Valentine Michael Smith - RAH (Heinlein) Fans Be Heard! - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Valentine Michael Smith - RAH (Heinlein) Fans Be Heard! (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 6/29/2005 5:24:52 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Also check out Glory Road. It's one of my all time favorites, and nobody every seems to mention it.
For me it's right behind Starship Troopers and right before Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

I loved Glory Road. And Citizen of the Galaxy.

Posted: 6/29/2005 10:15:45 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Does anybody else have other Heinlein books to recommend?

His "future history" collection of short stories, The Past Through Tomorrow, is fundamental to a lot of his hother stories, including the Lazarus Long series.

His short story, "Gulf", collected in Assignment in Eternity, is one of my favorites. The solitaire encrypted-message "game" that they played has since been turned into a real-world system (also used in Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, with the algorithm fully explained in an appendix). It's not as fast or convenient as in Heinlein's story, unfortunately, but then again it couldn't be if it were meant to be secure.

Expanded Universe is also a good read. Many previously-unpublished or generally-unavailable stories got put in there, including a Heinlein article, "Spin-off", originally written for "Omni" magazine in which he described his treatment for a clogged artery, most of the techniques and equipment for which came from the space program.

Posted: 6/29/2005 10:23:05 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Which of his works have incest in them?

Most of them.

Aaaaaaaaaaaagh. Most of Heinlein's books were written for JUVENILES. Specifically, male juveniles, during the 1950's and early 1960's. They don't even mention SEX, much less incest, and usually treat girls as some sort of mystery to become interested in later.

Quoted:
Brasspile,
"Any fresh suggestions to broaden my mind?"

On the more intellectual, but still very readable end, I recently enjoyed ~~Necr~~CRYPTonomicon by Neal Stephenson, and Pattern Recognition by William ~~Gipson~~GIBSON.

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH. Fixed them for you.

Posted: 7/2/2005 9:39:50 AM EDT

[#4]

"Friday" is looking odd so far. Starts out with killing and gang rape.

I think I will like this one.

Posted: 7/2/2005 9:41:43 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
"Friday" is looking odd so far. Starts out with killing and gang rape.

I think I will like this one.

I just finished it, it jumps around a lot but is an overall good book

Posted: 7/3/2005 1:04:47 AM EDT

[#6]

IMHO you can divide Heinlein's writings into two periods: before Time Enough for Love, and TEFL and after.

After publishing TEFL, there was a long break in his writing career. In the "Omni" article I mentioned above, he wrote that he just couldn't think for a long time. Eventually he had a TIA, and was diagnosed with a serious blockage in an artery leading to his brain, reducing blood flow and impairing his thinking.

IMHO, he suffered from some neurological damage as a result of this long-term bloodflow reduction. His later novels are much less coherent and he threw in a lot of gratuitous perverse sexual stuff as some have noted.

Others are free to disagree with me on this, and many do. I loved his earlier novels, but his later stuff just isn't up to snuff and makes me feel a little ill. It's not a morality thing; I have nothing against sex scenes, even kinky or twisted stuff, but he just couldn't write well any longer, and I find the sexual stuff he wrote to be rather gross.

Posted: 7/3/2005 2:11:12 AM EDT

[#7]

Time Enough For Love is a good one, highly recommended. Anything Spider Robinson too.

His point in the other books is that if you can avoid the genetic issues that arise from inbreeding (incest) then there is a lot to be said for the concept, line breeding is commonly used to preserve favorable traits in domesticated species, and it is a valid way to strengthen our own once the genetic issues are identified and eliminated, social mores notwithstanding. A lot of diseases and other weaknesses could be bred out of the population if a proper breeding program was instituted

In Lazarus Long's case, he was a direct product of just such a program, his line was voluntarily (for compensation) bred for uncommonly long life. Later, when life replenishing technologies were created, he used those to stay alive even longer. The writers trick is an old one and allows the author to coherently show a long sequence of events, a sequence that, at all times, is viewed through the same set of eyes.

Where is our resident RAH expert? the fella that grew up down the road from him?

