[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WARNING! Federal XM193PD (Page 1 of 2)
Lets build a machine that'll hold em steady and feed them fresh mags full of ammo and pull the trigger once a second indefinitely. It'll have a little microphone so it can hear the boom and know that the round was fired. If a round from either gun fails to go off or jams, the machine stops so a range officer can clear the gun and start it back up. Let it run for days, weeks, however long it takes. I'll put my used bone-stock Glock 17 up against any other stock factory configuration 9mm duty pistol on earth, and I gaurantee the other one will either completely stop functioning or kb before mine does, and will have a statistically significantly larger number of failures to feed/fire/eject. |
it's called a joke. i think your sense of humor Kb'd |
3 entries found for joke. joke ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jk) n. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line. A mischievous trick; a prank. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation. Informal. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office. v. joked, jok·ing, jokes v. intr. To tell or play jokes; jest. To speak in fun; be facetious. v. tr. To make fun of; tease. |
Nope. Squib. You know I just shot some of that stuff a few weeks ago and it seemed like I had quite a few light recoils. I'd say a good 20 out of 200rds. Rounds were going downrange though and I attributed it to the Magpul93A stock I put on it. At least I wondered if that was the cause. It has bothered me since and I haven't shot anymore of it but I have alot of loaded mags, some with XM193PD and I doubt I'll be able to pick the correct ones out. We're talking a couple of thousand rounds here. Really pisses me off that Federal would do this.  I generally have avoided their ammo in the past for various reasons but the XM193 seemed to sweet to pass up. |
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I have 1000 rounds of the stuff set back, it ooks good, and I will shoot some of it this week. When I inspected the rounds I loaded into mags, I did not find any with problems. As a side note, since this is manufactured ammo, shoudnt Federal make good on it and replace the firearm? |
If it had been a squib, the lugs would be sheared and the extension would be split... I observe from the pic above that they are not although the extractor was blown to Kansas. Thus, the gun was not in battery when it fired. |
Actually I don't believe it is actually manufactured by Federal as loaded ammo. It is mixed year Federal head stamp, no lot numbers and comes in a generic box that does not state who manufactured it. In another post someone stated that it was made from pulled down (PD) QC rejected ammo components. This makes the most sense to me as I don't believe in this day of product liability litigation that a manufacturer like Federal would sell QC rejected ammo or ammo without lot numbers etc. |
Good point. Makes sense. |
| I bought some XM193 from Sportsman Guide and it turned out to be the bulk pack PD stuff. I loaded it all on stripper clips and visually inspected each round as I put them on the strippers. There were cases with split necks, cases with crap lodged between the bullet and the mouth of the case that pushed the case mouth out so that there is no way they could chamber, and of course a lot of dented cases. I've fired about 1500rds of the stuff that passed visual inspection and it has been fine. |
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I dont know a whole lot, but this does seem to be an out of battery firing, not an overpressure due to obstructed bore. Just by the type of damage it seems unlikely that it was too high of a pressure then the gun would take. If I read it right, the bolt and carrier spread out, not blew back. JMO |
It's Lake City and is labeled for "training use only". Right there that tells me that there is a potential for issues right there. Training and not duty ammo. In other words you're paying WAY too much for it. |
This is complete bullshit. Using an acronym for a euphamism (PD for pull down - wow what a concept) to describe fucked up ammo is unacceptable. I just checked my stack of ammo to make sure I don't have any. This really is a bad business practice. 
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I'll put a Sig against your Glock  |
The add listed 20 round boxes (real XM193) and, as is often seen, had discounted prices for 500 or 1000 cases. Fine print said that bulk orders were loose packed. No mention of the term "PD". Live and learn. |
Mixed lot #'s, Case nicks, tarnished brass or finger prints on brass would be labeled rejects at Federal When The Company I work for was owned by Federal Cartridge, way before ATK bought Federal we could pick this stuff up in the Company store dirt cheap. I have shot 1,000's of rounds of seconds and I have never had a single problem |
I have shot about 2000 rounds of XM193PD, and I have not rejected a single round, I have not seen a single cracked case or setback bullet, and every single round has fired properly. Looking back at these threads about how badly XM193PD sucks - I am amazed at how lucky I am - and a little worried about the 4000 rounds of it I still have left. 
