dead and cram God into a test tube, science is mute on the question of God and the afterlife. Science's ideas on universal origin, while novel and entertaining, aren't much more enlightening. |
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Im constantly torn between the religions of a single God and the possibility of a MUCH larger ''game'' being played out by forces we as mortal humans cant begin to fathom. Life ''forces'' un-concieveable to us that exist in a dimension also difficult at best to be grasped by our scientists. Ive always been drawn to the models of molecules orbiting around each other and how similar they are to our galaxys as we know them. We might all be part of a few grains of sand on some yet undisturbed desert on a much larger planet,and pitty us all when the developers come in to break ground for a bunch of new condos. Maybe the religions as we know them are just ancient stories and fables concocted/revised/rebuilt by wise men to keep society from becomming unraveled from those of us living for the moment,as well as to establish some common sence laws for society to follow. While we may discover many more things in our lifetimes....................the basic question of ''why'' and ''how'' will remain out of reach. It is all quite delicious brain candy as far as ''food for thought'' goes though. |
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being finite beings we cannot understand the infinite, it is literally beyond our comprehension. But, it does make for some interesting thoughts and discussions some basic required reading on the subject : ethics (sounds like it's not associated, but it is) this examines 'first cause', Sir Thomas Aquinas examines this in detail BEYOND THE LIMITS OF INFINITY by Rudy Rucker |
I said "many" and not "all."" Furtheremore our understanding of the origins of the Earth and the Universe have come a LONG WAY since Newtons time. And science doesn't offer "ideas" on the origins of the universe. Again it is NOT a belief system. Science IS all that we actually know for FACT about the origins of the universe. And it is far more credible than the writings of ancient Hebrews. Newton was a man of science who believed in God, not a man of God who believed in science. |
Mind boggling isn't it. Humans have asked this question for ages but have no provable answers. Ever since the mind evolved to the point of self awareness we have been plauged with this dilemma. I do think that hidden within the various creation myths we see people trying to explain where we came from and where we are going, like the adam eve apple deal may be an allegorical reference to the evolvment of self awareness and reason with the result being that we are kicked out of the garden or blissful state of ignorance and shamelessness. I have to admit that I see the advantages of accepting one of the 'pre-packaged' explanations but I never was satisfied with the answers they provide, and my mind balks when I feed it nonsense. I think it is a possibility that there is no "why" or reason and everything just is. Humans seem to need reasons and explanations for everything but they may not exist, maybe we should think less and live more. Maybe we really are insignificant and insecure about that and we need elaborate stories to make us feel better. Maybe it's like the religious folk say and we are here to amuse god and worship him or her; or maybe all that stuff is part of a different bigger game where we are supposed to try and figure out that that stuff is just a lie and the people who leave their religions are the who are 'saved'. Maybe we all have strings attached to us and someone makes us dance the way they want us to and we are in a cosmic puppet show. Maybe we are someone elses entertainment and we exist for the same reason television exists. I think that if i was god it would get old sitting around in the cosmic nothingness for eternity and I might just drum up some fun.Maybe one of you guys/gals is god and we are all here for your amusement. WOT |
We humans can only make the worst of guesses as to why we are her let alone everything. My feeling is that when we pass from this world, we will only then know the whys and whats. After that, no one knows. I'd like to think there is something better than this. There has to be something better than this. The question as to "why" will haunt us all until we pass on. 
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Or just lay there dead turning into worm food  But by then,its too late to relay the info to those still kicking.No one can say............they can speculate and theorize..........but NO ONE can say for sure. After all...............it IS the trillion dollar question 
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Well now, there you have it Styer. We have never seen black hole. Nobody has a picture of one, though there are "pictures" where nothing can be seen because we think light can't get out. We have never been in one. Nobody has one. You can't buy one, draw it, or anything else. It may actually be what science says it is or it might be something else entirely that our science as of yet does not understand and has nievely explained as a "black hole". Odds are you (and surely I) do not have the graduate / master / doctorate / PHD degree to even really understand what one is or all the evidence that "proves" they exist. That is faith. You believe it exists without REALLY concrete facts. The answer to the original question (why are here?) is simple. God wanted us here, He did his thing, and poof here we are. That is my faith. The big question for me is, why do so many people not see something that is so very well proven by science? Everything in science proves that a master planner and engineer (the God of the universe) drew up the universe and spoke it into being. The complexity, orderliness, and intertwinded perfection of creation is astounding. There is absolutely no other explanation that even comes close. |
Yep, gave up trying to figure it all out a long time ago. I'll never really figure it out while on this earth... The only thing I could do is convince myself of something, but that means diddly squat. It doesn't mean it's true, only something I wish to believe. However, just for the fun of it, I do think about it sometimes... I will sometimes think about this universe as if God hadn't created it, and try to find other explanations for all things. It's very interesting to think of things like this. What happens when we die, if there is no God, no afterlife like we imagine it? I know 'ghosts' exist, I've seen them myself enough to know they do. Why they exist and how, I don't know... I suppose it is limbo, if there is such a thing. But, why if they were a good person in our eyes would they be condemned to such an existence? I have heard that time on Heaven and Earth are different - something like 1 minute in Heaven is to 1 year on Earth. So if that is true, maybe it only feels like 1 hour and 40 minutes (give or take) for those who have died, while waiting for the lives of those who they have influenced directly to die themselves - and then things will be sorted out, and if your direct influences were the cause of something evil in someone else's life, your punishment can then be delivered. I'm assuming here that we really do have free will, and do not have fate..... and if fate/destiny does exist, that we still have free will in our decisions along the way. Well, that's all I'm putting in for now.
I suppose I see things newtons way, a closer understanding of God. Oh, and we can bring them back from the dead now... the link was duped many times. As for the test tube... |