Posted: 7/3/2005 2:12:17 AM EDT

[#8]

IIRC he has 32 books I have read them all multiple times
I would suggest starting off with:
Tunnel in the Sky
Citizen of the Galaxy
Glory Road
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Starman Jones
Menace From Earth
6XH

If you liked Have Space Suit Will Travel you will probably like all those too

Stranger in a strange land was okay but I was suprised that his most
famous book was one of his worst as far as I was concerned(YMMV)
and yeah, I think he was trying to say something about religion
IIRC most of his books follow the "religion is the opiate of the masses" philosophy

Methuselas Children has a lot of Lazarus in it
there is also a book of nothing but his sayings
(slightly suitable for framing)

Posted: 7/3/2005 3:17:50 AM EDT

[#9]

We Grok It

Cat Who Walks Through Walls and Door Into Summer also

As mentioned above, a good one

Posted: 7/3/2005 6:37:34 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Brasspile,
"Any fresh suggestions to broaden my mind?"

- For something that won't do anything to broaden your mind, but is VERY entertaining, try Peter Hamilton's "Naked God" series. It's nearly three thousand pages long, but it's space opera at it's best. This one also features "souls", but in a non-religous/Christian sense, for a little bit of an intellectual teaser. Lots of sex, but it's with sex objects of the legal, female, OF AGE AND NOT a relative category!
On the more intellectual, but still very readable end, I recently enjoyed Necronomicon by Neal Stephenson, and Pattern Recognition by William Gipson.
Both of these were chock full of those "AHA" moments where you have to sit back for a second and digest what you've just read.

Oh and yes, he wasn't just trying.. he did ... draw a parallel to Jesus.

Ah yes....the "Neutronium Alchemest."

Excellent read...long..but diff to put down.

Posted: 7/4/2005 10:25:30 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
His point in the other books is that if you can avoid the genetic issues that arise from inbreeding (incest) then there is a lot to be said for the concept, line breeding is commonly used to preserve favorable traits in domesticated species, and it is a valid way to strengthen our own once the genetic issues are identified and eliminated, social mores notwithstanding. A lot of diseases and other weaknesses could be bred out of the population if a proper breeding program was instituted

A shade off topic, but I'd bet money that the social mores grew out of the desire to avoid the genetic difficulties.
It isn't very often that humanity as a whole puts limits on f-cking.
If they could, there'd be a lot fewer social problems.

Posted: 7/4/2005 10:35:35 PM EDT

[#12]

Not a hijack, but if you like Heinlein, you will love Spider Robinson.

Posted: 7/5/2005 1:13:52 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Job: A Comedy of Justice" is one of my favorites, but I've read all of his books. RAH is definitely one of my favorite authors.

not at www.audible.com

Browse through their selections and let me know some good ones. Doesn't have to be RAH

I have:
Starship Troopers
Stranger in a Strange Land
Friday
Have Spacesuit, Will Travel

and

Atlas Shrugged

Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (the whole series in paper form, also).

Any fresh suggestions to broaden my mind?

Anything by James Mitchner (spelling)

Hawaii would be a good start then Texas. Great story teller

Posted: 7/5/2005 1:30:07 AM EDT

[#14]

[

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Job: A Comedy of Justice" is one of my favorites, but I've read all of his books. RAH is definitely one of my favorite authors.

not at www.audible.com

Browse through their selections and let me know some good ones. Doesn't have to be RAH

I have:
Starship Troopers
Stranger in a Strange Land
Friday
Have Spacesuit, Will Travel

and

Atlas Shrugged

Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (the whole series in paper form, also).

Any fresh suggestions to broaden my mind?

If you liked Heinlein, then give Joe Haldeman a try. The Forever Wars is pretty good.

If you like Adams, give his Dirk Gently books a shot. Just as good and even more esoteric.
Also give Terry Pratchett's books a shot.

Posted: 7/5/2005 1:49:19 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
If you like Adams, give his Dirk Gently books a shot. Just as good and even more esoteric.

Long Dark Tea Time Of The Soul and
Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."

forgot a Heinlein, Waldo & Magic, Inc.

a couple by Robert Asprin
The Bug Wars
The Cold Cash War

you might also try some Steven Brust, try to get them in order
some of the "The Stainless Steel Rat" are good

and of course THE Classic "Armor" by John Steakley

Posted: 7/5/2005 11:00:09 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Not a hijack, but if you like Heinlein, you will love Spider Robinson.