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Verification confirmed. PD = Pull Down. I have used pull down bullets in my reloading but then again my QC has a personal reward. And since the Federal American Eagle case blowout, I have had NO KB's. One in 25k+ rounds of loaded ammo is still not acceptable but I can justify it because I measured the ruptured case and determined it was indeed a thin head. And finding other thin heads in the remaining brass condemed the entire lot. |
If you want to get rid of it, I'll IM you my address  Edited to add: I'll pay for the shipping 
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 I am ITCHING to go through all 4000 rounds however, just to FIND one of the setback or cracked rounds that everyone keeps talking about! |
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NOt that I really needed any more ammo last year, but I picked up 2,000 rounds of the XM855PD and ran them through my ArmaLite, and Colt. I never had a problem with it. As far as it being "pull downs" do you have any proof of this? My Neighbor who works at Federal says that Federal has no "Official " word on this ammo Because it is mfg @ Lake City. All Federal Cartridge does is package and distribute it |
www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html ATK runs the LC AAP. ATK owns Federal. Federal does not directly run the LC AAP. The XM ammo is made from pulldown components. The PD is made from PD powder. Sometimes the PD cases have the primers from original loading IF the reason the lot was pulled was not due to priming. These can be noted by the primer sealant. |
Are you saying that Jeff @ GI Brass is selling and distributing this ammo? The only ammo that I know of that Jeff sells is M2 Ball for the Garand |
As I understand it, PD is sold "loose." Real XM193 is sold in sealed 20 round boxes. |
NO! But PD in surplus/demill ammo circles is a well-known acroynym for Pull Down. Comparing the propellents in PD and the regular XM193 shows the PD is actual WC-844 while the XM-193 is a commercial propellent that I do not have a comparison to. It looks different than WC-846 too which is NOT surprising since 844 was originally 846 that was right outside of the specification limits for 846. The evidence is overwhelming. PD uses pull down powder. XM193 uses salvaged components. Some of the PD ammo uses arsenal-primed cases which is why some has priming sealant. Such cases are not cleaned of the bullet sealant either and may have traces. But if the XM has neither, it is made from deprimed cases. And if it isn't PD, it has a propellent other than WC-844. Could have 846. |
From the 55 grain bullets, yes. I can CLEARLY see where sealant has been forced deeper into the case and this can only happen with the M855 or M856 projectiles. The only way a pretzel stick could find its way into the powder supply is in pulldown salvage. Propellent used in SCAMP machinery is never subjected to such contamination. All M193 and M855 from LC AAP is produced on SCAMP machinery. Not a single human hand touches it until it is boxed or belted. |
I think that the pretzel thread was determined to be Bullshit If anything, XM193 is contract overruns........Not pulldowns |
Show me the contracts. There aren't too many law enforcement agencies that contract for ammo through LC AAP. All of the "contracts" for military ammunition are for ammo other than M193. It is obsolete and there is enough in the supply system far more than the demand from the very few requests. |
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My sense of humor has been Kb'd since birth (high-functioning autism), but your smileys made the joke obvious. The reason I bothered with a non-humorous reply is because there's a large number of idiots out there who seriously believe that glocks are unreliable peices of trash based on soundbites about the alleged kB! problems, and even your jokes further this notion. The reality of the glock kB! situation is: 1) There's going to be a lot more reports, because there just more glocks out there, it's a popular gun. If it fails at the same rate as every other gun, the reports of failure would stand out as a large number. 2) The statistically significant chunk of kB! reports were all on .40 cal glocks, not the other calibers. 3) It is quite likely that operator error contributed to these reports, including the use of bad reloads, and the use of unjacketed lead ammo in the glock barrel without cleaning out the deposits left behind. Don't shoot bare lead in a glock unless you're prepared to deal with it. The numbers are much lower when you're only talking about known-good factory FMJ/JHP rounds. |
| Being that I've now seen 4 reports of PD ammo being involved in a KB, you could not pay me enough to feed it to my rifle. Even the worst crap ammo has thousands of rounds that are fired that don't blow peoples rifles to bits but the 5% that do sure would make a different ammo choice if you asked them again. It ain't worth it to get nasty ammo for the same price as quality stuff. |
You suck at the internet! 
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Read my reply a few posts up. Aside from that, I've been using the Internet since before this stupid Web thing existed over the top of it, so don't even start with me down that road. |
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Here's my simple contribution to this topic (with PICS). www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=239220 I sorted through 1000 of the 4000 XM193PD rounds I recently bought, and found 2 unacceptable rounds, and 4 iffy ones. Might they all have worked? Sure. Would I rather someone else found out with their AR and their face? Absolutely! |
How's this for reality?
www.atf.gov/press/speech/fy00/040700ggdsymposium.htm You wanna get all serious when someone is kidding around? Okay, how serious is this? That, and your initial "Glock is better than any other pistol" remark. You wanna know why there are jokes made about this? It's because there will always be someone who brings that up. I don't knock the quality of a Glock, it just ain't better than everything else as some seem to believe. It is a good pistol that does the job. I do knock their involvement with the ATF. |
The QC defects that you posted are typical of both the XM193PD and XM855PD that I've seen. Small dents in the cases aren't dangerous but split necks/cases and improperly seated bullets can create excessively high pressures and KB any firearm. |