Robinson was friends with Heinlein. Back in the days when Robinson was just starting out, and was a starving hippie up in Canada, he somehow got in contact with Heinlein, and Heinlein, unasked, sent him financial assistance. Robinson wrote a very nice article lauding Heinlein's generosity and kindness, noting that their politics are very different and that he was surprised Heinlein would do that for the likes of him.

Although I enjoyed Robinson's early "Callahan's Bar" stories, the later ones (especially Callahan's Key have gotten ridiculous; and most of his novels seem to peter out about 2/3 of the way through. I'd strongly recommend his first three Callahan's short-story collections. though.

Quoted:
Also give Terry Pratchett's books a shot.

Nah, Pratchett sux.

Two that you won't find much mention of: Robert Frezza wrote two excellent military-SF novels, A Small Colonial War and Fire in a Faraway Place. Frezza's other novels (including the third in that series) are decent but not great. And Grant Callin wrote an excellent first-contact novel, Saturnalia; you'll probably have to search used book sites to dig it up, since it probably went out of print twenty years ago.

Posted: 7/5/2005 11:07:04 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Which of his works have incest in them? (not that I am looking for it, just curious, as I would rather avoid those...)

TIA

Most of them.

One of the books goes into some detail about arranging an orgy amongst 2 protagonists, a daughter, and friends of the family. Culminated in RAH's fictional universe declaring it a holiday.

It was part of the Lazarus Long series....think it was Time Enough for Love, but may have been another.

Lazarus goes back in time and has sex with his mom in that one.

Near the end he has sex with 14 yr old twin clones (except female) of himself....

by that time they are biologiclly 14 but like 40yrs old...due to there howard treatments.

Posted: 7/5/2005 11:21:42 AM EDT

[#18]

re: Spider Robinson

After reading one of his short stories in a JE Pournelle collection, I bought Mindkiller, which I thought was pretty good. Then I bought a bunch of his other stuff, and found it disapointing.

Posted: 7/5/2005 11:50:58 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Also give Terry Pratchett's books a shot.

Nah, Pratchett sux.

snicker

Two that you won't find much mention of: Robert Frezza wrote two excellent military-SF novels, A Small Colonial War and Fire in a Faraway Place. Frezza's other novels (including the third in that series) are decent but not great. And Grant Callin wrote an excellent first-contact novel, Saturnalia; you'll probably have to search used book sites to dig it up, since it probably went out of print twenty years ago.

Never heard of Robert Frezza. Gonna have to look that up.

Cryptonomicon, as somebody mentioned. EXCELLENT book. I love the comment on the 2nd Amendment when the FBI is doing the computer raid.

Posted: 7/5/2005 9:10:17 PM EDT

[#20]

For military SciFi, John Ringo's "March to the Sea", and the others in that series were some of my favorites.

Posted: 7/5/2005 9:11:55 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
re: Spider Robinson

After reading one of his short stories in a JE Pournelle collection, I bought Mindkiller, which I thought was pretty good. Then I bought a bunch of his other stuff, and found it disapointing.

Did you read "Lady Slings the Booze?" My wife started with that one and read all of his books. I enjoyed it too.

Posted: 7/5/2005 9:21:03 PM EDT

[#22]

+1 for Troopers as a 1st RAH book

MIAHM for 2nd.

Posted: 7/5/2005 11:56:29 PM EDT

[#23]

Oh yeah!

BRASS!

Read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, the whole series that follows is pretty damn good tho my favorite is Ender's Shadow.

Posted: 7/6/2005 12:28:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Oh yeah!

BRASS!

Read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, the whole series that follows is pretty damn good tho my favorite is Ender's Shadow.

Damn you! You took mine!

Do the Ender series.

RAH: Tunnel in the Sky is an excellent book about survivalism and fledgling societies. I haven't seen Number of the Beast mentioned, but I highly enjoy it (the end's a little meh, but the book's worth it). All his juvenile books are great, and sex-free.

Neil Gaiman writes some good yarns. Also, check out Chuck Palahniuk's books. Fight Club is very similar to the movie. I just re-read Survivor and remembered why I liked it. The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson is slow terror.

If you really want to mess with your mind, get House of Leave by Mark Z. Danielewski, but you have to read that one, not listen to it.

Posted: 7/6/2005 1:17:10 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
You took mine!

I know, I'm good at that.

Posted: 7/6/2005 8:21:14 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Oh yeah!

BRASS!

Read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, the whole series that follows is pretty damn good tho my favorite is Ender's Shadow.

I gotta stick with what is on www.audible.com for these purposes (while doing menial labor, "read" a book...)

Posted: 7/6/2005 9:10:55 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

and of course THE Classic "Armor" by John Steakley

I, uh, didn't much care for Armor.

It was okay, but not great, imo.

Posted: 7/6/2005 11:36:03 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I gotta stick with what is on www.audible.com for these purposes (while doing menial labor, "read" a book...)

Looks like they have all the Ender series. Get it, you'll like it.

Posted: 7/6/2005 1:03:41 PM EDT

[#29]

Science fiction Dram style:

1. Christopher Rowley : Anything by Rowley is the absolute heat.
Starhammer
The Vang series
Fenrille series: The Founder, The Black Ship, The War for Eternity, To a Highland Nation
Bazil Broketail series
etc etc

Cannot reccommend highly enough.

2. Brian Daley: Sadly this VN vet has passed on, likely due to Agent Orange exposure. But he left us some outstanding works of fiction;
3 book series on Hobart Floyt and Alacrity Fitzhugh
Han Solo series

3. John Ringo and David Weber are producing some good stuff as previously mentioned here

4. Harry Harrison: Absolute master of funny writing for Sci Fi;
Bill the Galactic Hero
Stainless Steel Rat series (older books are the best)

5. Heinlein: Only his old stuff as he got waaaaaaaaay too fetishy freaky for me
Glory Road
Starship Troopers

6. Joe Haldemans the Forever War

Sadly though, I have not been able to find many newer good authors, cept' Ringo and Weber. Seems that all the good sci fi authors are no longer writing or burned out. How can anyone read enders game? Orson Scott Card is uhhh... not so good IMHO. Oh well, to each his own I suppose.
And what is it with all these female authors pumping out Sci Fi? There is not a dam' female breathing that can write a male character worth a decayed dingleberry. NOT ONE.

Dram out

Posted: 7/6/2005 1:16:51 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
How can anyone read enders game? Orson Scott Card is uhhh... not so good IMHO. Oh well, to each his own I suppose.

EG was an excellent short story. He then expanded it into a novella. Then he turned it into a novel. Then he wrote a series as a follow-on.

IMHO it got worse each time. The short story was a good thought-experiment raising questions of morality in time of war. The series buried that in one giant guilt-trip.

Quoted:
And what is it with all these female authors pumping out Sci Fi? There is not a dam' female breathing that can write a male character worth a decayed dingleberry. NOT ONE.

I highly recommend Mercedes Lackey's series beginning with "Nursemaid to the Queen". Just look for the books with the flaming gay unicorns on the covers.

Posted: 7/6/2005 1:43:08 PM EDT

[#31]

Tried reading Lackey, Bujold, and the rest of the ilk....

Cant do it... just cant do it... tried... just cant stomache it. At all.

Urgh.. mrph...blurgh... bleagh! Yak!

Made me ill.

Dram

Posted: 7/6/2005 5:54:16 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I gotta stick with what is on www.audible.com for these purposes (while doing menial labor, "read" a book...)

Looks like they have all the Ender series. Get it, you'll like it.

Ok, added to cart. Will review and update this thread.

Thanks, Tweak and MissusGee!

Posted: 7/7/2005 12:29:53 AM EDT

[#33]

Posted: 7/7/2005 12:43:29 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:

and of course THE Classic "Armor" by John Steakley

I, uh, didn't much care for Armor.

It was okay, but not great, imo.

YMMV

Posted: 7/7/2005 12:51:53 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Tried reading Lackey, Bujold, and the rest of the ilk....

Cant do it... just cant do it... tried... just cant stomache it. At all.

Urgh.. mrph...blurgh... bleagh! Yak!

Made me ill.

Dram

Sorry, I really was just joking.

Mercedes Lackey

ETA: Suburban Banshee Blog

The collaboration team behind This Rough Magic sounds like some really dumb joke: "An Australian, a Trotskyite labor organizer-turned-editor, and Mercedes Lackey walked into a bar...." Unfortunately, it's a bad joke on us. Editor Eric Flint has his name on at least 25% of Baen's published books nowadays; Mercedes Lackey is the fantasy world's saddest victim of the Brain Eater and recently wrote a book with a magical abortionist heroine ("....she would treat the women who came to her for treatment of their "female complaints"-including inconvenient or unwedded pregnancy...."); and Dave Freer...well, heck, he could be good, but we'll never know. His name only appears on books in conjunction with Eric Flint's.

BTW, the "Nursemaid to the Queen" series is actually called something like "The Chronicles of Valdemar" if anyone needs a good emetic.

Posted: 7/14/2005 9:03:32 AM EDT

[#36]

Ok, My Audible subscription is back, so I get two more books to download this month.

Any more recommendations of things found on www.audible.com ?

(Sci-Fi, or whatever category "Atlas Shrugged" and "1984" etc are in)

Thanks in advance!

Posted: 7/18/2005 3:41:43 PM EDT

[#37]

One more to get for my brain numbing work...

Have gotten the series mentioned by Tweak.

Looking for more of the same genre...

Buehler?? Buehler????

Posted: 7/20/2005 12:48:35 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Looking for more of the same genre...

same genre as Ender?

Posted: 7/20/2005 2:28:21 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Looking for more of the same genre...

same genre as Ender?

I got the Ender series from audible, now looking for:

or whatever category "Atlas Shrugged" and "1984" etc are in

I don't know what "classification" to look for, "Semi-Political sci-fi fiction"?

Posted: 7/20/2005 2:30:58 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I don't know what "classification" to look for, "Semi-Political sci-fi fiction"?

Books like 1984 and Brave New World used to be classified as distopias. Might try that.

Posted: 7/22/2005 5:12:20 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Looking for more of the same genre...

same genre as Ender?

Liked "Ender's Game", but was dissapointed with "Shadow of the Giant".

Posted: 7/23/2005 1:18:54 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
"Shadow of the Giant".

Wild, I didn't know he had released another one.

Posted: 7/24/2005 3:12:38 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Shadow of the Giant".

Wild, I didn't know he had released another one.

Publisher's Summary
Bean, once the smallest student at the Battle School, and Ender Wiggin's right hand, has grown to be a power on Earth. He served the Hegemon as strategist and general in the terrible wars that followed Ender's defeat of the alien empire attacking Earth. Now he wishes for a safe place to build a family, something he has never known, but there is nowhere on Earth that does not harbor his enemies; old enemies from the days in Ender's Jeesh, new enemies from the wars on Earth. To find security, Bean and Petra must once again follow in Ender's footsteps. They must leave Earth behind, in the control of the Hegemon, and look to the stars.

Came out this year. it is a "endcap" to the Ender's series...... It jumped around and didn't quite tie itself together at all.

Posted: 7/24/2005 10:35:53 PM EDT

[#44]

in that case I'll look for a used copy

Posted: 7/25/2005 3:30:26 AM EDT

[#45]

BTW, lest my comment about Pratchett turn anyone off, he really is quite cute most of the time.

My favorites are Small Gods, Hogfather, Jingo, Night Watch, and of course Thief of Time.

Posted: 7/25/2005 5:25:32 AM EDT

[#46]

Ringworld

Posted: 7/26/2005 12:47:58 AM EDT

[#47]

FRONT!!!!

Do I have the right book?

Posted: 7/26/2005 12:52:04 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
FRONT!!!!
quote]

Blonde, brunette or redhead?

Posted: 7/26/2005 3:01:53 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
FRONT!!!!

Do I have the right book?

Yes, Jubil.

Posted: 7/26/2005 3:19:38 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy has some sexual issues he needed to work out.

He had some interesting ideas on when it was ok to pork someone.

Anyone know if he lived like his heroes lived? I.e. fuck anything that moves, including members of your immediate family.

Which of his works have incest in them? (not that I am looking for it, just curious, as I would rather avoid those...)

TIA

And yet my High School library had 7-8 of his books. Starman Jones was a good one. Oddly enough I think "Stranger in a Strange Land" has a minor anti-war theme in it and mentioned the "bush wars in asia". (High School 1960-64)
If you like S/F, get some E.E. "Doc" Smith works also.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Valentine Michael Smith - RAH (Heinlein) Fans Be Heard! (Page 2 of 3)

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